British woman gets death sentence

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adamsaccount:

No. If i was german, swedish, or from azerbaijan i would feel exactly the same way, i just happened to hear about this because im british and its in the news here. She could be from the fucking moon for all i care and i would oppose this, just the fact that shes from the country i live in makes me think my government is obliged to try and do something about it.

Full out war isnt a good option ill admit that but in my mind that is the scale of wrong this is on.

I may be a bit unhinged and its probably a good thing that im not in charge but these are my thoughts on this nonetheless

And I don't think that she should be killed either, years in prison would be enough. But She fucked up in a country that is fucked over by drugs, she made her choice to go in there with those drugs and she would have been warned by them as she came in, they are pretty open about the whole thing and as such I don't have a whole lot of sympathy.

Reasonable responses to this would have been,
-Gee, I hope that the government appeals for a lessened sentence on her part
-Gosh, I hope that she gets off on appeal
-Blimey, I hope that the president gives her clemency (as the Indonesian executive is known to do)

What you did instead of any of those was suggest
-That thousands of asian lives would be worth less than one British woman's
-Suggest that they are barbarians
-Suggest that they only understand violence
-Suggest that the British should 'punish' them for consistent application of their laws in their country.
-Suggest that war, including bombing judiciary premises is an acceptable result because you disagree with their application of their law.

the clockmaker:

adamsaccount:

No. If i was german, swedish, or from azerbaijan i would feel exactly the same way, i just happened to hear about this because im british and its in the news here. She could be from the fucking moon for all i care and i would oppose this, just the fact that shes from the country i live in makes me think my government is obliged to try and do something about it.

Full out war isnt a good option ill admit that but in my mind that is the scale of wrong this is on.

I may be a bit unhinged and its probably a good thing that im not in charge but these are my thoughts on this nonetheless

And I don't think that she should be killed either, years in prison would be enough. But She fucked up in a country that is fucked over by drugs, she made her choice to go in there with those drugs and she would have been warned by them as she came in, they are pretty open about the whole thing and as such I don't have a whole lot of sympathy.

Reasonable responses to this would have been,
-Gee, I hope that the government appeals for a lessened sentence on her part
-Gosh, I hope that she gets off on appeal
-Blimey, I hope that the president gives her clemency (as the Indonesian executive is known to do)

What you did instead of any of those was suggest
-That thousands of asian lives would be worth less than one British woman's
-Suggest that they are barbarians
-Suggest that they only understand violence
-Suggest that the British should 'punish' them for consistent application of their laws in their country.
-Suggest that war, including bombing judiciary premises is an acceptable result because you disagree with their application of their law.

Well im sorry for not reacting the way youd like me to when some old fucker of a judge wants to kill someone who blatantly doesnt deserve it.

I dont think thousands of asian lives should be lost because of this, just that if this goes ahead i would like to see the people responsible for this injustice pay

Also noteworthy; the prosecution were pushing 15 year sentence, everyone is stunned by this

the clockmaker:

adamsaccount:

No. If i was german, swedish, or from azerbaijan i would feel exactly the same way, i just happened to hear about this because im british and its in the news here. She could be from the fucking moon for all i care and i would oppose this, just the fact that shes from the country i live in makes me think my government is obliged to try and do something about it.

Full out war isnt a good option ill admit that but in my mind that is the scale of wrong this is on.

I may be a bit unhinged and its probably a good thing that im not in charge but these are my thoughts on this nonetheless

And I don't think that she should be killed either, years in prison would be enough. But She fucked up in a country that is fucked over by drugs, she made her choice to go in there with those drugs and she would have been warned by them as she came in, they are pretty open about the whole thing and as such I don't have a whole lot of sympathy.

Reasonable responses to this would have been,
-Gee, I hope that the government appeals for a lessened sentence on her part
-Gosh, I hope that she gets off on appeal
-Blimey, I hope that the president gives her clemency (as the Indonesian executive is known to do)

What you did instead of any of those was suggest
-That thousands of asian lives would be worth less than one British woman's
-Suggest that they are barbarians
-Suggest that they only understand violence
-Suggest that the British should 'punish' them for consistent application of their laws in their country.
-Suggest that war, including bombing judiciary premises is an acceptable result because you disagree with their application of their law.

1. It's not that lives are worth less, it's that if you're going to war, people are going to die. It's not the woman, it's the statement that they're making.

2. Well...they are barbarians. No offense, it's just the facts. If you're going to kill someone who is smuggling in drugs, you are being barbaric. This isn't some first world country. I don't understand how hard this is to grasp.

3. If their response to this crime is something violent, and that's a common thing, then yeah, I can see that. People who constantly go to violence when they don't need to tend not to understand other things.

4. What if they killed her for being a lesbian? Or a Jew? Or eating meat? Yes, some laws are worth condemning. A law doesn't become okay because you're not the one who made it.

5. Okay, that is messed up.

adamsaccount:

Quaxar:

adamsaccount:

The difference there is that i assume they were executed for crimes that actually "deserve" (not that i buy it but i can see why some would) like murder and violence etc. When the indonesian judiciary decided to murder someone like this
for a trivial crime then what the hell should britain do? sit back and watch? or actually try and do something to help.

And who are you to judge what is worth a death sentence and what should be legal? Why do you assume your standards of right and wrong apply to a country where over half a million underaged Indonesians from 10-20 years are addicted to narcotics such as heroin?
What should Britain do? Not what you want it to I sure hope. There's a huge difference between diplomatic negotiations and a war even more ridiculous than anything the US could ever conceive.

Cocaine is a very recreational drug and if you dont believe me try some

Um... no.
Contrary to a lot of people I actually know the biochemistry and read studies. Gonna need more to convince me.

Then this draconian policy obviously isn't working.

And you ask who am I to judge whats right and wrong? Well thats a right we all have i always assumed. I can look at an action and decide if its right or wrong, just try and stop me.

My view is a world view and isnt limited to my country and this is it;
The death penalty should not exist because a government that shows that kind of violence will probably just breed more violence.

No I didn't say that, I said who are you to decide that a country's laws are wrong based on your ideas, even though you probably have no idea about its politics, healthcare or history.
Not working? It's a deterrant for a lot of people, I don't think anyone's assuming that any sort of penalty will stop all crime. Harder penalty means bigger profit margin for organized drug smuggling but takes a lot of amateur smugglers not willing to risk it out of the market.
Am I for a death penalty? Damn no, but on the other hand if a country has it and you willingly break that law I won't have pity for that stupidity.

Bashfluff:

Quaxar:

Cocaine is a very recreational drug and if you dont believe me try some

Um... no.
Contrary to a lot of people I actually know the biochemistry and read studies. Gonna need more to convince me.

Define "recreational drug" for me.

There are plenty of people dying of obesity in the US. Gets get fat and addicted because of their parents. Plenty of gamblers wasting their lives and their money because they are addicted. Plenty of people who drink and are addicted. Who smoke.

I believe in a country where you can do whatever you want, to yourself, because if you don't believe I have the right to potentially fuck myself over, you don't believe in any freedom at all.

I should probably clarify that "um... no" was supposed to be answering to the "try some" part. I don't dispute that it's classified as a recreational drug, but I also don't claim that it is not highly addictive and harmful.
Alcohol and tobacco are recreational drugs as well, food and gambling are nothing to do with drugs as they don't fit the definition at all.

I don't believe in freedom because I object to free availability of dangerous chemicals? I can live with that.

adamsaccount:
Ill agree that smuggling 5 kilos of cocaine into a conservative country probably isnt a smart move, but the way I see it people are going to get it and use it somehow anyway, so the government might as well regulate it to keep as many people safe as possible. You would also avoid people being coerced into becoming drug mules like this

In my opinion executing someone for something like this should lead to UN action. Id love to see the British government demand that either she is released or we bomb this shit out of them. Its not going to happen but to me that seems like the only sensible reaction to something like this. If the governments not going to protect its people from shit like this then whats the point to it.

I accept that you have to take responsibility for your actions but everyone fucks up and theres no need to kill them for it. If she had shot up a nursery school or something like that maybe id feel differently but all she was doing was moving around a substance that makes you high.

Yes, let us answer a single execution or disagreeable law with a war. Because that's so damned reasonable. Normally when you start going off on tangents about how people should have a right to self destruction you don't also argue that we should go ahead and help them along too, but apparently you're more consistent than all those softies.

Listen, I don't agree with the death penalty, but for that very reason I can also say that KILLING PEOPLE IS NOT THE FUCKING ANSWER. You do not start wars over occasional enforcements of the death penalty for felonies. Constant political and prejudicially motivated executions sure, but not this kind of shit. The cost will absolutely certainly outweigh the gain. A few hundred felons won't die in exchange for tens of thousands of dead innocents. What you are proposing is beyond absurd.

Revnak:

adamsaccount:
Ill agree that smuggling 5 kilos of cocaine into a conservative country probably isnt a smart move, but the way I see it people are going to get it and use it somehow anyway, so the government might as well regulate it to keep as many people safe as possible. You would also avoid people being coerced into becoming drug mules like this

In my opinion executing someone for something like this should lead to UN action. Id love to see the British government demand that either she is released or we bomb this shit out of them. Its not going to happen but to me that seems like the only sensible reaction to something like this. If the governments not going to protect its people from shit like this then whats the point to it.

I accept that you have to take responsibility for your actions but everyone fucks up and theres no need to kill them for it. If she had shot up a nursery school or something like that maybe id feel differently but all she was doing was moving around a substance that makes you high.

Yes, let us answer a single execution or disagreeable law with a war. Because that's so damned reasonable. Normally when you start going off on tangents about how people should have a right to self destruction you don't also argue that we should go ahead and help them along too, but apparently you're more consistent than all those softies.

Listen, I don't agree with the death penalty, but for that very reason I can also say that KILLING PEOPLE IS NOT THE FUCKING ANSWER. You do not start wars over occasional enforcements of the death penalty for felonies. Constant political and prejudicially motivated executions sure, but not this kind of shit. The cost will absolutely certainly outweigh the gain. A few hundred felons won't die in exchange for tens of thousands of dead innocents. What you are proposing is beyond absurd.

Allright then. Starting a war over this WOULD indeed be a bad idea, I was wrong to say otherwise but such is my weight of feeling on the matter. This thing has me riled up alot, i cant stand injustice generally and i dont really know any other way of securing her safety if the appeals court fails. However, im not the one making plans to kill. Who the fuck am I? im nobody, im not some old duffer of a judge who for reasons beyond my comprehension has the power of life and death over people.

I dont know, if id said we should get a hitman to take that judge out would that make you feel better? or does that offend youre sensibilities as well?

@quaxar Im not a legislator in that country but that doesnt disqualify me from passing judgements on the punishments given by that country. If it did then only the people currently making the laws would be allowed to have an opinion. Im allowed an opinion however misguided you might think it is

DaKiller:
The most to be hoped for is that her government can get her back to face a fair trial in her own country.

Why? She broke an Indonesian law in Indonesia, why should her trial be in the UK? If they even suggested doing that it would be an open invitation to the world that it's fair game to ask for their nationals back whenever they break a law on UK soil for a "fair" trial.

If you break a law in a country, you should face justice in that country, unless the law is unjust (which anti-drug laws aren't, especially not for something as serious as cocaine).

Indonesia is not some third-world hellhole, it does have a decent justice system. I mean in the past decade over ten Australians (my country of origin) were arrested and convicted over drug trafficing, and only three of them got the Death Sentance (who were considered the leaders of the group of nine that were arrested). One of them was sentanced to 20 years, but she's getting closer and closer to an early realise and ten years haven't even passed yet.

Shaoken:

DaKiller:
The most to be hoped for is that her government can get her back to face a fair trial in her own country.

Why? She broke an Indonesian law in Indonesia, why should her trial be in the UK? If they even suggested doing that it would be an open invitation to the world that it's fair game to ask for their nationals back whenever they break a law on UK soil for a "fair" trial.

If you break a law in a country, you should face justice in that country, unless the law is unjust (which anti-drug laws aren't, especially not for something as serious as cocaine).

Indonesia is not some third-world hellhole, it does have a decent justice system. I mean in the past decade over ten Australians (my country of origin) were arrested and convicted over drug trafficing, and only three of them got the Death Sentance (who were considered the leaders of the group of nine that were arrested). One of them was sentanced to 20 years, but she's getting closer and closer to an early realise and ten years haven't even passed yet.

What a lot of people dont seem to realise is that this was unprecedented, a judge gave a far harsher sentence then then prosecution wanted. Thats just not right

Bashfluff:

1. It's not that lives are worth less, it's that if you're going to war,

We fucking aren't though. War can be justified, and in many cases the known negative effects are outweighed by the possible good that can be achieved, in this case, they are not. The stated cassus belli and desired outcome of the war are to 'teach them for touching our woman' there are no positive outcomes from there and the negative outcome is that thousands of Indonesian people will die, without even getting into the lethal blowback on British personel. Therefore, if you are advocating force of arms in this situation, it is because you value those thousands of Indonesian people less than one British criminal.

people are going to die.

So the death of one British citizen is barbarism, but the death of thousands of Indonesians are collateral

It's not the woman, it's the statement that they're making.

What, that they, based soley on the fear of death, should not enforce their laws on their soil. Listen, mate, I have stated that I am not in favor of the death penalty in this case, but what you and Adam are advocating is nothing short of fucking lunacy.

2. Well...they are barbarians. No offense, it's just the facts.

Remember that you are now labeling 242 million people as barbarians here, because they are the people who are going to to be fucked over by this whole 'send a message' stupidity

If you're going to kill someone who is smuggling in drugs, you are being barbaric.

You need to understand that they see drug smuggling as doing direct harm to their people, they see the crime of the poor as being something that economic conditions have imposed upon them and their turning to drugs as not so much their fault as the bastards that peddled them a way out. They are very serious about outside harm coming to their people. Now you may disagree, and I may disagree, but saying 'stop that or we will bomb you' or just labeling them as barbarians reenforces the already strong perception that we don't give a fuck about what is happening to their people and that we only care about white people. You want them to change, you need to stop fucking acting like this is the eighteenth century.

This isn't some first world country.

because the wealth of the nation has anyfuckingthing to do with the civility of it.

3. If their response to this crime is something violent, and that's a common thing, then yeah, I can see that. People who constantly go to violence when they don't need to tend not to understand other things.

Jesus wept! I take it that you are accepting the notion that 'they only understand violence' what the everloving fuck?! Maybe, just as you seem to fucking see force as an acceptable response to them, they see it as one to this crime. Maybe, if you actually fucking knew anything about the country, you would not be so, well jesus, is there anything to call this but racism, I mean, 'Indonesian's don't understand anything other than violence'?

Maybe read up a bit on the country, I'll not deny that I hate the Indonesian government for Papua and Timor, but you and Adam feel happy to extend that to every Hartono, Susilo and Jon between Banda Aceh and Timor Barat.

4. What if they killed her for being a lesbian? Or a Jew? Or eating meat? Yes, some laws are worth condemning. A law doesn't become okay because you're not the one who made it.

4.

Again, I have stated several times that I do not agree with the death penalty here, but lets look at the things that you compared with drug dealing, innocent lifestyle choices? being the wrong religion? (funny thing, your list also shows one key lack of knowledge about the country, and something that I hate the government for) These things are harmless personal choices, and do not have the negative effect on the community that drug dealing does.

Just to be clear, I am not saying that they should kill her, I am saying that thinking it would be worth the deaths of thousands of Indonesians to send a message regarding it would be fucking insane and teh casual racism directed towards Indonesians here is staggering. I also have no sympathy for someone who travels halfway across the planet to break a well known strictly enforced law.

adamsaccount:

Well I'm sorry for not reacting the way you'd like me to when some old fucker of a judge wants to kill someone who blatantly doesn't deserve it.

and it is fine to be angry, that is okay, but what you suggested went above and beyond fine into chest thumping 'don't touch our women'

I don't think thousands of Asian lives should be lost because of this,

Then don't suggest a bombing Campaign in the heart of Jakarta and Denpasar, which would kill many many civilians to start with and start a war that would kill thousands. Also, don't imply that they only understand violence, that is flat out racism.

just that if this goes ahead i would like to see the people responsible for this injustice pay

again, that is fine, just don't give the world's most populous muslim nation a justified cassus beli in doing so. We all want to see reform in Indonesia, or, should I say, some of us want reform in Indonesia and some of us are just becoming aware that Indonesia is a thing, but threats of violence are not the way to do it.

Also noteworthy; the prosecution were pushing 15 year sentence, everyone is stunned by this

Chances are this is some backwards old judge trying to be the big swinging dick again. Chances are Jakarta (which hasn't executed anyone since the bali bombers and seriously, those disgusting fucks had it coming) will reduce the sentence to life or twenty-ish years if she shows remorse for her crimes. Like they always do.

Bashfluff:

the clockmaker:

adamsaccount:

No. If i was german, swedish, or from azerbaijan i would feel exactly the same way, i just happened to hear about this because im british and its in the news here. She could be from the fucking moon for all i care and i would oppose this, just the fact that shes from the country i live in makes me think my government is obliged to try and do something about it.

Full out war isnt a good option ill admit that but in my mind that is the scale of wrong this is on.

I may be a bit unhinged and its probably a good thing that im not in charge but these are my thoughts on this nonetheless

And I don't think that she should be killed either, years in prison would be enough. But She fucked up in a country that is fucked over by drugs, she made her choice to go in there with those drugs and she would have been warned by them as she came in, they are pretty open about the whole thing and as such I don't have a whole lot of sympathy.

Reasonable responses to this would have been,
-Gee, I hope that the government appeals for a lessened sentence on her part
-Gosh, I hope that she gets off on appeal
-Blimey, I hope that the president gives her clemency (as the Indonesian executive is known to do)

What you did instead of any of those was suggest
-That thousands of asian lives would be worth less than one British woman's
-Suggest that they are barbarians
-Suggest that they only understand violence
-Suggest that the British should 'punish' them for consistent application of their laws in their country.
-Suggest that war, including bombing judiciary premises is an acceptable result because you disagree with their application of their law.

1. It's not that lives are worth less, it's that if you're going to war, people are going to die. It's not the woman, it's the statement that they're making.

2. Well...they are barbarians. No offense, it's just the facts. If you're going to kill someone who is smuggling in drugs, you are being barbaric. This isn't some first world country. I don't understand how hard this is to grasp.

3. If their response to this crime is something violent, and that's a common thing, then yeah, I can see that. People who constantly go to violence when they don't need to tend not to understand other things.

4. What if they killed her for being a lesbian? Or a Jew? Or eating meat? Yes, some laws are worth condemning. A law doesn't become okay because you're not the one who made it.

5. Okay, that is messed up.

Since when do lesbians use guns to take pot shots at children? Sometimes in front of their parents?

When do Jews assassinate a diplomat AND her two soldier bodyguards? To send a message?

When do meat eaters murder hundreds of men, women, and children a day and dump them in mass graves or string up their mutilated corpses to send a message to the government?

They don't, but drug cartels do. Its important to learn the fucking difference.

There is a line that certain criminals cross before they become a real issue to the country. Obviously they crossed the line. So now they are being treated like rebels instead of criminals, which would make sense because criminals can ruin the government's ability to provide for its people. These aren't even petty criminals anymore, these are warlords. So its like giving money to Kony.

This isn't about law and "justice" anymore, and no organized criminals don't stop when they are in prison. They are still able to get the messages out and still lead the organization from prison. Unless you use extreme isolation, which is worse and more expensive than than the death penalty it "replaced."

The only statement the UK would make with a war is a racist one. That the "uppity brown boys dun got it wrong" and "Britain needs to set them straight" despite not knowing whats really going on. Bombing the government so brutal warlords are left to take over? Are you mental?

They convict a woman, and you want to destroy the lives of future generations who have no choice in where they are born?

You know, because its totally rational for an ex-imperialist power, with plenty of historical baggage, to destroy a government and leave everyone there at the whim of brutal warlords. Just because they touched a white woman. What could they possibly make people hate you there? /sarcasm

The UK's reputation and alliances would be destroyed, and rightfully so. I hope this mentality isn't mainstream in the UK, or I'd be worried.

adamsaccount:
@quaxar Im not a legislator in that country but that doesnt disqualify me from passing judgements on the punishments given by that country. If it did then only the people currently making the laws would be allowed to have an opinion. Im allowed an opinion however misguided you might think it is

Indeed you can have all the opinions you want. However, basing the judgement on the headline of an article without knowing much about the country and its problems with drug trafficking doesn't exactly make it the most valid one. I'm not saying it's misguided, I'm just saying it's uninformed.

adamsaccount:
What a lot of people dont seem to realise is that this was unprecedented, a judge gave a far harsher sentence then then prosecution wanted. Thats just not right

A judge has the legal right to extend the sentence if in his oppinion the prosecution set it too low...

Additionally, death penalties haven't been carried out since 2008. It's in your own article. Please re-read that.

Five foreigners have been executed since 1998, all for drug crimes, but there have been no executions in the country since 2008.

because everyone know that British people are worth at least 10 regular people.
Somebody wanted to earn lots of money, which by the way helps drug cartels which kill a lot of people.
The fact that in a lot of countries drug smuggling is dealt with death penalty is also well known.

Also, yeah - this part
But the judges said there were no mitigating circumstances and the defendant did not appear to care about the consequences of her actions.
So quite frankly, you go to a country - you respect its law. Dont expect the government to send in cavalry because you decided that you want to smuggle drugs.

Any idea of "punishing them for barbarism" would be met with my laughter, was it not for the fact that UK used this kind of imperialistic BS before.

"Im against death penalty, so lets go to war!"

Argh, this kind of bs angers me....

Also people here need to calm the fuck down and understand that Indonesia does have an appeals system that in the past has reduced drug runner's sentances down, so odds are the next judge will look at the ruling and say it was too harsh before going to the Prosecution's initial suggestion give or take five years.

Well, banning cocaine is reasonable enough. The drug doesn't merely harm the person who choose to ingest it, but carries with it a clear and present danger that the user will assault others while on it, or commit crimes under its influence/to finance the use of it.

Death penalty is generally a bad idea, as it cost too much if implemented with all the necessary legal guarantees/possibilities for appeal (the time of judges/lawyers/expert witnesses/etc. being infinitely more expensive than prison time). Indonesia can hardly be said have all of those in place, which makes it even worse.

If she's actually guilty though, there's nothing unreasonable in punishing her severely.

Well if there was anything id be willing to fight for it would be that

neonit:
because everyone know that British people are worth at least 10 regular people.
Somebody wanted to earn lots of money, which by the way helps drug cartels which kill a lot of people.
The fact that in a lot of countries drug smuggling is dealt with death penalty is also well known.

Also, yeah - this part
But the judges said there were no mitigating circumstances and the defendant did not appear to care about the consequences of her actions.
So quite frankly, you go to a country - you respect its law. Dont expect the government to send in cavalry because you decided that you want to smuggle drugs.

Any idea of "punishing them for barbarism" would be met with my laughter, was it not for the fact that UK used this kind of imperialistic BS before.

"Im against death penalty, so lets go to war!"

Argh, this kind of bs angers me....

Its nothing to do with being british, why do people keep assuming that? Its because shes a fucking human being not because she happened to be born on a crappy island with crappy weather.

Yes she broke the law
She has no prior criminal record
No she doesnt deserve to die
Yes i was wrong about going to war over this and i apologise if its worth anything but this story really pisses me off

adamsaccount:

Revnak:

adamsaccount:
Ill agree that smuggling 5 kilos of cocaine into a conservative country probably isnt a smart move, but the way I see it people are going to get it and use it somehow anyway, so the government might as well regulate it to keep as many people safe as possible. You would also avoid people being coerced into becoming drug mules like this

In my opinion executing someone for something like this should lead to UN action. Id love to see the British government demand that either she is released or we bomb this shit out of them. Its not going to happen but to me that seems like the only sensible reaction to something like this. If the governments not going to protect its people from shit like this then whats the point to it.

I accept that you have to take responsibility for your actions but everyone fucks up and theres no need to kill them for it. If she had shot up a nursery school or something like that maybe id feel differently but all she was doing was moving around a substance that makes you high.

Yes, let us answer a single execution or disagreeable law with a war. Because that's so damned reasonable. Normally when you start going off on tangents about how people should have a right to self destruction you don't also argue that we should go ahead and help them along too, but apparently you're more consistent than all those softies.

Listen, I don't agree with the death penalty, but for that very reason I can also say that KILLING PEOPLE IS NOT THE FUCKING ANSWER. You do not start wars over occasional enforcements of the death penalty for felonies. Constant political and prejudicially motivated executions sure, but not this kind of shit. The cost will absolutely certainly outweigh the gain. A few hundred felons won't die in exchange for tens of thousands of dead innocents. What you are proposing is beyond absurd.

Allright then. Starting a war over this WOULD indeed be a bad idea, I was wrong to say otherwise but such is my weight of feeling on the matter. This thing has me riled up alot, i cant stand injustice generally and i dont really know any other way of securing her safety if the appeals court fails. However, im not the one making plans to kill. Who the fuck am I? im nobody, im not some old duffer of a judge who for reasons beyond my comprehension has the power of life and death over people.

I dont know, if id said we should get a hitman to take that judge out would that make you feel better? or does that offend youre sensibilities as well?

@quaxar Im not a legislator in that country but that doesnt disqualify me from passing judgements on the punishments given by that country. If it did then only the people currently making the laws would be allowed to have an opinion. Im allowed an opinion however misguided you might think it is

Such an action would still... oh who the fuck am I kidding, you're just venting, who gives a fuck. You'll calm down eventually. Whatever. Just know that when you vent here like that, people will take you seriously as 1, we've had worse said here and 2, we like to keep things relatively serious. Next time make it a bit more obvious.

Revnak:

Such an action would still... oh who the fuck am I kidding, you're just venting, who gives a fuck. You'll calm down eventually. Whatever. Just know that when you vent here like that, people will take you seriously as 1, we've had worse said here and 2, we like to keep things relatively serious. Next time make it a bit more obvious.

I can assure you its not intentional on my part. I meant this to be a serious discussion as the subject desrves, im not trying to troll anyone but i cant be expected to say the right thing and be correct all the time, and the sentiment is very real, so please dont dismiss it

This article made me happy. Now if only other nations would learn from this.

Well she shouldn't have tried to smuggle drugs into Asia. It's her own damn fault.

I thought it was well known that Asia doesn't play around when it comes to drugs. That's a life or a death sentence there, chick fucked up and that her own damn fault. Now I have to go tell my brother don't smoke pot in Asia as your ass is done.

And we have another Darwin Award Nominee for 2013, similar to that guy who blew the brains he clearly wasn't using all over the wall trying to prove how safe guns were.

Smuggling drugs into South East Asia while being a foreigner, especially white, should be just marked down to suicidal.

Well. While I disagree with the death penalty in general and extremely harsh punishments for drug offenses, it at least wasn't some harmless dude or dudette with a bag of weed or something for their own use this time, it was an actual huge amount of drugs clearly meant for sale.
Then again, if she's right that she was coerced (In what manner were her children threatened and is there evidence for it? Why wasn't that taken into account in the sentencing?), that should definitely go towards lessening the sentence!
I'm also surprised the judges went beyond the sentence asked for by the prosecutors. How is coercion not a "mitigating factor" to those judges? Assuming it happened, of course?

Regretfully, I can't deny the validity of the verdict. She broke the law and was performing an action likely to lead to much harm to others. I oppose the sentence, because I oppose the death penalty in general, but frankly there doesn't seem to be much to do except hope the sentence gets reduced.

Good. If you're stupid enough to do something like that without researching the laws first, you're an idiot. If you're stupid enough to research it and do it anyway, natural selection is a'callin'.

In general, I oppose the death penalty. However, if you go to a country with the death penalty, and commit a crime which is viewed as very serious in your own country, and which has carried the death penalty in theirs for years, you can't be surprised or upset when you get the death penalty.

Condemn the death penalty if you like, though you'd do well to remember that Indonesia faces different problems to your own country (assuming you're not from there), things that work in your own nation might not apply.

But don't wait until it's a westerner facing the death penalty to get upset, that costs you any semblance of a moral high ground.

Middle-old aged lady, death by firing squad. Bit extreme.

I don't know how guilty she is; how deep into drug trafficking she's landed herself; how true her "innocence" is; or how involved in the underground world she gotten, but death by firing squad is over the top. Particularly over "damaged tourism" image by someone without a previous conviction.

Bvenged:
Particularly over "damaged tourism" image by someone without a previous conviction.

Makes you wonder how much "damage to tourism" trials, sentences and news like this actually do, eh?

ClockworkPenguin:
Regretfully, I can't deny the validity of the verdict. She broke the law and was performing an action likely to lead to much harm to others. I oppose the sentence, because I oppose the death penalty in general, but frankly there doesn't seem to be much to do except hope the sentence gets reduced.

But shes a grandmother, she claims her kids were threatened, wheres the justice in that?

Also gotta love the fuckers who accuse me of racism and then start spouting stereotypes about british people

While I can't really condone the death penalty, she did bring in a country which is infamous for it's treatment of drug mules. She entered the country of her own behest. All people are equal in front of the law, Indonesians and the British included.

Hopefully some humanitarian organization can do something, but I doubt it.

Cocaine is a pretty dangerous substance as well. No sympathy for drug dealers.

EDIT:

thaluikhain:

Don't wait until it's a westerner facing the death penalty to get upset, that costs you any semblance of a moral high ground.

This particularly. I knew that there was the death penalty and we probably all knew this happened. We can't really fake outrage right now, unless we just learned of the severity of the laws.

I also heard that there might be appeals.

Well to be fair you dont hear a lot about executions in bali over here unless its got a connection to britain.

The justification given was that she was "damaging the reputation of bali as a tourist resort"

i shit you not

Bashfluff:

Define "recreational drug" for me.

Quaxar:

Cocaine is a very recreational drug and if you dont believe me try some

Um... no.
Contrary to a lot of people I actually know the biochemistry and read studies. Gonna need more to convince me.

Recreational Drug-any controlled substance used to alter one's mind state or for non-medical purposes, without the permission or supervision of a physician.

So unless your doctor's giving you that cocaine on prescription, it's recreational.

Megalodon:

Bashfluff:

Define "recreational drug" for me.

Quaxar:

Cocaine is a very recreational drug and if you dont believe me try some

Um... no.
Contrary to a lot of people I actually know the biochemistry and read studies. Gonna need more to convince me.

Recreational Drug-any controlled substance used to alter one's mind state or for non-medical purposes, without the permission or supervision of a physician.

So unless your doctor's giving you that cocaine on prescription, it's recreational.

Just a FYI, I now edited my post you're quoting there to make it more clear that I was saying no to his silly suggestion of trying cocain, not the word recreational. Although I don't particularly like to call any dangerously addictive substance recreational...

adamsaccount:
But shes a grandmother, she claims her kids were threatened, wheres the justice in that?

US serial killer David Berkowitz claimed to have been forced to kill by a demon that possessed his neighbor's dog. Another one, David L. Wood, said he was set up by 3 state-paid false witnesses. An unspecified number of rapists said "she was asking for it". Just a reminder that not all convicted criminals are perfectly honest all the time.
Not saying it isn't possible there was some kind of force involved in her smuggling but she'll probably be hard-pressed to prove anything and she could also very well be making the whole thing up.

Ultratwinkie:

Bashfluff:

the clockmaker:

And I don't think that she should be killed either, years in prison would be enough. But She fucked up in a country that is fucked over by drugs, she made her choice to go in there with those drugs and she would have been warned by them as she came in, they are pretty open about the whole thing and as such I don't have a whole lot of sympathy.

Reasonable responses to this would have been,
-Gee, I hope that the government appeals for a lessened sentence on her part
-Gosh, I hope that she gets off on appeal
-Blimey, I hope that the president gives her clemency (as the Indonesian executive is known to do)

What you did instead of any of those was suggest
-That thousands of asian lives would be worth less than one British woman's
-Suggest that they are barbarians
-Suggest that they only understand violence
-Suggest that the British should 'punish' them for consistent application of their laws in their country.
-Suggest that war, including bombing judiciary premises is an acceptable result because you disagree with their application of their law.

1. It's not that lives are worth less, it's that if you're going to war, people are going to die. It's not the woman, it's the statement that they're making.

2. Well...they are barbarians. No offense, it's just the facts. If you're going to kill someone who is smuggling in drugs, you are being barbaric. This isn't some first world country. I don't understand how hard this is to grasp.

3. If their response to this crime is something violent, and that's a common thing, then yeah, I can see that. People who constantly go to violence when they don't need to tend not to understand other things.

4. What if they killed her for being a lesbian? Or a Jew? Or eating meat? Yes, some laws are worth condemning. A law doesn't become okay because you're not the one who made it.

5. Okay, that is messed up.

Since when do lesbians use guns to take pot shots at children? Sometimes in front of their parents?

When do Jews assassinate a diplomat AND her two soldier bodyguards? To send a message?

When do meat eaters murder hundreds of men, women, and children a day and dump them in mass graves or string up their mutilated corpses to send a message to the government?

They don't, but drug cartels do. Its important to learn the fucking difference.

There is a line that certain criminals cross before they become a real issue to the country. Obviously they crossed the line. So now they are being treated like rebels instead of criminals, which would make sense because criminals can ruin the government's ability to provide for its people. These aren't even petty criminals anymore, these are warlords. So its like giving money to Kony.

This isn't about law and "justice" anymore, and no organized criminals don't stop when they are in prison. They are still able to get the messages out and still lead the organization from prison. Unless you use extreme isolation, which is worse and more expensive than than the death penalty it "replaced."

The only statement the UK would make with a war is a racist one. That the "uppity brown boys dun got it wrong" and "Britain needs to set them straight" despite not knowing whats really going on. Bombing the government so brutal warlords are left to take over? Are you mental?

They convict a woman, and you want to destroy the lives of future generations who have no choice in where they are born?

You know, because its totally rational for an ex-imperialist power, with plenty of historical baggage, to destroy a government and leave everyone there at the whim of brutal warlords. Just because they touched a white woman. What could they possibly make people hate you there? /sarcasm

The UK's reputation and alliances would be destroyed, and rightfully so. I hope this mentality isn't mainstream in the UK, or I'd be worried.

Look if youre assuming that i suggested that because they are "uppity brown boys" and not because they are about to execute a granny then theres something wrong with your mind here. I withdrew the bombing point, its not going to help anyone, i was expressing my disgust at the execution nothing more.

adamsaccount:

ClockworkPenguin:
Regretfully, I can't deny the validity of the verdict. She broke the law and was performing an action likely to lead to much harm to others. I oppose the sentence, because I oppose the death penalty in general, but frankly there doesn't seem to be much to do except hope the sentence gets reduced.

But shes a grandmother, she claims her kids were threatened, wheres the justice in that?

Also gotta love the fuckers who accuse me of racism and then start spouting stereotypes about british people

Most people facing a death sentence will claim a lot of things. If there's no investigation into the allegations then sure, that's pretty unjust, but just because she says so, doesn't make it so.

Denholm Reynholm:

adamsaccount:

ClockworkPenguin:
Regretfully, I can't deny the validity of the verdict. She broke the law and was performing an action likely to lead to much harm to others. I oppose the sentence, because I oppose the death penalty in general, but frankly there doesn't seem to be much to do except hope the sentence gets reduced.

But shes a grandmother, she claims her kids were threatened, wheres the justice in that?

Also gotta love the fuckers who accuse me of racism and then start spouting stereotypes about british people

Most people facing a death sentence will claim a lot of things. If there's no investigation into the allegations then sure, that's pretty unjust, but just because she says so, doesn't make it so.

I get that but a grandmother of 56 with no prior convictions has got have a pretty damn good reason to adopt a life of crime and start drug smuggling into countries that use the death penalty. Something isnt adding up

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