Why do some leftists dislike jews?

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Helmholtz Watson:

Brainpaint:

There's an entire 12 years worth of stuff to read/watch/listen to and you seem to have missed all of it!

Probably because I don't listen to people who try to tell me that "the Jews" are responsible for 9/11. I would have hoped that people had moved past blaming Jews for things like conspiracy theories, regardless of whether those theories involve poisoning wells or causing 9/11.

JESUS ALLAH YAHWEH KRISHNA BEATRICE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER CHRIST!
LISTEN TO YOURSELF READ THAT ALOUD!!!

I'm already sick of this crap already today with the whole thing going on with Yasser Arafat. This exact opinion was used by a woman on the TV today.
"The same people that think he was poisoned are probably the same people that accused Jews of causing 9/11!"

It's like lumping the entire US together and saying that every American speaks with a Texan accent. Just because some do doesn't mean everybody fucking does!

I don't believe Jews caused 9/11 but I'm sure as hell certain the existence of the state of Israel and it's actions sure didn't HELP the war on terror at least and that it's highly likely Afrafat WAS poisoned by either someone from or working with Israel. It's almost FACT how obvious that sounds!

Brainpaint:

I don't believe Jews caused 9/11 but I'm sure as hell certain the existence of the state of Israel and it's actions sure didn't HELP the war on terror at least

Fair enough, as long as you don't think Israel caused 9/11.

Helmholtz Watson:

Grandcrusader:
Yes but I have to wonder, how are any of the people there who claim to be Jews, related to the Jews of the scriptures?

They are related biologically to one another. IMO the reason being is that Judaism doesn't encourage proselytizing, and makes it very difficult for non-Jews to convert, while at the same time requiring Jews to only marry other Jews. From what I've heard, in the past this sometimes was taken to extremes and meant that parents would rather their kids "in the family" than marry a non-Jew- personally I think this is only a rumor and I've never seen it backed up with proof.

That said, while I don't doubt that there have been Jews that married out in the past, its generally been frowned upon.

Hammer et al.[29] confirmed that the Y chromosome of most Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews contained mutations that are also common among Middle Eastern peoples, but uncommon in the general European population.

this quote from your source stands out.

Also the recent DNA from the oldest skulls found in Israel, were of African decent.

Helmholtz Watson:
Can you tell me why your trying to move the goal post and not just acknowledge that it isn't just a "few people" that don't recognize Israel's right to exist? Or do you seriously think that when discussing Israel right to exist, the debate should include all of humanity?
If that is the case, then I must say that I can't fathom a reason why its relevant to this conversation as to what tribal people in places like Papua New Genia think about Israels foundation, and I really don't understand why you think that the opinions of isolated tribes are some how important enough to consider when discussing who disagrees with Israels existence.

As I said, I think you are shift the goal post because while you can include the opinions of obscure tribes throughout the world, you are the only person I've ever met that seems to want to include their opinion when claiming that "very few people contest Israel's right to exist and legitimacy".

Okay.

I wrote "a few" which is, fair enough, a vague statement. You then chose to interpret that in a manner that suited you; thus you invented your own goalposts for my meaning - and then used them to call me naive and intellectually dishonest.

If I then clarify the sorts of things I meant by my initial ambiguous statement, you do not then tell me I'm "moving goalposts", because you never had any idea what my goalposts were in the first place. My intent is not determined by your erroneous assumptions of what my intent is.

Is that clear?

TheIronRuler:

Not using that method would cause unfeasible borders for any country to exist in.

At the end of the day I understand why the local arab leadership fought the Jews at the eve of the UN declaration. Yo are arranging statistics in a manner that seems as if Jews owned little land and were a minority in what parcel of land their were supposed to receive, which would serve to justify the actions of the Arabs in their unilateral declaration of war on the Jewish population there.

Indeed, Israel would need a lot of land which had a Muslim majority to be a viable state. That's why it was given to it in the partition plan. But it is true that the percentage of Mandate Land owned by Jews prior to partition was tiny: under 10%. That I say we should understand why many Arabs were outraged and accept ways Arabs were treated unfairly is not to justify the subsequent invasion of Israel: because there are a lot of other reasons they should, and (more importantly) should not have done so that also need to be considered.

The last bit was a mixu-p of you referring to the creation of Israel and the person you responded to speaking of its legitimacy and comparing it to the other nations forged at the same time - not the late 40s, but the early 20s.

The difference is not relevant to the points I brought up.

Agema:

You then chose to interpret that in a manner that suited you; thus you invented your own goalposts for my meaning

I did no such thing. A "few people" implies a very small number of people, to which I pointed out was nonsense considering that if you were to add up the population of all the countries that don't recognize Israel's existence, such a number is by no means representative of a "few people". Now if you want to say that the majority of the world recognizes Israel's existence, I won't disagree with you on that point.

Agema:

If I then clarify the sorts of things I meant by my initial ambiguous statement, you do not then tell me I'm "moving goalposts", because you never had any idea what my goalposts were in the first place. My intent is not determined by your erroneous assumptions of what my intent is.

Is that clear?

Fair enough , but when you use such vague terms that convey the idea that there isn't a substantial number of people that don't recognize the existence of Israel, you have only yourself to blame when you're called out on such claims.

So when describing a group of people that consist of over two hundred million members, its misleading and/or dishonest to claim that they are just "a few people".

Is that clear?

Grandcrusader:

Hammer et al.[29] confirmed that the Y chromosome of most Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews contained mutations that are also common among Middle Eastern peoples, but uncommon in the general European population.

this quote from your source stands out.

Ok? What are you trying to say other than what I've already said about Jews being related to one another and being of Middle East origin?

Grandcrusader:
Also the recent DNA from the oldest skulls found in Israel, were of African decent.

First, do you have a source? Second, I never said that Jews were the only people to ever live in the Israeli area. It wouldn't surprise me if other groups of people, including African people, lived there before Jews did.

TheIronRuler:
Nationalism is a structure for building a group. Any group (except for all-inclusive 'human', which also rejects some deemed 'inhuman') denies other people as a definition - to create a group, a bond between people, you would have to differentiate themselves from others.
[...]
The embrace of this type of identity created something Germans and French and any others like them took for granted, which was a place to call home and feel safe in. Racism was and still is a great factor for the reason why Jews wouldn't integrate into other groups, and why they couldn't be safe living among others.

Nationalism is an awful structure for building a group because it comes with an in-built system for disdain towards outgroups. You're actually basing a society on tribalistic notions of us versus them if you use it as your foundation.
Yes, use Humanism instead. That's a much better alternative. Nationalism only reinforces what caused so much damage in the past.
I get that we can't get rid of it all at once, but the opposite is absolutely bizarre: Embracing it? Accepting it as a valid way of building a group? That's outrageous. You're setting yourself up to either fail miserably, harm others or do both at the same time.
It's poisonous.
And it won't give you safety, either, it hasn't for decades. It gives you unending conflict and hardliners embracing it as righteous strife.

Helmholtz Watson:
...you have only yourself to blame...

No, actually I have you to blame: for a lot of rude posturing, selective interpretation and presumptiousness. Which you're evidently still at, so I guess you didn't find it clear at all.

Agema:
Which you're evidently still at, so I guess you didn't find it clear at all

What I didn't find clear was why you felt the need to refuse to acknowledge that over two hundred million people constitutes more than "a few people".

Edited out. Please ignore me.

Sadly a lot of "leftists" get taken in by tried and true racist right winged propaganda because it associates jews with the bourgeoisie through imagined proxy associations with a small minority of bourgeois jews.

But also because leftists often want to side with the disenfranchised and oppressed, causing them to identify strongly with Palestinians and refugees who often misdirect their anger at an entire people for systems and actions that only a few people have any real control over.

Okay. The term "Leftist" is really confusing. Who are the "leftists" in this case? American social liberals? European social democrats? Chinese state capitalists? North Korean Juche militarists? Because that's going to have a pretty huge bearing on the answer.

Assuming we're speaking primarily about the former two though..

There. Done.

Social liberals/democrats tend to be highly skeptical of ethnic or religious nationalism, critical of jingoism or militarism, sensitive to the persecution of minorities and human rights violations and concerned with social justice, both on a national and international level. The international reputation of Israel is not particularly positive in these regards.

Throw in the fact that right-wingers tend to be extremely supportive of Israel for these same reasons and the resulting need for "leftists" to differentiate themselves, and you have the makings of a battleground.

Basically, people are stupid and sometimes fail to distinguish between Jews and the state of Israel. However, I daresay the political consequences of this are far less notable than the inability of many right-wingers to distinguish "Muslims" from "al-Qaeda".

Skeleon:

Sleekit:
its not usually "Jews" but "zionists".

Yeah, remember that left-wing groups may tend to be antinationalistic. Zionism is kind of the antithesis to that.
Plus, a lot of left-wingers feel sympathy with the Palestinian civilian population, so they dislike a lot of things the Israeli government does (note the distinction there: civilians versus government, not people versus people).
As such, left-wingers may often have issues with Israel... which is distinct from disliking Jews.

OP, do you have experiences with left-wingers disliking Jews in their own countries etc. or are you conflating dislike for Israel (primarily Israel's government) with dislike for Jews?

I would think that there are some members of the left that could come up with an argument for disliking Judaism. Depending upon one's interpretation of the old testament, it can be very judgmental and restrictive in ways the left dislikes. Pro-life, anti-gay, pro-procreation in an age in which global over-population is a concern and more (including a defense of Zionism). Over all though, I understand Judaism polls well. One concern about why it polls so well is the fear that Jews are not known for having any strong opinions: too non-judgmental.

Gorfias:
I would think that there are some members of the left that could come up with an argument for disliking Judaism. Depending upon one's interpretation of the old testament, it can be very judgmental and restrictive in ways the left dislikes. Pro-life, anti-gay, pro-procreation in an age in which global over-population is a concern and more (including a defense of Zionism). Over all though, I understand Judaism polls well. One concern about why it polls so well is the fear that Jews are not known for having any strong opinions: too non-judgmental.

Pro-life? Stabbing pregnant women in the bellies and whatnot? Only considering people who were born as humans?
Eh. But I take your point, although I'll counter it with my favourite statement lately: Depends.
Depends on the interpretation, namely. A lot of Jews are very Secular, even Atheist, and share many left-wing ideas. Unless we are talking about the misogyny/gender segregation often seen among Orthodox Jews (and I'm sure even among them there are gradients), one can't really make statements like that.
Really, this would be like with Christianity... take a liberal/moderate Christian and compare that to a far-right fundamentalist Christian and you get two ideologies like night and day... and one much more opposed to left-wing beliefs than the other, too.
So I really wouldn't say this is anything inherent in Judaism.

Skeleon:

Gorfias:
Depending upon one's interpretation of the old testament...

I take your point, although I'll counter it with my favourite statement lately: Depends.
Depends on the interpretation, namely. A lot of Jews are very Secular, even Atheist, and share many left-wing ideas....
So I really wouldn't say this is anything inherent in Judaism.

Hard to write. Can a Fundamentalist Jew be an atheist, for instance? He could live his life according to tradition and not believe in G-d, but is he really a fundamentalist?

For this reason, I don't think today's secular Jews, many of them very much of the left, are fundamentalist.

You've got me arguing with myself. Argh.

You could be a fundamentalist and say, yes, the old testament says procreate. I wonder if you can say that, fundamentally, that was true at that time but today, we have over population concerns. You can believe that statement the absolute truth, but not relevant and applicable to these times.

Sex laws seem pretty clear and many would be unpopular with the left. Wonder if the same logic applies.

I'll have to corner a rabbi some time and question him.

hakkarin:
Before anyone goes crazy, re-read my question and take a look at the word SOME.

Ok, good.

Now, I get it why some far-right groups like neo-nazis dislike jews, but what is up with some people on the left hating on them as well? Is there anything special driving their dislike?

Why do some greens not like chocolate?

Why do some libertarians not like ponies?

Why do some evangelicals not like pancakes?

Why do some dogs not like ice cubes?

Do you need more examples of how weird your question is, or is that enough?

a distinction needs to be made between people who identify with the judaic religion, & between people who are descended from abraham.

because anyone from any race or country can be a jew.

in our modern age, the term doesnt really define a racial subset of humankind. & ever since the romans wiped out the genealogical records stored in the temple, Gods method of worship as outlined in scripture is no longer possible to be followed.

which is why Judaisim has changed into what we have today

G_Wright:
a distinction needs to be made between people who identify with the judaic religion, & between people who are descended from abraham.

because anyone from any race or country can be a jew.

in our modern age, the term doesnt really define a racial subset of humankind. & ever since the romans wiped out the genealogical records stored in the temple, Gods method of worship as outlined in scripture is no longer possible to be followed.

which is why Judaisim has changed into what we have today

Your entire post....mostly wrong. Ethnic Jews still exist and I'd appreciate it if you didn't tell me that I don't exist or that my family are liars about their background.

As for "anyone from any race or country [being] a jew", while that is true in theory, conversion to Judaism hasn't traditionally been met with acceptance in the same way that Christianity or Islam has.

Helmholtz Watson:

G_Wright:
a distinction needs to be made between people who identify with the judaic religion, & between people who are descended from abraham.

because anyone from any race or country can be a jew.

in our modern age, the term doesnt really define a racial subset of humankind. & ever since the romans wiped out the genealogical records stored in the temple, Gods method of worship as outlined in scripture is no longer possible to be followed.

which is why Judaisim has changed into what we have today

Your entire post....mostly wrong. Ethnic Jews still exist and I'd appreciate it if you didn't tell me that I don't exist or that my family are liars about their background.

As for "anyone from any race or country [being] a jew", while that is true in theory, conversion to Judaism hasn't traditionally been met with acceptance in the same way that Christianity or Islam has.

And you should not try to misconstrue something as hostile that wasn't meant necessarily with ill intent. I'm not sure how you insinuated he claimed ethnic Jews don't exist, or that he was calling you a liar. Rather, from what I can tell, he said that it's "impossible" to track who is an ethnic Jew and who isn't (whether that's true or not is a separate issue that I don't really care about and won't bother going into here), and that to the modern world, the first thing that comes to mind when you hear that somebody is Jewish, you think of it as their religion, and not necessarily as their ethnic background.

I'd say the entire history of the world dislikes Jews. I didn't know leftists in particular dislike them. It seems mostly a baggage thing at this point.

Hap2:
to the modern world, the first thing that comes to mind when you hear that somebody is Jewish, you think of it as their religion, and not necessarily as their ethnic background.

That's fine, but it doesn't change the fact that ethnic Jews exist.

Helmholtz Watson:

Hap2:
to the modern world, the first thing that comes to mind when you hear that somebody is Jewish, you think of it as their religion, and not necessarily as their ethnic background.

That's fine, but it doesn't change the fact that ethnic Jews exist.

It's a weird language thing that somehow happened. Ethnic Jews are actually several groups (I'm Ashkenazi) but rather than say Ashkenazi or Sephardi and such, it's all just gotten lumped into "Jewish". Not really sure how that happened.

TekMoney:

Helmholtz Watson:

Hap2:
to the modern world, the first thing that comes to mind when you hear that somebody is Jewish, you think of it as their religion, and not necessarily as their ethnic background.

That's fine, but it doesn't change the fact that ethnic Jews exist.

It's a weird language thing that somehow happened. Ethnic Jews are actually several groups (I'm Ashkenazi) but rather than say Ashkenazi or Sephardi and such, it's all just gotten lumped into "Jewish". Not really sure how that happened.

You're mixing genealogical ethnicity, with cultural ethnicity.
On a genetic level Jews from Europe(weather they are Iberian(Spheradic), or Germanic(Ashkenaz)) share common genetic markers with other Jewish communities such as those from N. Africa, central Africa, the Arabian peninsula and even central Asia.
That said "European" Jews share more common markers with Palestinian populations(excluding former and current "anusim") in the West Bank, and other Levant populations such as those found in coastal Lebanon, than Jewish populations from African and the Arabian peninsula.

They hate them because they are jews. They only use anti Zionism as an excuse to do that. They are some of the biggest hypocrites in the world.

MacNille:
They hate them because they are jews. They only use anti Zionism as an excuse to do that. They are some of the biggest hypocrites in the world.

Hi, I was raised Jewish and am a very left wing person who is extremely critical of Israel. Please explain to me how I actually hate my family, but use my dislike of the policies of a country to hide that.

MacNille:
They hate them because they are Jews. They only use anti Zionism as an excuse to do that. They are some of the biggest hypocrites in the world.

Weirdly for a long time historically Jews were associated with the left and communism. The comparison wasn't all wrong either, since Russian Jews were disproportionately represented in the Bolshevik and Menshevik parties. Most of this was due to a desire to bring about change in Russia, since the old Empire generally supported violent pogroms against Jews in the pale of settlement. A lot of anti-Jewish sentiment from the right arose because of this perceived link.

That said, I consider myself center-left, and I have no issue with most Jews. I dislike many of Israels political positions and its actions, but I still support the states right to exist. I can dislike the state of Israel because of its policies without necessarily disliking its people. Much in the same way I can dislike the policies of China, Russia, the US or Greece.

I don't hate Israelis, Chinese, Russians, Americans or Greeks, but I do dislike some of their politicians and the decisions they have made in the name of their countries. Or religions for that matter.

Helmholtz Watson:
Fair enough, as long as you don't think Israel caused 9/11.

Surely he's right in the sense that it's a contributing factor to the Anti-American sentiment used to fuel terror attacks on the USA from MENA, including but not limited to 9/11?

Danny Ocean:

Helmholtz Watson:
Fair enough, as long as you don't think Israel caused 9/11.

Surely he's right in the sense that it's a contributing factor to the Anti-American sentiment used to fuel terror attacks on the USA from MENA, including but not limited to 9/11?

A contributing factor in Anti-Americanism? Sure, but what I was referring to was, as mentioned in a previous post, the idea that Jews/Israel are the sole/primary arbiters of the 9/11 attack and that there is some conspiracy to cover it up. That is what I was critical of.

thaluikhain:

Gergar12:
They "hate" jews because of Israel, and the whole Zionist trying to take over the whole world conspiracies.

Then you have to ask why conspiracy stuff about Zionists and world domination is so popular, though.

I would say at the very least there is a Zionist conspiracy to shut up the non-Zionist Jews, and since it seems being Jewish is synonymous with being pro Israel for the average person, I'd say Zionist power has a far reach within the media.

Hammartroll:

thaluikhain:

Gergar12:
They "hate" jews because of Israel, and the whole Zionist trying to take over the whole world conspiracies.

Then you have to ask why conspiracy stuff about Zionists and world domination is so popular, though.

I would say at the very least there is a Zionist conspiracy to shut up the non-Zionist Jews, and since it seems being Jewish is synonymous with being pro Israel for the average person, I'd say Zionist power has a far reach within the media.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neturei_Karta

The Anti-Defamation League estimates that fewer than 100 members of the community take part in anti-Israel activism.

They oppose the establishment of Israel on religious grounds as they believe that the Kingdom of God can only be restored once the messiah arrives, and as such see Israel as an "abomination".
Their believes have nothing to do with political or moral reasoning and their stance with anti-Israeli organizations is purely pragmatic.

They are a bunch of crazy fanatics e.g.:

One of the targets of the 2008 Mumbai attacks was the Nariman House which was operated by the Jewish Chabad movement. Neturei Karta subsequently issued a leaflet criticising the Chabad movement for its relations with "the filthy, deplorable traitors - the cursed Zionists that are your friends." It added that the Chabad movement has been imbued with "false national sentiment" and criticised the organisation for allowing all Jews to stay in its centres, without differentiating "between good and evil, right and wrong, pure and impure, a Jew and a person who joins another religion, a believer and a heretic."

There is no "conspiracy" to silence them, not any more than there is to "silence" any other nut job that spews similar nonsense.

Here's a good example from another perspective:

In "Civil War and Reconstruction in Alabama ," by Walter Lynwood Fleming, Fleming documents that some blacks supported the Klan because they lived a good life compared to field slaves. But this was only while slavery existed. So they wanted their old lives back.

Does this means that African Americans support the KKK? or oppose equal rights? There were also plenty of "black sympathizers" in south Africa that cooperated with the regime for purely pragmatic reasons, just as there were Jewish and non-Jewish people that cooperated with the Nazi's in occupied Europe.

Verbatim:

Hammartroll:

thaluikhain:

Then you have to ask why conspiracy stuff about Zionists and world domination is so popular, though.

I would say at the very least there is a Zionist conspiracy to shut up the non-Zionist Jews, and since it seems being Jewish is synonymous with being pro Israel for the average person, I'd say Zionist power has a far reach within the media.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neturei_Karta

The Anti-Defamation League estimates that fewer than 100 members of the community take part in anti-Israel activism.

They oppose the establishment of Israel on religious grounds as they believe that the Kingdom of God can only be restored once the messiah arrives, and as such see Israel as an "abomination".
Their believes have nothing to do with political or moral reasoning and their stance with anti-Israeli organizations is purely pragmatic.

They are a bunch of crazy fanatics e.g.:

One of the targets of the 2008 Mumbai attacks was the Nariman House which was operated by the Jewish Chabad movement. Neturei Karta subsequently issued a leaflet criticising the Chabad movement for its relations with "the filthy, deplorable traitors - the cursed Zionists that are your friends." It added that the Chabad movement has been imbued with "false national sentiment" and criticised the organisation for allowing all Jews to stay in its centres, without differentiating "between good and evil, right and wrong, pure and impure, a Jew and a person who joins another religion, a believer and a heretic."

There is no "conspiracy" to silence them, not any more than there is to "silence" any other nut job that spews similar nonsense.

Here's a good example from another perspective:

In "Civil War and Reconstruction in Alabama ," by Walter Lynwood Fleming, Fleming documents that some blacks supported the Klan because they lived a good life compared to field slaves. But this was only while slavery existed. So they wanted their old lives back.

Does this means that African Americans support the KKK? or oppose equal rights? There were also plenty of "black sympathizers" in south Africa that cooperated with the regime for purely pragmatic reasons, just as there were Jewish and non-Jewish people that cooperated with the Nazi's in occupied Europe.

The Anti-Defamation League is a Zionist organization who's purpose is to throw the name "anti-Semite!" at anyone who disagrees with them, of course they'd try to downplay anti-Zionist organizations. It was founded by Sigmund Livingston who was a member of the B'nai B'rith, an organization dedicated to, among other things, "the security and continuity of the Jewish people and the State of Israel", as stated on it's wiki page.

You didn't even bother to mention the competing factoids surrounding the sentence you quoted such as: "Neturei Karta states that no official count of the number of members exists."
And: "The Jewish Virtual Library puts their numbers at 5,000 in Jerusalem" < and that's referring to Jews in Jerusalem alone, a population which one would expect to be low given their beliefs. If they wanted to properly represent the anti-Zionist Jewish population they would at least count the number living in the US, specifically New York which holds the world's largest Jewish population outside Israel.

There you have it, more black hats and beards than you can handle.
And I don't even know if all of the people who follow this basic ideology pigeon hole themselves under the Neturei Karta title you pulled up. I doubt they do.

Why would the ADL even feel the need to criticize anti-Zionist Jews if they didn't have a pro-Zionist agenda? The ADL is largely responsible for the main issue this thread is discussing which is the making of the title Jew synonymous with the title Zionist, which is a monstrous thing to do to the Jews who wish to separate themselves from Israel's baggage.

And what makes them so much more radical than the Zionists taking over Palestinian land? You act like them basing their anti-Zionist beliefs in religion makes them unusual, but isn't religion the whole motive for the Jew's migration back to Israel in the first place? That their religion says they have a right to the land? In my opinion these "nut jobs" are a lot more pleasant to have on this Earth than the nut jobs who insist on pushing others out of their homes.

And I don't know what the point was about Mumbai attacks you mentioned, that the leaflet was cruel and supposedly represents all of the Neturei, which in turn you seem to assert represents all Israel protesting Jews?

Hammartroll:
snip

Rofl, oh boy. I just love the fact that you are trying your best to use Zionism as a derogatory term.
Again the thing your link is a complete nonsense, you don't even bother to watch it (not to mention fact check it).
There weren't 10,000 of them there, it's a fringe group, that rally was mostly a Hasidic rally that was against the social changes that were happening in Israel at the time that would remove exemptions from military and civil services on purely religious grounds. That rally consisted of many Ultra Orthodox factions that only a small fraction of them actually opposed the existence of Israel.

And yes they are nut jobs, and the worse racist you can think of, them gentiles are nothing more than dirt and filth that would be cleansed when the Messiah comes. They are a fringe group of Judaism, while it's true that the US hosts the largest Jewish population outside of modern day Israel. Only about 7% of them are Ultra Orthodox(black hats and beards for racists like yourself), and out of those only several 1000's of them belong to the groups such as you mention.

They are no different than the white supremacists sorry "separatists" who opposed the South African apartheid regime, because the white race should not be tainted by residing in the black continent and mingling with the "mud people".

Zionism has nothing to do with religion, the early Zionists were most socialists with out any major religious beliefs. A Zionist migrates to Israel for the same reason a Frenchman migrates back to France, Zionism was born out of the same "Blood and Land" movements that produced modern European nationalism in the 19th century. It has very little to do with religion. But then again you have no problem with giving over 75% of Palestine to a Saudi family that together with a Bedouin minority rules over the largest Palestinian population. Imposing quotas for Palestinian admission into schools, jobs, forcing them to pay additional taxes, and deny them equal representation in parliament. You have no objection that all other countries in the region were created in the same manner causing never endless conflicts.
Nor did your predecessors had any objection to Jordan annexing the West Bank, and demolishing 100's of Jewish religious and historic sites in it, and within the old city of Jerusalem.

Like it or not Israel was created trough International law way prior to the UN, in fact the UN charter calls for the creation of Israel as it ratified the Sanremo agreement which mandates it. If you want to cry about violation of International law, then the partition plan and the creation of Jordan did actually violate it.

Verbatim:

Like it or not Israel was created trough International law way prior to the UN, in fact the UN charter calls for the creation of Israel as it ratified the Sanremo agreement which mandates it.

You're mistaking the League of Nations for the United Nations. The San Remo conference was in 1920, whereas the UN did not exist until 1945. Very different organisations.

The League of Nations was dissolved in 1946, and there's an argument to be made that the British Mandatory government did not have any international legal mandate for the policies it pursued in 1946-1948. Mandatory policy was at this time directed by the British Foreign Office and Colonial Office, along with the High Commissioner and military personnel. International law played no role in those years.

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