Shaky Cam Games

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Labcoat Samurai:
Stand still for a while in *any* 3rd person game. The camera will eventually start moving on its own. Just sayin'

I don't know what you're talking about. The only experiance I can recall in standing still in any game was the character going into idle animations.

HankMan:

luckycharms8282:
Yea, cloverfield's camera shook so much it made me feel nauseated to the core

Did they really point the camera at people's feet when they were running, like they did in that South Park episode(s)?

I cant reall remember. All I recall is the camera shaking so much you couldnt tell what was going on and the camera guy was either breathing heavily, panting, or saying something stupid. :)

unwesen:

The Cheezy One:
Cloverfield was actually really good, but the size of the monster wavers somewhat.

No it wasn't. It lacked something rather basic, an insignificant little thing I like to call "plot". I know, I know, that's a fairly old fashioned concept, but I'm old enough myself to have grown up with such things, so I miss them.

Right. If you were looking for a plot, Cloverfield was not the movie for you. Even some sort of back story or some explanation about the monster would have been helpful.

HA! I KNEW there was a reason God of War and Devil May Cry didn't appeal to me in the slightest!
Fun read as always.

It's just a mechanic to change the experience. Though if it's so glaring you can't help but wish it weren't there, then yeah, they fucked up. Or you fucked up, you bloody lemon, by ranting about something completely trivial. Haven't played the game, and don't plan to, so it's not like I could judge.

HankMan:

Yahtzee Croshaw:
So, if God of War is popular, it's because lots of people today are emo, selfish, self-hating, physically weak, sexist, responsibility-avoiding whiners who sympathize with Republican economic policies.

I most certainly DO NOT sympathize with Republican economic policies! And I go to the gym every day!

Hey, I second the gym part! (and as someone not from the USA, the Republican economic policies part doesn't really concern me much)
... and I'm self-hating and responsibility-avoiding. Does the admission make me a whiner too?
Fuck if I know, let's just drown this in vulgarity. FUUUUUUCK YEAAAAAHH

luckycharms8282:
Right. If you were looking for a plot, Cloverfield was not the movie for you. Even some sort of back story or some explanation about the monster would have been helpful.

It's not even about the back story so much. I don't mind a mystery. It's the fact that you never learned anything about the characters and then they died.

Oh, no, I'm wrong, you learn one thing: the main guy is obviously a brain damaged douche. Not only does he prefer filming stuff to helping his supposed friends, he also prefers it to, say, running for his life.

Ok, ok, I'll stop ranting now.

I'm surprised by everyone who writes off Yahtzee's comments as jokes and therefore not to be taken seriously. In my experience, a true comedian is always dead serious when he jokes - George Carlin, Colbert & Stewart, Lennie Bruce, etc. Comedy is just what happens when someone tells the truth. I'm not saying that Yahtzee is always a comedian, but he certainly strives for it on most occasions.

craddoke:
I'm surprised by everyone who writes off Yahtzee's comments as jokes and therefore not to be taken seriously. In my experience, a true comedian is always dead serious when he jokes - George Carlin, Colbert & Stewart, Lennie Bruce, etc. Comedy is just what happens when someone tells the truth. I'm not saying that Yahtzee is always a comedian, but he certainly strives for it on most occasions.

Exactly. I've noticed people only write off his reviews as comedy when they really love the game or other object he is attacking. It's makes them feel better to do that. Of course Yahtzee is giving a proper review and being genuinely critical. Just because it's funny doesn't mean what he says is less true.
Anyway I don't understand why people feel the need to do this. He has disliked games I think are really good like The Witcher but I didn't feel the need to challenge his opinion or dismiss it.

By the way Yahtzee I for one appreciate the fact that you featured a stone gargoyle from Blood (the best game ever) in your Spider-Man: Shattered Dimensions review.

It took decades for technology to develop anti-glare Photochemicals, the Steadi-Cam and Stabilizing Shutters to eliminate lens flares, camera shake and motion blur, only to have it all thrown out the window or circumvented with special effects for the sake of some directors intentions to have a "gritty" and "realistic" cinematographic performance.

How Ironic.

Video games or indeed anything in the realm of 3D computer graphics have far more advantages in camera options compared to real life, since they can have angles as sharp or wide as 180° to ∞° with the ability to see in an orthographic perspective, with infinitely minute shutter speed to absolutely remove motion blur, and the camera can literally go anywhere and move any way it pleases.

Yahtzee Crowshaw:
So, if God of War is popular, it's because lots of people today are emo, selfish, self-hating, physically weak, sexist, responsibility-avoiding whiners who sympathize with Republican economic policies

Well you can't blame them for understanding their audience. *snicker snicker*

As a conservative, I feel I should say something... but having never touched any of the games mentioned in this column, I'm sure I'd just end up putting my foot in my mouth or something without realizing it.

luckycharms8282:
Yea, cloverfield's camera shook so much it made me feel nauseated to the core

Try Irreversible. The subject material is not for the faint of heart, but the camera moves are worse than any shaky cam I've ever seen - and they're on purpose.

My theory about C:LOS is that Patrick Sean Zobek was following Gabe with the camera the whole time, and he's got a bad case of DT.
There is ONE God of War clone with a female protagonist, but it made up for any possible progressivism by being terrible.

I'm still enjoying Castlevania greatly. I guess its because I never really played God of War or Dante's Inferno. I never really notice the camera shaking too much. Oh well, thats Yahtzee for ya anyways.

"it's definitely true that liking Resident Evil 5 makes you a racist."

As a racist, I'm offended by that. I think Resident Evil 5 is shit.

I don't know why they didn't just make a 3d CASTLEVANIA game...you know, with the open world exploration, platforming, and character upgrades (that aren't all for combat purposes) except in 3d. It could be done, and it could be done extremely well by people who give a rats ass.
Where, exactly, is the 360's/PS3's version of Zelda, Metroid, (and don't say 3d Dot Hero) or ANY GODDAMN GAME IN WHICH THE MAIN MECHANIC DOESN'T INVOLVE RIPPING CREATURES APART WITH A SWORD/GUN/MAGIC?!?! Portal is lightyears ahead of any other game on either console and it's not even a full length game!!!

"The last game that specifically drew attention to the camera was Mario 64, and only because it was relatively new technology. At the beginning they established that the controllable camera was being held on a fishing line by a small cloud monster. But who was filming whenever the cloud monster was on screen, Nintendo? You won't be lasting long if you keep trying to feed us that kind of bullshit."
Even in that game, you could play through the entire thing without knowing you were looking through a lakitu-cam. The camera was smooth and fluid, (incredible for the time) and it only brought attention to it in the first 10 seconds, and good for you if you noticed him in the mirror.

I can believe that the decision to make the camera move back and forth smoothly was to give the player depth perception and more information about their surroundings, but I seriously doubt this was the case. Yahtzee once said the best games are the ones that don't try to impress, and I find this to be more and more true every day. If a game is good, it doesn't need to put on a show and flourish sparkling batons. (then again, Yahtzee's probably making a big deal out of nothing in the case of this game)

I love the Katamari series, so that makes me a stoner.

I noticed the'shaky' camera aswell, but after awhile I also realised that it isn't in effect all the time. It seems it isn't used in smaller, more closed off areas (I have to play it again to be shure). This left me the impression that it was somekind of an effect in open spaces. Like someone had mounted the camera to a tree branch with ductape and over optimistic view of physics. That said, I have to completely agree that the effect is somewhat annoying feature the developers decided to implement instead of giving another look at the various main camera issues.

Labcoat Samurai:
- snip -

Struck a nerve eh? Also, to most of your comments, "Lolwut?"

OT: I liked the piece. It was comedic but still addressed some seriously bad camera issues games have been having as of late.

I think shaky cam worked a few times (like when you were almost killed by an explosion in the original CoD), but not many times. However, in those few early times when it really worked, someone else saw it and went "well, I guess what made this game good is the shaky camera," and so a trend was born. It's like when the Matrix did slowmo and bullet dodging. People couldn't stop talking about Keanu Reaves falling on his ass rreeaallyy slowly.

Fronzel:

Labcoat Samurai:
Stand still for a while in *any* 3rd person game. The camera will eventually start moving on its own. Just sayin'

I don't know what you're talking about. The only experiance I can recall in standing still in any game was the character going into idle animations.

Well, I'm exaggerating when I say "any" but it's very common. Remembering which games exactly have it is a bit of a challenge for me, because they run together a bit, and I could be projecting one game onto another in my memory, but if you've played as many games as I have, and walked away without pausing as often as I have, cameras eventually getting a mind of their own seems normal. Not that that's the same thing as what happens in CV, exactly.

Dante's Inferno and Castlevania LoS are not "God of War but", they're outright God of War ripoffs, so complaining about Yahtzee talking about the similarities too much is completely retarded. He's a critic, remember?

Lord Thodin:

Labcoat Samurai:
- snip -

Struck a nerve eh?

The point of a reaction thread is to react. That's what I was doing. He made an impassioned case, I thought his points were flawed at best, so I said so. I wouldn't read too much into it.

Also, to most of your comments, "Lolwut?"

Eh, I stand by my comments.

Labcoat Samurai:

Every action game I can think of has air combos.

Like...really? How many action games do you know XD.

benzooka:
It is not the equivalent for realism or even a hand-held camera if the image is shaking like Michael J. Fox's coffee.

Hahaha. Thin line man, thin line.

The strive for realism has never benefitted games and yes, trying to simulate a real working camera is a pretty dumb idea. Never understood why people can't hold their hands straight in movies, it's not that hard.

Electrogecko:
I don't know why they didn't just make a 3d CASTLEVANIA game...you know, with the open world exploration, platforming, and character upgrades (that aren't all for combat purposes) except in 3d. It could be done, and it could be done extremely well by people who give a rats ass.

Wasn't that what Curse of Darkness was? I haven't played that so I don't know how it turned out. I know Lament of Innocence had free-roaming, although there wasn't really that much to explore and the game as a whole was at best above average.

Talcon:
I agree with Yahtzee, those games are pretty similar. But still, it isn't fair to call them clones. I don't expect or even desire that every single game has an original idea. You could argue that L4D's Survival mode is just a copy of GoW's Horde mode. But that shouldn't matter, if you do it better and improve upon the formula, who cares if it isn't original?

Sometimes we want more of the same because we enjoyed the original. Does every Guitar Hero sequel have to introduce something original when all we want is more songs to play?

But part of the "Like God of War but" thing is that the "but" is trivial; "like God of War but Dante's Inferno", "Like God of War but the Four Horsemen", "like God of War but Castlevania". Is there improvement on the formula?

I'm surprised he didn't mention lens flare.

That part where Super Mario 64 got called out for its "who is controlling the camera when Latiku is on screen" bullshit really made me laugh. There's something I'd never expected to hear a game get criticized for.

Yeah, you're reading too much into things - but at least you are a comedian, not a news anchor.

Also, it is really sad when a franchise such as Castlevania which dates back to the NES feels it has to rip a newer franchise off.

Labcoat Samurai:

Onyx Oblivion:
Can't recall the shaky cam in Castlevania.

I just finished it on Friday, after 2 weeks of not playing, and can't recall the shaky cam.

WHERE THE FUCK WAS IT? Someone jog my memory, damn it.

Me either. I mean, it moves about on its own, sure. But I recall it sweeping about smoothly when it moved. There may have been times where it swept gently and slowly about while otherwise maintaining the same angle... but that's not shaky cam.

Same here. I must be one of the few people who genuinely didn't seem bothered by the camera in Castlevania LoS...

Huh, Google is blocking FullyRamblomatic for distributing malware. Yahtzee, you evil hacker.

It has quick light attacks and slow heavy attacks, as well as combos involving the two, air combos and the ability to grab and instakill the enemy with the circle button if you're just completely bored with tossing the guy around. You gather souls from enemies and use them to upgrade your combos and magic spells you learn along the way, and collect things that eventually make your health and magic bars bigger. Then at the end of it you kill whoever the local equivalent of Satan is.

Sorry Yahtzee, but I'd have to say "like Castlevania" should have been the phrase. I don't mean the new Castelvania games, I mean the old, classic ones. They have all of these features:

Collect souls - collect hearts
Instakill - special weapons
Kill Satan - Dracula

The other details are in both games as well, especially if you take into consideration Symphony of the Night.

Wow, it's like Yahtzee had a checklist titled "address Falseprophet's pet peeves" this week.

1)

Anarchemitis:
It took decades for technology to develop anti-glare Photochemicals, the Steadi-Cam and Stabilizing Shutters to eliminate lens flares, camera shake and motion blur, only to have it all thrown out the window or circumvented with special effects for the sake of some directors intentions to have a "gritty" and "realistic" cinematographic performance.

How Ironic.

Thank you sincerely for eloquently summarizing everything that's annoyed me about action and horror films--and by extension, games--for the last 10-15 years. I couldn't say it any better than this. I hate this whole trend of making the camera a character in the middle of the action.

2) I'm also tired of these angsty, self-centred protagonists. It's not entirely new, either. While most 80s action heroes weren't angsty, they frequently needed a personal motivation to go after the bad guy. This was usually: the bad guy kills or kidnaps his girlfriend/wife, or more often, the bad guy kills or kidnaps his hetero life-partner. What's wrong with a protagonist who goes after the bad guy because it's his job? Or because it's the right thing to do? What shocks me most of all is this "personal agenda" crap predominates American fiction: somehow, writers from the country that was founded by a war fought over high-minded ideals can't conceive that anyone would fight for reasons other than personal ones. As much as space marine/WWII FPSes don't really appeal to me, at least most of those protagonists act out of higher ideals than themselves.

Lerxst:
Sorry Yahtzee, but I'd have to say "like Castlevania" should have been the phrase. I don't mean the new Castelvania games, I mean the old, classic ones. They have all of these features:

Collect souls - collect hearts
Instakill - special weapons
Kill Satan - Dracula

The other details are in both games as well, especially if you take into consideration Symphony of the Night.

It's true; Castlevania also did the "chain/whip weapons" and "kill all the monsters of the Greek pantheon/Hammer & Universal Horror films" thing long before the PlayStation or XBox even existed. I feel sad when such an innovative series is so forgotten it's seen as a poor-quality imitation. Kind of like going back and watching Babylon 5 again.

Brotherofwill:

Labcoat Samurai:

Every action game I can think of has air combos.

Like...really? How many action games do you know XD.

Well, "every" *might* be an exaggeration.... let's see.

God of War series, Dante's Inferno, and Castlevania, sure. Also every game in the Devil May Cry series, Bayonetta, Heavenly Sword, Enslaved, all the xbox/ps3 Ninja Gaiden games, SW:TFU.... that's at least 15 games unless you count sigma and sigma 2 as separate, which I won't. It's also 9 franchises.

I'm having a small amount of difficulty thinking of other recent action games. I'm not extremely focused on the genre, being fond of adventure, RPG, FPS, 3PS, etc.

Maybe if it helps, I use "action" and "hack 'n slash" interchangeably. That might be the point of confusion. So yeah, I don't count games like Zelda or Fable as action games. They are adventure games with a hint of RPG (a bit more than a hint in Fable's case). That classification is entirely arbitrary and if you disagree with it, that's fine, but maybe my point makes more sense to you in that context?

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