Extra Punctuation: Hating Warhammer 40k and Space Marine

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ACman:
I am talking about humans.

I don't care about orks pirates/eldar pirates/space marine pirates/chaos pirates.

I am talking about human pirates within human space.

I am talking about fractional separation in government; not within the inquisition, not between unrelated planets, not hive/desert/jungle/factory/death world differences but differences between regions of space that form say trading blocks or defensive coalitions or mini-empires/kindoms who might(would!) have rivalries between each other.

I can't actually see any of that in the question I responded to, all I saw you asking about were pirates. Of which there are plenty.

However the example that comes off the top of my head that comes close to what you are asking now would be the Badab war. Though the majority of the fighting was done by Space Marines so it may not fit your criteria. It began over the proper proceedure for collecting the Imperial Tithe, ultimately leading to Huron seceding from the Imperium. Piracy was a measure used by the secessionists to disrupt trade between the loyalist parties, and the fact that the sector is in a dangerous part of space haven to all manner of scum and villainy on the run from the law.

There is also the Age of Apostasy, which was a giant power struggle between the Administratum and the Ecclesiarchy. This fundamentally altered the separation of powers in the Imperium, gave rise to the Sister of Battle and there has been bad blood between the 2 arms of government since.

Another incident within the ranks of the Imperial Navy is the Gareox Prerogative. It is mentioned a number of times in the BFG background material but hasn't really been expanded upon. But what I can gather is there was a split in the Navy on strategic and tactical lines: Supporters of the Gareox prerogative believed in assault craft and carriers as the primary firepower of the fleet, whereas the old guard favoured big guns and bigger ships. Ultimately this lead to open conflict between the 2 factions, where the Gareox Prerogative was defeated.

Though the last 2 events don't really involve piracy (outside of being a side effect of civil conflict)

Major Tom:

ACman:
I am talking about humans.

I don't care about orks pirates/eldar pirates/space marine pirates/chaos pirates.

I am talking about human pirates within human space.

I am talking about fractional separation in government; not within the inquisition, not between unrelated planets, not hive/desert/jungle/factory/death world differences but differences between regions of space that form say trading blocks or defensive coalitions or mini-empires/kindoms who might(would!) have rivalries between each other.

I can't actually see any of that in the question I responded to, all I saw you asking about were pirates. Of which there are plenty.

However the example that comes off the top of my head that comes close to what you are asking now would be the Badab war. Though the majority of the fighting was done by Space Marines so it may not fit your criteria. It began over the proper proceedure for collecting the Imperial Tithe, ultimately leading to Huron seceding from the Imperium. Piracy was a measure used by the secessionists to disrupt trade between the loyalist parties, and the fact that the sector is in a dangerous part of space haven to all manner of scum and villainy on the run from the law.

There is also the Age of Apostasy, which was a giant power struggle between the Administratum and the Ecclesiarchy. This fundamentally altered the separation of powers in the Imperium, gave rise to the Sister of Battle and there has been bad blood between the 2 arms of government since.

Another incident within the ranks of the Imperial Navy is the Gareox Prerogative. It is mentioned a number of times in the BFG background material but hasn't really been expanded upon. But what I can gather is there was a split in the Navy on strategic and tactical lines: Supporters of the Gareox prerogative believed in assault craft and carriers as the primary firepower of the fleet, whereas the old guard favoured big guns and bigger ships. Ultimately this lead to open conflict between the 2 factions, where the Gareox Prerogative was defeated.

Though the last 2 events don't really involve piracy (outside of being a side effect of civil conflict)

Sorry I've been discussing this with multiple people.

Previously I guess I've been arguing for some granularity in imperial influence. Defined regions/factions where Ecclesiarchy wanes and Administratum dominates or vice versa... Or where some third party rises over them that isn't chaos/xenos/tau/c'tan/spagetti monster of doom.

And pirates and smugglers and bounty hunters, oh my!

ACman:

Sorry I've been discussing this with multiple people.

Previously I guess I've been arguing for some granularity in imperial influence. Defined regions/factions where Ecclesiarchy wanes and Administratum dominates or vice versa... Or where some third party rises over them that isn't chaos/xenos/tau/c'tan/spagetti monster of doom.

And pirates and smugglers and bounty hunters, oh my!

No problem. That is a really good idea, and I think there enough scope in the fluff to allow for that. As I understand it the Imperium does allow a bit of free hand when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of actually governing a sub sector or a system, as long as they pay their tithe and worship the Emperor, so it would be natural that different place adopt different ways of doing things that clash with others when they trade or have to fight together.....

But I do have a possible third faction for you: The Adeptus Mechanicus. A forge world or a sub sector dominated by a forge world would put priority on information/orders coming form Mars than Terra, and they often pursue their own agenda alongside that of the Administratum and the Ecclesiarchy, at times at odds with the other organisations. The Emperor is nominally named as the earthly representaion of the Omnissiah, but for all intents and purposes the Tech Priests of Mars have a religion of their own.

ACman:

I am talking about humans.

I don't care about orks pirates/eldar pirates/space marine pirates/chaos pirates.

I am talking about human pirates within human space.

I am talking about fractional separation in government; not within the inquisition, not between unrelated planets, not hive/desert/jungle/factory/death world differences but differences between regions of space that form say trading blocks or defensive coalitions or mini-empires/kindoms who might(would!) have rivalries between each other.

Pirates do crop up. Rogue military, rogue traders gone bad or skirting the edge of the law, corporations and other such large organisations doing dodgy stuff, groups that get declared renegades or heretics for whatever reason, human factions from outside the Imperium. Same with planetary systems and the nobility, they all compete and occasionally war with each other. Revolutions happen and as long as they stay within imperial law the Imperium leaves it be, it's just a minor local issue. All this stuff happens, it just isn't within the scope of the main wargame. The RPG's Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader give much more in depth and believable view of 40K, I still don't like the general direction the game has gone but they help.

EDIT:
I also agree with you on the point about Imperial propaganda. The idea that only the current system can keep humanity from falling into ruin is just the imperial line. Yes chaos exists as a threat, as do the orks and eldar, however that a system as backwards and retarded as the Imperium could survive for 10,000 years against them leads me to believe they are not as great a threat as is made out.

One major point about 40K is that the "Truth" is very hard to discern. The majority of things that you read about could well be propaganda, or just wrong because the in universe source is a clueless muppet. Bits of fluff are often marked heretical or hinted to be a bit of chaos trickery or what have you, and really they could be any shade of true/false. It is all a fictional universe and is therefore open to interpretation by the reader. Having started with Rogue Trader in 1987 my view of the 40K universe is going to be different from someone who has just got into the fluff in the past 5 years. A lot of things really don't make sense or the given explanations ring very hollow and untrue. For example I just don't get how the mechanicus got hit with the stupid stick post heresy. Beforehand the whole of humanity was on a massive wave of scientific redicovery, then BAM suddenly they don't understand how it all works and the Imperium stagnates. I can sort see how they can keep humanity as whole largely ignorant of high technology, but not the Mechanicus themselves.

Major Tom:

ACman:

Sorry I've been discussing this with multiple people.

Previously I guess I've been arguing for some granularity in imperial influence. Defined regions/factions where Ecclesiarchy wanes and Administratum dominates or vice versa... Or where some third party rises over them that isn't chaos/xenos/tau/c'tan/spagetti monster of doom.

And pirates and smugglers and bounty hunters, oh my!

No problem. That is a really good idea, and I think there enough scope in the fluff to allow for that. As I understand it the Imperium does allow a bit of free hand when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of actually governing a sub sector or a system, as long as they pay their tithe and worship the Emperor, so it would be natural that different place adopt different ways of doing things that clash with others when they trade or have to fight together.....

But I do have a possible third faction for you: The Adeptus Mechanicus. A forge world or a sub sector dominated by a forge world would put priority on information/orders coming form Mars than Terra, and they often pursue their own agenda alongside that of the Administratum and the Ecclesiarchy, at times at odds with the other organisations. The Emperor is nominally named as the earthly representaion of the Omnissiah, but for all intents and purposes the Tech Priests of Mars have a religion of their own.

Yes there is some scope in the fluff but it's implied that the imperium is uniform and monolithic.

I know the fluff is written from the point of view of imperium propaganda/reports to the inquisistion., but there could be more of:

"the tetrach quadrant has fallen under the influence of the Duke Felemar. While he is of no immediate threat to the imperium his power is great enough that detente rather than escalation is prefered in these circumstances"

Let's face it if some lame-ass anime race like the tau can seize an area of space then there should be a human prince that can pull off the same trick.

ACman:

Let's face it if some lame-ass anime race like the tau can seize an area of space then there should be a human prince that can pull off the same trick.

I've actually got the exact opposite gripe; it seems like the vast majority of the 40k books are Imperials vs Seperationists, Cultists, Chaos SMurfs (and cultists). Even when there's Tyranids involved it's usually mostly rooting out Genestealer cultists despite the fact that they haven't been a playable faction in what? Fifteen years? It's got a minagerie of Xenos, but with the occasional exception it's Human vs Human violence, and less than a half dozen books are Xenos vs Xenos, and even then it's Eldar, which are damn close. Hell, Firewarrior was Tau vs friggin human cultists.

There's allusion to epic fights like Mugen Ra vs an entire damn Tyranid Splinter Fleet, or the battle on some insignificant agri-world in the Octavius system between the Orks and the Tyranids because the fertile soil let both xenos breeds reproduce so quickly; a war on every scale from the microscopic (Ork spores vs Tyrannic phages) to the gargantuan (Gargants vs bio-titans).

I just had a flash of a 40k version of Osmosis Jones; Orkmosis Gobz. Going on inside a Warboss' body, the villian being the implanted cells of a Genestealer Kiss.

Agayek:

Thedek:
Dude it just hit me.... Duke Nukem as a space marine. That or he IS one and was thrown into the past by some sort of bad trip through the warp.

Nah, Duke can't be a Space Marine. They get their testicles and hormones surgically removed as part of their "enhanceents". I think the reason in the fluff is so that they are fully devoted to the Emperor instead of their families or somesuch.

Dream wrecker.

If they did want to make another human faction they already have something in the mythology to cover it. Warp storms can leave sectors of space cut off for centuries at the time.

Really disappointed , normally enjoy his stuff, but almost felt some of the comments were plain stupid and even ignorant, how someone can dismiss an entire universe of books, articles, 1000's an 1000's of hours of back ground with out even experiencing even a fraction of it just seems lazy.

Cause he did't even just comment on the game but took a swipe at the whole idea of 40k, used to be into it allot as a kid an still enjoy the books now an then, an just seemed like lazy swipes, which really showed he didt know much about it other than the game an seen a few bits an pieces, as i could poke better more justified holes in the background than he managed to an i like it.

just lazy, dont believe he played the game properly as being 3rd person view was about all it had in common with gears of war . . he's always going on about gow being a chest high wall cover game, YOU CANT EVEN TAKE COVER IN SM, what the actual **** are you on about?

again disappointed, nearly lost a fan for good, but everyone has a bad lazy day at the office.

pick up your game again yahtzee before some quick speaking, gimmicly crude reviewer starts taking lazy swipes at you over the internet. I came for the jokes, i stayed for the honestly harsh but always with at least a hint of truth opinions. if your going to get lazy and take predictable swipes, i can get the jokes else where.

Well, I just beat the game and I enjoyed playing it. The combat was fluid and the balance between ranged and melee was good, switching between them felt natural - better than even god-of-war 3, that and I liked Captain Titus as a protagonist and want to see more of his story. The ending set up a sequel nicely and I'll be buying it if one comes out. Especially if they can fix the main issues - i.e. repetitive enemies, excessive linearity and lame end boss.

TL/DR: Good game mechanics, ok story, poor level design (imo)

I know you'll never do a review of a RTS, but in case you ever do - check you a game called Dawn of War. Warhammer 40K setting, excellent & addictive gameplay. Was a staple diet at any LAN party for ages. I still pick it up from time to time for the WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!

Because the Eldar told the Ethereals to do it, the Eldar has been manipulating the Tau from the day they walked into their merry genocidal war of extinction. Since then the Tau was made to become the poster race for recruiting any race who wants unity at the cost of secretly being manipulated by the Eldar.

source was from Xenology.[/quote]

That just Brings me to my next question... why would the Eldar want that? what's killing a few million human's to them? why do they need to manipulate the Tau into doing that when they can manipulate ork Waaagh's (which are far more effective by the way.)
(the only reason I can think of is that they want the Imperium to start a war against the Tau to wipe them out. but that just raises the question why they don't just let the orks do that.)

Trillovinum:
[quote="gyrobot" post="6.316240.12880117"

Because the Eldar told the Ethereals to do it, the Eldar has been manipulating the Tau from the day they walked into their merry genocidal war of extinction. Since then the Tau was made to become the poster race for recruiting any race who wants unity at the cost of secretly being manipulated by the Eldar.

source was from Xenology.[/quote]

That just Brings me to my next question... why would the Eldar want that? what's killing a few million human's to them? why do they need to manipulate the Tau into doing that when they can manipulate ork Waaagh's (which are far more effective by the way.)
(the only reason I can think of is that they want the Imperium to start a war against the Tau to wipe them out. but that just raises the question why they don't just let the orks do that.)

The Human's sphere is dangerously close to most eldar craftworlds and having the Tau anger the Imperial keeps it strong, better to be used to fight the Necrons and the 'nids until they.

As for the orks they are all but impossible to control even for the eldar for one their resistant to psyker influence they where after all designed to be the perfect blunt assault troopers.

I never liked the plotlines that much. But then again I do play Tyranids and Necrons. The 2 armies with absolutely no personal background whatsoever.
The Necrons no so much, there's always sort of vague backstory to where they came from and such. But with Tyranids, they have nothing to say where they come from except 'somewhere when no-one's gone before (or at least come back from).' Their entire plot is told by the people they face, popping into existence in their first battle, going away when they were defeated, then coming back again. And that's all.

I don't really like the video games that much though. They're just not as satisfying as sitting down for a few days posing, glueing and painting each individual model then setting everything up and gazing at your 'empire' against someone else's.
But that's all of the fun in it, I'm willing to forgive the generic "War, war, war, war, wrarw, arwarw, and more war!" (Or if they're feeling really different; "Man killed other man/alien/different kind of alien, thus single handedly saved his unit from stuff.") plotline for the rest of the hobby.
The only plotlines I have read are the ones which were in the rule books on how to play.

I think the one problem with this entry is the combination of blind hatred with a hefty dose of ignorance. How can you hate a setting you don't know shit about? If it's not your bag, that's fine. But it feels more like you read a two-sentence summary and based your opinion off that.

But I think your biggest sin is this: It wasn't Warhammer 40,000 that created the Space Marine craze (they just hold the trademark on the name), but Aliens (and by extension, Doom and Quake).

I am actually surprised how sad I am to discover that so many of you are still wailing about this. Will Yahtzee have to explain, in detail, every last bit of 40k "lore" that he has been exposed to before you stop calling him uninformed?

Will you be seriously satisfied if next week he comes back and says, "ooh, well, you know, I am clearly an ignorant bastard and thank god that there are those noble men and women who beheld my ignorant hate speech for what it was and deigned to educate me. I see now that I was wrong, and that the Eldar are not space elves but a totally original idea, and that Spehss Mahreens are as noble and valorous as bald eagle shit, and that oversized chainsaws and huge compensatory shoulderpads are both wicked and badass. I will now step down from the internet and let you glorious wunderkinds take over my show"?

OK, OK, that level of sarcasm might be more than adequate. Still, do you see where I'm coming from at all? It is an opinion piece, with more than a hint of troll nutmeg. It is Yahtzee's god-given right to make game developers cry, so why are you so upset that he's stated that he doesn't like something you like? Nobody who previously enjoyed WH40k is going to read this and decide that Yahtzee knows best and throw all their models and Horus Heresy books down a flight of stairs. Just... I don't know, accept that 40k might not be perfect and enjoy it anyway. Please?

Jetpacks and big-ass smash hammers!!! Nuff said.

Major Tom:

ACman:
I am talking about humans.

I don't care about orks pirates/eldar pirates/space marine pirates/chaos pirates.

I am talking about human pirates within human space.

I am talking about fractional separation in government; not within the inquisition, not between unrelated planets, not hive/desert/jungle/factory/death world differences but differences between regions of space that form say trading blocks or defensive coalitions or mini-empires/kindoms who might(would!) have rivalries between each other.

I can't actually see any of that in the question I responded to, all I saw you asking about were pirates. Of which there are plenty.

However the example that comes off the top of my head that comes close to what you are asking now would be the Badab war. Though the majority of the fighting was done by Space Marines so it may not fit your criteria. It began over the proper proceedure for collecting the Imperial Tithe, ultimately leading to Huron seceding from the Imperium. Piracy was a measure used by the secessionists to disrupt trade between the loyalist parties, and the fact that the sector is in a dangerous part of space haven to all manner of scum and villainy on the run from the law.

There is also the Age of Apostasy, which was a giant power struggle between the Administratum and the Ecclesiarchy. This fundamentally altered the separation of powers in the Imperium, gave rise to the Sister of Battle and there has been bad blood between the 2 arms of government since.

Another incident within the ranks of the Imperial Navy is the Gareox Prerogative. It is mentioned a number of times in the BFG background material but hasn't really been expanded upon. But what I can gather is there was a split in the Navy on strategic and tactical lines: Supporters of the Gareox prerogative believed in assault craft and carriers as the primary firepower of the fleet, whereas the old guard favoured big guns and bigger ships. Ultimately this lead to open conflict between the 2 factions, where the Gareox Prerogative was defeated.

Though the last 2 events don't really involve piracy (outside of being a side effect of civil conflict)

God I know your display pic .. its from a megadrive game yes?

Calibretto:

Major Tom:

ACman:
I am talking about humans.

I don't care about orks pirates/eldar pirates/space marine pirates/chaos pirates.

I am talking about human pirates within human space.

I am talking about fractional separation in government; not within the inquisition, not between unrelated planets, not hive/desert/jungle/factory/death world differences but differences between regions of space that form say trading blocks or defensive coalitions or mini-empires/kindoms who might(would!) have rivalries between each other.

I can't actually see any of that in the question I responded to, all I saw you asking about were pirates. Of which there are plenty.

However the example that comes off the top of my head that comes close to what you are asking now would be the Badab war. Though the majority of the fighting was done by Space Marines so it may not fit your criteria. It began over the proper proceedure for collecting the Imperial Tithe, ultimately leading to Huron seceding from the Imperium. Piracy was a measure used by the secessionists to disrupt trade between the loyalist parties, and the fact that the sector is in a dangerous part of space haven to all manner of scum and villainy on the run from the law.

There is also the Age of Apostasy, which was a giant power struggle between the Administratum and the Ecclesiarchy. This fundamentally altered the separation of powers in the Imperium, gave rise to the Sister of Battle and there has been bad blood between the 2 arms of government since.

Another incident within the ranks of the Imperial Navy is the Gareox Prerogative. It is mentioned a number of times in the BFG background material but hasn't really been expanded upon. But what I can gather is there was a split in the Navy on strategic and tactical lines: Supporters of the Gareox prerogative believed in assault craft and carriers as the primary firepower of the fleet, whereas the old guard favoured big guns and bigger ships. Ultimately this lead to open conflict between the 2 factions, where the Gareox Prerogative was defeated.

Though the last 2 events don't really involve piracy (outside of being a side effect of civil conflict)

God I know your display pic .. its from a megadrive game yes?

That or a sega cd game I believe. One of the Dune games. Duke Leto.

Lord_Gremlin:
Hm, I don't think Yahtzee is really familiar with W40K universe. I would agree that game somewhat assumes that player is familiar with the setting and already knows in details who are Ultramarines, what's a Weirdboy etc.
Thing is, it's a good W40K game. Now, it's all depends on your angle on W40K, but it's good at what it does.
Also, it has Ultramarines. The most boring, dull, emotionless Space Marines of all. I was actually surprised just how much emotion they show in game.

Enjoyed this game a lot and still enjoying it now. Multiplayer is fun, let's you play as Chaos.
Ultimately how good this game is is determined by your love W40K and your opinion on Ultrasmurfs.. I mean, Ultramarines.
Honestly, they should have used Space Wolves... Or maybe Chaos marines, something less bland than Ultrasmurfs.

This. I don't read Yahtzee's stuff for a good well balanced opinion, but Yahtzee really didn't have a good enough knowing of the background to make the criticism that he did.

Ah well, I love Space Marine all the more, and THQ did a really good job at making the Warhammer 40K universe come alive.

Siege_TF:

I just had a flash of a 40k version of Osmosis Jones; Orkmosis Gobz. Going on inside a Warboss' body, the villian being the implanted cells of a Genestealer Kiss.

You win, take all of my internets good sir

I read about half of the thread and it gave me aa massive urge to throw my two cents in. Prepare for much TL;DR.

Anyways I became interested in Warhammer after playing Dawn of War (an awesome game in its own right). As such my original point of entry were the Speeusssh Marines, though DoW's Blood Raven chapter was certainly more endearing than Space Marines's Ultrasmurfs the world seemed bland and it took a backseat to the fantastic RTS. Then I caught wind of the Army Painter and boy did that pique my interest. What are all these pre-designed color schemes? Do they mean anything? But before the reasearch even began I settled on the Space Wolves for some (pretty vain)reasons.

Many long nights of scourging the lexicanum and lurking on /tg/ have completely changed my views about the Universe of 40K and its factions, though I still do love the Space Wolves for the delicious unorthodoxy and their hatred of the inquisition. (Also see: Reasonable Marines) I now openly serve the ruinous powers of the warp and proclaim "Death to the False Emporer!" at the top of my lungs, but not the reasons most would. Chaos isn't a bunch of heretic psychopaths for me. There are perfectly reasonable motivations behind those who join the legions of chaos, and the moral duality, uncertainty, of that faction is fascinating to me. Chaos isn't just the crazies, no, chaos is the military veteran focused on his skill and honor in battle (Khorne), the artist who wants to perfect his craft (Slanesh), the politician who wants to convince his electorate to change for the better (Tznetch), or the old mentor who wishes to remain and nurture the next generation with wisdom (Nurgle). And while its quite hyperbolic and often presented as evil, the lures and trappings of chaos are very much an effective analogue for much of our own ambition, and in many ways can be seen as the "good" faction - the one that wants us to transcend our limitations. These are the characters I like to play when roleplaying in the WH40K universe and in no way are they juvenile or a masculine-power fantasy. In case of battle, however, I do always have a Thousands Sons character (funny Space Wolves and Thousand Sons are sworn enemies and my favorite chapters); I like the legion for its use of guile and diplomacy (Again, see: Reasonable Marines), and its my guilty pleasure :P I too can have moments of juvenility and fanatic opposition to the False Emporer!

(Fun fact: I continue to play Space Wolves in DoW because: a)the Chaos faction in the game epitomizes the aspects of chaos I dislike and b)Chaos Space marines in DoW don't play the way my Thousands Sons do, and no paint job'll fix that)

For of you who made it through the dissertation here's a cookie:
Who needs GW when you can make these kinds of minatures?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jerac/5164163964/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jerac/5863679957/in/photostream
(Not Mine)

BREAKING NEWS!!!! YAHTZEE DOESN'T LIKE SOMETHING, more details at eleven

Thedek:
That or a sega cd game I believe. One of the Dune games. Duke Leto.

Close. Duncan Idaho, from the old (first, even?) Dune game made by Cyrotek way back in the day. I played on PC, but I do remember something about a Sega CD version, maybe it was in an AVGN episode or something. But yeah, interesting game, sort of a hybrid between adventure and strategy games.

Edit: Whoops, not Cryotek, it was developed by Cryo Interactive. I haven't been able to get it run with any sort of stability on newer machines. I should run up DOSbox and give it another go.

What are these diligent correspondents talking about? Resistance 1 totally had regenerating health. It used a health bar system, where each health bar regenerated only the damage it took. It was the same health system we saw in the Chronicles of Riddick games. And while I really liked it for that stealth game, I feel it was possibly the worst option for an action packed FPS.

At least in a typical regenerating health FPS, you can take quite a few hits before needing to hide. With the regenerating health bars, you can only take a hit or two before needing to hide, otherwise you lose the bar altogether. The only time you can you can take quite a few hits and not worry is when you know or feel that there should be health kits lying around on the ground. Although, when you died, you would start back at your last checkpoint with full health, so the health system wasn't a problem or anything.

In any case, even in one of the cutscenes for R1, the lady said that when she saw the bullet holes in Hale's shirt, she knew he had gained the Chimeran's regenerative ability. So it wasn't even a gameplay mechanic, he really had regenerating health.

yeah, Warhammer is serious business. There is nothing comedic and over the top about it.

image

PrototypeC:
It is Yahtzee's god-given right to make game developers cry, so why are you so upset that he's stated that he doesn't like something you like? Nobody who previously enjoyed WH40k is going to read this and decide that Yahtzee knows best and throw all their models and Horus Heresy books down a flight of stairs.

I don't think anyone actually cares whether or not Yahtzee enjoys or totally loathes Warhammer 40,000, what rankles is he seems to dismiss it based on silly reasons. Which is his prerogative of course, but as someone with a bully pulpit his opinion is being used to reinforce or even entirely form the opinions of others on the subject.

And since it's pretty clear he doesn't actually know much about the setting and is just dismissing it for superficial reasons like most of the people complaining about 40K on the interwebs, readers who don't know any better are liable to treat his silly and misguided dismissal of the setting as valid. This is what we'd like to hopefully prevent, as much as possible.

Do you have to like Warhammer 40k? Of course not! The aesthetics might not appeal, the themes may be too depressing, you just can't take it seriously because it has chainsaw swords in it, take your pick; you don't even need a firm reason to not like something, if it doesn't resonate it doesn't resonate, and as a fan of 40K I'm perfectly fine with that. If the reason you don't like it though is based on something that isn't true, or something you are taking wildly out of context or otherwise mistakenly applying across the board, who is to say if you actually dislike 40K when you've demonstrated you don't know what you're talking about? If you go on to influence other people through your misguided dislike, how can we know if they'd come to the same conclusions if they were shown a more accurate presentation of the setting instead of your distorted one?

That is my major gripe with this particular rant - I don't really give a toss if anyone loves or loathes 40K, each to his or her own, but it would be a shame if someone out there who would actually enjoy the setting took Yahtzee's word on the subject as gospel and dismissed it out of hand, for a bunch of silly reasons.

Not that anybody's still reading this thread down the line, but...

I loves da 40k, I have 6k of orks here in the house. That said... he's right. Damn him, he's right. Perhaps I wouldn't be so harsh on the setting, but that's me being amused by aggression. (One of the reasons I like Yahtzee, actually.) That said, though, yeah, we probably didn't another GoW clone, and Space Marines ARE the most boring kind of male-power fantasy.

Just my two cents.

I disagree with yahztee on his basis view of warhammer 40k just because he think the whole religious marine thing is dumb(Emperor against religion until he die and after a 10000 years).
If there's something I dislike about the warhammer 40, it would be.
-overprice figure.
-MATT WARD(an ultramarine fanboy and a story fucker)
-the bad ultrasmurf movie.
-hasn't extend the storyline due to gameworkshop's greedy decision.

I liked spacemarine as a game, dealing with the bigger hordes of melee orks was fun and hectic on the hardest difficulty level, taking them headon in the bigger waves is suicide as Yathzee said.
Finding ways to weaken them enough in the short time before they force you into melee was half the fun in the game. Trying to avoid the fire line of or killing a shoota boy that deals pretty consistent damage while surrounded by a angry mob was the other half.
Too bad the campaign lasted that short.
Haven't tried online yet.

HERESY! PURGE THE THREAD NECROMANCER!

OT: I like how 90% of the people in this thread seem to think that the 40K universe is srs bsns. The universe that features space orcs. That paint their cars red so they can go faster. And it works.

Oh crap, this is part of the forums? I thought article replies and the forum were separate.

No, i am aware that the 40k setting is retarded but i love it anyway.... I was more disappointed in him not finding some of the refreshing stuff in the gameplay.... because i did not get the feeling in game that i was dealing with generic shooter #5432. I don't play shooters unless they add something new into the mix (like Vanquisches speed and style)

Spacemarine caught my attention because of the 40k license AND because of the developer being Relic... but only after i tested the demo and liking what i saw i bought it.
Of course the game has it's weaknesses(melee feels really sluggish and does not give a sense of real control) but it actually felt fresh in me finding tactical ways to deal with the really big range fire supported Ork melee waves on hardest.
When the campaign was done i was not happy because i wanted more of the gameplay.

sharpe95th:
Why are any of your surprised the skinny nerdy man who loves fantasy, wears a stupid hat, and has a pretentious beard doesn't like military fiction?

aside from the fact that Warhammer 40K has about as much in common with real military non-fiction as a child does with it... I can't imagine. Seriously Military fiction can be done well if had some fucking realism.

Von Strimmer:
This sounded particularly venemous towards WHK40. I dont like any of it either and will ignore it wherever possibly. Bloody hell though that was a harsh review =P.

Also Gears of War 3 is hands down my game of the year so far.

It wasn't even out yet and you call it your 'game of the year'. Thank fuck some of the people around the internet aren't in charge of anything important otherwise the whole fucking human society would come tumbling down.

Jedihunter4:
Really disappointed , normally enjoy his stuff, but almost felt some of the comments were plain stupid and even ignorant, how someone can dismiss an entire universe of books, articles, 1000's an 1000's of hours of back ground with out even experiencing even a fraction of it just seems lazy.

Did he say that he didn't experience a fraction of it? Because your jumping to conclusions.. you think his opinion is uninformed? Because theres no way he would fucking talk about the series if he hasn't had a good look at it.

ACman:
There's no one to side with. Space Marines are battle-crazed fanatics. Chaos is hell. Orks are well... orks. Tyranids are insectoid monsters. Eldar would exterminate mankind without a second thought if they could. Tau are space communists. Imperial Guard are part of the aforementioned fascist theocratic space empire. Cultists are either alien or chaos mad. Necrons are space-undead-robot-gods or some shit.

Well, there's a few flaws with that summary. First, Space Marines are more like Warrior Monks. If anyone are battle-crazed fanatics, it'd be the Khornate Berserkers.

The Orks don't really have any beef with humanity, either. They just smash and loot and WAAAGH!!, but they'll do that to anyone (including themselves), and it's possible even for their interests to align (albeit temporarily) with humanity's.

The Eldar don't have anything against humanity, per se, either. If they were confronted by something like space liberals, they'd get along just fine. All they have a problem with is the Imperium's militaristic, overly dogmatic, and destructive attitude, as well as its propensity for being torn apart from within by Chaos.

The Tau are... Well, yea, space communists. I quite honestly don't see how that's a bad thing, though. They seem to do it pretty damn well. The main issue with communism is that power corrupts, and corrupt people seek power. The role of leader has to be seen as a civil service, something to be done for the people, and for the society as a whole. Historically, that hasn't happened often, and instead corrupt despots and tyrants end up in power. With the Tau, though, the Ethereals seem to be doing a bang-up job, if you ask me.

The Tyranids, of course, are just hive-minded insectoid parasites, but the higher up and more important a form is in the synapse tree, the more individuality it is awarded, with some breeds like genestealers even capable of full autonomy.

As for Chaos... Well, Chaos can come in many varying types and degrees. The most dangerous and unquestionably evil would likely be Khorne, as anything that instills a propensity towards liberating people's skulls from their bodies can be seen as a bad thing by most accounts. The other three Gods can be followed far more peaceably, though. With Slaanesh, it's just about sensation. Say you've got an Imperial businessman who's secretly a Slaaneshi cultist, but all he really does is dedicate his various sensory acts (be it sadomasochistic sex or just the taste of a fine wine) to Slaanesh. With Tzeentch, it's about knowledge, change, and magic. Again, this can be handled in many degrees, and can be relatively harmless, though it does have a tendency to explode and tear apart the fabric of reality... Lastly, of course, is Nurgle, who covers everything from life to death, from mortality and entropy to immortality, from hope to fear, even love and compassion and family values are covered under his vast rusty umbrella.

To be quite honest, I actually see myself as something of a Child of Grandfather Nurgle. He's way better than the God of the Bible, anyway. If I had to have some kind of God, it'd definitely be Nurgle.

I always thought the emperor should be more like a space-pope. Then there could be multiple human kingdoms/federations/confederacies/compacts.

But no, any difference will be purged by a bunch of insane fanatical jihadist. Bah.

Do you really think so lowly of the Emperor? Comparing him to the Pope, of all people? What an insult. Besides that, though, what does the Emperor have to do with anything anyway? He's on the Golden Throne. As far as I can tell, the "God Emperor" is just the Warp-borne manifestation of the collective will of humanity through the Emperor's subconscious. He's not the one calling any of the shots, though. That would be the High Lords of Terra and the Ecclesiarchy.

Eipok Kruden:
snippity snip.

Yep. The emperor should be "Space Pope".

Space Marines should be Warrior Knights like the (real life) Templars and Hospitaller. Sworn to fight the threats to humanity not humanity itself. (Though they could and would)

And there should be factions of humanity that act like "Space Europe" so I can have "Space Game of Thrones".

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