What Bob says at the end about the hate of it all just making the haters, and the whole starwars geekdom miserable bitter whiny entitled little dicks is pretty much applicable to all things in life. In the last 2 years I have entirely removed myself from two way interaction with such groups (I can't always avoid reading things they write, but I can avoid talking to them directly) simply because their attitudes towards pretty much everything was always so overly negative it literally made it impossible for me to enjoy anything. You can't stay around those kinds of people, listening to the very overly specific reasons why they hate any certain thing you mention without absorbing it and turning around to 'critique' and then hate everything you see.

If you can't let go of the hate, live with the fact that something you once liked is now something you revile, or doesn't meet your (too high) expectations, you make your own life miserable. Not to mention the lives of those you bitch to.

NightmareLuna:

Duffeknol:
I hope even more people watch the Plinkett reviews now thanks to you :)

I tried too, but just like Jar Jar, I could not stand his fucking voice... oh by spongebob, I could not stand his awful, awful, stereotypical voice.

I listened to at least 7 minutes, and he made sense... But that could not keep his voice away. :(

Please do a cover of it, haha. ^^

Thats always been my problems too. Mr. Plinkett, to me, embodies through voice the very very worst fanboys/girls of just about anything. I dunno, i could probably listen to him if he was expanding our minds, telling me something interesting, or maybe even doing a review of the OT. But no he isn't he is using his vast knowledge of filmmaking and the art form it is to tear down a, at worst, substandard movie.

I maintain, although i'm not a gen 0 fan of star wars and therefore my opinion doesn't matter, that the only things wrong with them in comparison to the OT is that it wasn't new. It didn't wow because it couldn't wow. sci-fi was already deeply ingrained into the social consciousness and following the matrix, the rise of anime, video games and 20 years of yearning and waiting and jokes, spoofs, parodies and faniverse building, even an awesome one of kind movie wouldn't have been enough because all that baggage would have dragged it down. Also do you ever notice that kids these days can watch the PT with the same slightly open mouthed awe that gen 0 fans watched the OT with 15-20 years ago? ever think there might be something to that?

Bob just sounds like a defeated man. So do all the guys agreeing with him, even on its own merits the film sucks. I don't care about the franchise far as I'm concerned the Lucas hate is pointless (i agree with MovieBob on that).

Just be happy that we got some good star wars and forget the bad.

Do not see the movie your encouraging the worst in Hollywood trends that MovieBob was just complaining about on Big Picture.

Indignator:

Thomas Guy:
Also, Return of the Jedi isn't as good as everyone remembers.

Agreed. The whole sequence on Endor is atrocious.

i take offense to this. if you want to slam the ewoks and stormtrooper having useless armor go right ahead, but that entire sequence is not atrocious. The final showdown of Luke and Vader is best lightsaber fight in the entire series. And i hold that the rebel vs empire fleet engagement is the best space fight ever put to film.

rayen020:

Indignator:

Thomas Guy:
Also, Return of the Jedi isn't as good as everyone remembers.

Agreed. The whole sequence on Endor is atrocious.

i take offense to this. if you want to slam the ewoks and stormtrooper having useless armor go right ahead, but that entire sequence is not atrocious. The final showdown of Luke and Vader is best lightsaber fight in the entire series. And i hold that the rebel vs empire fleet engagement is the best space fight ever put to film.

I agree with Rayen. Endor atrocious? Either your standards are set way too high or you are exaggerating to try and make a point.

You know what makes Phantom Menace about 10000% more awesome (especially if you're a D&D/RPG geek)? Darths and Droids: http://darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0001.html

I disagree with you, in the fact that the Plinkett review deconstructs the movie in terms of screenwriting/film conceits - characterization, plot, story arc, general sanity. While he did use the original movies as a touchstone, the points he makes are universal for anyone who wants to critique, understand, or develop the genre of film making.

You can't hold time as a factor, because people have been waiting decades for The Avengers, Captain America, The LOTR Trilogy et al, and those were lauded for the most part (some people are going to be bitter anyway).

For example, when they announced that they were making a movie on the Hellblazer franchise, I really welcomed the idea - a neo-noir movie about a fast-talking magical con-artist using the duplicitous nature of demons and dark entities against them could be really interesting. Then Keanu Reeves signed on and I sorta feared for the worst. Then I saw the movie, and Constantine was basically Van Helsing with a more modern spin. I raged for a little while, and then I saw it for what it was - a fairly average fantasy action romp with uneven story elements and slightly wooden acting. That's an example based on the reality of the situation.

Also, I have two nine-year-old little brothers who love Star Wars. They love the Clone Wars animated stuff. I showed them the new trilogy, and they didn't like either of the first two - they were too long, the fights were cool looking, but they didn't like that the droids were useless, and they love the original trilogy. Take what you want from that.

As someone who kinda likes Star Wars and saw Episode I,II,III before IV,V,VI. I must say I never liked Episode I, maybe it's cause I was 9 when I saw it but I just preferred II and up more then I. I do get the fans upset over Lucas changing the originals (Because I would like to see the originals and compare to the new ones), and I don't get why he doesn't' just do that if he is pandering to fans. But great review bob, but a eye strain isn't worth watching it again (Beauty and the Beast was barely worth it).

Well, good points Bob, but I think you missed one thing: fans aren't pissy at The Phantom Menace JUST because it was pretty crummy and failed to live up to expectations, but because it and the prequel trilogy it started made a concerted effort to do things that actively damaged the Star Wars universe that people loved. The whole "midochlorian" bullshit changed the Force from an omnipresent cosmic energy that "binds the galaxy together" to bugs in your blood that give you psychic powers, the prequel rendition of Anakin ensured that Darth Vader, for decades the most menacing, imposing and awesome villain in cinema history, could never be taken seriously again and it frankly retconned a whole lot of stuff from the original trilogy into stupid crap and it was all in canon! It's more than disappointed expectations, it was a violation of something fans held very dear.

Additionally, I think you're wrong in claming that "nothing could have lived up to fan expectations". OK, you're probably right about nothing being able to meet the expectations, but The Phantom Menace felt like it wasn't even TRYING to recapture the magic of the original trilogy- there were NO relatable characters (while the cast of Star Wars were iconic figures- the farmboy hero, the dashing space rogue, the beautiful but defiant princess), the plot was intergalactic political bullshit (where the originals were a straightforward clash of good and evil that defined the space opera) and it was just very badly made in general. It's not that it could have been better, but that it could have been better easily. "Disappointment" doesn't begin to describe it.

But yes, you're right about the need to stop the endless, meaningless bashing.

That said, I'm fairly sure most of us stopped bashing it years ago. Up until Plinkett came along I thought I had said everything there was to be said about what was wrong with the film years ago. And then he proved me wrong and showed me stuff that was wrong with the prequels that I hadn't even considered.

But eh, Plinkett aside (seeing how he kind of rekindled it with some people), I honestly don't know anyone who's been non-stop bashing the prequels at any given opportunity since 1999. Show me these people Bob!

rayen020:

Indignator:

Agreed. The whole sequence on Endor is atrocious.

i take offense to this. if you want to slam the ewoks and stormtrooper having useless armor go right ahead, but that entire sequence is not atrocious. The final showdown of Luke and Vader is best lightsaber fight in the entire series. And i hold that the rebel vs empire fleet engagement is the best space fight ever put to film.

By Endor sequence I mean the scenes that take place on Endor (or more correctly the Forest Moon of Endor). The space battle was excellent and the Vader/Palpatine/Luke scenes are the saving grace of the film.

CitizenV:

I agree with Rayen. Endor atrocious? Either your standards are set way too high or you are exaggerating to try and make a point.

Maybe I am exaggerating a little bit. Nonetheless I dislike most of it. Ewoks are more annoying than Gungans (though I don't mind the concept of the Ewoks defeating the Stormtroopers - David and Goliath and all that); Harrison Ford plays a Flanderized Han Solo, which includes the completely unnecessary "I love you/I know" reference (an early example of regurgitation of things from previous movies which was on full display in the prequels and Indiana Jones 4); tone varies significantly between wacky hijinks (an Ewok gets tangled in his own slungshot) and deathly serious (an Ewok gets blasted to death and another mourns him with tragic music swelling). I could go on about other things (C3PO gets confused for a god cliche, the pointlessness of the speeder bike chase) but I think you get the idea.

Pedro The Hutt:
That said, I'm fairly sure most of us stopped bashing it years ago. Up until Plinkett came along I thought I had said everything there was to be said about what was wrong with the film years ago. And then he proved me wrong and showed me stuff that was wrong with the prequels that I hadn't even considered.

But eh, Plinkett aside (seeing how he kind of rekindled it with some people), I honestly don't know anyone who's been non-stop bashing the prequels at any given opportunity since 1999. Show me these people Bob!

I think most fans had moved on from the Prequels in a reasonable amount of time, deciding they were mediocre and moved on with their lives and the wider and better written (and more coherent) universe beyond the movies...but Lucas keeps dragging open old wounds and pulling all us fans back to the films. Re-releases, edits, new editions, comments about 'what really happened', how on earth is that gonna be revived by the majority of Star Wars fans who were disappointed by your prequel films and just want to forget them. Just about the only time I read about anger over the films is in reaction to something that Lucas has said or come up with, not a random fan posting their seething, life consuming rage at all things Episode 1-3 related.

It's not so much that Fans have been bitter for 13 years, as it's fans keep trying to move on and Lucas keeps bringing up all the things that the fanbase gets enraged over instead of letting sleeping dogs lie.

Sure, you're right. It isn't the worst movie of all time. I agree that episode II was worse, but for different reasons then the ones you stated. However, shouldn't we hold art to higher standards then not being absolute trash? Shouldn't we have a little more integrity to insist that we don't want to sit through absolute crap, especially because we know that Lucas can do better then that? I hate fan boy whining and moaning and self entitlement just as much as you, but shouldn't we draw the line of acceptance of mediocrity somewhere?

TsunamiWombat:

CronoT:

unacomn:
Phantom Menace is probably the one I disliked the least, until a few years later, I kinda liked it. What really killed the SW prequels for me was Anakin becoming Vader mostly because he acted like 12 year old on the internet who couldn't find any rational reason behind his actions and statements, so he started to throw tantrums, threats and called everyone a Nazi... then he killed a bunch of kids for the fun of it.

I could stomach JarJar, he was sometimes funny, I could stand little Any, I could overlook the plotholes, but making that wuss Vader was just painful. That retroactively poisoned the prequels for me, to the point where all I feel for them is apathy.

I think that the point of the prequel movies is that people who you set up as some long sought Messiah type character often as not end up being either a disappointment, or end up with entitlement issues and seriously screw over everyone around them.

As for Anakin/Vader, the general consensus about his prophecy of The Chosen One WAS fulfilled in the overall narrative, since by the end of Episode III, the Jedi HAD started an inexorable slide into fascism and what technically does amount to a form of theocracy. The evidence trotted out most often is when Mace Windu declared that Palpatine had to die, because he was too dangerous. In the context of the Light Side/Dark Side ethos, that would have pushed Mace Windu to the Dark Side, and the cycle would have simply repeated all over again.

Lending a sort of emotional and moral complexity to a kids movie YES IT'S A KIDS MOVIE DEAL WITH IT and a movie by George Lucas I think just doesn't exist. Windu had to kill Palpatine because Anakin had to kill Windu because Anakin had to take that step from mere pyschological dissidence to outright murdermurdermurderface, and Windu provided the foil for that. It wasn't the Jedi themselves who were corrupt - their sin was probably at worst being completly out of touch and ignorant, which is by no means a minor thing - but that the entire system of the Republic was corrupt - which made the ham fisted democracy good, monarchy bad! nonsense of the third act of ROTS all the more facepalmy.

In my opinion the best Star Wars material produced in the last decade or so is and remains Genndy Tartokovsky's Clone War's shorts, which 'coincidentally' consist primarily of dramatic action sequences with little to no characterization or dialogue - with the exception of materials dealing with Anakin which demonstrate a far better descent into angst and pride fueled rage far better than the movies did (it also provides a far superior characterization of General Greivous and frankly just makes him awesome and menacing as opposed to the comedic charicture of a menacing villain we're provided with in ROTS without any leadup or introduction)

I'll admit the animations are poorly voiced, drawn, and animated, yet their choreography still conveys an impact on par or exceeding the movies.

It also provides interesting context for your claim that Windu was slipping to the darkside (it's worth noting that Windu's particular saber style and practices require aggression and 'enjoying fighting' which have historically claimed everyone who utilized the Style to the darkside) because, when confronted with the then far more menacing Greivous, rather than tangling with him or trying to rescue Chancellor Palpatine, Windu -crushes his chest cavity with the force-, the equivilant of a force choke at least if not outright crushing someones heart with the force.

This scene was added in by Tartokovsky to make Grievous match up to the wheezing invalid we're presented with in the movies, by the way, not the other way around - work on the Cartoon was done under an info blackout from Lucas arts (because many details were still in flux at that time).

And finally just for Funsies, here's Mace Windu soloing an army.

Goddamn, these are awesome. So long since Ive seen em, had forgotten most of the fights! These animations was for me proof of what Star Wars can be when it wants to.

OT: I liked "the phantom menace" when I was young, and I still like it. I prefer to look at the movie as an deeper introduction to the Star Wars universe, in contradiction to "a science fiction movie with laser swords".

FFHAuthor:

I think most fans had moved on from the Prequels in a reasonable amount of time, deciding they were mediocre and moved on with their lives and the wider and better written (and more coherent) universe beyond the movies...but Lucas keeps dragging open old wounds and pulling all us fans back to the films. Re-releases, edits, new editions, comments about 'what really happened', how on earth is that gonna be revived by the majority of Star Wars fans who were disappointed by your prequel films and just want to forget them. Just about the only time I read about anger over the films is in reaction to something that Lucas has said or come up with, not a random fan posting their seething, life consuming rage at all things Episode 1-3 related.

It's not so much that Fans have been bitter for 13 years, as it's fans keep trying to move on and Lucas keeps bringing up all the things that the fanbase gets enraged over instead of letting sleeping dogs lie.

I very much agree with this. Most of us want to move on, but George Lucas isn't satisfied with just destroying the prequel story of Star Wars, he's actually going back and destroying the original trilogy with every damned re-release. I wouldn't care about the prequels at all if not for his horrendous and unnecessary retcons to the source material.

There is so much evidence that George is doing this on purpose, as though he wants to bury the original trilogy; possibly due to resentment towards his ex-wife who played a role in making them what they are. Lucas strikes me as the passive aggressive type like that. I can't think of a bigger middle finger to the OT than "midichlorians". If he truly loved his creation of Star Wars, he wouldn't be doing half of everything he's done in the last 15 years.

Have to disagree about the light saber fights. They feel completely sterile in the prequels and lack any real tension. They look more like a ballet instead of a battle.

The Phantom Menace is a terrible film through and through, though shockingly, Attack of the Clones manages to be worse with one of the worst romances ever written and even worse acting/ directing.

Frankly, the only good thing the Phantom Menace is for was birthing the Plinkett reviews, depicting the many layers of failure the film has.

There is some sense in "taking the higher road", but it's hard to do so when so many mediocre pieces of Star Wars media are constantly being pushed out, not to mention unwanted 3D re-releases of terrible films and unnecessary/ borderline insane re-editing to the original trilogy.

Just because it was impossible for this movie to live up to everyone's expectations, that doesn't mean they couldn't have still made a decent movie. Whether Phantom Menace is the most terrible thing ever made or not, it is still lazy sub-par film-making (or at least lazy sub-par storytelling). Bad acting, bad composition, plot holes galore, bad script, bad casting, and non-existent character development. No one care about Qui-gon Jinn, no one cares about Amidala.

And as far as the CGI goes,how many movies like "Chronicle" need to to come out before people acknowledge the reality that good character development will always outshine production values? Compared to Phantom Menace, it had a paltry budget of $15 million and was able to weave 100x more compelling narrative. Phantom Menace isn't the scourge of the earth, but it is reprehensibly lazy. With massive amounts of money and resources, they still couldn't tell a good story or even an interesting one.

Not a Star Wars fan. But from my perspective, people are angry because George Lucas messed up their favorite fantasy fiction.

It would not be so bad if it was just a "bad movie", but when he added the midichlorians rubbish, among other things, retconning the lore in the process. He crossed the line.

He is not building on the original trilogy, he is gutting them.

On another note, IMHO these pre-sequals should not never have been made as their existence basically spoils one of the biggest plot twist in the original trilogy. So not only do the pre-sequals mess up the lore, it also spoils the enjoyment of original films.

And of course, the horrible script, acting and directing in the pre-sequals as pointed out in the Plinkett reviews definitely isn't helping things.

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-things-star-wars-fans-need-to-accept-about-george-lucas/

Scrumpmonkey:
On a side note would anyone like a Pizza Roll? I suddenly have a mean urge for Pizza Rolls.

Did you say "Pizza Rolls?"

I liked Phantom Menace the least of the prequels, but watching it again in theaters, I had fun.

I saw the prequels when I was younger when I wasn't into film analysis so I was pretty neutral on them, but god the acting pissed me off even then.

That said, I think Bob is missing the point of the big picture. It's what every series/franchise comes down to.

1. There are people with polarizing opinions who may/may not have severely irrational hatred of the films.
2. There are people with more mild opinions.

People who hate the Star Wars prequels can be either or the two.

I remember when he wrote "It's time to forgive George Lucas." And still hold the same opinion, he doesn't need to be forgiven, he doesn't even need to be apologized to, he doesn't need to hated as a person. We can just dislike his artistic decisions and his revisionism over works that he had less involvement in.

For comparison. It upsets me that Avatar receives universal acclaim for special effects. Don't know if it has a better plot than Phantom Menace, but it certainly angers me as much it did the SW fans at the time of PM's release. But I don't hate David Cameron, he's made some great films (Aliens, both Terminators, etc).

I have to say I was never angry about PM, just truly, deeply disappointed. I saw it in cinema when I was maybe 12 or 13 with my mom having grown up on the VHS releases of the original trilogy and leaving the theatre I can remember thinking...'Why am I not happy?'.

I would be angrier with George Lucas I think but for valentines my fiancee got me the DVD release that included the original cinematic releases for 4-6 so I remain safe from his meddling!

LobsterFeng:

Oskamunda:
Poison...I see what you did there.

Also, thank you very much for putting up that image of SEBASTIAN SHAW as Anakin...YUB NUB!

(Although, I do think it might hurt your argument to just let it go...)

Not related to the video, but can I ask you where you avatar comes from?

I made it from the anime series Maria†Holic...this is Miyamae midstride one of her lesbo fantasies.

richard misiak:
I never thought the film was that bad, and i maintain hat the lightsaber duel at the end is the finest one from the entire saga

That's hardly impressive though as the lightsaber fighting in all of the films is atrocious. Wahat with the cringe-worthy duel in EPIV and the fight when Palpatine is confronted by Windu being somewhat easy to surpass.

Sure, PM wasn't as bad the second time I watched it, having sufficiently lowered my expectations.

That said, the movie is still at least 17 different types of arse. And that's being generous, I'm grouping a lot of different types of arse together to get a number as low as 17.

I have to say I'm pretty happy I never had the fan rage problem, I was introduced to the original Star Wars only a couple of years after the Prequels came out, so I was completly oblivious to all the glaring flaws and shortcomings, yay ignorance. (I was too young to care)

And now? I just look at it with a sense of humor, hell it's one of my favorite Rifftrax :)
In fact I had an awesome idea, put the Rifftrax audio on my MP3 player and watch Ep.1 Rifftrax IN 3D! Maybe not worth it, but it would be neat to see if I could do that.

I remember seeing The Phantom Menace around when it debuted in theaters.
And I could remember how confused and bored I was, but I did not hate the movie, because being a stupid 15 year old, I thought the CGI was cool. However, this was the first Star Wars movie I did not bother to even try to watch again; the times I did see it again were entirely incidental (usually on TV during a marathon or when I was trapped being bored at my grandparents').

Now, it's clear to me how poorly written it is and how it was used to merely make Lucas a boatload of money. Remaking it in 3D? Oh c'mon, combining a bland movie (which today, is more polarizing rather than beloved) with a largely useless gimmick? How the hell is this NOT just a shameless money-grab?

That said, from what I've heard, there is no practical reason to see this movie again in theaters; just buy a DVD and watch that instead. It's less of a headache.