Jimquisition: The Positive Side of Mass Effect 3's Ending Drama

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mjc0961:
Interesting thoughts. I still didn't like the ending, though. :(

MonkeyPunch:

MiracleOfSound:
never promised you a different ending to the one you got.

[edit] someone enlighten me: what ending was promised and where?
(sounds a bit strange off the bat - divulging an ending to a game before it's release...)

Well, let's just put it this way:


If you need proof that he actually said that: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/10/mass1525-effect-3-cas5ey-fdsafdhudson-interviewae.aspx?PostPageIndex=2

Ok, re-read that quote and tell me where he says you won't be picking from ending A,B,or C. He just says that you won't be able to say which ending you got, which is true because you directly choose which ending is your ending.

Stupid episode. Rubbish topic. I vote he makes a new one where he spends the last 5 minutes doing the macarena. I am a fan, I made this show successful. APPEASE ME!

Well im looking on the positive side now XD

Thanks for the video, that was a great episode.
Thank God for Jim.

This...is a really good way to view the whole Mass Effect uproar.
I was starting to get upset with all the complaining but now I feel better. Good job, Jim :D

Fr]anc[is:
I was honestly expecting you to just troll and flame bait for 5 minutes. Thank you for not doing that.

He already did that once on youtube.

artanis_neravar:

mjc0961:
Interesting thoughts. I still didn't like the ending, though. :(

MonkeyPunch:

[edit] someone enlighten me: what ending was promised and where?
(sounds a bit strange off the bat - divulging an ending to a game before it's release...)

Well, let's just put it this way:


If you need proof that he actually said that: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/10/mass1525-effect-3-cas5ey-fdsafdhudson-interviewae.aspx?PostPageIndex=2

Ok, re-read that quote and tell me where he says you won't be picking from ending A,B,or C. He just says that you won't be able to say which ending you got, which is true because you directly choose which ending is your ending.

I think YOU should re-read that quote. He said that there won't be a situation where you can pick A, B, C and name them.

We can name them.

Or we can give a quote where they promise 16 different endings. Even if you consider 3 Red endings ("Good", Bad, Vaporization) and 2 blue endings, that's 6 endings total (5 + 1 green).

We're not angry because we didn't get the ended we wanted.

We're angry because we didn't get an ending.

Proverbial Jon:
We're not angry because we didn't get the ended we wanted.

We're angry because we didn't get an ending.

Dude that would require people to actually understand why we're angry. It's much easier to use strawman arguments to get a source of cheap jokes and videos.

Abedeus:

Fr]anc[is:
I was honestly expecting you to just troll and flame bait for 5 minutes. Thank you for not doing that.

He already did that once on youtube.

Do you have a link?

Great episode, Jim. That made me look a little more kindly on the whole ME3 ending discussion. Kuddo's to you for at least trying to find a bright side to it.

But, mentioning tvtropes is an incredibly evil act, Jim, you magnificent bastard.

Captcha: words of wisdom
Hmm, how apt.

So how many people stopped 30 seconds in and looked up the Jimquisition on TV Tropes before watching the rest?

it is funny that jimquisition defended bioware and blamed "the fans", again.
"you can never satisfy the fans".

another funny part is, today's american media like gamespot really likes trying to show bioware as innocent in every stage, and jim seems like following that trend.

at least he didn't called the critics of the game as "underdeveloped homophobes".

ZeroMachine:
You know, the entire stink about the ME3 ending has had me royally pissed off. Not that I hated it, but that it turned a huge chunk of the gaming community into one gigantic collective whiny bitch.

This?

This made me feel a lot better about it.

if you criticize the most popular game of the year in america, it will lead to some new american gamers call you as "whiny bitch".

that's why we don't get good things.

I've already written 6 new and entirely different endings for myself which do not include Space Jesus or colour coded explosions. Now I'm happy
:-)

artanis_neravar:
That doesn't say you won't have to choose between ending A, B, or C just that you won't be trying to figure out which one that you got.

What was said, bold-faced, was that the endings were bucking the two typical kinds of ending: Unchanging and End-Game Decision style. It's true to a degree, by the fact that it's both a straight-up Deus Ex-style End-Game Decision ending, with such little variation as to make the endings almost Unchanging. It honest to God smacks of Poochie from The Simpsons.

irishda:

This is kind of why Jim Sterling made the point in an earlier article that gamers who aren't considered "hardcore", who don't pay attention to who makes what, are smarter than the more active crowd. How many times have I read promises from devs about "what this game was going to do" or "how blown away gamers would be"? It's all hype from people who truly believe it's not hype because this is their baby, their project.

In the end it's all grand ideals tempered by finite resources, and no game ever lives up to the hype that the pre-gaming communities pile onto it. I can only hope this is a lesson to many Mass Effect fans. Take what people say about anything, not just games but movies, books, shows, anything, with a grain of salt until you experience it for yourself.

I see a lot of people complain about what they were promised, but how many people complain who didn't listen to any promises?

First of all, thank you for insulting my intelligence.

Secondly, I am familiar with the thesis in question, and I'd like to tackle your use of it here:

- The core of the thesis is that the utilitarian nature of Free-to-Play nickel and dime purchases are more money savvy than buying full retail games.

- It was also largely a defense of those who derive enjoyment from these kinds of games in the face of scorn from the "Hardcore" crowd, which has, to my knowledge across 5 significant gaming websites, not been the case in this issue.

- A trait which Jim pointed to as intelligent on the part of "Casual" gamers is that they take more ownership of their experience with the games, as opposed to letting Head Office dictate the course of their fun. You know. The thing that this whole issue revolves around?

- And while all of this is well and good, his thesis weighed heavily on the aspects of a game's gameplay, not its narrative. He many times used the parable of leveling up on a Facebook game alongside leveling up in Final Fantasy to point out that there is nothing inherently superior in one method of enjoying a game over another.

And now on to the "Grain of Salt" comment. Bioware, until recently, had earned the kind of respect that few developers truly do. They earned their consumers' expectations by meeting them time and time again. It is why it pains so many people to have the mountain of problems with the ending that they do.

In essence, it's a...

...Of both Bioware's fans, and the company themselves. They are better than the ending to Mass Effect 3. They know it. And if you look past the publicity and pundits, you can see that Bioware is being ripped apart by EA.

And if you'd like to discuss the philosophy of "If you think everything is sh*t, you'll never be disappointed", we can do this all day, brother.

While I love the show, and genuinely respect Jim... He really needs to stop strawmaning the Fallout fans who didn't like Fallout 3.

My issues with the game had nothing to do with it being in first person. Would I have preferred an isometric view? Of course, but I was fine with it being a first person RPG. The problem is that it was poorly written, and shallow. When you compare it to the depth of the original two games, it just falls flat in almost every way.

I don't see why I should have any reason to complain about the ending of your episode, Jim. Unlike a certain game developer, you didn't advertise to me that my input would change the course of it, or that it could end in a multitude of different conclusions based on my choices.

You buying into the whole "you-are-only-upset-because-you-didn't-get-a-happy-ending" straw man, however, that is a different story.

The only problem with thumbing your nose at your fanbase is they are the one's with the money, and will buy every stupid plastic toy, poster, soft drink with their hero/game/etc plastered all over it. An easy gravy train to a mountain of cash. Once you betray your fickle fan base they'll turn on you like a mad dog.

Fr]anc[is:

Abedeus:

Fr]anc[is:
I was honestly expecting you to just troll and flame bait for 5 minutes. Thank you for not doing that.

He already did that once on youtube.

Do you have a link?

http://www.destructoid.com/raging-mass-effect-3-fans-do-something-for-charity-223811.phtml

Don't know why I thought I saw it on youtube. Beats me.

If this is not a troll bait by a "professional journalist" then I don't know what is.

Oh dude, way to dodge the problem :D
You don't give a shit - great so from neutral point of view, do you believe that the ending is anywhere around the same lvl as the rest of the Bioware usual scriptwriting?
And you have to realize that ME was something new and exciting, unlike bad ending in Final Fantasies (where each game is pretty much stand alone product), this one craps over much much more spend time.

You the funny thing is it's not that hard to do endings that tie everything together and explain how the players actions affected the world. All you need is a series of pictures of what you're talking about. And a narrator (preferably of the Ron Pearlman variety) describing what's going on. It worked very well in Fallout, Arcanum, and Dragon Age Origins, I don't see why they couldn't have done that here.

Example

That's all you need.

The Jimprocess.

>Take popular topic.
>View it from different perspective and understand it in a way people haven't thought of before.
>Rant about it while being incredibly sexy.
>The world is now in a better place.
>???? (in this case, get all that sweet, sweet escapist money by posting it in video form)
>PROFIT!!!

I agree that the take back Mass Effect people are bat-shit insane. Though I really don't agree that such craziness is good for the industry. People looking in from the the outside will see that while many of the crazies complaining are adults playing the video games, they will see them as adults that have problems because they are adults that are blubbering like school children with hurt knees.

So there will probably be a new campaign against gaming with the slogan, "Adults that dedicate themselves to gaming become mental childish whiners."

Abedeus:
http://www.destructoid.com/raging-mass-effect-3-fans-do-something-for-charity-223811.phtml

Don't know why I thought I saw it on youtube. Beats me.

If this is not a troll bait by a "professional journalist" then I don't know what is.

Oh that, yes I saw that. That and all the other ME3 troll stuff was really bothering me. I figured Jim hates everything else about the industry, its odd he'd support this bullshit.

Abedeus:

http://www.destructoid.com/raging-mass-effect-3-fans-do-something-for-charity-223811.phtml

Don't know why I thought I saw it on youtube. Beats me.

If this is not a troll bait by a "professional journalist" then I don't know what is.

I really don't know why he is on the side of Bioware every time, and protecting Mass Effect against players that disliked the game.

Is it a part of "being cynical", if so, I wish he also was cynical towards the companies.

Is it just to increase ratings by receiving more hatemails? As I said, I don't know.

The reasons why we didn't like the ending: http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/bt/aj/topreasons/34623-why-we-hate-me3s-ending
And no, the reason is not because of we are homophobes (as some Bioware fans continously describe the people that criticize the game)

I've been enjoying all the drama.

I finally broke down and YouTube'd the ending and, well, I gotta say, I can understand the outrage of Mass Effect fans.

It was trying to be profound, but that was its biggest failing, since thermodynamics tells us that perfect order in a system is nihilism, which is not something life of any form should aspire to, or at least it is unsustainable if it does.

Eric the Orange:

Huh, that's odd, it wasn't like that last week. Some kind of administrator wizardry is at foot methinks.

"A Wizard Did It" is always a safe bet.

Jimothy Sterling:

If you guys crack this case, you get to find out where Jesus' body is buried.

Trick question. He's living in my attic.

Incomer:
Oh dude, way to dodge the problem :D
You don't give a shit - great so from neutral point of view, do you believe that the ending is anywhere around the same lvl as the rest of the Bioware usual scriptwriting?
And you have to realize that ME was something new and exciting, unlike bad ending in Final Fantasies (where each game is pretty much stand alone product), this one craps over much much more spend time.

"Not giving a shit" is not a neutral perspective.

Abedeus:

http://www.destructoid.com/raging-mass-effect-3-fans-do-something-for-charity-223811.phtml

Don't know why I thought I saw it on youtube. Beats me.

If this is not a troll bait by a "professional journalist" then I don't know what is.

While it looks like trolling, I see it as a professional response that is stating the facts.

Yeah, the whiners donated money to a charity, but then they tooted their own horn, "look at us, aren't we special. You people are all ugly for not singing our praises".

Jim was in the right with that article. The ME3 ending whiners were using the charity drive as a point to show that they weren't entitled and then they turned around and demanded Destructoid report about it, in a sense "entitled" to a report.

Zachary Amaranth:

Anyhow, this is a pretty good point. People are pissed because they are so invested. That really is important.

They're also pissed because Bioware outright lied to them about what to expect. They didn't say the ending would be mysterious and deep, requiring deep meditation (and DLC) to discern. They claimed it would be an ending that wraps up your specific mass effect and give closure for the series.

Obviously that didn't happen, and while I find the ending to be one of the funniest damned things I've seen so far this year, I can certainly relate to people being pissed off. They were just told a massive pork pie.

I don't know - liked the episode and all, but one point is somewhat sticking in my craw - I was rather impressed with the "donate to charity to protest" route that the Retake ME3 people went as being the opposite of infantile. At the very least, even if the effort to get the ending turned into something that resembles closure fails, a good thing has been done by way of the money that will help Child's Play do their good work. Granted, the term "Retake" would be asinine and a sign of sure entitlement by those seeking this change IF it wasn't a play on the words of the advertising campaign launched by EA to promote the game. There is one thread on the Bioware forums that is acting as something of the "master thread" collection of the whole movement that is actually very grounded in respectful dialog about the issue, but it's also true that some people are letting their emotional reaction (and I sympathize with them even as I shake my head, because I too have found myself in the stages of grief) get a bit out of control in public. Flame war never changes, I guess.

I'll be honest, I was a little surprised by the ambiguous disregard shown this episode when Jim has been outspoken against some of the other antics of EA and others inflicting hardship on customers - and I would consider withholding the ending (if there is one) for ransom of a DLC price tag a hardship equal to some of those other issues. Nevertheless, we're all going to have to wait and see on this one and it certainly does show the growth of the medium when this type of reaction can be provoked.

I would be inclined to agree with your point if I was actually able to hear the point over the sound of grating nails over a chalkboard over pronouncing it Con-Trov-o-See, instead of Con-tra-verse-ee

Speeka dah english ya mook!

In all seriousness, Actually on the point bringing up Batman brings up a good point. Where is the backlash at the Arkham city ending? How dare rocksteady allow the joker to "die". How dare they arm batman with a sword at one point and a friggen gun of all things (granted its a pulse rifle, but still) So everybody together now, lets start a campaign to demand Arkham city be remade all together because its not how I think it should be.

Nice episode, I think Jim's right, so thanks for that!
well, not really supprising though, considering it's Jim we're talking about :D

On the whole ME3 ending discussion:
image

I suppose this applies to both parties though...
What I don't get is why everyone seems to think that the only reason for people complaining is: "they didn't get the ending they wanted!" disregarding that the fans are mostly complaining about different things.

No, I'm not going to list them again, it's been done in thousands of different topics all across the internet already, and it's always ignored. Instead of actually discussing points that make sense people always turn to making fun of, what isn't more than just a simple oppinion someone shared, that being the nature of discussions on the internet though.

A: *reasoning for why the ending is bad, inconsistent, not what promised, blahdibluhdiblah...*
B: "yeah, the ending was a pretty bad piece of shitty crap shit fart piss!"
C: " (Quote B) It's not all ponies and rainbows all the time, duh hfglbdahgdifn!!!!!11111"
---> A get's drowned in a flamewar betwee B and C
once that's cools down, it all starts over...

Doesn't anyone else see the vicious circle this whole discussion has turned into?

Oh hold on, I'm just going to quote myself on this:

... that being the nature of discussions on the internet...

Thank you for your attention,
Sesambrot out.

On a side note;
why is this vastly different from Batman Arkham City's ending you ask?
Well, basically because they didn't promise you to deliver pure awesomeness to your doorstep, then shat in a paperbag, set it on fire and rang your doorbell, that's why! :P

MonkeyPunch:
You know there's an "old school" thing you can do if you don't like a stories outcome. It's called "fan fiction".

I challenge any of the Mass Effect 3 whiners to write some and then have others scrutinise it.
Better yet I challenge all the Mass Effect 3 whiners to agree on one ME3 fan fiction ending outcome. Let's just see how far they get with that :)

To be honest it'd be an improvement on their time usage and much more productive than making silly and ridiculous groups like the Retake ME thing.

It's actually interesting that you mentioned this.

Last summer, I was running a Mass Effect game for my spouse (who hadn't played ME before). My spouse rolled up a Shepard, and I played the various crew members, and ran a game that followed the plots of ME1 and ME2.

So, as the Collector Base exploded, my spouse wasn't done - so I got to make up ME3 nine months early. Using spoilers, rumors, and that first trailer (and the announcement about the Prothean DLC) I wrote my own ME3 story.

Obviously there were some major differences. Particularly since the whole Crucible thing was kept under wraps surprisingly well. Also, I was sure that Arrival, the ME1 DLC, and Tali's recruitment mission were foreshadowing the use of exploding solar systems as a battle tactic to eliminate Reapers.

Anyway, the point is that I already HAD "my" ending to ME3. I wrote it. And I think it was pretty good.

When I got to the ending in actual ME3... actually, I was kicking myself for not coming up with some of those ideas. And, at the same time, I was also annoyed that Bioware didn't follow up on some of the stuff they (seemed to be) foreshadowing. I also wasn't a huge fan of the Matrix like bit... mostly cause I didn't like the Matrix films.

In the end, I didn't love the ending, but I didn't hate it either. It seemed to waste some of the potential, but then so did my ending (by missing out on what should have been an obvious solution).

Do I want a new ending to the game? No, not really. Because that's the thing - I already took a stab at a better ending, and it was only sort of better. I don't know that there is a perfect ending to this. I don't know that there could be.

Truth be told, now that I've had time to think things over, the only real problem I have with the ending is the lack of a fucking epilogue, so we don't see what happens next, how your choices affected things in the long run.
Seriously, that's the only real problem with ME3's ending.

But as is the case at least some of the time, you do have a point there, mr. Sterling.

Jimothy Sterling:

Zachary Amaranth:

Eric the Orange:
And that this is the first episode put up under his Forum commenting profile instead of his usual one for putting up videos.

If you look back at prior videos, they're currently posted by "Jimothy Sterling." Looking at his profile, this account is listed as the one to have done the prior "articles," too.

So....

If you guys crack this case, you get to find out where Jesus' body is buried.

It's buried in your basement, isn't it.

While we're on opposite sides of the debate I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. Good job Jim.

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