The Big Picture: Stuperior

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I doubt Doc Ock will ever have sex with MJ precisely because of the rape implications and also because Marvel has been down this road before with another character (I think it was Chameleon) and they specifically mentioned that he and the female character DIDN'T have sex. So really, it's sad and funny and silly to see people continuously bringing this up and being upset about something that will likely never even happen.

But back to issue 700...

I read it, and thought it was okay. It wasn't the big deus ex machina that OMD was, and I found Peter's final day to have been a rather moving story, especially the part where he sees all of his loved ones who had died.

By the way, for the OMD-haters, while it wasn't necessarily the best-written idea ever your anger is misplaced - be angry instead with the decision to have Spider-Man reveal his identity during Civil War.

TheSchaef:

Baron_BJ:

TheSchaef:
Bob makes a point in the end: in the end, it's a geek fantasy where the stories we like are just as implausible as the ones we don't.

See also: The Incredible Hulk, who for the sake of the plot, can now suddenly control his rage without any explanation. Which doesn't matter, cause that shot was AWESOME.

In the context of the movie it's kinda clear yadda yadda on and on about how...

This is not a plot hole in any way.

I'm forced to wonder if there's a point in this reply where you stopped and watched the link in question, realizing that I am not the person who made this claim, and that even the people who made the video loved the movie and thought it was awesome.

I know, that doesn't change the fact that people keep calling it a plot hole when it isn't. Saying something is stupid but that you like it doesn't change the fact that you were wrong.

It's like when people would say that Frodo not riding the giant eagles is a plot hole in Lord of the Rings. It isn't Sauron's eye is focused on the ring and he would have just told his soldiers whom are heavily stationed there and nearby "Shoot him now", pick the ring up off their lifeless corpses once they hit the ground. People still liking the movie doesn't change the fact that the criticism is wrong.

Nghtgnt:
I doubt Doc Ock will ever have sex with MJ precisely because of the rape implications and also because Marvel has been down this road before with another character (I think it was Chameleon) and they specifically mentioned that he and the female character DIDN'T have sex. So really, it's sad and funny and silly to see people continuously bringing this up and being upset about something that will likely never even happen.

But back to issue 700...

I read it, and thought it was okay. It wasn't the big deus ex machina that OMD was, and I found Peter's final day to have been a rather moving story, especially the part where he sees all of his loved ones who had died.

By the way, for the OMD-haters, while it wasn't necessarily the best-written idea ever your anger is misplaced - be angry instead with the decision to have Spider-Man reveal his identity during Civil War.

He's already tried to have sex with her and then clearly got very aggressive toward her when she was a bit taken aback by the fact he had the costume underneath. So you're saying that in the long run we may just end up with attempted rape? ...yay?

Baron_BJ:
I know, that doesn't change the fact that people keep calling it a plot hole when it isn't. Saying something is stupid but that you like it doesn't change the fact that you were wrong.

IT. WAS. A. JOKE.

God help me.

TheSchaef:

Baron_BJ:
I know, that doesn't change the fact that people keep calling it a plot hole when it isn't. Saying something is stupid but that you like it doesn't change the fact that you were wrong.

IT. WAS. A. JOKE.

God help me.

I got the joke. I just don't care. I'm an asshole if you have yet to catch on.

Baron_BJ:
I got the joke. I just don't care. I'm an asshole if you have yet to catch on.

Well, at least you're honest about the tendency to arbitrarily destroy other people's capacity to enjoy things. I'm just not sure I see the gain in it.

TheSchaef:

Baron_BJ:
I got the joke. I just don't care. I'm an asshole if you have yet to catch on.

Well, at least you're honest about the tendency to arbitrarily destroy other people's capacity to enjoy things. I'm just not sure I see the gain in it.

I DO IT FOR THE SEXUAL THRILL!

Pat Hulse:
While I agree for the most part on the Doc Ock turn, I gotta disagree with "One More Day".

I don't hate "One More Day" because it's ridiculous, poorly-executed, and reeks of editorial mandate. I don't hate it because it results in a lot of mind-bogglingly stupid retcons that effectively give the finger to JMS's work on the series.

No, I hate "One More Day" because during JMS's run, I came to the realization that Spider-Man had been a kid for far too long. He needed to grow up and evolve. He needed to stop talking about responsibility and finally own up to it. And I was totally on board with this.

So when Peter is faced with mounting adversity from his friends and colleagues over the "Civil War" stuff, his beloved Aunt is knocking on Heaven's door, and his life as Peter Parker is thrown to the chopping block after revealing his identity, I thought this was the perfect opportunity for his character to finally hit a milestone.

When Mephisto showed up and offered him an easy way out for a (let's face it) meaningless price, I thought this would be the perfect moment for Peter to prove what the meaning of responsibility was. By rejecting Mephisto's offer not because it wasn't a good deal but because it meant running away from his problems for the sake of his own selfishness, it could have been probably one of the best moments in Spider-Man history. A defining moment.

But then, nope. Peter took the deal. All of his complications and problems? Swept away in an instant. All so that Spider-Man could go back to the way he used to be. He went back to living with Aunt May, his dead best friend came back, he was single, his new powers were gone, and we didn't get so much as a hint of regret from that supposed part of his soul that still remembered what he did.

The thing is... I related to Spider-Man in the events leading up to "One More Day" in a way that I hadn't since I was a kid. I could understand the struggles of responsibility and consequences that come with growing older. And it's not just that I can't relate to the younger, free-spirited Spider-Man or anything, it's just that I can't relate to a guy who, when faced with the problems of the real world that resulted from HIS choices and HIS mistakes, opts to sacrifice something that matters to him in order to cling onto simpler times that he should have grown past long before.

To me, "One More Day" felt like the story of a guy who married young, found out how hard it was, and then opted to get a divorce and move back home to live with his parents because those were the "good old days".

I can understand wanting to keep "Spider-Man" a character for young people to relate to, and I get that they couldn't have Peter retire and get replaced by a new kid because that rarely ever works out. But if they weren't going to have the balls to follow through on all these complications in Peter's life, then they shouldn't have bothered in the first place.

I remember Linkara over at Atop the Fourth Wall actually came to the conclusion that Spider-Man's creed of "great responsibility" is nothing but a load of crap in order to seem like a better person than he really is. WERE he responsible he'd either A) Devote his time to crime-fighting at the cost of his social life or B) distance himself from crime-fighting in order to be there for his loved ones. Then he gets into that Spidey has NOT matured despite having graduated college and gotten married. He was actually contemplating that Marvel should reboot the series because if the writers are just going to keep him in the same mindset he had in high school THEN WHY ISN'T HE STILL THERE?????

Baron_BJ:
I DO IT FOR THE SEXUAL THRILL!

The definition of irony:

even before seeing this reply, my planned exit from this exchange was going to be: "well, whatever gets your rocks off, I guess."

Pre-cognition!

Joriss:
Bob should do an episode about a comic that isn't weird...at all!

Wait, is there such a comic?

Probably not. Due to new media, comics are struggling to grab our attention. So they've always employed strange tactics. There's whole tropes based around it. "Recycled in SPACE" and so on.

*shrugs*

i don't particularly care, the whole things sounds neat and all, but any one getting seirusly getting bet out of shape over this kinda needs to step back a moment and realize just how stupid it really is.

actually, that's my general stance on all 'but hurt fanboy outrage'

my favourite thing about this as onky a passer-by in the whole comics thing, is how annoyed my comic loving friend is about the new rapist spiderman(as he calls it).

TheSchaef:

Baron_BJ:
I DO IT FOR THE SEXUAL THRILL!

The definition of irony:

even before seeing this reply, my planned exit from this exchange was going to be: "well, whatever gets your rocks off, I guess."

Pre-cognition!

It would appear that you've won this round man with strange name that sounds like a man with a lisp trying to say "Shave". For now.

Scarim Coral:
So overall you're not against the changed they did to the character and yet you named the episode title "Stuperior" (from the word stupid right)? I mean I assume you were against it base from the title.

I think that was a jab more at the fanbase than the story.

Anyway, I think the proof is in the pudding. People can bitch and moan about the story being stupid all they want, but if Bob can't find a copy of the comic because it's just that hard for stores to keep in stock, then obviously it was a good idea to do the story.

Baron_BJ:

TheSchaef:
Bob makes a point in the end: in the end, it's a geek fantasy where the stories we like are just as implausible as the ones we don't.

See also: The Incredible Hulk, who for the sake of the plot, can now suddenly control his rage without any explanation. Which doesn't matter, cause that shot was AWESOME.

In the context of the movie it's kinda clear that he's managing to keep himself calm (thought people around him aren't sure and think he'll be set off by anything) from things that would anger others, him losing his shit on the Helicarrier is easily explained by extreme stress and panic/anxiety. It's also been shown in his own film (because yay for shared continuity) that Bruce can "guide" the Hulk's rage in a most basic way, sure the Hulk is still a complete idiot, but he's going to attack what he perceives as a threat (and when panicking he's going to lash out at most things, like people are known to do) or an important target. If Banner can control his emotions/anger well enough for this situation (people in real life are known to do this as well, except the Rage Monster part) then he could easily focus all his anger before transforming on the situation at hand and the Hulk, though stupid, is more than capable of differentiating allies (as he has in the past).

This is not a plot hole in any way.

This is also a case of 'the director's cut explains it better,' as his talk with the security guard when he fell, Brain is that you?, is longer and 'deeper.'

KoDOmega:
... whoa.

The actual big bad issue, Bob.

You missed it.

If most people are getting their panties in a twist over Spidey dying, that's fine.

The thing they should ACTUALLY be mad about?

ANYONE, INCLUDING AFOREMENTIONED REDHEADED CIPHER, HAVING A SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH SPIDER-MAN.

Basically, Doc HAS to either tell his sexual partners he's actually a reformed supervillain in a superhero's body or else ANYTHING they do could be considered rape by fraud, a very serious, very real crime that he could very easily perpetrate if he's not careful. Heck, by some definition, ANYTHING he does, regardless of what he tells people, could be considered rape... OF PETER PARKER.

Again, I AGREE with you on the fact that this story has a lot of potential for good, twist-on-the-mythos storytelling. But Doc better keep the pistol in his holster or else Spidey comics are going to get VERY uncomfortable VERY quickly.

This is important and should be read.

I'm not that big a Spider-Man fan... but I have basically the same opinion as Linkara on the issue of Peter Parker (if you haven't seen Linkara's videos, go check them out, they are really good); Peter Parker's story should have ended with the Clone Saga, having Peter settle down to start a proper family, and having Ben Reilly take over as Spider-Man. Instead, they butcher it all up by killing Ben, some bloke on the company deciding that "married Peter is boring", and finally killing of Peter as well for good measure.

Certainly, I think this could all lead to some interesting situations, but I personally would have a lot more respect for Marvel if they had had the guts to end the story of Peter Parker, AND give him the happy ending he truly deserved.

This is why comic books are trying so hard to stay relevant.

Not because of the convenient plot twists, the color by numbers stories, or the fact that you can see something coming a mile away.

Ok, that probably has something to do with it but the fact that people get so butthurt and childish over something as simple as a piece of entertainment and then spray it all over the internet for people to see is a really big problem...and then people on the outside don't buy them.

The good news is, there's one less awful super-villain in the Marvel Universe. Seriously, Spiderman has the worst (or second worst thanks to the Flash) villains in comics and Doc Oc was no different.

I might actually check out the "new" Spiderman. Can't be any worse than any of the other terrible Marvel Now stuff minus The Avengers and maybe All New Xmen.

I really liked the "dying wish" story line and heck the idea is rather interesting in my idea
srsly as bad as one more day? can someone explain why?

At least this is interesting, a different take on things. Spider-man had been getting a bit stale to me, it's why I stopped reading years ago. Might pick up on it again for a bit, see where this goes.

While I like the idea of a villain turning good.. I'm kinda torn on how they're doing it here... but hey, comics, weird shit like this happens all the time, I suppose...

I liked The Other, yeah i said. if it weren't for Civil War (not completely blaming it) it may have led to things touched upon by JMS like Peter's own doubt and guilt literally holding him back both as a person and evolutionary. He'd be more like a Spider the cocoon wasn't that weird, spiders do that.
And I think Peter has officially died once, strange some of these bad stories have great potential either being utter crap or goofy fun.
OMD is bad not Because it was bad but because Peter didn't act like the hero he's supposed to be (well he tried but MJ stopped him), even during the Clone saga Peter took a step back and decided to retire for his new family(it may have had something to do with his powers going on the Fritz to buuut..._).

O Well i haven't bought Spidey in years, no lose :)

First, the whole thing with Peter's body and MJ really better be sorted out soon... there are a lot of ways this can go wrong. Slot's a good writer, I hope that he'll resolve this in a way that won't cause outrage. (And I REALLY hope I don't regret defending him on this in a few months... -_-)

As for the event itself, I'll just quote myself...

To be honest, I think it's stupid. But I don't think it's that bad.

If they just made this the 700th issue and continued with this plot point numbering it 701, I don't think it'd raise quite as much of a stink. We all know the status quo would be restored in time, so instead of the whole "This is the end of Spider-Man!" thing, this could have just been a fun (even if stupid) little story arc. Nothing besides the number and title is changing. There were no retcons, the book is keeping the same writer, and its going to continue on the plot point of the last issue. Superior Spider-Man #1 is Amazing Spider-Man #701 in everything but name.

An attempt at marketing trying to add an air of finality to this kinda has soured the whole idea before it even started. And what's more, it's going to make the inevitable return to the norm seem worse.

Overall, I thought Marvel NOW! was being handled much better than the New 52. It's a shame that it's first real screw-up was something like this.

As for the story itself: Meh. I'll wait for the trade when it eventually comes out.

As for the issue, now that I've read it since then:

I liked it. Didn't love it, but I liked it. It had some sloppy moments, like Doc Ock just decided to be a good guy too quickly, but they can go over that change in more detail and show the struggle to be a better person in the actual series, and the bits with MJ (The bit at the start I didn't mind, because they clearly portrayed it as "This is a bad thing, he is being evil", but the kiss near the end... once again, don't make me regret defending you, Marvel... -_-) were uncomfortable, but the actual issue was a good game of chess between the two, trying to out-think the other, but from their enemy's perspective. It wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible, and it certainly wasn't as much as an asspull as OMD.

Huh. I was surprised you didn't mention the death-threats being sent by fans about issue 700. It makes the situation go from stupid to disgustingly stupid

ccdohl:
Escapist forumgoers use the word "interesting" too much.

Sounds cool I guess, but if Parker is brought back just because his memories overtake his body again, will it really be Parker, or just Doc Ock still in Parker's body, but with a memory problem? Peter will remain dead, and his consciousness will be lost.

It was used 6 times not counting your post on the front page.

You, by contrast, was used 40 times.

There are plenty of words used more often than "interesting".

But that was an interesting observation I guess.

theultimateend:

ccdohl:
Escapist forumgoers use the word "interesting" too much.

Sounds cool I guess, but if Parker is brought back just because his memories overtake his body again, will it really be Parker, or just Doc Ock still in Parker's body, but with a memory problem? Peter will remain dead, and his consciousness will be lost.

It was used 6 times not counting your post on the front page.

You, by contrast, was used 40 times.

There are plenty of words used more often than "interesting".

But that was an interesting observation I guess.

Not sure what your point is, since "you" is a pronoun without many alternative words to use but thanks, I guess.

SlugLady28:
Huh. I was surprised you didn't mention the death-threats being sent by fans about issue 700. It makes the situation go from stupid to disgustingly stupid

agreed, i saw some of the vitrile stuff. They took it beyond the par.

gigastar:

canadamus_prime:
Yeah I don't read comic books, but I bet this won't last long before they do the whole mental battle for control thing, Peter will win, and BAM, Peter Parker will be Spider-Man again. Either that or they'll contrive some other way to bring Peter back.

Thats why i dont get why the fans are being pissy. If it sucks they can retcon it and if it doesnt they can run with it.

Oh, also...

EDIT: You know what? I bet this is simply a case of "They changed it now it sucks."

Thats how you do it.

Meh, I was too lazy to go get the link.

Mr. Chipman, if you're reading this, I'd like you to know that I look forward to Tuesday every day of the week. I always learn something; and this video was calm and reasoned, so thank you for that.

Side Note: Kraven's Last Hunt was awesome.

SlightlyEvil:
So, the takeaway here is to disregard someone's opinion when they say Spider-Man is ruined forever.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/5995-The-Amazing-Spider-Man
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/6003-Untangling-Spider-Man
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/6649-Worst-Movies-of-2012

I'll keep that in mind.

If that's what you want to take away from this then be my guest although I don't think that's what Bob was saying at all. I think he was saying that the fan's are over reacting now and every time they say something, Spider-Man in this case, is "ruined forevar."

Seems to be an interest story.

You used a picture from a really good Spiderman film while describing it as "god awful". What a silly mistake.

People are getting upset about this? This doesn't seem like a big deal, just another new plot twist in a comic book. I wonder how many people would get angry on the Internet because I said today is Tuesday, as it seems everyone hates everything...

Captcha: wash whites separately

The secret to laundry. At last!

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