Zero Punctuation: Metal Gear Solid 4

 Pages PREV 1 . . . 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 . . . 31 NEXT
 

I assume it was just a coincidence that a ninja gaiden 2 trailer came on after you tore mgs4 apart... what a sellout

Holy crap, this is some serious war going on against ZP fans and the critics. I'm not even going to bother getting into the fray as it's likely that no one will change their minds, because everyone thinks of themselves as the most knowledgeable.

Now I haven't played the game, so I have no right to contest his opinion, but I have to say that all the ZP fans should unanimously shut up about the game unless they've played it themselves (seriously, how many of you have PS3s?).

I also have to agree with Terra on her points, Yahtzee has caved in to popular demand. As evidenced by the lack of interest in his positive reviews (Portal, Psychonauts, and COD4). But I don't blame him, as he even admits to it at the end of this video by saying: "I'm probably just jealous because I'm not yet in a position where I can write whatever bollocks I want and never get called on it." This is perhaps why he is so hypocritical, eh.

Personally, I can't wait to play this game. I don't care what he says because I know he's all about instant gratification. I just wish he would make more personal reviews, instead of making them repetitive rant fests. (like SSBB and virtually every RPG) Because all he does is hammer repeatedly on one or two problems he has with the genre or series and gives no concession.

TerraMGP:
FF game stories, aside from 9 anyways, stopped being good after six.

this was just a random message i quoted to point this out:

it's hilarious to me how people on forums (especially gamer forums) state opinions like they are bone fide scientific fact researched by bona fide scientists in science labs around the world.

Yahtzee, while very observant intelligent and funny, comes across more and more as a 360 fanboy who successfully tells the frothing nerd masses what to think about every game he reviews. Between him and Kotaku, there is hardly an original opinion amongst the brainwashed nerd elite.

What I am saying is story is not bad, and alot of detail can be a very good thing especially when presented well. Again this is why people need to be forced to do some real RP heavy D&D once in a while.

Wait, Yahtzee has an ACTION game with 20-30 minute cutscenes?

TerraMGP:

Groovewood:

TerraMGP:
.... why do I even bother? As I have said before in the end its about the hypocracy of him bashing a game he very well could have made. Frankly he didn't even do a good job of bashing all the flaws in the game but thats not even the point. The fact that I think most of you who can't handle cut scenes out there need to lay off the Halo is irrelevent. the FACT is that he wrote a game that is very much like most of Hideos work and then he bashes MGS4 for something HE has done himself. how hard is that to understand?

But does Yahtzee say his game is an awesome experience? I don't know, but I don't think so. If he did then that could be conceived as hypocrisy, but then again there are many more factors to take into account. You can write a mystery and still find fault with another mystery story. Who's to say Yahtzee likes his game? Maybe when he created it he did, but maybe now he thinks it's total crap.

If he actually put out a game he himself thought was bad, let alone put enough time and effort into that story... honestly at that point he just has no business reviewing games. When you are an independent game designer you make games YOU would want to play, they are a reflection of what YOU have to offer. If he didn't think he at least had a good concept he would never put it out.

Bottom line is that if you people really think that its bad for not fitting into a nice neat little mold, which none of the MGS games have really done, then, well, I just don't know what people want but I feel like the future of video games is bleak.

I don't think the MGS games are bad. I don't think they are perfect. I think they could be improved. That's the message i'm getting from a lot of people here. You just seem to be taking it way too personally. Are you Hideo Kojima in disguise?

You hate his inconsistencies but are bored that his opinions are sometimes consistent?

There is a major difference between making a game and reviewing it. More often then not you can make something and go "Why did I even do that?". Did Yahtzhee ever say his game was a perfect game and this is how all games should be designed? Or was he just making a game to make one? I doubt he thinks his game is perfect and I bet theres some things he wish he could change so to use it as a guide line for comparing his game to his reviews is like using a ruler to decide how tasty an apply is.

Terra, I happen to be a DM. I went out and bought all those damn 4th edition books the day they came out (goddamn pricey I'll add) and I plan to DM for a very long time to come. Know what the key to a successful campaign is? Keep the story moving along at a good pace so that things don't stagnate. Also, I'm an avid roleplayer, but that's about as geeky as I'll go into that bit. :P I create character motivations and double crosses and little love interests and even the occasional silly twist. I can forgive that, that's fine, but I stand by my earlier assessment about the presentation.

TerraMGP:
What I am saying is story is not bad, and alot of detail can be a very good thing especially when presented well. Again this is why people need to be forced to do some real RP heavy D&D once in a while.

Yes, but in MGS4's case I think the argument can be made (and defended as I've done above) that the story - with respect to the game - has NOT been presented well. As for real RP heavy D&D: I recommend Planescape: Torment and Fallout 1 and 2. :)

I have never played any of the MGS games, but I know a couple of fanboys of the franchise and one of them tried to 'convert' me with MGS4 and if I'm honest, it didn't really press many buttons for me. Without all of the backstory I didn't really find myself at ease with the world and as a standalone story, what I saw of MGS4 wasn't all that great. It had its moments, but on the whole it wasn't good enough to base a game around, which is a shame because I like the idea of varying cutscene-gameplay ratio to 'mix things up' and make heavily-cinematic sorts of games. Good call on the necklines thing as well, hehe.

In all, an entertaining piece but it probably wouldn't deter me from buying the game if I was going to.

No, though I am broke enough that I wish I was. I just hate to see Yatzee sell out and this was the straw that broke the camels back. If he has genuine issues with MGS4 then fine I can accept that, My main point is simply that I hate to see him cave to peer pressure as he seems to be and shifting to whatever mindset lets him bash the hardest.

As for making a game and reviewing, one lends itself to the other. He never said his game was perfect, but by putting it out there he said it was good enough to play, it was a reflection of the kind of work he does and now bashing someone for doing the same just because it makes him so popular. The game is still a reflection of who he is, and he is saying that someone else doing the same thing was bad. He made relatively HUGE cutscenes for someone using AGS and probably would have made longer. My problem is that he is guilty of doing what he is saying is bad for a big time producer to do almost to a T.

Also I never said I was bored with him, I'm only bored now that hes selling out and the charm is gone

Also also, to quote my cousin

4E is the absolute worst thing to ever happen to gaming.

Stupid accidental double post

Magugag:
Terra, I happen to be a DM. I went out and bought all those damn 4th edition books the day they came out (goddamn pricey I'll add) and I plan to DM for a very long time to come. Know what the key to a successful campaign is? Keep the story moving along at a good pace so that things don't stagnate. Also, I'm an avid roleplayer, but that's about as geeky as I'll go into that bit. :P I create character motivations and double crosses and little love interests and even the occasional silly twist. I can forgive that, that's fine, but I stand by my earlier assessment about the presentation.

Hehe, why not try the Kojima Way of DMing next time? It might be as awesome as some wager here.

DM: "Right, let me start with a 23 minute long introduction. [...] So, Player1, you are standing behind some trucks in a desolate, wartorn, landscape in the Orient. What will you do?"

Player1: "... huh. What?! Okay. Uhm, I'll move slightly to the left."

DM: "Good. That triggers a 5 minute event which I'll tell now. [...] So, Player1, what do you do next?"

DM: "Player1? Player2? Guys?! Where are you?"

:)

Thats usually about how most of our games go, not as cynically but we will go whole sessions with little or no rolling.

TerraMGP:
No, though I am broke enough that I wish I was. I just hate to see Yatzee sell out and this was the straw that broke the camels back. If he has genuine issues with MGS4 then fine I can accept that, My main point is simply that I hate to see him cave to peer pressure as he seems to be and shifting to whatever mindset lets him bash the hardest.

As for making a game and reviewing, one lends itself to the other. He never said his game was perfect, but by putting it out there he said it was good enough to play, it was a reflection of the kind of work he does and now bashing someone for doing the same just because it makes him so popular. The game is still a reflection of who he is, and he is saying that someone else doing the same thing was bad. He made relatively HUGE cutscenes for someone using AGS and probably would have made longer. My problem is that he is guilty of doing what he is saying is bad for a big time producer to do almost to a T.

Also I never said I was bored with him, I'm only bored now that hes selling out and the charm is gone

How is he caving to peer pressure? Is it honestly that hard for you to believe he didn't like the game that much?

Wait lol You don't like 4E?
Done with this thread as you must obviously be a troll. Seriously.

No, its hard for me to beleive that he shifts his basic mindset about gaming that much. Its hard for me to buy that he would be unable to even grudgingly admit to doing something similar or even point to many of the other good, or hell even the bad points. I'm not saying he should have liked the game, I am talking about a bigger issue with him flipflopping on what he likes about games and what he has to say. He is giving reviews now that are totally bad and are bad for their own sake.

The advertisement following this review contains the single funniest slogan a game has ever had. And then some handicam douchebag starts talking about Jack Thompson and I turn off. For the love of God won't gamers shut up about Jack Thompson? It's pathetic.

Oh yeah and this is a fine review because Mister Croshaw is a fine reviewer.

And thats the logic that has helped to kill his credibility. Its no longer he is a fine reviewer because he does not give a damn about what others think and just sticks to his guns, apparently respectability kills off a persons integrity on the quickfast.

VMerken:

Magugag:
Terra, I happen to be a DM. I went out and bought all those damn 4th edition books the day they came out (goddamn pricey I'll add) and I plan to DM for a very long time to come. Know what the key to a successful campaign is? Keep the story moving along at a good pace so that things don't stagnate. Also, I'm an avid roleplayer, but that's about as geeky as I'll go into that bit. :P I create character motivations and double crosses and little love interests and even the occasional silly twist. I can forgive that, that's fine, but I stand by my earlier assessment about the presentation.

Hehe, why not try the Kojima Way of DMing next time? It might be as awesome as some wager here.

DM: "Right, let me start with a 23 minute long introduction. [...] So, Player1, you are standing behind some trucks in a desolate, wartorn, landscape in the Orient. What will you do?"

Player1: "... huh. What?! Okay. Uhm, I'll move slightly to the left."

DM: "Good. That triggers a 5 minute event which I'll tell now. [...] So, Player1, what do you do next?"

DM: "Player1? Player2? Guys?! Where are you?"

:)

That is freaking AWESOME. :P

And off-topic, I find 4th edition perfectly fine. The rules are less overbearing and a little more simple, skill challenges allow for more roleplaying involved and less dice rolling, and all classes having powers makes it so you don't do the same damn thing every round. As far as roleplaying goes, none of the freedom is taken away and the rules have been streamlined. The only problem I have is a slight lack of content, but give it a year or so and maybe it will have half as many books as 3E. :P The content will come.

You know people complained about the long cutscenes in Xenosaga and that was most definetly an RPG so I really do not believe that the type of game is the issue for some. I suspect people would still complain about the length of these scenes if MGS was an RPG.

TerraMGP:
No, its hard for me to beleive that he shifts his basic mindset about gaming that much. Its hard for me to buy that he would be unable to even grudgingly admit to doing something similar or even point to many of the other good, or hell even the bad points. I'm not saying he should have liked the game, I am talking about a bigger issue with him flipflopping on what he likes about games and what he has to say. He is giving reviews now that are totally bad and are bad for their own sake.

A person's opinion on video games, believe it or not, is not carved in stone and the same for the rest of his or her natural life. Maybe one day, a JRPG will plod along that Yahtzee will truly love. Maybe one day, Yahtzee might play beyond the first act of The Witcher and see the game for what it really is :).

People flip-flop all the time about things, depending on their experience. Thus Yahtzee as well. It's only natural.

While the review raised some good points, such as cutscene:gameplay ratio, I friggin loved this game.
Call me a fanboy if you want but I like to view the MGS saga as more of a series of interactive movies than games, perhaps due to the cinematic nature of the past 4 games.

TerraMGP:
And thats the logic that has helped to kill his credibility. Its no longer he is a fine reviewer because he does not give a damn about what others think and just sticks to his guns, apparently respectability kills off a persons integrity on the quickfast.

What in this review is inconsistent with the other reviews he has given? I don't understand what you are really complaining about other than that he insulted your favourite game.

VMerken:

TerraMGP:
No, its hard for me to beleive that he shifts his basic mindset about gaming that much. Its hard for me to buy that he would be unable to even grudgingly admit to doing something similar or even point to many of the other good, or hell even the bad points. I'm not saying he should have liked the game, I am talking about a bigger issue with him flipflopping on what he likes about games and what he has to say. He is giving reviews now that are totally bad and are bad for their own sake.

A person's opinion on video games, believe it or not, is not carved in stone and the same for the rest of his or her natural life. Maybe one day, a JRPG will plod along that Yahtzee will truly love. Maybe one day, Yahtzee might play beyond the first act of The Witcher and see the game for what it really is :).

People flip-flop all the time about things, depending on their experience. Thus Yahtzee as well. It's only natural.

That drastically? and always to the side where he is in opposition? Seems way too coincidental.

Also on 4E, no, it just took out all the rules that make it so you can actually role play and killed it.

TerraMGP:
And thats the logic that has helped to kill his credibility. Its no longer he is a fine reviewer because [b]he does not give a damn about what others think and just sticks to his guns, apparently respectability kills off a persons integrity on the quickfast.

He's not caving to the peer pressure of countless 10/10 reviews from other sites and rapid Metal Gear fans, and that makes him a sellout?

I'm confused.

It must depend on which peer pressure you cave to. Again, we're back to the simple fact that you don't like Yahtzee anymore because he beat up on your favorite game.

I prepared for a stream off fanboyish moans when I clicked comments, so im suprised.

This was an excellant review in my eyes, I bought MGS 4, on the pretext it was the one game I could use to justify buying a ps3, and I was mistaken, th game is pretty poor. The graphics are excellant, but Gameplay is drastcallywrong.

The decision to dumb the games controls down and try andmakeit for everyone has ruined the series im my eyes.

That and close quarters combat is appalling.

Yahtzee is as mercurial as a whimsical pixie! It's his wily nature.

And as for 4E, who the hell needs rules to roleplay? Diplomacy and Bluff are still in, and those are the only rules that I see as pertinent to the experience of interaction and roleplay. Have you given it a chance?

Totally agree with Yahtzee, if you want THAT much story go read a book or see a film. Dont just tack some sub par gameplay on it so you can get away with charging 40 for it.

Oh and they could at least have made the story good. It makes Lost look like a documentary.

mspencer82:

TerraMGP:
And thats the logic that has helped to kill his credibility. Its no longer he is a fine reviewer because [b]he does not give a damn about what others think and just sticks to his guns, apparently respectability kills off a persons integrity on the quickfast.

He's not caving to the peer pressure of countless 10/10 reviews from other sites and rapid Metal Gear fans, and that makes him a sellout?

I'm confused.

It must depend on which peer pressure you cave to. Again, we're back to the simple fact that you don't like Yahtzee anymore because he beat up on your favorite game.

exactly, a fanboy can't take it, yet I bet he was the first to brag about Halo being shot down to any 360 fanboys. There games people...not real...

final fantasy? dungeons and dragons? shut up!

and stop giving Yahtzee breaks.

this is his first review that is at least 90% fail.
and it follows up with a ninja gaiden preview.
he is at this moment, no doubt, walking around with a bag full of white-and-green condoms for all the 360 fanboys who want to ravenously suck his dick.

TerraMGP:

Also on 4E, no, it just took out all the rules that make it so you can actually role play and killed it.

Heres a quick tip on Dungeons and Dragons. The rules are more or less guidelines.

mspencer82:

TerraMGP:
And thats the logic that has helped to kill his credibility. Its no longer he is a fine reviewer because [b]he does not give a damn about what others think and just sticks to his guns, apparently respectability kills off a persons integrity on the quickfast.

He's not caving to the peer pressure of countless 10/10 reviews from other sites and rapid Metal Gear fans, and that makes him a sellout?

I'm confused.

It must depend on which peer pressure you cave to. Again, we're back to the simple fact that you don't like Yahtzee anymore because he beat up on your favorite game.

Hes selling out the other direction, to the Indie crowd, to the gamers who reject the mainstream. Hes trying to cater to them by tearing the snot out of games that are popualr for The sake of doing it. And again get off this stupid yatzee fanboy crap about me not liking him because he ripped on a game I like. He ripped on ALOT of games I like, its the flipflopping I have issues with

Magugag:
Yahtzee is as mercurial as a whimsical pixie! It's his wily nature.

And as for 4E, who the hell needs rules to roleplay? Diplomacy and Bluff are still in, and those are the only rules that I see as pertinent to the experience of interaction and roleplay. Have you given it a chance?

Yeah... if thats all you ever used then I'm sure pen and paper MMO will be fine for you. Some of us on the other hand don't want that poorly written crap at our table.

Well, that was a great review, and I particularly enjoyed the comment about Fanfiction writers. Also, question. Am I the only person who finds this story easy to follow? I'm not joking, The story makes sense to me, completely and totally.

SirSchmoopy:

TerraMGP:

Also on 4E, no, it just took out all the rules that make it so you can actually role play and killed it.

Heres a quick tip on Dungeons and Dragons. The rules are more or less guidelines.

Yes, in the case of 4E poorly written guidelines that turn it into some bland WoW clone. The game is just bad.

 Pages PREV 1 . . . 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 . . . 31 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here