Zero Punctuation: The Last of Us

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Strain42:

Isn't that basically Yahtzee's job?

People tend to think Yahtzee's job is to praise the games that they love and trash the ones they don't. It's funny when it happens to Call of Duty or whatever, but don't you DARE talk about something we actually like.

klaynexas3:
Maybe I've been playing a fair too many games as of late, but when I'm being shot at, shooting back seems a hell of a lot less like murder than simply surviving. Hell, they even bring it up in the game; it's either this entire group of bandits or me, and knowing there are still full cities thriving, even under military rule, I have nothing against getting rid of a few murderous cocks. Killing a raider that murders, rapes, and steals everything in sight is no more of a murder than me killing those zombies, and yet we have nothing against mowing them down.

Well... actually none of it is murder until a judge pronounces a verdict in court, but I guess in a post-apocalyptic world that just falls under 'technicalities'.

slash2x:
Did not care for this game either. The story really just made me go WTF??? You mean to tell me that in 20 years you could not find or build a better knife? Hell use fucking rebar from one of the THOUSANDS of collapsed buildings. Hell build a spear out of the shit and keep the infected at arms length. Like these.... (Spoilered for size)

And you think after TWENTY YEARS Joel would be able to do more than 2 take-downs... He should be a hardened combat vet who should have a whole bag of moves to pick from.

And about the ending

Didn't you post this same exact post, on another TLOU thread?

Weird. Must be deja vu or something.

Anyways. Yeah this video really made me feel for the first time that Yahtzee was just attacking the developer, and not the game. I mean yeah, some of his critiques were spot on, but still I think he could've toned down the uncharted comparisons.

Zachary Amaranth:

Strain42:

Isn't that basically Yahtzee's job?

People tend to think Yahtzee's job is to praise the games that they love and trash the ones they don't. It's funny when it happens to Call of Duty or whatever, but don't you DARE talk about something we actually like.

I don't honestly think that's it.

(double post sorry)

DrunkenMonkey:

Zachary Amaranth:

Strain42:

Isn't that basically Yahtzee's job?

People tend to think Yahtzee's job is to praise the games that they love and trash the ones they don't. It's funny when it happens to Call of Duty or whatever, but don't you DARE talk about something we actually like.

I don't honestly think that's it.

(double post sorry)

You're relatively new here. You'll see the pattern form in time.

Funny enough, my girlfriend wanted to try this out, but stopped that because of the "veggie guys", and saw a playthrough of it instead. She asked me what I thought was going to happen, I said that judging by the trailer the ending would've been "X" but that seemed way too obvious, so it will most probably be "Y", and so it was.

I don't know if I've watched and played too many things but stories don't really seem to be that creative anymore.

Strain42:

Phearo:
I feel like this video was made just to bash the game. It's not the greatest game ever made, but what did it do to deserve such hate?

Isn't that basically Yahtzee's job? I mean that's kinda what he does, and of course it's important to remember that it's always subjective on his part. I've noticed people tend to get a lot more defensive if he badmouths one of those big titles that is "critically acclaimed" that everyone seems to love. Like remember when he didn't like Super Smash Brothers Brawl and people got so angry he dedicated an episode to addressing that anger?

I didn't see this episode as being any different from any other episode where he highlights the nitpicks and makes them funny except for the fact that this is a game that people are already in love with and probably expected him to say a few glowing things about. But if he didn't like it, he didn't like it, and if anyone here was expecting him to only to be kinda mad that he didn't that's their own problem, not Yahtzee's

Speaking generally of course, not specifically at you.

Well, that's not exactly what I meant, I mean even though Yahtzee does do those aforementioned things, he also mentions a few positive things about the game, as a sort of redeeming quality. This one felt like it didn't have that, like there's barely anything.

Huh. I wonder if I should bother with this game now. I was already put off by it being set in (yet another goddamn) zombie/"infected" apocalypse, featuring (yet another) father/daughter relationship as focus. Don't get me wrong, those can be great - see: The Walking Dead game - but I'm fucking sick of them. I'd hear good reviews though, and I did like the Uncharted games, so I was tempted, but... eh if it's just more soulless cliches I think I'll take a pass.

Also the "it's like Spec Ops, only better!" comments here followed by subsequently completely and utterly misinterpreting the themes represented in Spec Ops have made my eyes roll back so hard they've hit the ceiling. Is this a game I can only enjoy if I'm truly thick?

Strange, I loved the ending, was very fitting with the rest of the tale. Can't believe Yahtzee didn't get it, I found the following on Reddit for those that finished it and did not understand it, doubt there are many though, I found it a pretty good comment on the game. Needless to say, MASSIVE SPOILERS incoming.

Ariseishirou:
Huh. I wonder if I should bother with this game now. I was already put off by it being set in (yet another goddamn) zombie/"infected" apocalypse, featuring (yet another) father/daughter relationship as focus. Don't get me wrong, those can be great - see: The Walking Dead game - but I'm fucking sick of them. I'd hear good reviews though, and I did like the Uncharted games, so I was tempted, but... eh if it's just more soulless cliches I think I'll take a pass.

Also the "it's like Spec Ops, only better!" comments here followed by subsequently completely and utterly misinterpreting the themes represented in Spec Ops have made my eyes roll back so hard they've hit the ceiling. Is this a game I can only enjoy if I'm truly thick?

"Soulless" is one of the last words I would use to describe this game. And it's very different from the Uncharted games in numerous ways. Particularly in terms of writing and characters for example. It also isn't a "zombie game" strictly speaking. You fight against more humans than infected I believe. And in more ways than one the humans are the greater threat. This becomes especially evident later in the game.

And is this a game that one can enjoy only if he/she is thick? I very seriously doubt that.

Ariseishirou:
Huh. I wonder if I should bother with this game now. I was already put off by it being set in (yet another goddamn) zombie/"infected" apocalypse, featuring (yet another) father/daughter relationship as focus. Don't get me wrong, those can be great - see: The Walking Dead game - but I'm fucking sick of them. I'd hear good reviews though, and I did like the Uncharted games, so I was tempted, but... eh if it's just more soulless cliches I think I'll take a pass.

Also the "it's like Spec Ops, only better!" comments here followed by subsequently completely and utterly misinterpreting the themes represented in Spec Ops have made my eyes roll back so hard they've hit the ceiling. Is this a game I can only enjoy if I'm truly thick?

Probably, Naughty Dog seem to be going downhill recently, compare the second Uncharted to the third for example. And don't forget, the buggy, badly written mess that is Fallout 3 won GOTY when it's A.I. couldn't outsmart Half-Life 1's (in fact it has trouble competing with the A.I. of Doom), it's graphics are at best comparable to Dues Ex and it's writing is almost as cliche filled and plothole ridden as Twilight.

I do agree with most of the points, but I could paraphrase every other point with a "but". Frankly I played this game without having much stock in reviews as whilst the Uncharted series does have their good points, I ultimately found them forgettable. But I'm on my second play through and I'm finding the story and Gameplay rather engaging.

But then I'm not forced to play every zombie apocalypse game under the sun, so I suppose I'm not as tired by the concept. At least the setup was interesting and felt more realistic and felt more inspired than the zombies as per bio terrorism that most games seem to go for.

I'm finding Yahtzee's reviews of the Tripple A scene more nihilist than the game itself. Is it purely setting? He gave Bioshock Infinite a possitive mention, and yet in retrospect there is a lot wrong with it and misteps much more than The Last of Us does. But reviews and critques are personal subjective opinion, and I personally enjoy the game.

DrunkenMonkey:

slash2x:
Did not care for this game either. The story really just made me go WTF??? You mean to tell me that in 20 years you could not find or build a better knife? Hell use fucking rebar from one of the THOUSANDS of collapsed buildings. Hell build a spear out of the shit and keep the infected at arms length. Like these.... (Spoilered for size)

And you think after TWENTY YEARS Joel would be able to do more than 2 take-downs... He should be a hardened combat vet who should have a whole bag of moves to pick from.

And about the ending

Didn't you post this same exact post, on another TLOU thread?

Weird. Must be deja vu or something.

Anyways. Yeah this video really made me feel for the first time that Yahtzee was just attacking the developer, and not the game. I mean yeah, some of his critiques were spot on, but still I think he could've toned down the uncharted comparisons.

Oh lord I have a stalker.....

Yes I posted something very similar in the Critical Miss comic. I posted my problems with the knife there. Here I was more posting about the story, but then I read the stinger at the end and though "eh what the hell why not point out the shitty knife problem again?"

Wait a minute...... You just used a reply to my post to cover a double post with an edit..........
image

geldonyetich:
Me: "Naughty Dog, why are you making another zombie apocalypse game? Zombie apocalypses are so generically overplayed we've got a wildly popular AMC series based on them."

Naughty Dog: "... Fuck you, got mine."

Me: "Not regretting not owning a PS3 right now."

What's wrong with someone trying to put their own spin on one?

As someone who liked The Witcher, I think people should really relax off this issue about Yahtzee not liking "your new favourite" game.
So he didn't like the game you love? Big deal, because next week when he rips apart something from EA most of the complainers here will be cheering his name again.

Personally I can see where he's coming from. The story is pretty poor and that just seeps into the rest of the game. It's not bad. Just hyped.

Zachary Amaranth:

Strain42:

Isn't that basically Yahtzee's job?

People tend to think Yahtzee's job is to praise the games that they love and trash the ones they don't. It's funny when it happens to Call of Duty or whatever, but don't you DARE talk about something we actually like.

I don't really think that's it... I think everyone expects him to hold a certain degree of coherence to his own standards... and that's what is off-putting, the fact that he barely seems to have even played the game. Anyone who has watched the show for a while, surely does expect quite a bit of taking the piss out of any game, even the ones he really likes. But when a game such as this that adheres to so many of the concepts he generally praises (in a more serious manner), seems to be so brutally overlooked, I get a slight tinge of dishonesty.
And dishonesty from yahtzee is disappointing.

AmerikanRejekt:

Mick P.:

klaynexas3:
Maybe I've been playing a fair too many games as of late, but when I'm being shot at, shooting back seems a hell of a lot less like murder than simply surviving. Hell, they even bring it up in the game; it's either this entire group of bandits or me, and knowing there are still full cities thriving, even under military rule, I have nothing against getting rid of a few murderous cocks. Killing a raider that murders, rapes, and steals everything in sight is no more of a murder than me killing those zombies, and yet we have nothing against mowing them down.

Games should not be casual about introducing anthropomorphic monsters. That alienates a huge part of the human population that shares a capacity for empathy. Take like the first map of Demon's Souls. I felt sick to my stomach playing that. If you have such monsters they have to be A) undead (already dead) B) wraiths (never alive to begin with) or C) somehow mind controlled. In other words, not acting on their own volition (and they need to act sluggishly. The less human like the better.)

If you are ambushed or invaded, you are struggling to survive. But if you are the aggressor you are a murderer. Either way, killing from a distance, even arm+sword length is a lot less creepy than knifing. Slitting throats and these kinds of things will make a lot of people vomit. I can't watch that in a movie. I have to cover my eyes.

What the hell are you doing playing violent video games at all? IMHO, if you don't like the core principles of an entire genre/theme/whatever, you have no right to commentate on it. It's obviously not for you, and no one's designing for you, so why whine about it like it's a personal affront against you?

Boletaria Castle in Demon's Souls? You mean the map that's entirely filled with UNDEAD soldiers who've lost their minds and any semblance of humanity? Jesus Christ, if you can't handle that, then I don't know what else to tell you.

Don't like it? Don't play it, don't complain about it, and don't try to slander others for enjoying it.

Why? Because these are the only kinds of games I've ever played for my whole entire life. When I was little I played all kinds of games, sports, racers, whatever, but these are the only kinds of games that have staying power. You might be surprised but this kind of violence has been unheard of until very very very recently. It wasn't allowed for decades.

It only became popular when gross out horror slash slasher films begin to be shown in mainstream movie theaters.

The point isn't to retreat into a rationalization of the violence. The point is how it affects you psychologically, which cannot be rationalized away. If you enjoy you are kind of a sick human being.

In Demon's Souls the humanoids are like mental patients, they are not undead. They have gone mad, like in Lovecraftian fiction. And they exhibit very human like qualities. It's the equivalent of mowing down the homeless or going on a killing spree in an insane asylum. If there was one or two of these guys you might shake it off. But after realizing you are killing hundreds of them it is very much disturbing.

It's no different from killing hundreds of innocent bystanders in a war game. Just because you make the skin a little red doesn't change how it feels inside.

EDITED: The same rules apply humanoids that might be aliens from another planet, and to non-humanoids who might also demonstrate intelligence and empathy and to animal like creatures who remind us of our pets and wildlife. But especially human like monsters, because we are after all human.

Zachary Amaranth:

Casual Shinji:
Well then, who criticizes the critics?

Whoever wants to. I mostly find it funny that people only have an issue with Yahtzee being "lazy" or "teh bias" when it comes to games they like. In fact, more than a few of these same people seem to be more than happy to join in with Yahtzee if they don't like the game.

Because sometimes you can disagree with someone, and it's totally fine to make a comment as to why, which is what I see most people here doing.

This review came across squarely as "Zombies, ugh... Killing, ugh...", when I'm sure Yahtzee knows the game has way more going on than that, which he decided not to focus on for some reason. This is why people are a bit negative on this review, not because he didn't like it.

TurkeyProphet:

Mick P.:

That's not true at all. You might call your mother mom. But you'd call any one elses' mother a zombie. You might try to call them "infected" but then you'd realize after a few breaths that maybe you've been infected, because you are speaking in a weird language that would only be allowed in a badly written video game. And then you'd try to come up with something other than zombie to say to your buddy when one of the zombies is sneaking up on him from behind. But you'd give up after you realize that every other word is equally ill fit and blurt out ZOMBIE.

And you'd never be able to shake the feeling that just maybe you've become a zombie. Because only a zombie would be so braindead as to not call a zombie a zombie. Bad games 101.

I've no idea why you think this. Zombies are the LIVING DEAD. The Infected are not zombies and in real life I would not connect the two because I think of zombies as monsters from horror films that eat human flesh and come back from the dead. I do not think zombies are sick people.

Unfortunately what we think does not make a definition. A zombie is a sick person. Not dead. And can be cured. That's the definition of a classical zombie. Zombie movies appropriated the word zombie to describe their monsters. That's why video games and bad movies should always do the same. The More You Know.

The only time you need a special word for zombies is when you have two overlapping zombie apocalypses and you need someway to distinguish between the two kinds of zombies. An unlikely scenario.

I genuinely laughed at a lot of this review, especially the part about the cauliflower monster arbitrarily deciding what attacks can harm it.

That's kind of how I land on the Last of Us. It has a well presented story, but it's the kind of story we've heard dozens of times. Even though I'm only about half way through it at the moment, I've been able to call most of the plot points as they've come along. The game has great music and is well voiced, but the game play is a little too heavily influenced by Uncharted for my liking - specifically in the way that enemies are willing to sacrifice themselves for the glory of the hive-mind by rushing in to tie you up in melee combat while his buddies shoot you with their guns from a safe distance. Stealth's the name of the game, but as in Uncharted, I really feel like it's way too easy to get spotted in this game. After years of playing Thief, Metal Gear, Deus Ex, Splinter Cell, Hitman, and a number of other games with stealth classes, the Last of Us manages to frustrate me greatly whenever I sit down to play.

This game is good - it's hard to deny that Naughty Dog knows how to make a good game - but I guess I'm not seeing what everyone else is seeing, because I don't think it's the Citizen Kane of gaming, as I've heard others call it. I dunno, maybe I'm just tired of the hype, the zombies or post-apocalyptic settings. I'm ready to move on to dystopian settings now, although Remember Me turned out to not be that good either.

Too many people are babies and played this on normal instead of hard.

I am dissapoint Yahtzee. -.-

I agree the story was predictable, the combat was repetitive, and the puzzles were laughable, but the one thing that carried the game, and I thought you would love to death, was the character development. Joel is never made out to be this great hero. Hell, in the beginning he doesn't even want to take the job.

Normally I can laugh at the review even if I don't agree, but this one just felt like a, "I'm tired of this and you should be too" rant. Well you know what? I enjoy good zombie games, so Yahtzee...
image

nevarran:

Godfather is a fuckin terrible movie,Apocalypse Now has way better action scenes. <- This Yahtzee video in a nutshell.

Sarge034:
I agree the story was predictable, the combat was repetitive, and the puzzles were laughable, but the one thing that carried the game, and I thought you would love to death, was the character development.

That's kind the part I agree with people not liking the review, the fact Yatzee found unimportant things to pick against the game.
If anything his video is saying the game is good by picking story and characters as flaws.

This is what I actually expected from Zero Punctuation, to talk about the actual game, not a sort of "story/characters" rant to make us look int he other direction:

This was a strange one for me. Yahtzee has ripped games I've enjoyed to shreds and I've still found the video very funny. This one however did grate on me a tad. Yes he raises valid points about gameplay and the scenario but it wasn't all that humorous (to me) and sounded like the game has no redeeming qualities at all. I actually completely agree with him about the set up. Try explaining this game to someone who has no knowledge at all of it without it sounding clichéd. I don't think it's possible.

I'm not one to comment on someone else's opinion, but this is probably the first ZP video that I actually didn't like. I guess if I'd found it funnier I would have been fine with negativity (which you have to be with these videos).

Ah well, it hasn't taken away from my enjoyment from TLoU or my enthusiasm for Zero Punctuation videos :O)

Roll on next Wednesday!!

BLASPHEMER!
How DARE you disparage the finest Ladder Simulator of this generation?
Critics these days...

The criticisms are valid, and you know what, after all the hype absolutely fucking everywhere (the "Citizen Kane of Gaming" statement never fails to make me laugh whenever it is brought up), it probably does need someone to look at it and point out some problems.

However, it didn't stop me from loving the game, and is definitely one of my favourites so far this year, alongside Bioshock Infinite.

Strelok:
Strange, I loved the ending, was very fitting with the rest of the tale. Can't believe Yahtzee didn't get it, I found the following on Reddit for those that finished it and did not understand it, doubt there are many though, I found it a pretty good comment on the game. Needless to say, MASSIVE SPOILERS incoming.

... you do realise that "Humans Are The Real Monsters (and the main character in particular)" is the oldest, most tired cliché in all zombie fiction?

Maybe you've been thankfully oblivious to that and could enjoy this "revelation" as something profound.

I did like the fact that Joel gets new superpowers from drugs. That's always worth a chuckle.

Vale:

Strelok:
Strange, I loved the ending, was very fitting with the rest of the tale. Can't believe Yahtzee didn't get it, I found the following on Reddit for those that finished it and did not understand it, doubt there are many though, I found it a pretty good comment on the game. Needless to say, MASSIVE SPOILERS incoming.

... you do realise that "Humans Are The Real Monsters (and the main character in particular)" is the oldest, most tired cliché in all zombie fiction?

Maybe you've been thankfully oblivious to that and could enjoy this "revelation" as something profound.

I did like the fact that Joel gets new superpowers from drugs. That's always worth a chuckle.

Old idea? Perhaps. But it's also an awesome execution of said old idea. I get the impression that even if an idea is old and has been done a lot of times before as long as the person using it does a good job with it a lot of people won't mind. It looks like this is the case with The Last of Us. Heck, this game may even be an especially good example of this concept in effect.

Delcast:

Zachary Amaranth:

Strain42:

Isn't that basically Yahtzee's job?

People tend to think Yahtzee's job is to praise the games that they love and trash the ones they don't. It's funny when it happens to Call of Duty or whatever, but don't you DARE talk about something we actually like.

I don't really think that's it... I think everyone expects him to hold a certain degree of coherence to his own standards... and that's what is off-putting, the fact that he barely seems to have even played the game. Anyone who has watched the show for a while, surely does expect quite a bit of taking the piss out of any game, even the ones he really likes. But when a game such as this that adheres to so many of the concepts he generally praises (in a more serious manner), seems to be so brutally overlooked, I get a slight tinge of dishonesty.
And dishonesty from yahtzee is disappointing.

I dunno, when I watched this one I got more the feeling he was generally disappointed rather than actively hating the game, all that hype could have given him expectations the game just couldn't deliver on. Maybe he didn't bring up the character development because he felt it just wasn't that impressive.

I haven't played the game so I can't say too much, but I've watched a couple episodes of a lets play and I'm finding that though the way character information is presented is technically skillful-that is, skillful from a technical perspective-it is not particularly interesting or impressive to me. It might be completely different for the person actually playing the game, but from where I stand it seems like a very old story with a graphical update and a solid 'A' for effort in presentation of it.

Belbe:
Too many people are babies and played this on normal instead of hard.

I agree.

And Yahtzee's focus was all off this week. He didn't like the game for reasons outside the scope of Zero Punctuation, so maybe we get an extra bit of text to allow us to understand his way of seeing things.

I believe I know why Yahtzee didn't like The Last of Us, but he has gracefully left that bit out, as it would - once again - have raised another shit-storm of the non-fun and distracting kind. Unfortunately, he has also left out the core component of a proper review/bash/ZP episode. That's a bit of a bummer.

Delcast:

I don't really think that's it... I think everyone expects him to hold a certain degree of coherence to his own standards... and that's what is off-putting, the fact that he barely seems to have even played the game. Anyone who has watched the show for a while, surely does expect quite a bit of taking the piss out of any game, even the ones he really likes. But when a game such as this that adheres to so many of the concepts he generally praises (in a more serious manner), seems to be so brutally overlooked, I get a slight tinge of dishonesty.
And dishonesty from yahtzee is disappointing.

Unfortunately, most of the games people make a fuss about don't fit your excuses, so I think that falls a little flat.

Regardless, simply because he doesn't like something doesn't mean he's dishonest about it. It's quite possible that he does not believe these elements everyone thinks work so well do so. I know, that would be a complete and utter shocker, wouldn't it?

Also, I actually think you're kind of proving my point a little. EVERYONE and their brother accuses Yahtzee of not playing (game I like), because he missed the point of (game I like) or didn't accurately describe (section of (game I like)), or because he didn't do something in (game I like) the right way. In the end, he comes off as remarkably consistent, because he always misrepresents games. Even games he likes.

By these standards, Yahtzee probably hasn't played any games. Even the ones he praises.

Or, possibly he could just hate Naughty Dog that much, but there's no actual basis to assume this game got worse treatment. Especially since your accusations ALWAYS come up with (game I like).

Edit: incidentally, Sleeping Dogs was one of my favourite games of 2012. Now, this is partially because I came across so fe games in 2012 I really liked, but it's got some pretty solid elements. I am very much pro-Sleeping Dogs. When I went back and looked at the review, I noted quite a few inaccuracies within what Yahtzee said. It's possible he didn't play the game, or maybe he's just "teh bias" against games without jet packs or something.

Or maybe he just didn't like a game I liked.

Further, he raised some legit criticism. And he seems to here, as well. TLOU may not try and make the main characters out to be heroes, but you'd get that impression from a lot of the promotional material. You could easily carry that into the game, because it's really not all that unreasonable.

Casual Shinji:

Zachary Amaranth:

Casual Shinji:
Well then, who criticizes the critics?

Whoever wants to. I mostly find it funny that people only have an issue with Yahtzee being "lazy" or "teh bias" when it comes to games they like. In fact, more than a few of these same people seem to be more than happy to join in with Yahtzee if they don't like the game.

Because sometimes you can disagree with someone, and it's totally fine to make a comment as to why, which is what I see most people here doing.

This review came across squarely as "Zombies, ugh... Killing, ugh...", when I'm sure Yahtzee knows the game has way more going on than that, which he decided not to focus on for some reason. This is why people are a bit negative on this review, not because he didn't like it.

Look, if you're not going to address my argument, the one I've explained multiple times, that's fine. But please stop quoting me if that's the case. I don't mind you going after other arguments, but you either aren't reading mine, not comprehending them, or are completely misrepresenting them, and I'd very much like you to stop.

If you don't know what I'm talking about by now, I cannot help but think it's intentional.

Finally some one who see all this mediocre, worn out storytelling put on top of bare existant gameplay.
Same predictable weary nonsense like The Walking Dead interactive movie.

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