"Family Values" Groups Launch Email Campaign Against BioWare

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Kapol:
It pretty much blew their credibility in my eyes when they said that what Bioware is doing is 'propaganda' and that 'Star Wars videogames are for children.' Both statements are complete BS and show that they have no idea what they're talking about. Star Wars isn't just for kids. In fact, I'd argue it's more for adults then kids. But I haven't seen them, so I can't really comment.

They're family films, all ages can enjoy the films at least. That's their lasting appeal. Now, I'm going to take that point and run with it....

What's absurd is that these people seem to think that homosexuality in itself is inherently all about sexual activity, without realising one thing: assuming this is like assuming that all straight people don't enjoy wholesome relationships, and that they just love to screw.

I can understand discomfort with actually seeing certian flavours of sex happen because no-one wants to watch what they're not into, but assuming this is the entirety of what homosexuality entails is just ludicrous. Take any happy, innocent, pleasant little world in any children's TV program, one in which there's a twee, cutesy couple. Now, make switch the gender of one of 'em to make it a same sex relationship.

Got that image in your head, "Family Values" advocates? That same cutesy, innocent platonic love dynamic but between two people of the same sex? that is entirely fucking possible within gay relationships. This is demonstrably factual. If you people can't imagine this without those two characters fucking each other, you are the ones with the problems. Seeing happy married men/women having a sexless snuggle-up isn't going to corrupt your kids.

So, in that vein, I argue that even if ToR and the Star Wars franchise as a whole was just sunshine and flowers and rainbows and lollipops and shipped with an "All Ages" rating and all the violence was replaced by gentle verbal throwdowns featuring mild name-calling in which both sides ultimately say sorry and trot off for a picnic together, even if it was the most ludicrously cute family-friendly harmless edgeless funfest ever commited to cinema...

...then it should retain that status even if there's a gay couple in it. Because "gay couple" does not mean "these two people are going to be fucking each other or talking about sex on screen", in this context it means "two happy pleasant individuals who love each ovver so huggy-wuggy much and they like to give each other flowers and cuddle lots".

But then, what is the point? In the eyes of these fuckheads, two gay people merely enjoying each other's romantic company is morally objectionable. I could understand if they objected to overt sexual content being directed at kids, but that is - provably - not what this petty complaint is all about.

If anyone's corrupting our youth, it's them. How dare they try to suppress someone's expression beacuse of their own bigotry, and how dare they try to instill this bigotry in their children who are too young to make their own minds up about it!

bringer of illumination:
Bioware should be called out for making shitty, lazy games and shitting all over their old fans. Not for something as trivial as putting gay knobbings in a Star Wars game.

Yeah, it's despicable that Bioware will make and promote a certian kind of game and expect the people who won't like it to just not buy it.

Bioware need to learn that they have an unspoken obligation to please the people who used to like their games. The term "fan" isn't used to describe a "repeat customer", it's a term used to describe someone who deserves to dictate what the company produces.

It's shameful that Bioware hasn't realised this: if people gave you money in exchange for your products in the past, then you are now obliged to continue pleasing them and deviating to something that they might enjoy less is unnaceptable.

They need to realise something: the way that capitalism is supposed to work doesn't apply to people who term themselves fans. The profit the company made on past transactions wasn't made because that's how capitalism works - they were allowed to make a profit off the people who bought their products because those people considered it a loan which they expected to see payed off by having the company submit to their demands and give them whatever kind of gameplay they wanted.

The fact that Bioware continue to make games that actually fucking differ from their older ones in ways that their fans might not find pleasing is just despicable. It doesn't matter how business or creative output normally works with other companies, organisations that have fans have an unwritten contract that demands they please said fans, and that deviation from this course is rightfully and justly considered outright betrayal.

For shame, Bioware. For shame.

Bioware should be called out for making shitty, lazy games and shitting all over their old fans. Not for something as trivial as putting gay knobbings in a Star Wars game.

More output from the moral outrage industry. These people need help if they worry so much about what other people are doing in their games or in their bedrooms, but everyone knows that. What's important to note is that this used to be the default, nationwide attitude, and now it's being reduced to a smaller and smaller group of extremists.

Asuka Soryu:

Woodsey:
"and no sexual situations,"

Other than the beginnings of an incestuous relationship. Besides, it's rated, whether previous Star Wars stuff is "family fare" or not is completely irrelevant.

Annnnd why am I even bothering with this? "Family values" is now synonymous with ignorance and homophobia.

Incestuous 'Relationship'? You mean when she kissed Luke to annoy Han?

'... that was cut short when Lucas decided they should be brother and sister', I should add. Pretty sure they'd made eyes at each other before that point too.

bringer of illumination:
Bioware should be called out for making shitty, lazy games and shitting all over their old fans. Not for something as trivial as putting gay knobbings in a Star Wars game.

Ha! Agreed!

I'm against the dialogue wheel, on the grounds that it's just immoral to make such a crappy system of interaction.

I am also against the inability to skip an entire conversation in its entirety in SWTOR. Will someone please think of the children, and my space bar?

I've never really understood the need for a romantic thing in any MMO, but if they think it will make them more money, of course they're going to put it in. If people are upset about it, they should find some other game for their children to play. Like Age of Conan!

I'm not in the mood to be reasonable, I'm far too angry, and will just say that:
Christian people? This is why you get a bad rep.
Americans? This is why you get a bad rep.
Seriously.
Shit like this keeps happening, and it always seems to be localized in the 'merican christian circles.

I don't know, Star Wars did have some revolutionary ideals, I don't think we should be teaching our children to rebel against the government either, it could only lead to electing a gay president, which is the first sign of the apocalypse.

Seriously, though, at the age they're talking, kids shouldn't even be interested in heterosexual relationships.

Game is kind of boring now anyway, lol. I disregard females and acquire credits.

When I first read this, I thought they were going to talk about Mass Effect 3, and then I loled so hard. Let's go after something that has no gay/lesbian content instead of something that has gay and lesbian characters in it! I'm sure Fox News will help you if you ask.

Veloxe:

Andy Chalk:
"American families grew up with the Star Wars film series that was family fare. The films contained no profanity, no nudity and no sexual situations,"

Wait, what? Just going through what I remember of the star wars movies the only one I can think of that actually follows that is Episode 1.

Nothing sexual besides incest, sex slavery, and implied homosexual man on wookie action. :D

Don't these moral watchdog idiots have anything better to do with their time?

What really boggles the mind is that they'll be up for lambasting triple-A titles anytime, but they're also responsible for supporting stuff like "Super Noah's Ark 3D", which isn't anything more than a total conversion for Doom.

Okay, so Noah is using a slingshot against sheep and cows and giraffes, but you can't deny that we're just a texture and sound pack swap away from Cacodemons and zombified Space Marines and moans and groans and gore.

So, they're using shooter mechanics to promote Biblical stuff, in essence.

I really wish this moral outrage crap worked both ways. You're outraged by our use and implementation of homosexual relationships? Fine, I'll be outraged at how you're simplifying one of Western civilization's seminal pieces of literature and redacting it wholesale to support your political agenda.

CAPTCHA: french phrases
Nope, I'm pretty sure I typed all of this in English.

Okay, I've played a lot of the Old Republic, where is the gay sex? I've completely missed it. None of the male characters even get a chance to hit on the guys and my female Sith pureblood Warrior should be totally seducing Jeesa by now. Jeesa would totally go for it.
Seriously, here is there gay anything in SW:ToR?

Roganzar:
Okay, I've played a lot of the Old Republic, where is the gay sex? I've completely missed it. None of the male characters even get a chance to hit on the guys and my female Sith pureblood Warrior should be totally seducing Jeesa by now. Jeesa would totally go for it.
Seriously, here is there gay anything in SW:ToR?

There isn't any yet, but they've said that they may add some in at a later date.
That's what they are angry about, the possibility that they could be poisoning children with the evils of homosexuality.
Fun stuff, amirite?

Wow. This is insane. The propaganda bit made me laugh, but darkly.

Yeah, Bioware made gay-relationships an option because they were trying to turn everyone gay. That's Bioware's master plan. You've caught them. YOU GENIUSES.

Urgh.

The lack of objectivity hurts the article. It comes off as "heh those stupid parents, look at how dumb they are", which does not impress me.

The more these groups talk, the more I start to loathe "traditional values" and "family values".

"The films contained no profanity, no nudity and no sexual situations," it says.

So, when Leia is enslaved on a chain wearing next to nothing, that is not tangentially sexual?

And ooooh, twins are born in the "third" film! That is SO ruining my belief that babies come from the stork! :'(

None of those complainers knows much about SW, and even less about what an MMO is...

This sort of puts me in an odd position. I'm actually pro gay marriage, but then I also think that freedom of expression is important to a society and therefore I find no fault with this campaign. After all, I endorse political activism and if these people want to make their opinions heard then I encourage that, even if I don't support their argument.
To that end, I dislike the representation of this article. I hear people rail against Fox News all the time, but this is just as bad. In fact, I've seen Fox News handling certain issues with more journalistic intergrity than this piece does. And as far as the whole "children" thing goes, people don't just stop being someone's children when they become teenagers. I think that assuming that "children" means 8-year-olds isn't apt to this situation.

Here AFA, from someone you like.

The game is rated T for teen, teens are seen (wrongly) as less impressionable then younger children and thus less apt to protect (probably because nobody likes teenagers, not even teenagers). Therefore, "children" should never be playing this game anyways since any good parent would use the rating to know not to buy this game for there child (or pay for the online subscription). There, your argument is now moot and meaningless while allowing everyone to maintaining their own bigoted view of the other. Oh wait, I'm sorry I forgot this is the internet and rather then addressing things rationally we instead resort to saying mean things about people to show them how wrong is it to say mean things about other people. If you'll excuse me, I have to go and not be in a thread that will undoubtedly be filled with fail.

If they think SW:TOR is for kids they clearly haven't seen some of the dark side choices yet. I hate it when people get uppity about something like this and completely ignore the age rating on the game.

Roganzar:
Okay, I've played a lot of the Old Republic, where is the gay sex? I've completely missed it. None of the male characters even get a chance to hit on the guys and my female Sith pureblood Warrior should be totally seducing Jeesa by now. Jeesa would totally go for it.
Seriously, here is there gay anything in SW:ToR?

Nope, at least not yet. I thought it was in the game at launch.

The only "sexual" content I have seen in the game is

I thought the cast of The Jersey Shore were attention whores, kudos Christian family group for raising the bar.

Overwhelming percentage? Guess these people are overwhelmed by any number with more than 1 digit.

Heh. Idiots. Not all Star Wars games are for kids.
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2 anyone?

Yes, yes, there wasn't really any more violence than in any other SW game...
but it dealt with a lot of complex philosophical issues that would go right
over a kid's head. And these issues were so central to the story that most
kids would just scratch their heads in confusion when playing it.

I also fail to see how these homophobic bigots can claim that their views
are "family friendly." They are preaching nothing but hatred founded in ignorance.
That doesn't sound "friendly" at all to me, and is certainly not teaching lessons I would want to pass onto any hypothetical family I might have in the future.

But I don't have much to worry about here.

If the past is any indicator...
Bioware's response will be a well-written and well thought-out "fuck you" to these bigots.

mattaui:
More output from the moral outrage industry. These people need help if they worry so much about what other people are doing in their games or in their bedrooms, but everyone knows that. What's important to note is that this used to be the default, nationwide attitude, and now it's being reduced to a smaller and smaller group of extremists.

True, though its still important to call them out on their bullshit.

One of the reasons that these kinds of views used to be nationwide is that no one
really challenged them.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, WAIT, stop.

*ahem*

... Is there same-sex relationships in TOR? I haven't played it at all, so I wouldn't know, but... can you have same-sex relationships in that game? If they mean between player and player... you can't really stop that without getting rid of the player interactivity.

So...

Now I'm confused.

Since I began frequenting the internet my brain developed this type of gland that censors this type of stuff and instead of seeing the article I just see the words "This just in: People are still idiots."

First off, they're fucking ridiculousness, TOR's rated T by the ESRB, designating anyone 13 and older, last time I checked, a "child" is less than 13.
And secondly, rip, tear, hack, slash, maim, kill, mutilate, eviscerate, destroy! BUT DON'T YOU FUCKING DARE SHOW A COUPLE OF FAGGOTS!
That's pointing out how the violence in a game apparently doesn't matter anymore, as long as we don't show faggots!
Inb4 people going literal on me and saying that I mean they can't show cigarettes
I personally hate homosexuals, I think they're all annoying as shit and are all already going to hell, but it's 20-fucking-12, you've got to get used to it eventually!

Are you kidding me? I hope these people burn in the fictional hell they believe in. In this game, you can be a sith and legitimately electrocute prisoners to death FOR THE FUN OF IT. You chop people in half. You attack slaves with pure energy because you don't like them- That's just a Sith. A Bounty Hunter by definition is someone who KILLS people FOR MONEY. As a Scoundrel, you can get yourself into a sexual situation within the first 10 levels. These people are so annoyingly ignorant. A kiss is a kiss, no matter who's lips are doing the kissing. No matter what gender the lips are attached to. If they're offended by this, they should be equally offended by a guy and girl kissing. If they're offended by a flippin' kiss, they should wake the hell up, stop being so unrealistic, and realize we're in the 21st freaking century, no matter how bad that might be.

I'm gona get a little extreme here.

Genocide, perfectly acceptable. Same sex relationships..... worse.

Priorities are somewhat wrong there eh. And I'm now ignoring these ignorant boobs again.

5ilver:
The lack of objectivity hurts the article. It comes off as "heh those stupid parents, look at how dumb they are", which does not impress me.

Well they are pretty fucking dumb, objectively speaking.

Let's leave aside the issue of homosexuality for a moment and just look at the fact that a) they're complaining about the content of a game they claim is for children, when it is in fact a 16+ rated game; b) they're saying that because they don't like some of the content, the company should just leave it out entirely, rather than they as parents simply refuse to let their child play it.

Tell me that's not an objectively stupid argument.

"Stop impacting our children"

Dear Family Values Groups,
Uh, the only way in-game content can impact a child is if they play the game.
Here's a revolutionary idea- expand your "family values" to include the concept of parents actually doing some parenting.

If a game has some content that you feel is wrong, then don't buy it. Bioware isn't sending out hitmen to hold guns to your heads until you pay for the game and have your children start playing it.

So murder, torture (Han solo), Dozens of sex slaves who later get blown up chained to a dead slug mob boss, arms flying off left and right, and Darth Vader crushing someones windpipe and later blowing up an entire planet are all fine and dandy...but same sex relationships is where we draw the line......All hope is lost for this world.

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