U.S. Vice President: Games Are Not Being "Singled Out"

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Mycroft Holmes:

Pictured: The Yugoslavian plan put into operation to presumably hug the Slovenians and congratulate them on their 'totally not a violent war,' independence.

Well, truth be told, it only lasted 10 days, and casualties were low (44 dead, 146 wounded on Yugoslav People's Army side, 19 dead, 182 wounded on the Slovenian Territorial Defense side. Just over 4000 prisoners taken by the SLO side, which were promptly sent home after the Brioni Accord). Compared to what happened to the rest of Yugoslavia...yeah, we got off easy. Really, really easy.

So, in the light of the fall of Yugoslavia, this really was "totally not a violent war". Still, yes, our people had to fight for independence. The support of Germany and the Holy See for Slovenian independence helped a lot to bring the involved parties to the table to negotiate and away from shooting at each other.

Sorry, I struck a tangent here.

Mycroft Holmes:

Strazdas:

You never said western countries, i merely sticked mostly with Europe due to me knowing about them more than eastern ones.

If you're trying to prove that America is more violent than other western countries, because it was birthed through armed conflict, then I would assume it follows that your examples should be western countries. Otherwise your thesis makes no sense. Not that it matters because your only really unarguable example of Tibet was founded in a war that caused 100,000 or 1,000,000 deaths if you want to count The Great Leap Forward that their new government immediately brought.

And I can't think of a single 'eastern' country that was founded in peace.

America is more violent than whole world. Yes, even war zones. Americas violence rate is higher than that of a war zone. if that is acceptable to you i dont even know what to say.

fix-the-spade:

Rogue 09:

Yes, other countries have less guns and few rates of gun violence. Thank you for sharing the obvious. I would think that countries without popsicles have fewer instances of flavored ice being eaten. The goal is to look at 1) Total Violence / Crime and 2) Instances of weapons being used to deter criminal acts.

Other countries are no less violent than America, they just use messier means in order to fulfill their quotas.

That's a load of balls sir.

America has a higher murder rate (as in murders per 100'000 people per year) than Palestine, Palestine, as in the people in a permanent slap fight with Isreal. It's the highest murder rate in the first world. It's even a higher murder rate than Afghanistan, including combat deaths. Let me repeat that for you, the murder rate per 100'000 population in the US is higher than Afghanistan, meaning that an American soldier is statistically twice as likely to killed at home than he is on deployment.
Of course the numbers don't quite reflect reality (unless the NRA breaks out the suicide vests in response to gun control), but it highlights how big a problem the US has with violence when the averages say you're safer in a literal warzone.

Americans seem love killing each other and they love doing it with guns, all that rhetoric about self defence rings hollow when the top illegal acts with fire arms are suicide and homicide. America is like a Junkie with it's drugs when it comes to guns, unfortunately it's going to take something far worse than Sandy Hook (or Virginia Tech, Columbine, Aurora etc) to make the country look at itself and realise how farcical the attitudes surrounding weapons are.

Research I've done has turned up that statistically the region with the most number of homicides per year is Africa as a whole, not the US. And it looks to have a pretty comfortable lead too. Compared to many countries on that continent, the US is far down the list.

Also, Afghanistan has a population around 30.4 million compared to the US's population of around 315 million. And the population of the largest cities in Afghanistan is far far less than in the US. Their top 10 most populous cities would have to be combined to compare with the population of New York City.

The people who have done mass shootings represent less than .0001% of the national population.
Something to note that overall crime AND violent crime has been steadily decreasing in the US, despite these shootings. Media is the reason people freak out so much. If you cut away all the other stuff statistically things are improving.

Media from the US seems to travel around the world more and people just love to hate on us, like your post does. Just because 1 in millions and millions of people might misuse a gun doesn't really make it reasonable to say things like "Americans seem love killing each other and they love doing it with guns..." Shameful, really.

Mass School Killings since 2000 Dead/Wounded

2011 Brazil 12/12 Gun used
2009 Azerbaijan 12/13 Gun used
2009 Germany 15/13 Gun used
2008 Finland 10/3 Gun used
2006 China 12/5 Arson
2002 Germany 16/1 Gun used

2010 in China was apparently really bad with this sort of thing.
Approximately 18 people went berserk with sickening numbers of casualties. Most were children/students. Most were with fire, hammers, and knives.

And this is just school stuff, there are so many more than are scarcely heard about that involve random killings, hate crimes, religiously motivated, and so on. It's not just guns and it's not just the US. And it's certainly not games or media like some say, this sort of thing has been happening throughout recorded history.

Mycroft Holmes:

Name countries that weren't born in 'violance' and blood.

Sweden. The first king of Sweden did wage a war, but that was against the Danes. Sweden was formed by the chiefs swearing loyalty to King Eric the Victorious, whom both the Swedes and Geats accepted as king. Then he had to fight off an invasion from the Jomsvikings.

Still, Sweden is a lot older than the US and 200 years of peace is quite a good way to get rid of a violent culture. So even if the birth of the country was violent, that culture is not left.

disgruntledgamer:
There is a silver bullet it's called Gun control/regulation, or it's at least 90% of the bullet. Seriously the US has one of the worlds worst gun regulation policy's and it wonders why it has one of the highest gun related crimes/murder rates?

Look at other first world countries stricter gun laws, and than look at their lower gun related crimes and murder rates. They have the same violent movies and games you do it's not rocket science to figure what the problem is. You don't want to regulate your guns better, don't expect gun related incidents to go down.

The problem isn't the gun laws. It's our societal conception of guns. The gun laws and these shootings (to my mind) have a spurious relationship. They're both being caused by a 3rd factor: Our understanding of guns.

America has the laws we do because of how we as a society understand guns. FPS games are very popular in America for this same reason. These shootings also happen for this reason.

If we really want to stop these sort of things, we as a culture need to take a closer look at the way we glorify guns and the impact that has on our understanding of them and what they do.

But confronting that reality is a bit much for some people so....

More affirmation Joe Biden's a pretty cool guy, as if we needed more after the VP debate.

BoogieManFL:

fix-the-spade:

Rogue 09:

Yes, other countries have less guns and few rates of gun violence. Thank you for sharing the obvious. I would think that countries without popsicles have fewer instances of flavored ice being eaten. The goal is to look at 1) Total Violence / Crime and 2) Instances of weapons being used to deter criminal acts.

Other countries are no less violent than America, they just use messier means in order to fulfill their quotas.

That's a load of balls sir.

America has a higher murder rate (as in murders per 100'000 people per year) than Palestine, Palestine, as in the people in a permanent slap fight with Isreal. It's the highest murder rate in the first world. It's even a higher murder rate than Afghanistan, including combat deaths. Let me repeat that for you, the murder rate per 100'000 population in the US is higher than Afghanistan, meaning that an American soldier is statistically twice as likely to killed at home than he is on deployment.
Of course the numbers don't quite reflect reality (unless the NRA breaks out the suicide vests in response to gun control), but it highlights how big a problem the US has with violence when the averages say you're safer in a literal warzone.

Americans seem love killing each other and they love doing it with guns, all that rhetoric about self defence rings hollow when the top illegal acts with fire arms are suicide and homicide. America is like a Junkie with it's drugs when it comes to guns, unfortunately it's going to take something far worse than Sandy Hook (or Virginia Tech, Columbine, Aurora etc) to make the country look at itself and realise how farcical the attitudes surrounding weapons are.

Research I've done has turned up that statistically the country with the most number of homicides per year is Africa as a whole, not the US. And it looks to have a pretty comfortable lead too.

Also, Afghanistan has a population around 30.4 million compared to the US's population of around 315 million. And the population of the largest cities in Afghanistan is far far less than in the US. Their top 10 most populous cities would have to be combined to compare with the population of New York City.

The people who have done mass shootings represent less than .0001% of the national population.
Something to note that overall crime AND violent crime has been steadily decreasing in the US, despite these shootings. Media is the reason people freak out so much. If you cut away all the other stuff statistically things are improving.

Media from the US seems to travel around the world more and people just love to hate on us, like your post does. Just because 1 in millions and millions of people might misuse a gun doesn't really make it reasonable to say things like "Americans seem love killing each other and they love doing it with guns..." Shameful, really.

Mass School Killings since 2000 Dead/Wounded

2011 Brazil 12/12 Gun used
2009 Azerbaijan 12/13 Gun used
2009 Germany 15/13 Gun used
2008 Finland 10/3 Gun used
2006 China 12/5 Arson
2002 Germany 16/1 Gun used

2010 in China was apparently really bad with this sort of thing.
Approximately 18 people went berserk with sickening numbers of casualties. Most were children/students. Most were with fire, hammers, and knives.

And this is just school stuff, there are so many more than are scarcely heard about that involve random killings, hate crimes, religiously motivated, and so on. It's not just guns and it's not just the US. And it's certainly not games or media like some say, this sort of thing has been happening throughout recorded history.

I like you. I'd like to follow up your post with this, in case you haven't seen it, and to any one else, I'd urge to watch it.

Strazdas:

Mycroft Holmes:

Strazdas:

You never said western countries, i merely sticked mostly with Europe due to me knowing about them more than eastern ones.

If you're trying to prove that America is more violent than other western countries, because it was birthed through armed conflict, then I would assume it follows that your examples should be western countries. Otherwise your thesis makes no sense. Not that it matters because your only really unarguable example of Tibet was founded in a war that caused 100,000 or 1,000,000 deaths if you want to count The Great Leap Forward that their new government immediately brought.

And I can't think of a single 'eastern' country that was founded in peace.

America is more violent than whole world. Yes, even war zones. Americas violence rate is higher than that of a war zone. if that is acceptable to you i dont even know what to say.

What a ridiculous and uninformed claim. War is more than just people being shot and directly killed. Many more yet die due to famine and infrastructural collapse. In Ethiopia there were over 20,000 homicides during 2008 alone. The UN did a report on 2011 on Homicides per capita and the US wasn't in the top 20. Go read about Honduras.

tangoprime:

BoogieManFL:

fix-the-spade:

That's a load of balls sir.

America has a higher murder rate (as in murders per 100'000 people per year) than Palestine, Palestine, as in the people in a permanent slap fight with Isreal. It's the highest murder rate in the first world. It's even a higher murder rate than Afghanistan, including combat deaths. Let me repeat that for you, the murder rate per 100'000 population in the US is higher than Afghanistan, meaning that an American soldier is statistically twice as likely to killed at home than he is on deployment.
Of course the numbers don't quite reflect reality (unless the NRA breaks out the suicide vests in response to gun control), but it highlights how big a problem the US has with violence when the averages say you're safer in a literal warzone.

Americans seem love killing each other and they love doing it with guns, all that rhetoric about self defence rings hollow when the top illegal acts with fire arms are suicide and homicide. America is like a Junkie with it's drugs when it comes to guns, unfortunately it's going to take something far worse than Sandy Hook (or Virginia Tech, Columbine, Aurora etc) to make the country look at itself and realise how farcical the attitudes surrounding weapons are.

Research I've done has turned up that statistically the country with the most number of homicides per year is Africa as a whole, not the US. And it looks to have a pretty comfortable lead too.

Also, Afghanistan has a population around 30.4 million compared to the US's population of around 315 million. And the population of the largest cities in Afghanistan is far far less than in the US. Their top 10 most populous cities would have to be combined to compare with the population of New York City.

The people who have done mass shootings represent less than .0001% of the national population.
Something to note that overall crime AND violent crime has been steadily decreasing in the US, despite these shootings. Media is the reason people freak out so much. If you cut away all the other stuff statistically things are improving.

Media from the US seems to travel around the world more and people just love to hate on us, like your post does. Just because 1 in millions and millions of people might misuse a gun doesn't really make it reasonable to say things like "Americans seem love killing each other and they love doing it with guns..." Shameful, really.

Mass School Killings since 2000 Dead/Wounded

2011 Brazil 12/12 Gun used
2009 Azerbaijan 12/13 Gun used
2009 Germany 15/13 Gun used
2008 Finland 10/3 Gun used
2006 China 12/5 Arson
2002 Germany 16/1 Gun used

2010 in China was apparently really bad with this sort of thing.
Approximately 18 people went berserk with sickening numbers of casualties. Most were children/students. Most were with fire, hammers, and knives.

And this is just school stuff, there are so many more than are scarcely heard about that involve random killings, hate crimes, religiously motivated, and so on. It's not just guns and it's not just the US. And it's certainly not games or media like some say, this sort of thing has been happening throughout recorded history.

I like you. I'd like to follow up your post with this, in case you haven't seen it, and to any one else, I'd urge to watch it.

That's a good video, and perfectly illustrates this issue. People will ramble on about what they hear, but very few will actually go educate themselves and learn unbiased facts.

Glad to see the VP understands this is a problem with no straightforward solution and not bound to just one cause. Shows he's actually on the problem and not pandering to each organization demonizing each other.

Now time to bail before this becomes another "Are guns the devil or not" thread.

You can't argue that the US is not a violent country. In our two hundred plus year history, we haven't even known more then thirty years of peace. We've been at war at almost ninety percent of our history.

BoogieManFL:

strazdas:

America is more violent than whole world. Yes, even war zones. Americas violence rate is higher than that of a war zone. if that is acceptable to you i dont even know what to say.

What a ridiculous and uninformed claim. War is more than just people being shot and directly killed. Many more yet die due to famine and infrastructural collapse. In Ethiopia there were over 20,000 homicides during 2008 alone. The UN did a report on 2011 on Homicides per capita and the US wasn't in the top 20. Go read about Honduras.

Way to sidetrack the topic. We are talking about violence, not about "other bad things in war". obviously there are other things than violence during war, i do not deny that. Im not sure about UN report, but of course in Ethiopia there is a high homicide rate. you know what else is high there? access to guns.
but let me quote you a person from this VERY OWN THREAD:

fix-the-spade:

America has a higher murder rate (as in murders per 100'000 people per year) than Palestine, Palestine, as in the people in a permanent slap fight with Isreal. It's the highest murder rate in the first world. It's even a higher murder rate than Afghanistan, including combat deaths. Let me repeat that for you, the murder rate per 100'000 population in the US is higher than Afghanistan, meaning that an American soldier is statistically twice as likely to killed at home than he is on deployment.
Of course the numbers don't quite reflect reality (unless the NRA breaks out the suicide vests in response to gun control), but it highlights how big a problem the US has with violence when the averages say you're safer in a literal warzone.

Americans seem love killing each other and they love doing it with guns, all that rhetoric about self defence rings hollow when the top illegal acts with fire arms are suicide and homicide. America is like a Junkie with it's drugs when it comes to guns, unfortunately it's going to take something far worse than Sandy Hook (or Virginia Tech, Columbine, Aurora etc) to make the country look at itself and realise how farcical the attitudes surrounding weapons are.

BoogieManFL:
Research I've done has turned up that statistically the region with the most number of homicides per year is Africa as a whole, not the US. And it looks to have a pretty comfortable lead too. Compared to many countries on that continent, the US is far down the list..

The murder rate is calculated per 100'000 of population per year, it accounts for population size difference and Americans still kill each other at twice the rate of Afghans.

Also, if you went back and read it through again, America is the most violent nation in the first world. That rules out the entire continent of Africa, even Egypt and South Africa.

Also, because bad things happen in other countries, it doesn't yours doesn't have a problem, or that it isn't the worst in the group it likes to identify itself as the leader of.

You're making a straw man argument, arguing points slightly different to the ones I made, please go back and address the actual thing I said.

Also, Americans really do love killing each other with guns, the fervor with which they threaten anyone who dares question their access to guns is what gives it away.

The amount of people focusing on Riccitiello's presence disappoints me. You are missing the point so much you would need a map to find it...

Do you think the vice president cares about The Old Republic or Mass Effect 3? Are you so self-centered to think the CEO of a publisher you didn't like is some sort of cartoon villain? He is far more relevant to the topic at hand that almost any person I could know. Do you actually think he got there by being stupid and self destructive? Because, let me tell you, from here you don't look so hot either.

Ok, so he may not be blaming videogames, but that doesn't mean there aren't groups of other masses that are.

Strazdas:

America is more violent than whole world. Yes, even war zones. Americas violence rate is higher than that of a war zone. if that is acceptable to you i dont even know what to say.

I don't really even know how to respond to this. Are you just blatantly ignoring facts? Or have you just done absolutely zero research to support your theories, and just assume you're right for no reason?

See how there's a ton of countries with way higher murder rates? That's hopefully called cognitive dissonance; but I'm probably being idealist in that regard.

You want to talk about war zones? lets talk war zones. The New York Times says death rates have passed 60,000 since fighting began in Syria last November making this a little over a year of conflict. The US had 14,748 deaths by murder in a years time.

We have 311,591,917 people, meaning that your chances of dying by murder in the US are 1 in 21128 for any given year. Syria has 22,530,746 people and 60,000 violent deaths in a year and two weeks. Meaning your chances of being shot or blown up or murdered in Syria are 1 in 376. And you honestly think that's better? You would take a 1:376 chance to die, over a 1:21128 one? A death rate that is freaking 56 times higher per capita and you think that's 'less violent?' Really?

Here lets name some countries from the latest surveys that have higher murder rates and therefore higher violence rates:

Russia
Jamaica
Bahamas
Puerto Rico
Mexico
Brazil
Greenland
Myanmar
British Virgin Islands
Cayman Islands
Madagascar
Indonesia
Pakistan
Moldova
Lithuania
Philippines
Ukraine
Belarus
Cuba

And that isn't even half the list.

Yeah, actually, I'm pretty sure John Riccitiello is the cause for all harm and evil in this world.

viking97:
More affirmation Joe Biden's a pretty cool guy, as if we needed more after the VP debate.

This is stuff!

fix-the-spade:

BoogieManFL:
Research I've done has turned up that statistically the region with the most number of homicides per year is Africa as a whole, not the US. And it looks to have a pretty comfortable lead too. Compared to many countries on that continent, the US is far down the list..

The murder rate is calculated per 100'000 of population per year, it accounts for population size difference and Americans still kill each other at twice the rate of Afghans.

Also, if you went back and read it through again, America is the most violent nation in the first world. That rules out the entire continent of Africa, even Egypt and South Africa.

Also, because bad things happen in other countries, it doesn't yours doesn't have a problem, or that it isn't the worst in the group it likes to identify itself as the leader of.

You're making a straw man argument, arguing points slightly different to the ones I made, please go back and address the actual thing I said.

Also, Americans really do love killing each other with guns, the fervor with which they threaten anyone who dares question their access to guns is what gives it away.

More people may die by guns in the US than other places, but we don't have the highest overall *violent* crime rates. Not even close.

My overall point, the main deal here isn't gun violence but violence in itself. Controlling guns more is a band aid. It will help, but it sure isn't the cause and is it going to make a huge difference even if magically guns were able to be erased from civilian use.

I'm all for more gun control myself, but I find it very tiresome when people use things that sound almost like hate speech to illustrate their point. That would be like saying "Those Japanese sure do love to kill themselves!" because their country has among the highest rates of suicide. And America isn't unique in it's mass murders. You just hear about it more.

My issue with the quoted post is mostly about it's poor choice of words and how it seems to lay so much blame on just gun violence which is only one aspect of many.

Careful what you wish for guys.
Remember when Japan banned porn? what did the industry do then? that's right, tentacles.
What's gunna happen if you ban guns? new weapons that will circumnavigate the system, most likely involving tentacles, lemons, lighting, and boomerangs.

Games arent being singled out... our 2nd amendment is.

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