Game of Thrones Writer Inspired by Breaking Bad's Evil Protagonist

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j0frenzy:
Thing I've learned today: a lot of people don't consider Walt outright evil. There's probably a good article about media distorting our views of morality.

I see this a lot, and I'd be lying if I said it doesn't bug me that I have my morals questioned every time I point out that Walter White isn't evil. That's just silly.

As I said before, I don't think he's a good person, but in no way do I believe him to be evil. Evil suggests that he has no redeeming qualities, and/or does things for purely malicious reasons. As demonstrated in the latest episode (incidentally, the one a lot of people use as 'proof' of his evil), this is simply not true.

In short, hate him all you want, call him a terrible person, but 'evil' goes further, and simply does not apply to Walt.

And please don't suggest my morality is 'distorted', I find it rather offensive.

Abomination:

toms:

Abomination:
I actually think Martin should try and do a coalition with another writer. Martin and they sit down every time with Martin just emptying his brain of ideas, plots, characters, developments and the universe with the other party focusing on putting it together in a cohesive narrative.

On top of that when Martin (inevitably but certainly unfortunately) passes there will be a writer to pick up that torch and have an understanding as to where to take the world of Westeros.

One can dream...

And at the same time it's great to see writers feeding off each other as I feel that can lead to some truly complex and amazing stories/settings/characters.

He should team up with Terry Pratchett, I'd read that.

While it would probably be a match made in heaven... Pratchett is in an unfortunate similar circumstance. What with him supposedly having suffered a stroke that was misdiagnosed as Alzheimer's.

There is -another- Pratchett who could step in though?

I think Neil Gaiman would probably be a better fit to Martin's bleakness of writing. And Gaiman and Pratchett have similar styles, it's just that Gaiman's always been the darker writer.

TsunamiWombat:
Since when was Walt evil? Wasn't he doing all of this to raise money for his family? Hasn't he avoided killing in the past?

ZombieFanatic:

j0frenzy:
Thing I've learned today: a lot of people don't consider Walt outright evil. There's probably a good article about media distorting our views of morality.

I see this a lot, and I'd be lying if I said it doesn't bug me that I have my morals questioned every time I point out that Walter White isn't evil. That's just silly.

As I said before, I don't think he's a good person, but in no way do I believe him to be evil. Evil suggests that he has no redeeming qualities, and/or does things for purely malicious reasons. As demonstrated in the latest episode (incidentally, the one a lot of people use as 'proof' of his evil), this is simply not true.

In short, hate him all you want, call him a terrible person, but 'evil' goes further, and simply does not apply to Walt.

And please don't suggest my morality is 'distorted', I find it rather offensive.

Hitler was good to his wife, too. Does that make him not evil?

Kwil:
Hitler was good to his wife, too. Does that make him not evil?

That's an unfair comparison and you know it. Walt wasn't 'good to his wife', he essentially threw away everything he had worked for in order to bail her out.

As this argument has already reached the point where Walt is being likened to Hitler(!), I see no point in my continued participation.

And this is why I am not interested in Game of thrones as much as I used to be. He writes just to kick his readers in the balls, but I guess some people like that sort of thing.

ZombieFanatic:

j0frenzy:
Thing I've learned today: a lot of people don't consider Walt outright evil. There's probably a good article about media distorting our views of morality.

I see this a lot, and I'd be lying if I said it doesn't bug me that I have my morals questioned every time I point out that Walter White isn't evil. That's just silly.

As I said before, I don't think he's a good person, but in no way do I believe him to be evil. Evil suggests that he has no redeeming qualities, and/or does things for purely malicious reasons. As demonstrated in the latest episode (incidentally, the one a lot of people use as 'proof' of his evil), this is simply not true.

In short, hate him all you want, call him a terrible person, but 'evil' goes further, and simply does not apply to Walt.

And please don't suggest my morality is 'distorted', I find it rather offensive.

I'm going to respond by PMs to avoid having to spoiler text most of this conversation.

God I cant imagine it getting worse.

I skimmed it and literally could not imagine reading it all.
"hmm rape.....oooh more rape...oh murder....some torture...more torture....raped while tortured then murdered...huh"

Yeah not for me.
Decent quality though.

ZombieFanatic:

Kwil:
Hitler was good to his wife, too. Does that make him not evil?

That's an unfair comparison and you know it. Walt wasn't 'good to his wife', he essentially threw away everything he had worked for in order to bail her out.

As this argument has already reached the point where Walt is being likened to Hitler(!), I see no point in my continued participation.

It's a perfectly valid comparison. The rhetorical technique is called reductio ad absurdum. Taking the underlying point of your post.. that doing good things means a person isn't evil, and taking it to its furthest lengths to show that the point itself is absurd. If Hitler is too hard for you to understand, perhaps John Wayne Gacy is more your style. Well liked in the community, he organized cultural gatherings for it and was invited to children's parties as a clown performer.

He also killed 33 people.


I'm sorry. You don't get to come back from that later and say, "Well I gave up all I was working for so that my wife wouldn't go to prison.. because of what I was doing."

Sight Unseen:

NameIsRobertPaulson:

Adam Jensen:
Every time I hear news about G.R.R. Martin I get scared. What the hell is he going to do now to some of my favorite fantasy literature characters? Hopefully Daenerys and Arya won't end up dead.

Dany is essentially the heroine (if there is one), and has had so many "kick the puppy" moments done to her that I don't think even George can stand to wail on her anymore.

Dany is tied with Jon Snow with the greatest odds of surviving the series. My favorite character (Cersei) still lives simply because George actively hates his readership's opinions.

Dany is essentially the heroine (if there is one)

...

Eddard Stark

Robb Stark

Catelyn Stark

I think your argument is invalidated.

Also have you read the books, because

Also I think Arya and Dany are two of the MOST likely characters NOT to survive the coming winter, but that's just my opinion.

NameIsRobertPaulson:

Sight Unseen:

NameIsRobertPaulson:

Dany is essentially the heroine (if there is one), and has had so many "kick the puppy" moments done to her that I don't think even George can stand to wail on her anymore.

Dany is tied with Jon Snow with the greatest odds of surviving the series. My favorite character (Cersei) still lives simply because George actively hates his readership's opinions.

Dany is essentially the heroine (if there is one)

...

Eddard Stark

Robb Stark

Catelyn Stark

I think your argument is invalidated.

Also have you read the books, because

Also I think Arya and Dany are two of the MOST likely characters NOT to survive the coming winter, but that's just my opinion.

tmande2nd:
God I cant imagine it getting worse.

I skimmed it and literally could not imagine reading it all.
"hmm rape.....oooh more rape...oh murder....some torture...more torture....raped while tortured then murdered...huh"

Yeah not for me.
Decent quality though.

What??? What parts did you read? While yes there is certainly some mentioned rape and some small amounts of torture (mostly in the later books though) it is by no means a regular occurrence in the main plot of the story

ZombieFanatic:
...As demonstrated in the latest episode (incidentally, the one a lot of people use as 'proof' of his evil), this is simply not true.


...

The problem is that is seems most people, apparently G.R.R. Martin included, missed that point about the episode.

Adam Jensen:
Hopefully Daenerys and Arya won't end up dead.

I don't think you have to worry about Dany dying, seemed like the author had a massive hard on for her before I started skipping her chapters.

Makabriel:

Gethsemani:

Considering that the series throws in at least 2 sex/nude women scenes per episode, I am not surprised. The problem isn't really whatever or not there's lots of sex, it is that whenever it shows up (and sex or the shape of a woman's body/breasts shows up about once a chapter, minimum) it often feels jarringly out of place. As Film Crit Hulk says: The prose and tone takes a wrong turn and changes into something that sounds more at home in a teenagers slash-fic than in the solid prose that Martin otherwise exhibits.

The fact that I, and many others, might think there's more sex then there is is the entire problem. Because it just shows that we register it because it takes us out of our "groove" when reading those particular parts. Even if they aren't prominent, they are indicative of poor writing since they seem to be what people remember.

Just to clear the air, I understand your point of view. I can see where you're coming from.

You can't judge it from the HBO show though... It's a cable channel it's what they do, heh. I agree that there are moments in the book where it is mentioned frequently as well, but it is in the tone of the story. I never was pulled out of the story by the mention of nudity or sex or whatever.

I dunno, I suppose after reading things like Laura Hamilton, or even Anne Rice.. the mention of nudity in a book just doesn't jar me as much as someone else.

The sex moments in the book are incredibly uncomfortable for me, mostly because i do my reading outside.
There i am reading at the park there are children and dogs everywhere and suddenly there is a sex scene between danny and her slave and its porn, and she is a child, and im reading child porn in front of children

achicoria3:

The sex moments in the book are incredibly uncomfortable for me, mostly because i do my reading outside.
There i am reading at the park there are children and dogs everywhere and suddenly there is a sex scene between danny and her slave and its porn, and she is a child, and im reading child porn in front of children

Hah! I get that. I read at work a lot and when I get to those I tend to start speed reading..

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