Tropes vs Anita Sarkeesian and Gamers Against Games

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NeverSoGrandiose:

Kalezian:
ATTENTION ESCAPISTS:

Critical Distance aspires to be a safe space. We do not link to works which contain hate speech or are abusive toward individuals, and individuals or organizations who have demonstrated a history of abuse. Bigotry and toxicity are not welcome in these pages. If we have to link to something abusive for the sake of context, or if something deals with a tough subject in a way that might be triggering to others (for instance, a post on sexism might recount the author's experience with abuse), it will in all circumstances be bracketed by content warnings.

From: http://www.critical-distance.com/about/

I don't get it. Is that supposed to be a bad thing? Looks like a great policy to me.

They wont link articles that are toxic, and yet 3/4ths of the OP is toxic articles that can be labeled as harassing.

But I find it odd that you picked just that part out and not the part where Zoe Quinn's friends financially support Critical Distance, which just so happened to post nothing but anti-gamer articles.

Can we PLEASE stop talking about nebulous misogynist threats that may or may not have happened to people like Anita Sarkeesian? If all the doxxing and Twitter rage has taught me anything, it's that nobody on either side is going to get anywhere trying to address the SJW side of things. It's better for everyone involved to just ignore it.

No, the major issue is this:

Loss of credibility (if there was any in the first place) and corruption in games journalism.

THAT'S the underlying issue. THAT'S what people like myself want to see explored here. THAT'S what these outlets have systematically refused to even talk about, much less discuss.

I don't care if the "five guys" slept with a man, a woman or a purple-tentacled octojangulus from Climax VII. Trading sexual favors for positive coverage is a massive conflict of interest, and it needs to be addressed, not swept under the rug in favor of "gamers hate teh wimmenz!"

small:

Hero in a half shell:

small:

if they are saying that specifically then they should be called out on it and so should any of the other side who says people should be raped or killed.

you really need to drop the CAPS!!! it doesnt give your sentence a bonus score and you arent going to make me join your side because of it.

The problem is that there is no one left to call them out. The media is utterly controlled by these people, and we're slowly realising just how deep the rabbit hole goes.

This is the second time I've posted this vid, but it needs to be seen:

(Skip to 5:25 - 6:00 if you can't be assed to watch the full thing, but I highly recommend it)

Basically, there is a single company that owns Kotaku, Gamasutra, Polygon, Gamespot, Destructoid and the Daily Beast. All these game websites have the same PR company - Silverstream Media. They also do PR for Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian. And Zoe Quinn had a relationship with her PR representative at the company.

The PR firm is a very, very, ideological feminist/social justice think tank - religiously so.

That explains why all of these companies have been getting progressively strict on 'Social Justice' issues, and why not only did they refuse to report on the Zoe Quinn scandal, but actively went into full scale damage control mode, misrepresenting the facts and denying any negatives of the feminists, that culminated in a single day blitz of "Death of Gamers" stories - all sites producing an article talking about how the toxic gamer culture was over, and even referencing each others articles, despite being released on the same day!

The people saying gamers should die are not denounced, because they are the mainstream media and spokespeople of this social justice movement. Complete with T-shirts (designed and marketed by the same PR representative Zoe Quinn slept with) http://teespring.com/cuties

Very few gamers would argue with making more games that have positive female protagonists, stronger female characters in general, and less sexualised levels and characters, but I don't think these things should be got rid of entirely.

Lets address some issues with your post for starters.. Im a freelancer researcher so i dont take coments on face value I do my own research

- Those gaming sites are not all owned by the same company; for example:
Gawker media owns gawker, Defamer, Jezebel, Gizmodo, Lifehacker, Jalopnik, Deadspin, io9 & Kotaku
destructoid is owned by Yanier Gonzalez who is the CEO of modern method a web development firm

- Silverstream media is not a PR company, they are an experimental game developer that helps people make games basically, and yes they have feminist perspective. an example of one of their games is http://glitchhikers.com/ for instance
They dont represent anita sarkeesian(that woman has a hard to spell name) or zoe Quinn
Anita sarkeesian is an adviser to the company not represented by them
as for the relationship, if true, i dont see how its relevant as they dont represent her and dont do PR for the companies you mentioned

People tend to believe what they are told on the net if it appears to fit their particular beliefs and not many people actually check what they are told

SilverStream Media just updated their front page today to include their little "we aren't a PR firm ;)" tag.

Pastebin docs on SilverStream, by the way, found a few hours earlier: http://pastebin.com/jrLJyp0W

See, anyone can be a researcher.

Edit: and honestly, if your research consists of looking at the main page, and then "about us" section, you are a pretty bad researcher.

Did you even think about looking at Critical Distances Patreon?

Did you even see that SilverStrings is a supporter of Critical Distance, and CD is their sole Patreon?

That didn't seem a bit odd for a company that's been around for a while now?

One with such influential individuals in the industry only supporting one content creator?

Kalezian:

They wont link articles that are toxic, and yet 3/4ths of the OP is toxic articles that can be labeled as harassing.

Are you sure we're reading the same articles? Because those articles I read were admonishing harassment.

Kalezian:
But I find it odd that you picked just that part out and not the part where Zoe Quinn's friends financially support Critical Distance, which just so happened to post nothing but anti-gamer articles.

Nothing odd about not believing your tinfoil hat conspiracies. That's just good sense.

Neverhoodian:
Trading sexual favors for positive coverage is a massive conflict of interest, and it needs to be addressed, not swept under the rug in favor of "gamers hate teh wimmenz!"

It's also something for which no evidence has ever been shown to exist. Which is, of course, why no journalist picked up on the story, and why the only stories circulating now are about the shitstorm.

Ronack:
Uh-huh.

So, euh ... who thought this'd be a bright idea? I mean, in a forum where the (as of now) second largest thread proves we're smart enough to know otherwise ... how did you even think it'd be a smart idea to promote this? I mean, we can tear everything in this article to shreds with relative easy, you know that right? It's like you're trolls baiting us to react.

This is critical distance. basically a link-dump-wrapped-as-article from a person that does not read or care about whats on this site. its just advertisement hidden under news. so they had no way to know we are smarter than to believe what was said here.

The Rogue Wolf:
It's pathetic, in every definition of the word. The lack of maturity and perspective is staggering. It's no wonder we can't have reasonable discussions on anything- nobody is reasonable; everyone is ready to retreat to their camps, bar the gates and arm the cannons the moment any sort of dissent appears.

I noticed that more "Reasonable" people tend to say their thing and then distance themselves from the whole flamewar going on, so they are far less obviuos to somone that follows the drama.

Baresark:
It's the same for people who think reviews are supposed to be some sort of fact, and then get mad when people enjoy a game that has a few shortcomings.

Reviews should be factual. When i read a review i want to know what kind of game mechanics are there, whats the control scheme, variety of missions, unit models, AI complexity. I do NOT want to know that the reviewer was late for work because he gamed too long into the night.

AkaDad:

This type of behavior has been happening to women for decades. The irony here is that now the shoe's on the other foot, now that white males are getting the same treatment, it's outrageous.

Those examples you provided of bad behavior is unfortunate and those people shouldn't be taking seriously, but if male gamers would have been as outraged in the past over the same behavior, we wouldn't be where we are now.

So in order to combat something you dont like you are going to be doing exactly the thing you dont like to others. not hypocritical at all right?

How are you better than those people then?

Capcha: Gangnam style

Oh you....

Kalezian:

small:

Hero in a half shell:

The problem is that there is no one left to call them out. The media is utterly controlled by these people, and we're slowly realising just how deep the rabbit hole goes.

This is the second time I've posted this vid, but it needs to be seen:

(Skip to 5:25 - 6:00 if you can't be assed to watch the full thing, but I highly recommend it)

Basically, there is a single company that owns Kotaku, Gamasutra, Polygon, Gamespot, Destructoid and the Daily Beast. All these game websites have the same PR company - Silverstream Media. They also do PR for Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian. And Zoe Quinn had a relationship with her PR representative at the company.

The PR firm is a very, very, ideological feminist/social justice think tank - religiously so.

That explains why all of these companies have been getting progressively strict on 'Social Justice' issues, and why not only did they refuse to report on the Zoe Quinn scandal, but actively went into full scale damage control mode, misrepresenting the facts and denying any negatives of the feminists, that culminated in a single day blitz of "Death of Gamers" stories - all sites producing an article talking about how the toxic gamer culture was over, and even referencing each others articles, despite being released on the same day!

The people saying gamers should die are not denounced, because they are the mainstream media and spokespeople of this social justice movement. Complete with T-shirts (designed and marketed by the same PR representative Zoe Quinn slept with) http://teespring.com/cuties

Very few gamers would argue with making more games that have positive female protagonists, stronger female characters in general, and less sexualised levels and characters, but I don't think these things should be got rid of entirely.

Lets address some issues with your post for starters.. Im a freelancer researcher so i dont take coments on face value I do my own research

- Those gaming sites are not all owned by the same company; for example:
Gawker media owns gawker, Defamer, Jezebel, Gizmodo, Lifehacker, Jalopnik, Deadspin, io9 & Kotaku
destructoid is owned by Yanier Gonzalez who is the CEO of modern method a web development firm

- Silverstream media is not a PR company, they are an experimental game developer that helps people make games basically, and yes they have feminist perspective. an example of one of their games is http://glitchhikers.com/ for instance
They dont represent anita sarkeesian(that woman has a hard to spell name) or zoe Quinn
Anita sarkeesian is an adviser to the company not represented by them
as for the relationship, if true, i dont see how its relevant as they dont represent her and dont do PR for the companies you mentioned

People tend to believe what they are told on the net if it appears to fit their particular beliefs and not many people actually check what they are told

SilverStream Media just updated their front page today to include their little "we aren't a PR firm ;)" tag.

Pastebin docs on SilverStream, by the way, found a few hours earlier: http://pastebin.com/jrLJyp0W

See, anyone can be a researcher.

Edit: and honestly, if your research consists of looking at the main page, and then "about us" section, you are a pretty bad researcher.

Did you even think about looking at Critical Distances Patreon?

Did you even see that SilverStrings is a supporter of Critical Distance, and CD is their sole Patreon?

That didn't seem a bit odd for a company that's been around for a while now?

One with such influential individuals in the industry only supporting one content creator?

for starters dont get snarky with me and lets keep this civil

secondly it is understandable silverstring would update their main page to say we are not a PR company when there is wrong information and claims they are one running around the net at the moment

The pastebin shows that silverstring is feminist based. yes i did more research on silver string than their front page and about me. they have been making experimental games for a few years.. hence game developer and company thats helps people tell their story in a game , which is a concept i havent seen a company do before, there is no evidence they are a PR company nor that they do PR for the companies you mentioned.

unsurprising that silverstring would support critical distance considering critical distances aim is to "this is about highlighting the thinkers and doers who elevate games to new critical heights within our culture" and critical distance also have a policy of making a safe place and not linking to abuse, etc (see the comment above by someone) their support for critical distance currently is approval for the article that appears here on the escapist as well. again nothing stands out or is particularly odd

I saw evidence that their games were featured and had articles done on various sites including critical distance. again nothing seems out of the ordinary

yes i looked at the critical distance patreon and feel free to point out what you are seeing that im not.

I am also curious to see where the first hand evidence of critical distance being silverstrings only patreon suporter is and that they had an account there
Silverstring media do not currently have a patreon account.
nor does there seem to be a record of them having a patreon accoount in the past as far as i can find.
feel free to post your first hand source if this is incorrect

critical distances policy with donators money is as follows:
"Your contributions will go toward the following, in order of priority:

-Domain and server upkeep (a minimal expense, but a priority).
-Living expenses.
-Paying contributors.
-Digital expansion projects (archive, wiki, cross-reference tagging, job board).
-Print anthology (about which we'll hopefully be able to share more soon). "

no mention of supporting developers like silverstring media

silverstring does have a profile on indiegogo but hasnt asked for donations but has contributed to various projects. the projects have been everything from a wallet to a project on the history of mobile games

so far nothing seems odd at all, and fits with silver string being a feminist game developer that also supports the LGBT comunity, and the evidence so far has either been out right wrong with silverstring being labelled as a PR company, the game websites being listed as having one owner, anita and zoe being represented by silverstream.

to me it seems to be a case of trying to find a pattern to fit a believed conspiracy where one doesnt seem to exist.

i honestly just dont see a conspiracy there or anything out of the ordinary so far

Draconalis:

CriticalMiss:

licktheenvelope:
Lots of smaller ones popping up right now like TechRaptor.

Having had a quick glance I think I've found my new go-to site for gaming news. They actually have gaming news too!

Holy shit! Did you know a new Ys game was coming out?

I'm kinda torn there's apparently no forums to sign up for.

I noticed that too, there have been a lot of announcements and none of them are here in The Escapist

The argument to vote with ones wallet is often brought up when it comes to certain aspects of games: "don't buy it if you don't like it".
now this thread starts off with people complaining that the escapist is focusing too much on social aspects of our culture at this point, while any threads about Anita or Zoe get ridiculous attention from the users.

does anyone see the problem here?

I for my part am mostly hiding in a hole and wait till things calm down.

I believe on the very first issue of this partnership, I suggested this not be within the news section, but within the Featured/Editorials section.

Because just like every other issue of this collaboration, its not news. Its a feature article.

Jenvas1306:
The argument to vote with ones wallet is often brought up when it comes to certain aspects of games: "don't buy it if you don't like it".
now this thread starts off with people complaining that the escapist is focusing too much on social aspects of our culture at this point, while any threads about Anita or Zoe get ridiculous attention from the users.

does anyone see the problem here?

I for my part am mostly hiding in a hole and wait till things calm down.

Its more than that, at this point any official statements about this whole mess have blamed everyone and anyone else (even those that voiced moderation) except for the parties involved with gaming journalism and the events in question which combined with the rather extreme attempts to block any sort of discourse on most other sites (which apparently included 4chan) in the beginning.

It's not that this article is about the entire debarke, its that its towing what appears to be a manufactured party line when people are fed up of being told to either shut up, take it quietly and being told they are in the wrong when something has happened.

Ed130 The Vanguard:

Jenvas1306:
The argument to vote with ones wallet is often brought up when it comes to certain aspects of games: "don't buy it if you don't like it".
now this thread starts off with people complaining that the escapist is focusing too much on social aspects of our culture at this point, while any threads about Anita or Zoe get ridiculous attention from the users.

does anyone see the problem here?

I for my part am mostly hiding in a hole and wait till things calm down.

Its more than that, at this point any official statements about this whole mess have blamed everyone and anyone else (even those that voiced moderation) except for the parties involved with gaming journalism and the events in question which combined with the rather extreme attempts to block any sort of discourse on most other sites (which apparently included 4chan) in the beginning.

It's not that this article is about the entire debarke, its that its towing what appears to be a manufactured party line when people are fed up of being told to either shut up, take it quietly and being told they are in the wrong when something has happened.

and who exactly is getting blamed in this particular article?
I read an article on how people reject Anita Sarkeesian and with her her criticism. That brings us to more of the harasment debacle of Zoe that has little to do with the former except for both of them being women.

Jenvas1306:

Ed130 The Vanguard:

Jenvas1306:
The argument to vote with ones wallet is often brought up when it comes to certain aspects of games: "don't buy it if you don't like it".
now this thread starts off with people complaining that the escapist is focusing too much on social aspects of our culture at this point, while any threads about Anita or Zoe get ridiculous attention from the users.

does anyone see the problem here?

I for my part am mostly hiding in a hole and wait till things calm down.

Its more than that, at this point any official statements about this whole mess have blamed everyone and anyone else (even those that voiced moderation) except for the parties involved with gaming journalism and the events in question which combined with the rather extreme attempts to block any sort of discourse on most other sites (which apparently included 4chan) in the beginning.

It's not that this article is about the entire debarke, its that its towing what appears to be a manufactured party line when people are fed up of being told to either shut up, take it quietly and being told they are in the wrong when something has happened.

and who exactly is getting blamed in this particular article?
I read an article on how people reject Anita Sarkeesian and with her her criticism. That brings us to more of the harasment debacle of Zoe that has little to do with the former except for both of them being women.

"towing what appears to be a manufactured party line" at this point both Zoe and Anita are becoming intertwined, especially with the lines between their supporters being blurred at best and indistinguishable at worst.

Whether that's good for their respective causes is up for debate.

I don't know where to start with this so i will try to keep it simple.

Threats and bullying against anyone is wrong and there is no need for it, if you don't agree with someone and think there work is b******t then do a constructive response to it, disprove it , make the person look like an idiot, but don't hurl them with abuse it just makes you look like an idiot.

Now i feel that Anita is using the abuse she has received for her own ends, if you are genuinely in fear for your life then you go to the police not twitter.

And can we please stop biging her up like she is doing something important, her videos are not based on any sort of facts. She presents no evidence and contradicts herself.

Oh and 158,000 dollars for 6 videos ?

Give that money to someone who is competent and you would get far more content and for more accurate content.

I don't have a problem with anyone due to race colour or sex i have a problem with people if they are an idiot, and Anita is one.

Just when you think its over the war continues

image

You know what is the most extraordinary thing revealed by all of this?

IGN is one of the most trustworth video game news sites right now.

Think about that. Kotaku, RPS, Destructoid, Polygon, the Escapist and more have shit their collective bed so hard that IGN is more trustworthy than they. IGN.

Edit:

Whoops, nevermind! Seems IGN have an article of their own, just as imbalanced and devoid of facts as the rest. Ah well.

Time to head over to one of the new start-ups that have risen from this mess. Maybe they, promising journalistic integrity and equal treatment, will eventually replace sites like this one.

Well, I'll be ignoring all of Critical Distance articles from now on. I must say, even though I still frequent the Escapist, it's losing it's appeal rapidly. Can anyone suggest me another alternate source of game media that's not full of bs?

ConanThe3rd:
You missed a Trigger Warning; "Badly Written Article".

I'm sorry... that says it all... And that's dangerous son, it's 7:30 AM where I am and I nearly spilled my coffee.

Kalezian:

small:

Hero in a half shell:

The problem is that there is no one left to call them out. The media is utterly controlled by these people, and we're slowly realising just how deep the rabbit hole goes.

This is the second time I've posted this vid, but it needs to be seen:

(Skip to 5:25 - 6:00 if you can't be assed to watch the full thing, but I highly recommend it)

Basically, there is a single company that owns Kotaku, Gamasutra, Polygon, Gamespot, Destructoid and the Daily Beast. All these game websites have the same PR company - Silverstream Media. They also do PR for Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian. And Zoe Quinn had a relationship with her PR representative at the company.

The PR firm is a very, very, ideological feminist/social justice think tank - religiously so.

That explains why all of these companies have been getting progressively strict on 'Social Justice' issues, and why not only did they refuse to report on the Zoe Quinn scandal, but actively went into full scale damage control mode, misrepresenting the facts and denying any negatives of the feminists, that culminated in a single day blitz of "Death of Gamers" stories - all sites producing an article talking about how the toxic gamer culture was over, and even referencing each others articles, despite being released on the same day!

The people saying gamers should die are not denounced, because they are the mainstream media and spokespeople of this social justice movement. Complete with T-shirts (designed and marketed by the same PR representative Zoe Quinn slept with) http://teespring.com/cuties

Very few gamers would argue with making more games that have positive female protagonists, stronger female characters in general, and less sexualised levels and characters, but I don't think these things should be got rid of entirely.

Lets address some issues with your post for starters.. Im a freelancer researcher so i dont take coments on face value I do my own research

- Those gaming sites are not all owned by the same company; for example:
Gawker media owns gawker, Defamer, Jezebel, Gizmodo, Lifehacker, Jalopnik, Deadspin, io9 & Kotaku
destructoid is owned by Yanier Gonzalez who is the CEO of modern method a web development firm

- Silverstream media is not a PR company, they are an experimental game developer that helps people make games basically, and yes they have feminist perspective. an example of one of their games is http://glitchhikers.com/ for instance
They dont represent anita sarkeesian(that woman has a hard to spell name) or zoe Quinn
Anita sarkeesian is an adviser to the company not represented by them
as for the relationship, if true, i dont see how its relevant as they dont represent her and dont do PR for the companies you mentioned

People tend to believe what they are told on the net if it appears to fit their particular beliefs and not many people actually check what they are told

SilverStream Media just updated their front page today to include their little "we aren't a PR firm ;)" tag.

Pastebin docs on SilverStream, by the way, found a few hours earlier: http://pastebin.com/jrLJyp0W

See, anyone can be a researcher.

Edit: and honestly, if your research consists of looking at the main page, and then "about us" section, you are a pretty bad researcher.

Did you even think about looking at Critical Distances Patreon?

Did you even see that SilverStrings is a supporter of Critical Distance, and CD is their sole Patreon?

That didn't seem a bit odd for a company that's been around for a while now?

One with such influential individuals in the industry only supporting one content creator?

This is so off the rocker insane in terms of conspiracy theories that you might as well just say its the fault of the Jews. THIS is why no one is taking you guys seriously and you've only really created an echo chamber for yourselves.

I love how 'gamers' is framed as a male thing when barely a week ago we had the crowing of "see the majority of gamers are women" gosh, that's an awfully convenient change of position.

It's like, just how stupid do you think we are?

mirasiel:
I love how 'gamers' is framed as a male thing when barely a week ago we had the crowing of "see the majority of gamers are women" gosh, that's an awfully convenient change of position.

It's like, just how stupid do you think we are?

It's common propaganda practice to change "facts" (I quote the word facts because the definition of word implies research, which really didn't happen) depending on what the new desired outcome is. The agenda pushing has changed from "demonize the majority of gamers" to "demonize all gamers."

I have been a member of this site for a long time, and now, coming here is starting to really depress me, and stuff like this is not helping :( I miss the fun discussions, the serious ones have their place. But I miss the fun and I'm considering not coming back here... This place has been one of my homepages for years, that fact makes this a big deal when I think about it, among other things I would miss about this place, like the generally awesome user-base.

Strazdas:

Baresark:
It's the same for people who think reviews are supposed to be some sort of fact, and then get mad when people enjoy a game that has a few shortcomings.

Reviews should be factual. When i read a review i want to know what kind of game mechanics are there, whats the control scheme, variety of missions, unit models, AI complexity. I do NOT want to know that the reviewer was late for work because he gamed too long into the night.

I have never read a review that discussed people being late for work because they were gaming too long. The mechanics for most games are defined by their genre, and of course there are exceptions when a game comes along that has unique mechanics within those. But how the shooting in a game feels is subjective. The idea of how well the mechanics work together is subjective. How good or bad the story is, is subjective. These things are not facts, they are personal feelings on a game. Which is why you often see games that are in a range of reviews. Nothing is an 8/10 as a matter of fact (as an example). Things often range from many reviews. You may see a 6/10, and another 8/10, and a few 7/10's. These are personal opinions about the overall game that is all opinion. I feel like I need to bring up the rather famous PC Gamer review of Dragon Age 2. They gave that game a 94% and caused a massive uproar in it's reader base. The guy who reviewed it loved that game. He seem to have no issue with all of the common things in the game that other people absolutely hated (the reused environments, the enemies that appeared out of nowhere, to name a few things). At the end of the day, that guy loved that game, which was not and is not based on on any facts. If that were a fact, everyone would have loved it.

Strazdas:

Ronack:
Uh-huh.

So, euh ... who thought this'd be a bright idea? I mean, in a forum where the (as of now) second largest thread proves we're smart enough to know otherwise ... how did you even think it'd be a smart idea to promote this? I mean, we can tear everything in this article to shreds with relative easy, you know that right? It's like you're trolls baiting us to react.

This is critical distance. basically a link-dump-wrapped-as-article from a person that does not read or care about whats on this site. its just advertisement hidden under news. so they had no way to know we are smarter than to believe what was said here.

The Rogue Wolf:
It's pathetic, in every definition of the word. The lack of maturity and perspective is staggering. It's no wonder we can't have reasonable discussions on anything- nobody is reasonable; everyone is ready to retreat to their camps, bar the gates and arm the cannons the moment any sort of dissent appears.

I noticed that more "Reasonable" people tend to say their thing and then distance themselves from the whole flamewar going on, so they are far less obviuos to somone that follows the drama.

Baresark:
It's the same for people who think reviews are supposed to be some sort of fact, and then get mad when people enjoy a game that has a few shortcomings.

Reviews should be factual. When i read a review i want to know what kind of game mechanics are there, whats the control scheme, variety of missions, unit models, AI complexity. I do NOT want to know that the reviewer was late for work because he gamed too long into the night.

AkaDad:

This type of behavior has been happening to women for decades. The irony here is that now the shoe's on the other foot, now that white males are getting the same treatment, it's outrageous.

Those examples you provided of bad behavior is unfortunate and those people shouldn't be taking seriously, but if male gamers would have been as outraged in the past over the same behavior, we wouldn't be where we are now.

So in order to combat something you dont like you are going to be doing exactly the thing you dont like to others. not hypocritical at all right?

How are you better than those people then?

Capcha: Gangnam style

Oh you....

I didn't do anything and I'm not condoning bad behavior. I'm just pointing out the different reactions and levels of outrage.

When I first read the article, my thoughts were along the lines of "did Critical Distance just throw the Escapist under a bus?" and looking at Archon's post I guess the answer is pretty much "yes". The staff of the Escapist do have my sympathies since it appears that their collaborator just added fuel to the fire burning merrily on the forum and regardless of their intentions it looks like Critical Distance just tried to drag the Escapist into a fight it does not necessarily want a part of.

More relevant though is the shocking reveal of just how much the gaming media values the community that underpins it. I've been around the block a few times and every time some new counterculture or form of media pops up, there's a pretty good chance that it'll wind up demonized by the mass media. Whether it was "alternative" music like rock, grunge, metal, what have you, comic books or Dungeons & Dragons, they have been tarred with that brush. Heck Jack Chick seems to think that since I have DM'ed D&D I have a pact with Satan for supernatural powers. (Now just imagine a bunch of grey beards nodding sagely muttering about the "good old days"). Eventually these countercultures and media gets settled enough to spawn its own media. Magazines, fanzines, newsletters, bbs and in the modern age, sites and blogs. Never in that time have I seen these niche media outlets masticate the hands that feed them like they are teats dispensing chocolate pudding (to paraphrase the style of the inestimable Mr Crowshaw). Not that this have never happened, but to my best knowledge not to this extent. Maybe its just for the page-clicks but I have a sneaking suspicion that gamers at large aren't going to be very forgiving of a gaming press that effectively tried to collectively shame them and tell them they are irrelevant.

Out of curiosity though, does anyone remember something like this happening? Something like White Dwarf, Wizard or Dungeon telling their readers that their style of tabletop gamers were misogynist, sexist pigs that deserved to be culled for the betterment of everything that exists? Rolling Stone outright dissing their reader base?

webkilla:
Thunderf00t put it well in his vid on the topic when he noted that from some of his earlier videos he had gotten some death-treats too...

Yay! One person acted a certain way, and....No, I'm lost. This is a dude who has tantrums over anything that personally bugs him, but because he didn't react a certain way....What? Is anyone else's experience changed by that? Were the experiences identical?

I'd be more prone to accept this as an argument if it wasn't from a guy who is so thin-skinned he could have a full-time job as one of those anatomy models.

In any case, Thunderf00t is clearly lying [/singlestandard]

Archon:
This article is running as part of a content-exchange partnership that had been arranged prior to the recent controversy.

Interesting choice of words. Poor choice of partnership.

Archon:
It's a curated summary of recent stories in the game industry prepared by Critical Distance and represents their summary of viewpoints they found important.

If the viewpoints they found important belong only to one side of the debate, they are part of the problem. If I wanted to read the ramblings of extremists who refuse to take a step back and examine the whole situation, I'd just open Twitter, there's no need to visit the Escapist. I suggest you stop "exchanging content" with people like that. Literally everyone is sick and tired of their bullshit.

Saetha:
Jesus. H. Christ. snip so many others that have been bullied in this industry? Ryan Perez. Josh Olin. JonTron. Total Biscuit. Brad Wardell. Jayd3fox. Wizardchan. TFYC. Probably countless other no-name enthusiasts that have had their harassment gone unknown since no one pays attention to them.

Never heard of them. I'd like to, though.

Sometimes I wonder if gamers get so upset about the 'criticism of sexism in games' stuff because they feel personally attacked - both for being part of the gaming community and for liking these things which are now being criticised. Or maybe (for the guys at least), is it like feeling 'tarred with the same brush'? Some guy somewhere made an objectionable design decision or spewed some bile on the internet but by virtue of sharing a gender, any backlash to the former feels directed at them too?

This is just me, but I honestly don't think our society is capable of being truly equal. There's always an 'us' and 'them' mentality and even melting pot countries tend to carefully segregate people by what language they speak most comfortably or what culture they personify. You either assimilate to the over-culture, or you keep quiet in your little corner. We still use the terms 'black people' and 'white people' for heaven's sake. We're more mindful of racism these days (although white is still default in most entertainment), but sexism is a sore topic - I think because unlike race or culture, you can't segregate or assimilate sex - not fully. We spend our lives splitting up boys and girls, assigning and reinforcing (and recognising) shared colour schemes, societal roles, hobbies, behaviours etc - but then have to slap them back together once biology starts demanding offspring and expect them to have things in common.

'Male as the default' is the attempted assimilation of one gender into the other (and I don't mean some sort of conspiracy, just a byproduct of a culture which has held males a step above females from the Bible to Greek philosophers to Victorian physicians). We (generally) expect presidents and doctors to be men. We expect women to go see 'male' movies, but not men to go see 'female' movies. We accept women being more like men ('one of the lads' 'tomboys') but not men being more like women.

This is not an attack on women (or men) and it's nobody's fault. Our language is built on specifying gender - we are not people first, we are reproductive organs. We are roles in society. We are, essentially, two distinct cultures forced by biology to co-exist when there's only space for one culture to be 'us' at any one time.

I don't think this is good or bad - it just is. Maybe one day, as medicine advances, males and females will no longer be forced together by biology and can split apart and become more culturally distinct, with people from both sides living in whichever culture they personally prefer. Until that time, male as the default is what we have and that will always mean, to a degree, a sense of 'us' being men and 'them' being women - sometimes even for women themselves.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

Zachary Amaranth:

webkilla:
Thunderf00t put it well in his vid on the topic when he noted that from some of his earlier videos he had gotten some death-treats too...

Yay! One person acted a certain way, and....No, I'm lost. This is a dude who has tantrums over anything that personally bugs him, but because he didn't react a certain way....What? Is anyone else's experience changed by that? Were the experiences identical?

I believe he's referring to the start of this video:

At the beginning of which he talks about when he was receiving (what he at least believed to be) credible threats to his safety (I believe by the Muslim behind a youtube channel called dawahfilms, but it may have occurred at other points while criticising Islam). He recounts that he took the matter to the FBI, whose specific advice (assumedly amongst other actions) was not to respond to the threats. This noticeably varies from how Anita has reacted to her apparent threats (tweeting about them, followed swiftly by a reminder that you can give her money etc.), hence his belief that she's talking bollocks and hasn't received legitimate threats (only empty twitter shit flinging) or gone to the authorities. amd is merely trawling the internet for sympathy/funds again.

Hope that provided a bit of context.

VondeVon:
Sometimes I wonder if gamers get so upset about the 'criticism of sexism in games' stuff because they feel personally attacked - both for being part of the gaming community and for liking these things which are now being criticised. Or maybe (for the guys at least), is it like feeling 'tarred with the same brush'? Some guy somewhere made an objectionable design decision or spewed some bile on the internet but by virtue of sharing a gender, any backlash to the former feels directed at them too?

For me, pretty much this. Lines are drawn quickly in debates like this, with mud-slinging not too far behind. I think both sides have valid points, but I wait and do research before jumping in and as a result usually get hit with mud as soon as I open my mouth because I fit some group's definition of "the other side".

I would also like use your last sentence to point something out to the community: that last sentence goes both ways. Women have made objectionable design designs (for both male and female characters) and spewed bile (you don't even have to look beyond this debacle for that) and whole groups have been tarred by that. One person, unless they're a spokesperson, doesn't represent the whole. Take these things on a case-by-case basis, please.

maxben:
THIS is why no one is taking you guys seriously and you've only really created an echo chamber for yourselves.

maxben:
no one is taking you guys seriously

gee y'think so ?

i'll admit there's a lot of white noise and that it is hard to keep track of things and all that has happened recently sometimes but there is actually some truth in what Kalezian told you.

and as for "an echo chamber"...

image

the Alexa site traffic graphs on the right are fresh today.

those particular "gaming" websites are some of the ones that ran with the "gamers need to die" stories all at the same time...

and those those traffic slides that you can see all lining up are not the work of mere "coincidence"...

there is plenty of stuff going on...some websites are getting a whole load of new customers...others...well not so much...it all really depends on what how they are treating their customers and what they are reporting because he's the thing: Kalezian isn't actually "insane" at all.

he might not be in possession of all the facts just yet but he's certainly not "insane".

and tbth that's one of the major problems...

ie the pernicious idea that everyone else is...

but hey it's fine. you want to ignore the largest thread in The Escapists history and keep telling yourself there's nothing there going in in there and everyone seems to be going delusion but you...that's your choice.

just don't kid yourself there is nothing going on either tho eh ?

because at the very least you're probably going to see the fall and rise of a whole new eco system of "gaming" websites before this particular journey is over...

Sleekit:
because at the very least you're probably going to see the fall and rise of a whole new eco system of "gaming" websites before this particular journey is over...

Yep, pretty much. These sites are building a bigger and bigger bubble out of the social issues - specifically feminism - in gaming, and sooner or later, it's going to burst. More and more people are, for one reason or another, just getting sick of it.

But this post shows the most effective thing you can do to screw these sites right back; stop going there, or - if you can't or won't, if there's a community there which you won't abandon despite the so-called "journalists" running the place; remove them from your thing-which-must-not-be-mentioned whitelist. Learn how to deny the sites your "hits", it's actually a really simple process. I won't link to it or tell you how to do it here because, hey, the escapist just shat the bed full of social justice today, I'm guessing they won't appreciate someone telling you how best to show your displeasure. But I promise you it's not hard to find out how, it's been posted countless times on various forums (in particular, reddit) throughout this whole debacle. You know they're clickbaiting scumbags. Deny them those clicks.

Kalezian:

small:

Hero in a half shell:

The problem is that there is no one left to call them out. The media is utterly controlled by these people, and we're slowly realising just how deep the rabbit hole goes.

This is the second time I've posted this vid, but it needs to be seen:

(Skip to 5:25 - 6:00 if you can't be assed to watch the full thing, but I highly recommend it)

Basically, there is a single company that owns Kotaku, Gamasutra, Polygon, Gamespot, Destructoid and the Daily Beast. All these game websites have the same PR company - Silverstream Media. They also do PR for Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian. And Zoe Quinn had a relationship with her PR representative at the company.

The PR firm is a very, very, ideological feminist/social justice think tank - religiously so.

That explains why all of these companies have been getting progressively strict on 'Social Justice' issues, and why not only did they refuse to report on the Zoe Quinn scandal, but actively went into full scale damage control mode, misrepresenting the facts and denying any negatives of the feminists, that culminated in a single day blitz of "Death of Gamers" stories - all sites producing an article talking about how the toxic gamer culture was over, and even referencing each others articles, despite being released on the same day!

The people saying gamers should die are not denounced, because they are the mainstream media and spokespeople of this social justice movement. Complete with T-shirts (designed and marketed by the same PR representative Zoe Quinn slept with) http://teespring.com/cuties

Very few gamers would argue with making more games that have positive female protagonists, stronger female characters in general, and less sexualised levels and characters, but I don't think these things should be got rid of entirely.

Lets address some issues with your post for starters.. Im a freelancer researcher so i dont take coments on face value I do my own research

- Those gaming sites are not all owned by the same company; for example:
Gawker media owns gawker, Defamer, Jezebel, Gizmodo, Lifehacker, Jalopnik, Deadspin, io9 & Kotaku
destructoid is owned by Yanier Gonzalez who is the CEO of modern method a web development firm

- Silverstream media is not a PR company, they are an experimental game developer that helps people make games basically, and yes they have feminist perspective. an example of one of their games is http://glitchhikers.com/ for instance
They dont represent anita sarkeesian(that woman has a hard to spell name) or zoe Quinn
Anita sarkeesian is an adviser to the company not represented by them
as for the relationship, if true, i dont see how its relevant as they dont represent her and dont do PR for the companies you mentioned

People tend to believe what they are told on the net if it appears to fit their particular beliefs and not many people actually check what they are told

SilverStream Media just updated their front page today to include their little "we aren't a PR firm ;)" tag.

Pastebin docs on SilverStream, by the way, found a few hours earlier: http://pastebin.com/jrLJyp0W

See, anyone can be a researcher.

Edit: and honestly, if your research consists of looking at the main page, and then "about us" section, you are a pretty bad researcher.

Did you even think about looking at Critical Distances Patreon?

Did you even see that SilverStrings is a supporter of Critical Distance, and CD is their sole Patreon?

That didn't seem a bit odd for a company that's been around for a while now?

One with such influential individuals in the industry only supporting one content creator?

Ugh if this actually turns out to be a conspiracy and not the more rational people behaving badly and mobbing together as people are want to do I'm going to lose my mind. I think I already am seeing the FBI outside the window. I'm not even American...:( AHHHH aliens !!!!! In all seriousness I can't help but think please don't be true please don't be true even though it would signal one hell of a blow for journalistic ethics.

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