Bioware forums explode as Mass Effect 3 ending details are leaked. *MINOR SPOILERS*

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BaronIveagh:

Kahunaburger:

If the info we have is to be believed, all the endings are one of those.

I'm sorry, but my Shep would have been going 'There's got to be another way to do this...'

the canon ending will probably end up being [spoiler]the Controller ending]/spoiler]

Still, if bioware is really going to set a ME sequel in a Universe after the collapse, and a time skip of 1000+ years, then I might give the sequel a shot.

As it stands im afraid they might just make a prequel based around the First Contact war, which I would rather see be adapted as a film.

boag:
It just feels like closing the book entirely.

If mass relays are really destroyed, there is nothing left. I doubt you can expect any world in ME universe to be self-sufficient enough to remain thriving. Except perhaps the Rachni ...

As far as some people mentioning prequels? Oh please, no more prequels!

If I just think about all the prequels we have seen in last decade, how many are considered a fine example of how you improve a good franchise?
Exactly, none, they are all famous for sucking badly due to lame attempt to manipulate fan's nostalgia nerve. Just think about Star Wars, Star Trek, The Terminator ... Need I go on?

boag:
Still, if bioware is really going to set a ME sequel in a Universe after the collapse, and a time skip of 1000+ years, then I might give the sequel a shot.

1000 years would be too short for any kind of reasonable story, unless they "invent" relay-less long distance FTL travel.

It's more realistic to use 50.000 years time frame they use in game for galactic cycle ... Perhaps this time even longer, as that cycle was depending on precursor technology being found.
But 50.000 years would mean absolutely no relation is left to the original universe.

Sorry, I'm afraid its either prequel (Gah!) or something completely unlike this universe.

PingoBlack:

boag:
It just feels like closing the book entirely.

If mass relays are really destroyed, there is nothing left. I doubt you can expect any world in ME universe to be self-sufficient enough to remain thriving. Except perhaps the Rachni ...

As far as some people mentioning prequels? Oh please, no more prequels!

If I just think about all the prequels we have seen in last decade, how many are considered a fine example of how you improve a good franchise?
Exactly, none, they are all famous for sucking badly due to lame attempt to manipulate fan's nostalgia nerve. Just think about Star Wars, Star Trek, The Terminator ... Need I go on?

I agree, I am also sick of prequels, its a cheap way to cash in on an idea by trying to put a new spin on it, but it ultimately just becomes a rehash of the original.

PingoBlack:

boag:
Still, if bioware is really going to set a ME sequel in a Universe after the collapse, and a time skip of 1000+ years, then I might give the sequel a shot.

1000 years would be too short for any kind of reasonable story, unless they "invent" relay-less long distance FTL travel.

It's more realistic to use 50.000 years time frame they use in game for galactic cycle ... Perhaps this time even longer, as that cycle was depending on precursor technology being found.
But 50.000 years would mean absolutely no relation is left to the original universe.

Sorry, I'm afraid its either prequel (Gah!) or something completely unlike this universe.

well, not necessarily 50k, let me provide 2 solutions.

1.- not all of them get wiped out, this would be a bit of a retcon, but with the knowledge that the Citadel Council didnt open up all Mass relays, there could be a loophole where the end event leaves these untouched.

2.- Since the communications system in place was independent of the Mass Relays, the Galactic cultures could feasibly orchestrate the construction of their own relays in their own systems. The Asari Matriarch in Illium stated that the Asari had been dabbing in the construction of their own relays, and the Protheans did manage to create one, the Conduit that was used in the first ME game.

I dunno. There is no way civilization would be able to recover in 50k years, because there are no Mass Relays anymore =|. It would take 50k years travelling at FTL speeds just to reach halfway across the galaxy.

I hadn't considered that the extranet network was a seperate entity from the relay network, that could be feasible I suppose. But either way, I'm still hoping the day 1 patch includes an actual "good" ending. Honestly I don't care that you know people are dead an all that, because you expect it.But what we weren't expecting was all the Mass Relays to suddenly you know, KABOOM. That kind of throws a wrench the size of VY Canis Majoris into the galactic economy and society.

boag:
well, not necessarily 50k, let me provide 2 solutions.

1.- not all of them get wiped out, this would be a bit of a retcon, but with the knowledge that the Citadel Council didnt open up all Mass relays, there could be a loophole where the end event leaves these untouched.

2.- Since the communications system in place was independent of the Mass Relays, the Galactic cultures could feasibly orchestrate the construction of their own relays in their own systems. The Asari Matriarch in Illium stated that the Asari had been dabbing in the construction of their own relays, and the Protheans did manage to create one, the Conduit that was used in the first ME game.

Good point, this can be pulled off by small retcon or just flat out denial that relays were ever destroyed ... Of course, BioWare owns the IP. Dammit! :)

I'm not sure though about parallel FTL comm system. This would of course solve everything, provided the comm system was not based on relay themselves ... In the case of working FTL comm you only need your Prothean buddy (yay DLC) to survive and help you build a copy of mini-relay, so you can email blueprints under GPL licence. :D

Sadly, I seriously doubt BioWare are actually interested in it at this point. They quite purposefully decided to destroy everything, prolly cause it was cheap 'n easy.

boag:

2.- Since the communications system in place was independent of the Mass Relays, the Galactic cultures could feasibly orchestrate the construction of their own relays in their own systems. The Asari Matriarch in Illium stated that the Asari had been dabbing in the construction of their own relays, and the Protheans did manage to create one, the Conduit that was used in the first ME game.

And, yes, you do find Prothy along the way. Does anyone else smell DLC ending like Fallout 3? Pay $25 to get the good ending?

BaronIveagh:
And, yes, you do find Prothy along the way. Does anyone else smell DLC ending like Fallout 3? Pay $25 to get the good ending?

After the reason for Liara's return was DLC only?
You better believe it! There is nothing I don't expect BioWare to pull at this point. :)

Only sad bit is I highly doubt anything they pull would be positive ...

PingoBlack:

boag:
well, not necessarily 50k, let me provide 2 solutions.

1.- not all of them get wiped out, this would be a bit of a retcon, but with the knowledge that the Citadel Council didnt open up all Mass relays, there could be a loophole where the end event leaves these untouched.

2.- Since the communications system in place was independent of the Mass Relays, the Galactic cultures could feasibly orchestrate the construction of their own relays in their own systems. The Asari Matriarch in Illium stated that the Asari had been dabbing in the construction of their own relays, and the Protheans did manage to create one, the Conduit that was used in the first ME game.

Good point, this can be pulled off by small retcon or just flat out denial that relays were ever destroyed ... Of course, BioWare owns the IP. Dammit! :)

I'm not sure though about parallel FTL comm system. This would of course solve everything, provided the comm system was not based on relay themselves ... In the case of working FTL comm you only need your Prothean buddy (yay DLC) to survive and help you build a copy of mini-relay, so you can email blueprints under GPL licence. :D

Sadly, I seriously doubt BioWare are actually interested in it at this point. They quite purposefully decided to destroy everything, prolly cause it was cheap 'n easy.

Possibly, but its one of the less stupid ways of actually using an in universe mechanic that has been referenced to fix the problem.

BaronIveagh:

boag:

2.- Since the communications system in place was independent of the Mass Relays, the Galactic cultures could feasibly orchestrate the construction of their own relays in their own systems. The Asari Matriarch in Illium stated that the Asari had been dabbing in the construction of their own relays, and the Protheans did manage to create one, the Conduit that was used in the first ME game.

And, yes, you do find Prothy along the way. Does anyone else smell DLC ending like Fallout 3? Pay $25 to get the good ending?

PingoBlack:

BaronIveagh:
And, yes, you do find Prothy along the way. Does anyone else smell DLC ending like Fallout 3? Pay $25 to get the good ending?

After the reason for Liara's return was DLC only?
You better believe it! There is nothing I don't expect BioWare to pull at this point. :)

Only sad bit is I highly doubt anything they pull would be positive ...

I wouldnt put much faith in the DLC Prothean, for all intents and purposes the dude is kal Reager 2.0

And so the shitstorm begins...

I have no problem with such types of ending, but I can understand people being unhappy about it. I will still play my renegade shepard till the end, I'd just love an ending where you can join the reaper instead...

Kahunaburger:

SajuukKhar:

And the point I see in these threads usually consists of

"I WANT RPGS TO FIT INTO MY NARROW MINDED AND ANTIQUATED DEFINITION BASED OFF OF GAMES FROM AGES PAST THAT I LET MYSELF BELIEVE ARE SO MUCH BETTER THEN THEY EVER ACTUALLY WERE AND EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME DOESN'T LIKE TRUE RPGS WAAAAAAA"

I don't find that to be remotely helpful.

Those people don't want anything new, they don't want anything innovative, they want Baldur's Gate 3 to be exactly like BG2 was in every way, and anything less is unacceptable.

You must not be reading those threads very carefully, then. When you have time, check them out without bringing your pre-conceptions to the table. They're the closest thing the BSN has to good content.

Lol that opinion was made AFTER I read their threads, not before.

Maybe you should stop bringing your preconceptions to the BSN so you can see how most of this "thoughtful/Intelligent" discussion is mostly BG nostalgia crying.

boag:

Its not that they are all depressing endings, its just that the illusion of choice matters very little in the actions you took, because of a single event that overrides all other consequences in the story appears in all the different endings.

Welcome to Bauldr's Gate, NWN, and Fallout series.

Each of those games erased everything you could have picked by forcing specific endings or using some war/hero disappearance to make it all go away for whatever the story writers wanted.

And people worship those as games with great choice, because getting told everything you did in the last game is being overwritten because the Devs felt like it such a great thing.

PingoBlack:

1000 years would be too short for any kind of reasonable story, unless they "invent" relay-less long distance FTL travel.

It's more realistic to use 50.000 years time frame they use in game for galactic cycle ... Perhaps this time even longer, as that cycle was depending on precursor technology being found.
But 50.000 years would mean absolutely no relation is left to the original universe.

Sorry, I'm afraid its either prequel (Gah!) or something completely unlike this universe.

Humanity and other races don't just magically lose all the FTL drives they had, and all the research that some had done into the Mass relays.

It wouldn't take anywhere near 50,000 years.

SajuukKhar:

Kahunaburger:

SajuukKhar:

And the point I see in these threads usually consists of

"I WANT RPGS TO FIT INTO MY NARROW MINDED AND ANTIQUATED DEFINITION BASED OFF OF GAMES FROM AGES PAST THAT I LET MYSELF BELIEVE ARE SO MUCH BETTER THEN THEY EVER ACTUALLY WERE AND EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME DOESN'T LIKE TRUE RPGS WAAAAAAA"

I don't find that to be remotely helpful.

Those people don't want anything new, they don't want anything innovative, they want Baldur's Gate 3 to be exactly like BG2 was in every way, and anything less is unacceptable.

You must not be reading those threads very carefully, then. When you have time, check them out without bringing your pre-conceptions to the table. They're the closest thing the BSN has to good content.

Lol that opinion was made AFTER I read their threads, not before.

Maybe you should stop bringing your preconceptions to the BSN so you can see how most of this "thoughtful/Intelligent" discussion is mostly BG nostalgia crying.

If you had formed your opinion based on what people actually post in those threads, you'd have a different opinion. TBH I'm seeing a lot of knee-jerk reaction from you in general, so it's not too surprising.

Kahunaburger:

If you had formed your opinion based on what people actually post in those threads, you'd have a different opinion. TBH I'm seeing a lot of knee-jerk reaction from you in general, so it's not too surprising.

image

Ahh yes the

"If you had really done what I said you WOULD share my opinion, and the fact that you dont share my opinion shows you must not have" argument.

We have dismissed those claims

Because really that argument doesn't work. It's just as flawed as the "bioware made a optional character DLC that MUST mean they are going to start selling you critical plot points as DLC" argument, aka the slippery slope argument.

Two people can go into something with no preconceived notions of it and come out with two diffrent opinions.

SajuukKhar:

Welcome to Bauldr's Gate, NWN, and Fallout series.

Each of those games erased everything you could have picked by forcing specific endings or using some war/hero disappearance to make it all go away for whatever the story writers wanted.

Yes, because Baldur's gate didn't have...what was it, 30+ endings, based on if you became the Lord of Murder or not?

Not a fan of NWN, so don't know.

Fallout: and you might notice they decided the ending was SO BAD they retconned it with DLC?

BaronIveagh:

SajuukKhar:

Welcome to Bauldr's Gate, NWN, and Fallout series.

Each of those games erased everything you could have picked by forcing specific endings or using some war/hero disappearance to make it all go away for whatever the story writers wanted.

Yes, because Baldur's gate didn't have...what was it, 30+ endings, based on if you became the Lord of Murder or not?

Not a fan of NWN, so don't know.

Fallout: and you might notice they decided the ending was SO BAD they retconned it with DLC?

Yes because Bauldr's Gate 2, didn't totally invalidate a good chuck of the possible BG1 endings?

And almost all of Fallout 1's choices were invalidated by Fallout 2, and most of Fallout 2's choises were invalidated by New vegas, and most of New vega's choices will be invalided by some next game.

same with NWN and NWN 2.

SajuukKhar:

Ahh yes the

"If you had really done what I said you WOULD share my opinion, and the fact that you dont share my opinion shows you must not have" argument.

Ah yes, the 'Sajuukkhar is not a troll.' defense.

We have dismissed those claims.

Since you clearly are not bothering to engage brain when I wrote 'Based on if you decide to kill the Lord of Murder'.

BaronIveagh:

Ah yes, the 'Sajuukkhar is not a troll.' defense.

We have dismissed those claims.

Because anyone who doesn't hate everything Bioware does must be a troll right?

SajuukKhar:

Because anyone who doesn't hate everything Bioware does must be a troll right?

Well, let's see... no, because that would make me a troll.

The reason I called you a troll is that you sit there, misrepresent what was said, and then attack a straw man based on that and spew hyperbola. Anyone who disagrees with you is accused of simply not knowing the truth or being blind.

It could be any subject, really, and that would qualify you as a troll.

SajuukKhar:

Two people can go into something with no preconceived notions of it and come out with two diffrent opinions.

And the fact that opinions differ does not make all opinions equally correct.

Your assertion that RPG grognards are just suffering from BG2 nostalgia is unpersuasive because anyone who has read any number of grognard posts can't help but noticing that they put a significant amount of thought into their game design opinions.

In other words, evidence > assertions. Especially blanket assertions like "everyone who fits into a big arbitrary category has nothing valuable to say."

BaronIveagh:

Well, let's see... no, because that would make me a troll.

The reason I called you a troll is that you sit there, misrepresent what was said, and then attack a straw man based on that and spew hyperbola. Anyone who disagrees with you is accused of simply not knowing the truth or being blind.

It could be any subject, really, and that would qualify you as a troll.

That is entirely untrue.

All I said is that people on BSN complaining about everything not being BG3 too much for discussions to ever move anyone, not that there wasn't people trying to have good discussions on there.

There are some good people on BSN, but anything they say gets so drowned in nostalgia talk started by other people everything they try to discuss becomes pointless.

SajuukKhar:

All I said is that people on BSN complaing about everything not being BG too much for discussions to ever move anyone, not that there wasn't people trying to have good discussions on there.

I hate to point this out to you, but I've ben there a long time, and in the ME3 forums, I've seen someone bring up Baldur's Gate maybe three or four times, usually in the context of 'God, this limited handful of possible endings sucks, why couldn't we have a good game with lots of endings like Chronotrigger or the Baldur's Gate series anymore?"

Granted there's nostalgia in play there (except with Chronotrigger, which gets rereleased to every platform known to man, and really is that good) but it's hardly the driving force you are making it out to be.

SoD_Timber_Wolf:
And so the shitstorm begins...

I have no problem with such types of ending, but I can understand people being unhappy about it. I will still play my renegade shepard till the end, I'd just love an ending where you can join the reaper instead...

you havent read the spoilers?

SajuukKhar:
Humanity and other races don't just magically lose all the FTL drives they had, and all the research that some had done into the Mass relays.

It wouldn't take anywhere near 50,000 years.

FTL drives are not the issue, their range is. Remember the charge buildup? So travel between stars is only possible inertialy, you should know how long that takes.

As far as relays go, Protheans (already gone long time) are the only ones to make a copy.

BaronIveagh:

I hate to point this out to you, but I've ben there a long time, and in the ME3 forums, I've seen someone bring up Baldur's Gate maybe three or four times, usually in the context of 'God, this limited handful of possible endings sucks, why couldn't we have a good game with lots of endings like Chronotrigger or the Baldur's Gate series anymore?"

Granted there's nostalgia in play there (except with Chronotrigger, which gets rereleased to every platform known to man, and really is that good) but it's hardly the driving force you are making it out to be.

I do know that OTHER game besides BG are often mentioned, NWN, Fallout 1, and others get mentioned frequently but I've seen BG used the most, not only on BSN but on gaming forums in general, as the ultimate paragon of how great RPGs used to be and how "far" they have fallen in recent years.

It is easier to just type BG because its practically become a internet joke that people use it as the definitive greatest RPG ever made so much.

PingoBlack:

FTL drives are not the issue, their range is. Remember the charge buildup? So travel between stars is only possible inertialy, you should know how long that takes.

As far as relays go, only Protheans, already gone long time, are only ones to make a copy.

As was pointed out be someone else on the thread we know some of the Asari have toyed with the idea of making a new relays.

It wouldn't take more then 1,000-3,000 years to build relays.

SajuukKhar:

boag:

Its not that they are all depressing endings, its just that the illusion of choice matters very little in the actions you took, because of a single event that overrides all other consequences in the story appears in all the different endings.

Welcome to Bauldr's Gate, NWN, and Fallout series.

Each of those games erased everything you could have picked by forcing specific endings or using some war/hero disappearance to make it all go away for whatever the story writers wanted.

And people worship those as games with great choice, because getting told everything you did in the last game is being overwritten because the Devs felt like it such a great thing.

I know, I just kinda hoped that ME would be the exception to the rule :(

in retrospect this is classic Bioware Writting and I should not have been surprised by it.

SajuukKhar:

BaronIveagh:

I hate to point this out to you, but I've ben there a long time, and in the ME3 forums, I've seen someone bring up Baldur's Gate maybe three or four times, usually in the context of 'God, this limited handful of possible endings sucks, why couldn't we have a good game with lots of endings like Chronotrigger or the Baldur's Gate series anymore?"

Granted there's nostalgia in play there (except with Chronotrigger, which gets rereleased to every platform known to man, and really is that good) but it's hardly the driving force you are making it out to be.

I do know that OTHER game besides BG are often mentioned, NWN, Fallout 1, and others get mentioned frequently but I've seen BG used the most, not only on BSN but on gaming forums in general, as the ultimate paragon of how great RPGs used to be and how "far" they have fallen in recent years.

It is easier to just type BG because its practically become a internet joke that people use it as the definitive greatest RPG ever made so much.

PingoBlack:

FTL drives are not the issue, their range is. Remember the charge buildup? So travel between stars is only possible inertialy, you should know how long that takes.

As far as relays go, only Protheans, already gone long time, are only ones to make a copy.

As was pointed out be someone else on the thread we know some of the Asari have toyed with the idea of making a new relays.

It wouldn't take more then 1,000-3,000 years to build relays.

We really arent sure how long it would take the Asari, by all Means the Matriarch in illium called the rest of her comrades stupid vapid whores, for not thinking ahead.

If anything Im guessing the Salarians, Humans, Geth, Quarians or Turians would be the first to finish up a relay, before the Asari ever did.

Or maybe being deprived of multi species space cock is the fire that would finally get the Asari to stop being such lazy cunts.

boag:

I know, I just kinda hoped that ME would be the exception to the rule :(

in retrospect this is classic Bioware Writting and I should not have been surprised by it.

It is nice to see that a few people do realize this is exactly the same stuff Bioware has been pulling for ages.

It is the same thing all games that supposedly have "choice" and diffrent endings based on "choice" do, the only difference is instead of telling you your decisions were meaningless in the next game they just cut to the chase.

I simply refuse to accept that as true. Honestly, if the endings are true that is just bad. I don't know about you but, my Shepard is a badass, and I am fairly certain she could punch a reaper in the face and kill it. I mean, I expected heavy losses supporting characters killed/fucked over but, Shepard and crew members current and other wise should live or die based upon the decisions made by the player.

/shrug, not gonna read the spoilers, don't really care if they turn out to be true anyway.

To be honest, I was operating under the assumption that Shepard was going to die in a best-case scenario ending anyway lol.

godofslack:
I simply refuse to accept that as true. Honestly, if the endings are true that is just bad. I don't know about you but, my Shepard is a badass, and I am fairly certain she could punch a reaper in the face and kill it. I mean, I expected heavy losses supporting characters killed/fucked over but, Shepard and crew members current and other wise should live or die based upon the decisions made by the player.

I am glad to say your worry is unfounded, the endings do allow for crew members to be alive by the end, depending on the decisions you make. The problem stems from another part.

boag:

godofslack:
I simply refuse to accept that as true. Honestly, if the endings are true that is just bad. I don't know about you but, my Shepard is a badass, and I am fairly certain she could punch a reaper in the face and kill it. I mean, I expected heavy losses supporting characters killed/fucked over but, Shepard and crew members current and other wise should live or die based upon the decisions made by the player.

I am glad to say your worry is unfounded, the endings do allow for crew members to be alive by the end, depending on the decisions you make. The problem stems from another part.

I read through it, but they seem to get fucked over and stuck on some random planet. If they survive

godofslack:

boag:

godofslack:
I simply refuse to accept that as true. Honestly, if the endings are true that is just bad. I don't know about you but, my Shepard is a badass, and I am fairly certain she could punch a reaper in the face and kill it. I mean, I expected heavy losses supporting characters killed/fucked over but, Shepard and crew members current and other wise should live or die based upon the decisions made by the player.

I am glad to say your worry is unfounded, the endings do allow for crew members to be alive by the end, depending on the decisions you make. The problem stems from another part.

I read through it, but they seem to get fucked over and stuck on some random planet. If they survive

but they are still alive :)

boag:

godofslack:

boag:
I am glad to say your worry is unfounded, the endings do allow for crew members to be alive by the end, depending on the decisions you make. The problem stems from another part.

I read through it, but they seem to get fucked over and stuck on some random planet. If they survive

but they are still alive :)

For all intensive purposes they are dead. They are stuck in the middle of nowhere to die without ever returning home. They could end up starving the death or dying of thirst or some monster when out of ammo. They are are done in the story.

godofslack:

For all intensive purposes they are dead. They are stuck in the middle of nowhere to die without ever returning home. They could end up starving the death or dying of thirst or some monster when out of ammo. They are are done in the story.

The endings actually imply they start a colony and that it does survive.

godofslack:

boag:

godofslack:

I read through it, but they seem to get fucked over and stuck on some random planet. If they survive

but they are still alive :)

For all intensive purposes they are dead. They are stuck in the middle of nowhere to die without ever returning home. They could end up starving the death or dying of thirst or some monster when out of ammo. They are are done in the story.

well its not that bad, its not like

is going to happen. . . . its going to be like Jacobs dad all over again isnt it :(

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