ME3: .....gay romance......why Kaiden and not Ashly?

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my other thread on this topic confirmed what I had figured..much to my dissapointment

Ashly Williams is not a gay romance option for Femshep

why is this a big deal?

well..the thing is Kaiden can be gay/bi, this strikes me as odd in that Kaiden and Ashly are like counterparts, they both share the same role in the story,

so yeah..it seems odd to me that Kaiden can be "bi the way" but not ashley

weather or not femshep and ash would "work" as a couple is enitrly subjective, personaly Garrus and femsehp just weirds me out (not because hes a turian..but because they are comrades..not lovers) but people would disagree, and thats fine because it depends on how we see the charachters

and I totally see femshep and ash together...I mean it was actually originally intended to be an option wasnt it?

ME1

Shepard: "dismissed..cheif"
Ashley: "Ma'm"
<- serously I could always hear more than freindlyness there

anyway my point here is that..do you too think its a bit odd? is it perhaps because of ashleys religion? because they watnted to avoid a "everyone bi in the future!" scenario

Well I think it's nice not to make them too much just counterparts like that. Feels a bit off if they're too interchangeable.

Edit: Oh and femshep + Garrus all the way! D=<
That's what I'm doing >__>

What the fuck man, 2 romance threads, and one a gay one ?

I think you need to move on to one of these.

image

Anthraxus:
What the fuck man, 2 romance threads, and one a gay one ?

I think you need to move on to one of these.

the first one was asking what was the point in that one arbitraiy charachter..and it answered my question as to weather or not ashly was an option

which then caused me to ask why?

and no...they really arnt my thing

I guess they figured that FemShep already had enough lady suitors (Allers, Traynor and Liara) without adding more to them and I guess they decided that Man-Shep needed at least one more. It's odd though because I know a lot of girl gamers who were hot for Ashley but very few man gamers who wanted Kaidan.

But eh, doesn't really matter. It's a bit of a shame but I can cope, I just wish Ashley had more to say on the Normandy. I still love* her and the moments where she does talk and her romance itself is very good and heartwarming (though it really seems to be made for a player who romanced her in the first game as it doesn't really allow you to 'get to know her', it just expands on her with the assumption that you already do) but damn she runs out of stuff to say once she's on the Normandy.

But still, what's done is done and like I said I still got a good romance out of it. Trying to look at the positives.

In-game explanation: Ashley simply isn't gay

Meta explanation: The amount of people begging for a gay romance possibility with Kaidan before ME3's release was massive

Vrex360:
I guess they figured that FemShep already had enough lady suitors (Allers, Traynor and Liara) without adding more to them and I guess they decided that Man-Shep needed at least one more..

I dont belive Liara counts

and Allers?....ppffffffft

at least I like traynor

but yeah.. I guess I'm more disapointed than anything, still its about time I did a playthrough and saved ashly on virmire,

All I wanted was for Garrus to be bi....... imagine that conversation.

GethBall:
All I wanted was for Garrus to be bi....... imagine that conversation.

Reach...and flexibility...

And why ash is'nt bi?, she hates everything "different" y'know?
So bi and homosexuality won't be on her personal agenda anyways.

If I recall, Ashley was pretty darn Christian.

So perhaps that 's why she wasn't an option? Not sure... I was to busy killing her on Virmire to notice xP

I thought the options for a gay male were pretty sucktackular...and not in a good way.

Kaidan has the personality of a block of wood. In ME1 I was always yelling "Speak up!" when speaking with quiet Kaidan. He has an interestng back story but is way too subdued for me.

The other choice? A guy still greiving over the recent death of his husband. The scene where you can support him to get through his grief is touching, but, seriously, I'm going to give the guy more time before trying to jump his bones. Also, Steve was not developed beyond the fact he was a shuttle pilot and grieving his husband, not much to latch onto.

GethBall:
All I wanted was for Garrus to be bi....... imagine that conversation.

Which is exactly what I wanted. If you're a gay MaleShep you can't go all Captain Kirk and shack up with the aliens. Garrus has the sexiest voice, and by extending the whole bromance he has with Shepard (which was awesome), it could actually make some sense the two end up together.

In terms of the OP's problem, I think it maybe that FemShep has way more lesbian options that perhaps they thought adding Ashley would have been redundant. Still, sucks you didn't get that choice.

Kaiden coming onto me was one of the most jarring moments of the entire game.

I went for a casual man-man meal in the Citadel then he decided to start talking about marraige and being with me forever. IT CAME OUT OF NOWHERE. So jarring and out of place. There was no foreshadowing or indication he was gay before and I hated it because it was so out of character.

MrMixelPixel:
If I recall, Ashley was pretty darn Christian.

So perhaps that 's why she wasn't an option? Not sure... I was to busy killing her on Virmire to notice xP

Interesting point - I think I remember reading something about there being no stigma to being gay in the Mass Effect Universe at all. That'd probably include religious stuff.

But yeah, I was wondering about that, too. Especially since I don't find the new romance options fleshed out enough - except for Cortez perhaps, but I didn't have me no GayShep, so I couldn't say for sure. Traynor had a nice personality at least, while Allers had next to none. Nice War Asset booster, tho. Also a good hookup for my Renegade Shepard who just doesn't care about people too much... Ashley would've been a nice alternative.

endtherapture:
Kaiden coming onto me was one of the most jarring moments of the entire game.

I went for a casual man-man meal in the Citadel then he decided to start talking about marraige and being with me forever. IT CAME OUT OF NOWHERE. So jarring and out of place. There was no foreshadowing or indication he was gay before and I hated it because it was so out of character.

Yeah, I almost fell off my chair. Especially since in the other situations it was always Shepard putting the moves on. Like that "Hey, I'm eye-candy, too"-thing at the bar.

Plus it's easy to miss. I think in that scene he was talking about wanting to be with "someone". One wrong click, and your ME2 romance goes all "But you got Kaiden now" on your ass...

Also, sorry for the doublepost.

TheCaptain:

endtherapture:
Kaiden coming onto me was one of the most jarring moments of the entire game.

I went for a casual man-man meal in the Citadel then he decided to start talking about marraige and being with me forever. IT CAME OUT OF NOWHERE. So jarring and out of place. There was no foreshadowing or indication he was gay before and I hated it because it was so out of character.

Yeah, I almost fell off my chair. Especially since in the other situations it was always Shepard putting the moves on. Like that "Hey, I'm eye-candy, too"-thing at the bar.

Plus it's easy to miss. I think in that scene he was talking about wanting to be with "someone". One wrong click, and your ME2 romance goes all "But you got Kaiden now" on your ass...

Also, sorry for the doublepost.

In the game I kept Kaiden because we had a friendship. I visited him in the hospital as a friend, and I'm pretty sure he knew I was with Liara through all 3 games. Then suddenly he comes onto me. He not only came onto me randomly like that, but he did it even though I was in a relationship with Liara.

It's so unrealistic. I like my Shepard. I'm fine with Kaiden being bi I suppose, but I don't want him to just jump on my straight Shepard. It's literally offensive to bi people how that is handled.

endtherapture:
He not only came onto me randomly like that, but he did it even though I was in a relationship with Liara.

It's so unrealistic. I like my Shepard. I'm fine with Kaiden being bi I suppose, but I don't want him to just jump on my straight Shepard. It's literally offensive to bi people how that is handled.

Think that's about how established relationships are handled in ME 3 in general. It's not perfect there - for example, even when you promised settling down and blue babies in Shadow Broker, you still have to assure that you really really really meant it. Tali at least brought it up right when you spoke to her alone for the first time, but even if Shepard ended ME 2 committing to any love interest, ME 3 puts them in a "we don't really know" place. ME 2 at least had the portrait on the desk.

As for the second part, it doesn't say all bi people are insensitive jerks. Only Kaidan is. :P

TheCaptain:

endtherapture:
He not only came onto me randomly like that, but he did it even though I was in a relationship with Liara.

It's so unrealistic. I like my Shepard. I'm fine with Kaiden being bi I suppose, but I don't want him to just jump on my straight Shepard. It's literally offensive to bi people how that is handled.

Think that's about how established relationships are handled in ME 3 in general. It's not perfect there - for example, even when you promised settling down and blue babies in Shadow Broker, you still have to assure that you really really really meant it. Tali at least brought it up right when you spoke to her alone for the first time, but even if Shepard ended ME 2 committing to any love interest, ME 3 puts them in a "we don't really know" place. ME 2 at least had the portrait on the desk.

As for the second part, it doesn't say all bi people are insensitive jerks. Only Kaidan is. :P

I think it's offensive because Kaidan is interested in Shepard NO MATTER WHAT. It just implies gay/bi people LOVE ALL MEN. Kaidan isn't attracted to specifically a biotic paragon Shepard (who would share his ideals and problems with biotics), he's just attracted to any Shepard. It implies gay/bi men will be attracted to any type of man just to get sex/a relationship.

This is why I think the romances in DA:O are handled better.

endtherapture:
I think it's offensive because Kaidan is interested in Shepard NO MATTER WHAT. It just implies gay/bi people LOVE ALL MEN. Kaidan isn't attracted to specifically a biotic paragon Shepard (who would share his ideals and problems with biotics), he's just attracted to any Shepard. It implies gay/bi men will be attracted to any type of man just to get sex/a relationship.

This is why I think the romances in DA:O are handled better.

Well, it's a bit different - Hawke's personality was a bit more flexible, while even a Renegade Shepard is still basically the same person. Even if you've been nothing but a jerk towards Liara in ME 1/2, they're still portrayed as very close friends. And people don't react to Shep's overall reputation at all, only his decisions in key moments.

I liked the DA2 friendship/rivalry thing... That probably could've worked well for ME 2. Like Paragon/Renegade for what people in general think about Shepard, friendship/rivalry for ifpeople who know him better like him...

Because not everyone in the world is gay?
Plus, what with the "Miranda-ing" of Ashley making her a lesbian would just seem lije massive pandering.

TheCaptain:

endtherapture:
I think it's offensive because Kaidan is interested in Shepard NO MATTER WHAT. It just implies gay/bi people LOVE ALL MEN. Kaidan isn't attracted to specifically a biotic paragon Shepard (who would share his ideals and problems with biotics), he's just attracted to any Shepard. It implies gay/bi men will be attracted to any type of man just to get sex/a relationship.

This is why I think the romances in DA:O are handled better.

Well, it's a bit different - Hawke's personality was a bit more flexible, while even a Renegade Shepard is still basically the same person. Even if you've been nothing but a jerk towards Liara in ME 1/2, they're still portrayed as very close friends. And people don't react to Shep's overall reputation at all, only his decisions in key moments.

I liked the DA2 friendship/rivalry thing... That probably could've worked well for ME 2. Like Paragon/Renegade for what people in general think about Shepard, friendship/rivalry for ifpeople who know him better like him...

In DA:O it works on approval. So if you're a dick, Morrigan will like you but Leliana won't. I thought that was good because Morrigan isn't going to fall in love with some awesome paladin, and Leliana won't fall in love with a dick.

It should be so that a character like Jack will only fall in love with strongly Renegade characters, whilst someone like Tali would only fall for a Paragon Shepard.

Because she's straight and a devout christian.

There. Done. /thread.

endtherapture:

In DA:O it works on approval. So if you're a dick, Morrigan will like you but Leliana won't. I thought that was good because Morrigan isn't going to fall in love with some awesome paladin, and Leliana won't fall in love with a dick.

It should be so that a character like Jack will only fall in love with strongly Renegade characters, whilst someone like Tali would only fall for a Paragon Shepard.

Well, while there's no approval rating in ME (which didn't work too well because of the huge amount of gifts in DA:O, you could just give everyone loads of stuff to make them like you), it kinda is like you said in some capacity.

Take Jack, for example.

I guess there's only so much in-depth romance mechanics you can put into the game without it turning into some dating sim, but Mass Effect handled it quite well.

Hate to break it to you, but Ashley has been dead since Mass Effect 1. You cant romance a corpse.

It seems even more odd given that they did gay Ashley conversations in ME1 (that they decided not to use) in the same way they did for Kaiden.

woodaba:
Because she's straight and a devout christian.

There. Done. /thread.

To be fair her repressing her sexuality because of her faith could have made for great characterisation.

Also, femshep had way less romance options overall which is a bit of a shame =/

I've heard a few weren't included because the voice actors didn't want to voice gay/lesbian scenes which would be a real shame if it were true.

Ashley was always the family values type. The conversations you have with her in the first Mass Effect paint her as a devout Christian, xenophobe and somewhat intolerant. I'm not surprised that she wouldn't be a love interest for FemShep even if there was some characterization potential for an in-the-closet Ashley.

hazabaza1:
Because not everyone in the world is gay?
Plus, what with the "Miranda-ing" of Ashley making her a lesbian would just seem lije massive pandering.

she wears her hair out..but I wouldnt call it "miranda-ing"

Mr Pantomime:
Hate to break it to you, but Ashley has been dead since Mass Effect 1. You cant romance a corpse.

the necrophelia comunity would like to have a word with you

Ilikemilkshake:

woodaba:
Because she's straight and a devout christian.

There. Done. /thread.

To be fair her repressing her sexuality because of her faith could have made for great characterisation.

Also, femshep had way less romance options overall which is a bit of a shame =/

I've heard a few weren't included because the voice actors didn't want to voice gay/lesbian scenes which would be a real shame if it were true.

that sounds hot interesting

hmmm....I dont think thats true..it just sounds unlikley, Kaiden does it...plus there voice actors,

PLUS shepard romnacing aliens

Vault101:

hazabaza1:
Because not everyone in the world is gay?
Plus, what with the "Miranda-ing" of Ashley making her a lesbian would just seem lije massive pandering.

she wears her hair out..but I wouldnt call it "miranda-ing"

Mr Pantomime:
Hate to break it to you, but Ashley has been dead since Mass Effect 1. You cant romance a corpse.

the necrophelia comunity would like to have a word with you

Ilikemilkshake:

woodaba:
Because she's straight and a devout christian.

There. Done. /thread.

To be fair her repressing her sexuality because of her faith could have made for great characterisation.

Also, femshep had way less romance options overall which is a bit of a shame =/

I've heard a few weren't included because the voice actors didn't want to voice gay/lesbian scenes which would be a real shame if it were true.

that sounds hot interesting

hmmm....I dont think thats true..it just sounds unlikley, Kaiden does it...plus there voice actors,

PLUS shepard romnacing aliens

The voice actors for the other characters i mean, not Sheps VA.
It was specifically Talis VA who i heard this about, although i can't remember the source.
It was just a rumour though, although it seemed plausible.

Vault101:

hazabaza1:
Because not everyone in the world is gay?
Plus, what with the "Miranda-ing" of Ashley making her a lesbian would just seem lije massive pandering.

she wears her hair out..but I wouldnt call it "miranda-ing"

Didn't Bioware say before release that they were trying to take inspiration from Miranda? Or at least, they used the word "sexy" a lot.
Still, I suppose it's not all as ridiculous as Miranda. Ashley wears two layers of tight clothing so it doesn't wrap around her arse.

The words "I killed the bitch anyway" spring to mind.

hazabaza1:

Vault101:

hazabaza1:
Because not everyone in the world is gay?
Plus, what with the "Miranda-ing" of Ashley making her a lesbian would just seem lije massive pandering.

she wears her hair out..but I wouldnt call it "miranda-ing"

Didn't Bioware say before release that they were trying to take inspiration from Miranda? Or at least, they used the word "sexy" a lot.
Still, I suppose it's not all as ridiculous as Miranda. Ashley wears two layers of tight clothing so it doesn't wrap around her arse.

I read in thr artbook they wanted to add "sex apeal"

I can understand why it would seem a little out of place for ashley

for miranda on the otherhand you could say its part of her charachter, and I think it also gives you a feel for how cerberus is a different kind of organisation than aliance military

hazabaza1:
massive pandering.

I'm shocked, shocked, to find pandering going on in a Bioware game.

endtherapture:

I went for a casual man-man meal in the Citadel then he decided to start talking about marraige and being with me forever. IT CAME OUT OF NOWHERE.

Also part of the classic Bioware experience. I don't think it has anything to do with sexuality - their flags for what constitutes a "romance" are all kinds of messed up. I seem to remember Leliana coming off as a crazed stalker who was convinced the Warden was in love with her because they had a conversation about past relationships once. (That I skipped through most of because Leliana has an obnoxious voice.)

Vault101:

Vrex360:
I guess they figured that FemShep already had enough lady suitors (Allers, Traynor and Liara) without adding more to them and I guess they decided that Man-Shep needed at least one more..

I dont belive Liara counts

and Allers?....ppffffffft

at least I like traynor

but yeah.. I guess I'm more disapointed than anything, still its about time I did a playthrough and saved ashly on virmire,

Come on, Liara definitely counts. Jim Sterling had a good analogy for it..

AFAIK, Ashly once said that she was religious, which usually means not gay.
Religion and homosexuality don't go together.

GethBall:
All I wanted was for Garrus to be bi....... imagine that conversation.

Actually, that's something that kind of struck me as weird about romancing aliens in Mass Effect - surely they wouldn't particularly care about your character's gender? Or at least they'd have different conceptions of sexuality. If they were willing to get romanced by someone not of their species, the GENDER of that individual is unlikely to be a big issue (unless they're quite picky xenophiles) and they probably realise that babies are unlikely to result. The whole asari "we're all space bisexuals" makes more sense than Garrus only going after FemShep - hell, turians barely have any physical difference between males and females.

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