Do you "owe" your parents grandchildren?

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SmashLovesTitanQuest:

You are antisocial, atheist and awkward with the other sex while you were captain of the football team, visit a prestigious college and overachieve?

Mindfuck man. Mindfuck.

EDIT: Im starting to like these new captchas. I was just asked to describe the brand Hilton with any words and "Fuck off with the ads already you annoying cunts" worked. Glorious.

It's surprisingly easy to be something you're not. It's the only thing I'm really good at, actually. But the "act" can only go so far before it falls apart. I'll just be relieved when it finally happens.

Vault101:

do you feel any obligation to have grand children if thats what your parents want? perhaps from a "continuning the line" point of veiw?

HELL-fucking-NO. Your parents chose to have you, as soon as you became an adult and became responsible for yourself, all your choices became your own. To think you owe someone simply for birthing them is insane. It isn't like you signed some prenatal contract to birth them grandchildren when you reach the appropriate age. Even if you are the last of the line, who gives a shit? I guess it would be nice if you had kids, especially if your parents really wanted you to but it is still your life and ultimately your choice. I'm so opposed to to thinking you could have any obligation like this, it literally baffles me that anyone could think that way.

I owe my parents a lot of things but grandchildren isn't one of them. And thankfully they are not so irrational as to feel arbitrarily entitled to them.

I've never let my parents influence my decisions, I wouldn't start if they suddenly implied they wanted grandkids. That said, I'd have to be in a relationship first, so hah!

Uh, kinda.

I mean, my parents already have a grandchild, eldest sister is married and my other sister is engaged.

However, I don't believe there are any male heirs to my family name. Feels kinda strange knowing that'll die with me, at least within my close bloodline that is. There may be other people called it, but, they're distant family, I suppose.

Kendarik:
[snip.

nice little analysis there..but no, my parents/upbringing were very close to Ideal (and my parents are rather laid back..more or less)

no, this is just somthing I persoanlly STRONGLY disagree with..is all....sure parents "meddle" in their kids lives (because they love them) but there is a line

I could think on nothing worse than my mother being a controlling bitch and trying to dictate what I do with my life....

as I said, I belive strongly that we should be free to do what we want in life..you dont "owe" your parents or ANYONE children, I dont care about that evolutionary bullshit people pull...weather or not it actually matters to anyone is purely subjective

weather I will or wont have children...is entirly up to me, its my life

Shotgun Guy:

Vault101:

do you feel any obligation to have grand children if thats what your parents want? perhaps from a "continuning the line" point of veiw?

HELL-fucking-NO. Your parents chose to have you, as soon as you became an adult and became responsible for yourself, all your choices became your own. To think you owe someone simply for birthing them is insane. It isn't like you signed some prenatal contract to birth them grandchildren when you reach the appropriate age. Even if you are the last of the line, who gives a shit? I guess it would be nice if you had kids, especially if your parents really wanted you to but it is still your life and ultimately your choice. I'm so opposed to to thinking you could have any obligation like this, it literally baffles me that anyone could think that way.

I agree completley..as I said (Im not sure if there is a proper term for it) but I dont belive we have a HUGE obligation...for alot of things...Im all for the rights of the induvidual

Griffolion:

Vault101:
-snip-

The great test for me would be this:

Me: "So mum, dad, you would like grand kids?"

Parents: "Yeah, that would be lovely."

Me: "Well me and *insert partner name* are thinking of adopting a child from Uganda."

Now their reaction would determine whether or not I would take pleasure in honouring their desire (and my own desire for children) with what they wish.

THAT is brilliant

I wonder who the selfish one is then...

Absolutely not. I do not owe my parents grandchildren. No matter how badly they want them, no matter how many times my mother tells me I "will change my mind someday." No, no, a thousand times no.

There is a list as long as my arm of things that would have to happen before I would ever consider having children. Regardless of any claim to the contrary, no one can be prepared for parenthood, but there are things I would have to do to become less unprepared. Little things like:

1) Need to believe in love;
2) Need to find a woman who can stand my company for extended periods (say, longer than ten seconds);
3) Need to stop my indescribable loathing for children;
4) Need to feel like the values I would attempt to instill in my offspring -- honesty, a decent day's work, etc -- would be assets in society, rather than liabilities;

and many, many more. As I have reached the age of 35 without checkmarking a single item on that list, it is safe to say I will never have kids.

Fine with me.

I. Hate. Children.

But, that aside, I would have to adopt or surrogate (see: homosex) and the first, I don't agree with personally, as bad as this may sound, I couldn't care for a child as much if it wasn't my own, and the second, I think it unfair on the surrogate mother.

BUT, lets pretend that the option was there, would I? HElL TO THE NO. I hate kids, SO MUCH, they're annoying, whiney, smell bad, stupid and they'll just grow up to hate you for 18 years, and take up money. Who in their right mind would want that... Besides, my parents have two other kids, I'm sure they can pop some out.

I feel no obligation to do so, it was kind of how I was raised, to "think for myself" and with my interests at heart, and not somebody elses, including my parents.

When and if I do I'm not letting them spend too much time with my mom, so what's the point.

DkLnBr:

This sounds like my Mom (and Dad). They aren't pushing me to do anything, but they do expect me to get married with kids. They always seem to hint at the topic when they can. "DkLnBr! clean your room, you're wife wont like it being messy", "DkLnBr make dinner, your wife will love it if you know how to cook", etc. So just "subtle" hints towards it, but nothing really annoying, so i dont care.

That's pretty much what my mom does. No pressing on the issue, just subtle things dropped in. I don't think it necessarily means she wants grandchildren, but rather she expects me to do the "socitetally correct" thing and get married. I mean, LOTS of people get married and have kids, so I'm guessing she just kinda expects that I'll do the same, not that she WANTS me to do so. It's not gonna happen though... Well, if I do get married it won't be to someone of the opposite gender like she expects anyways.

No I don't.

Not like it'll ever be an issue for me (/foreveraloneface), but I wouldn't do it anyway.

Vault101:
this little dilema ocured to me while (not intentionally) catching some of a reality TV show on TV last night

besically as far as I can tell its about thease mothers who hand pick potential partners for their sons

now this may be a little harsh but what kind of a limp-dick asshole lets his mother choose his partner for him? (ok ok..there is arranged marrage which can actually work somtimes) but THIS just made me angry

now anyway...although it was never outright stated you can just tell thease are the kinds of bitches who demand granchildren..no doubt to fuel their ego with their little "matriarch" fantasys...(again if my feelings about this arnt clear up to this point)

so what was I constantly yelling at the TV last night? "if the dried up old twat wants grand children she should fucking adopt them herself!" <-several times

the reason I feel so strongly about this is because I guess Im all for people choosing what they want, I dont think that the mother has any entitlment to what her children choose to do in their lives...its that kind of controlling matriarchy thing that I find downright disgusting (I know its cultrual somtmes..but IMO family should stay the fuck out when they arnt wanted)

*sigh*..so anyway do you feel any obligation to have grand children if thats what your parents want? perhaps from a "continuning the line" point of veiw?

Hell no even if my parents really wanted grandchildren I woulden't. I want to spend my whole life doing what ever I want all the time. I can't do that if I have kids to take care of. I just want to party with my girlfriend all my life.

Johnny Impact:
snip.
.

1) Need to believe in love; not nessicaryly, I dont really care about this whole "love" thing...what ever its suposed to be (anti-romantic here) but the fact that poepel can care enough about each other (and work at it) to form long term relationships...well thats somthing isnt it?

2) Need to find a woman who can stand my company for extended periods (say, longer than ten seconds); Im sure she exists...on this plane of existance

3) Need to stop my indescribable loathing for children; EVERYONE hates children at some point...other peopels children..I'd bet you'd feel differently about your own

4) Need to feel like the values I would attempt to instill in my offspring -- honesty, a decent day's work, etc -- would be assets in society, rather than liabilities; your being a little cynical there...they arnt liabilites

Do I feel I owe my parents or grandparents something that'd surely change my entire life and possibly destroy it? No, no I don't.

I would say no, because I didn't ask to be born into this earth. I don't have any obligation to them in that regard since I didn't ask for this. My only obligation is to not be a dick.

That said, I feel that I've got some damn-good genes overall, and that humanity would benefit from my procreation, so I likely will in the future.

Eh, I was a little hell spawn growing up, so I'm sure that my parents wouldn't be too thrilled to relive the "glory days" with another evil mini-me running around.

They can barely stand my siblings as it is...

Still, I'm hoping that my future spouse is a bit on the shy side so that my kid could probably end up a little more tamer.

Oh, who am I kidding?! My kid's going to bring hell to my family and I will be so proud.

They've already got one, and I sure as shit can't see myself settling down in the relatively distant future.

They're the kind of people that would be able to "deal with it". And if I eventually did start a family, I'm sort of more interested in the adoption method.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

EDIT: Im starting to like these new captchas. I was just asked to describe the brand Hilton with any words and "Fuck off with the ads already you annoying cunts" worked. Glorious.

Yep, I finally just answered with "the all new shitty Sonic", and it let me pass. (tee hee, so clever, I know)

Vault101:
-snip-

There is actually some genuine method behind this. I'd be testing to see if they just wanted to "see the line continued" or if they were genuinely interested in putting into a life of a child I wish to consider my child, be that through natural means or adoption.

Vault101:

Not entirely sure if the point stuck, but heres to hoping.

Obviously this is all subject to change (our brainchemistry sort of changes as we get older, which brings said changes), but I'm doing my best to avoid said change.

you can't fight it...the desire to produce spawn will eventually consume you....

one of us...one of us...one of us...one of us....

Ha, not impossible. Difficult, yeah, more so for some than for others (though it's FAR easier for me than it is for the majority of hoomankind, thankfully). Really all a matter of not arriving at that particular point in your life, where circumstances basically make you change your mind (i.e a long-term relationship of sorts for one thing, which is also something I don't find very appealing to begin with, and that's just one of the many circumstances).

In the end, I just don't like children and I know what sort of lifestyle changes they would bring, and I find them completely unacceptable(even the best case scenario is grossly inferior to just not having them). And yes, I'm making my choice based on reason. I just don't feel the need for children, and I'm really fucking glad for that.

Vault101:
this little dilema ocured to me while (not intentionally) catching some of a reality TV show on TV last night

besically as far as I can tell its about thease mothers who hand pick potential partners for their sons

now this may be a little harsh but what kind of a limp-dick asshole lets his mother choose his partner for him? (ok ok..there is arranged marrage which can actually work somtimes) but THIS just made me angry

now anyway...although it was never outright stated you can just tell thease are the kinds of bitches who demand granchildren..no doubt to fuel their ego with their little "matriarch" fantasys...(again if my feelings about this arnt clear up to this point)

so what was I constantly yelling at the TV last night? "if the dried up old twat wants grand children she should fucking adopt them herself!" <-several times

the reason I feel so strongly about this is because I guess Im all for people choosing what they want, I dont think that the mother has any entitlment to what her children choose to do in their lives...its that kind of controlling matriarchy thing that I find downright disgusting (I know its cultrual somtmes..but IMO family should stay the fuck out when they arnt wanted)

*sigh*..so anyway do you feel any obligation to have grand children if thats what your parents want? perhaps from a "continuning the line" point of veiw?

You don't owe your parents ANYTHING - sex feels good; people usually want children. Your parents, gasp, had sex because they WANTED to. You resulted. You are their responsibility; not the other way around. You owe your parents nothing, because it was their own self-fulfilling act that made you. If they didn't want you; they didn't have to hook up.

That having been said, I'm a 33 year old guy who hasn't talked to his mother for 2 years or his father for... over 20 years. I'm happy, my wife of 12 years is happy... WTF would we "owe" anybody anything? Our parents "owe" us care until we're 18 and hey - if you don't want kids? Don't have them.

Luftwaffles:
I suppose it would come up when your parents friends ask them "so do you guys have any grandchildren yet" as a way of comparing how successful a pair is at furthering their genes.

That IS what it is. And it's not bad; we're biologically programmed to care about the continuation of our species. I just never felt it was MY responsibility when so many other dumbasses were having way more children than they could support; or were required to replace them.

:)

H31neken:

you can't fight it...the desire to produce spawn will eventually consume you....

one of us...one of us...one of us...one of us....
Ha, not impossible.

Yeah. Not impossible. Especially if, like me, you marry a woman who had her tubes tied purposefully to never procreate. When we were 23 and 21, respectively. Getting sterilized at such a young age required a psych eval on her part; but it was worth it. Blissful 12 years of marriage worrying about our needs instead of our children's needs. :)

I'll give them grandchildren when they're prepared to look after them all day and night whilst I work and live the life I want..

Considering my parents are still going to be looking after my autistic brother until they're dead so I don't think they're gonna want any more hassles..

Besides, I may have a repressed autistic gene, so its not worth bothering..

my mother already has 9 of the little shits and i'm guessing she is not betting on getting one from me, the whole kid thing is looking fairly unlikely let alone an actual relationship, if i find myself bored in my late 30's i plan to adopt a chinese baby which i guess counts?

We individualists seem to have come to an agreement on the the matter (I need not say we do not owe our parents anything for it has been stated many times in this thread). If this question were given to people of a collectivist culture, like the Chinese, the prevailing opinion would the direct opposite of ours. In Chinese culture, the children owe their parents their lives and must do as their parents say, even when the children are adults. Good thing I was not born in a collectivist society.

Vault101:

Johnny Impact:
snip.
.

1) Need to believe in love; not nessicaryly, I dont really care about this whole "love" thing...what ever its suposed to be (anti-romantic here) but the fact that poepel can care enough about each other (and work at it) to form long term relationships

That's more or less what I mean by love.

2) Need to find a woman who can stand my company for extended periods (say, longer than ten seconds); Im sure she exists...on this plane of existance

3) Need to stop my indescribable loathing for children; EVERYONE hates children at some point...other peopels children..I'd bet you'd feel differently about your own

........Mom?? What are you doing disguised as some random dude on the Escapist forum??

I have no doubt there are women out there with whom I could be happy, and who could be happy with me. However, my interests are obscure, I suck at conversation, my looks are average at best, and I don't have money. This means she will tell me to piss off, just like all the others did.

And don't hand me any crap about cynicism. Spotting a trend, even a negative trend, and using it to inform and shape my life, does NOT make me a cynic, just an observer of human behavior. Women do not say yes to me. It's just not something that happens. Through many years of trial and error I have learned that it truly is a waste of time to ask. I treat women the same way I treat men: greet them when they walk in the door, share conversation, tell jokes, whatever -- but that's as far as it goes. I am harmless in every possible way, I might as well be gay for all the interest I would ever express in a woman. Nevertheless, I seem to get pegged as the potentially dangerous weirdo/predator who is best avoided. Such is life.

4) Need to feel like the values I would attempt to instill in my offspring -- honesty, a decent day's work, etc -- would be assets in society, rather than liabilities; your being a little cynical there...they arnt liabilites

I'm a supervisor at my job. Let me explain to you what honesty and work ethic mean there.

I once saw (well actually I see it almost every day, but let's continue) one of the crew sit on a bucket for a whole hour, just shooting the breeze with the folks who were working. I came up to him and said, "You have ninety minutes left in your shift. There's a list posted on that wall of things that need to be done. I want you to cross off two items before you leave." His response was to mouth off to me and continue sitting there. Ninety minutes later he got up -- to clock out for the day.

Now, in my opinion, this kind of crap should not be tolerated. Anyone who sits around like that is dead weight. Anyone who mouths off to a supervisor has a poor attitude and poorer judgment. I have heard of jobs where doing either of those things will get you fired the first time it happens. No discussion, no second chance, you're just gone.

At *MY* job? He's been getting away with it for three years. I cannot even mention this behavior to my boss because I will be told I am the one with the problem. I'm not even joking, my boss actually believes it is wrong to expect people to do their jobs, and even more wrong to call them on it when they don't. It has happened before: we had a girl who was always half an hour late for no reason, when I tried to make an issue of it my boss told me I wasn't being forgiving enough. I can give many, many more examples. I don't expect perfection, but there has got to be a line somewhere -- except, apparently, there is no need for a line, because we sure haven't got one.

My work ethic -- the best at my place of employment, I don't mind telling you -- does not mean that I make more money. It does not mean that I have authority or upward mobility. It means I get to do my own work, and do others' work, and take crap off arrogant kids who do nothing but cost the company money and bring down morale. There is, in fact, no benefit, tangible or otherwise.

Before you try to tell me I wouldn't be a supervisor if I wasn't honest and hard-working, you should know I got the position because the previous manager and the supervisor who was next in line for his job were both fired for bringing marijuana to work. They had to promote someone so they picked the next most senior guy for manager and me (at random) for supervisor. I didn't get the job on merit, I got it on someone else's demerit.

Don't even get me started on how terrible it is to be honest. For example, I could tell you, "Your poor spelling significantly reduces the weight of your arguments. For your own sake, please learn to do better," and I would be absolutely correct. But you don't want to hear that. Honesty earns no friends.

Johnny Impact:
snip.

That's more or less what I mean by love.

well it DOES exist then...mabye not for you :P

........Mom?? What are you doing disguised as some random dude on the Escapist forum??

I'm trying to look out for you jhonny, I don't see why you have to talk with all thease strange people on the interent....also clean your damn room! its a mess

(and johnny I wish you would stop with the Zombie Porn...its not natural..yes young man..dont think dont know whats on your computer!)

I'm a supervisor at my job. Let me explain to you what honesty and work ethic mean there.

Yes, I know there are "those" people out there..who skirt by on their asses and ALWAYS get away with it..while the hard workers pick up the slack..its an unfortunate fact of life

but its always better to be one of the "better" people...because then on the off chance you wont get called out for your bullshti

I have other siblings that can do that, anyways I ain't having kids seeing how the people I am interested in have no womb.

Vault101:

Johnny Impact:
snip.

That's more or less what I mean by love.

well it DOES exist then...mabye not for you :P

Oh, I acknowledge the existence of love. I never said it didn't exist.

I said I don't believe in it.

Johnny Impact:

Vault101:

Johnny Impact:
snip.

That's more or less what I mean by love.

well it DOES exist then...mabye not for you :P

Oh, I acknowledge the existence of love. I never said it didn't exist.

I said I don't believe in it.

you know...somones attitude can have a big effect on their life..

just saying

The way I see it, my mom already has five grandkids, which should be plenty. I don't need to add to the pool.

No. My parents may be the reason I'm alive, but that doesn't mean I owe them my uterus.

Then again, my siblings all have kids of their own, so a lot of the pressure is off, at least from my parents. But one of my sisters can't fucking stop. Stomach ache? "HURR DURR ARE YOU PREGNANT?" Stomach flu? "HURR DURR ARE YOU PREGNANT?" Eating a bit more for dinner one time because I'm hungry? "HURR DURR ARE YOU PREGNANT?" And never fucking dropping the subject.

Lord no !

Having kids requires so much dedication, time, love, you and your partner need to be 100% committed. Putting pressure on someone else to have kids is SO SO SO wrong.

Hell, it's not like we have kingdoms to keep ruling and alliances to make...

I don't want kids and I know my mother will probably be a bit sad because she is head over heels in love with her grandson (my nephew). But since my sister want more of them...

Oh, and one time my aunt (who has a son and a daughter) told me : "it's not the same when it's your daughter, it's even more special." So yeah.

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