School Uniforms? Yay or Nay?
Yes (Went to a School that required uniform)
36.4% (285)
36.4% (285)
No (Went to a School that required uniform)
17.4% (136)
17.4% (136)
Yes (Did not go to a School that required uniform)
12.9% (101)
12.9% (101)
No (Did not go to a School that required uniform)
29.4% (230)
29.4% (230)
Other (Please specify)
3.1% (24)
3.1% (24)
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Poll: Your opinion on School Uniforms.

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Uniforms are meant to promote unity as all look the same. Also to beat bullying because you are poorer and thus your clothes you wear make you susceptible to bullying. School is to learn, not a fashion show. :-) When i was a kid, you would get bullied or looked down on if you didnt wear brand name trainers. Its pathetic. Although now with iphones/ipads etc i guess i guess clothing doesnt matter any more when you have last years phone. Its still pathetic though.

SonOfVoorhees:
Uniforms are meant to promote unity as all look the same. Also to beat bullying because you are poorer and thus your clothes you wear make you susceptible to bullying. School is to learn, not a fashion show. :-) When i was a kid, you would get bullied or looked down on if you didnt wear brand name trainers. Its pathetic. Although now with iphones/ipads etc i guess i guess clothing doesnt matter any more when you have last years phone. Its still pathetic though.

I'm twenty years old. I left school four years ago. I STILL get made fun of if my friends have better phones. That shit never changes.

I have not been to any school with uniforms, but I would personally believe I wouldn't find a taste for them. I don't feel like myself if I'm not wearing my Aperture science hoodie, and fedora. Kinda got used to wearing those, and now it kinda feels like I should. Suppose I'm weird like that. I can see that it's supposed to be unity and anti bulley, but it never seems to be exactly clothe outfit. Though the schools I went to the issues weren't the student, it was the staff..

I don't think any danish public schools and such requires uniform, if they did I wouldn't like it, unless it would be T-shirts and shorts all year round.

I hate the very idea of school uniforms. It represents anti-individualism and strict adherence to authority.
Just let the kids express themselves. Every form of limitation you throw at kids is actively killing their creativity and enthusiasm for exploration. Even though I don't care about fashion I can't deny that a sense of personal style and the expression of it is important for kids and their development. School uniforms is shaping their minds to be more obedient. Is that what society needs? Obedient drones? People who look the same, talk the same and like the same things? The most beloved people in our history were innovators and freethinkers. Individuals who didn't allow the society to tie them down and tell them what to do and how to do it. Those are the values that we should teach our kids to aspire to. And wearing school uniforms just sends the wrong message. It's the first step in the wrong direction.

I'm not saying that school uniforms are the main problem. No. They are merely one of the symptoms.

I went to two schools that required uniform and then a sixth form that required suits.

Requiring suits/smart clothing I think is completely appropriate, but having a specific school uniform puts you at the mercy of the uniform supplier. My school blazer was hideously expensive.

Specifically requiring girls wear skirts also creates problems for people who need to cover up. The few Muslim girls at my secondary school did the sensible thing and simply wore trousers instead (ignoring the uniform rules). I always felt a bit jealous because I hated wearing skirts (especially in winter) but couldn't get away with wearing trousers.

A girl at my primary school (unfortunately, after I'd already left) actually managed to get the girls-must-wear-skirts rule changed by just turning up in smart trousers every day. The teachers tried sending her home to change for the first few days, then gave up.

I think schools should just specify shirt/blouse, black/grey skirt/trousers and smart shoes.

EcoEclipse:
No, because I'm lazy. Schools that require uniforms only give you one, don't they? So, doesn't that mean having to do laundry every day? Sounds like a waste.

In the UK, you don't generally get given the uniform by your school. You have to buy it. So you can buy as many as you like, but it can get quite expensive if your school requires you to use a particular uniform supplier.

I approve of them, they are smart looking and make the school look better.

I went to a school with a comfy uniform, so maybe I am biased (we didn't wear a tie, like 95% of secondary schools in Ireland)

1.I didn't choose which school to go to, my parents did it with only very little input from my side ("Would you like to learn french?" "I guess"). Which school I'm going to says very little about me as a person and more about me as someone who lives in its relative vicinity. Also that my grades in elementary school weren't bad enough to get sent to a lower school. Why should I want to identify myself with it? Also, while I get along well with pretty much all of my schoolmates and am friends with some of them, I don't see why I should feel a sense of a special connection with them just because we have the same teachers. After all, the problems I face are very universal for kids and teenagers everywhere. It's not like they were my old unit back in 'Nam or anything.
2. If someone is seriously bullied (not a few instances of trashtalking, some guy being an occasional dick) the problem won't be solved by changing clothes.
3. Why should a school require you to dress "smart"? You aren't trying to sell anybody anything there, you are there to get knowledge beaten into your stupid little heads. If people not being dressed in a "smart" way around you is an obstacle in this, the problem probably doesn't stem from them. Also, how would you people ever survive university?

Yes, with a qualification:

The uniforms have to be comfortable, and to reasonable degrees of strictness. Here's what I mean:
I went to two schools for secondary, both of which shall remain unnamed.

The first one (I was only there for a year) had strict guidelines requiring suits, ties, regardless of what time of year. We had to wear their socks (I wish I was fucking kidding) and wear their bags, neither of which were particularly good. They also had strict guidelines about facial hair (Specifically you cannot have any motherfucker) and hair. We also had to change into an entirely different PE outfit that wasn't assisting in the matter of how much crap we have to carry around, and because of that we had to spend the entirety of our recess and lunch breaks changing. We couldn't even change out on our way home, and sometimes the principal would wait at the train station to make sure we adhered to those petty rules. And to top it off, the uniforms were fucking expensive.

The second one was by comparison far more laid back. They didn't care about what bags, socks, or shoes we wore. They didn't care how we did our hair, be it facial or on your cranium. We had two choices of everyday uniform: Cargo Pants/shorts/skirt (they were fine with men wearing them I should point out) and a light polo shirt, or a suit which only a few mad bastards would pick. For winter we could wear coats, hoodies, parachute jackets, jumpers, or just go without if you're part Nord. For PE, all we really had to change was our shirt, and it was all pretty inexpensive.

The latter was a good example of uniform done correctly. It made it clear who we were on campus, but it didn't dig too deep into our parents pockets, it was practical, reasonable about it's guidelines, and comfortable.

I went to a Catholic School for most of my elementary and some of Jr. high years and was required to wear a uniform through all of it.

While you still can't get me into a powder blue button up shirt and black slacks these days due in no small part to the fact that I think it makes me "look like I'm playing school boy." I didn't really have a problem with the uniform at the time and don't have issues with it now.

What I do end up having problems with are schools without uniforms that still enforce ridiculous dress codes that involve things like. "No black clothing."

The logic as I understand it is black clothing = goth kids and goth kids = school shootings.
Therefore no black clothing = no goth kids = problem solved.

It's completely insane.

They are a good idea, when I was in senior school in the 90s (high school) people used to pick on the ones from poorer families or families unwilling to sell their souls to catalogues. Having cheap trainers instead of 100 Nike Air Max or a cheap bag instead of a branded sports bag caused enough bullying, it would have been even worse for the kids not wearing Nike popper trackie bottoms and Lacoste T-shirts.

MetalMagpie:

EcoEclipse:
No, because I'm lazy. Schools that require uniforms only give you one, don't they? So, doesn't that mean having to do laundry every day? Sounds like a waste.

In the UK, you don't generally get given the uniform by your school. You have to buy it. So you can buy as many as you like, but it can get quite expensive if your school requires you to use a particular uniform supplier.

Well, that just seems even worse! I feel like if the school is requiring it, they should supply it.

EcoEclipse:

MetalMagpie:

EcoEclipse:
No, because I'm lazy. Schools that require uniforms only give you one, don't they? So, doesn't that mean having to do laundry every day? Sounds like a waste.

In the UK, you don't generally get given the uniform by your school. You have to buy it. So you can buy as many as you like, but it can get quite expensive if your school requires you to use a particular uniform supplier.

Well, that just seems even worse! I feel like if the school is requiring it, they should supply it.

In the UK almost all schools require students to wear a uniform, so it's an accepted expense that parents know they'll have to account for. I imagine most schools in the USA require students to wear some sort of footwear to school, but the school doesn't supply it.

It's not too bad, providing you pick your school carefully if you have tight finances. Big supermarkets sell generic school uniform in a variety of colours, which works as long as the school doesn't have expensive crested blazers or demand that you buy the whole lot from them (often hugely marked up so the school can make a profit on them).

I went to a private school, so had to wear a massively over-priced uniform from the school's chosen supplier. Although there were second-hand uniform sales to help students from less well-off families afford it, you could always spot the students wearing outdated, faded blazers. They were generally the kids who had got in on scholarship, so their parents didn't have to pay the fees.

My sister went to a state school (where they don't assume your parents are rich) so she only had to buy a jumper with the school's crest on from the school itself. The rest of the uniform could be bought from a supermarket.

According to the law (Scot's Law at least) any State (public) School's uniform must be affordable. As mentioned most supermarkets provide fairly cheap uniform in bulk. The most expensive it got foe me was my blazer which was around 70. However those things were built to last and you could even sell them back to get some of the next one, and even then I only went through two.

On a side note: Anyone else remember getting school uniform two sizes too big so it would last longer during those growth spurt stages? :p

Also all these posts regarding individuality being crushed are just not true, and if anything are rather silly.

i had no problem in school uniforms, i went to two schools which both made me wear a uniform so 13 years or so in uniform. I didn't mind and still don't.

Two things:
One -


This little gem. In school, you're just another product in the production line. You're not special. You all get the same education and then fuck off to the big bad world.

Two - I went to a school with a uniform since I was in first grade. I support the practice.

Strazdas:
It makes me sad to live on a planet where majority of youth think school uniforms are acceptable....

Uh... and why are they so terribly unacceptable?

Joccaren:

Father Time:
That would only be true if you could express anything through any clothing. But it doesn't work that way, especially with uniforms which demand everyone look the same.

There are a number of things that you can express through how you wear any set of clothing that mean far more than what that clothing is. Yeah, all the uniforms will look the same but read the second part that you quoted and you'll notice that there is more than 1 way of wearing these clothes, and that speaks more about who you are then wearing tracksuit pants instead of jeans ever will.

And some schools have dress codes requiring you to wear them a certain way. My old middle school demanded people tuck their shirts in and we didn't even have a uniform.

You do realize that people can put writing on their clothes or wear clothes with specific images. You really going to tell me that any combination of writing and images can be matched by a school uniform?

No, but they are far outclassed by how the person expresses themselves through behaviour and attitude.

And now we're moving the goalposts.

Also schools don't NEED uniforms.

We could go on all day listing things that don't NEED to happen, but that's rather irrelevant to the discussion. School's don't need to have uniforms, students don't need to wear free dress, and the rules come down to the individual choice of the school. Some feel that the benefits of a uniform aren't enough to outweigh the negatives, many feel the opposite.

If it's a restrictive rule that the schools don't need then as a general rule of thumb it's better to not have it.

You admitted that there are ways to express yourself with clothing that can't be done with school uniforms so they limit expression. Next you counter with 'students don't need it' which is a weak excuse because schools don't need the uniforms.

Dijkstra:

Strazdas:
It makes me sad to live on a planet where majority of youth think school uniforms are acceptable....

Uh... and why are they so terribly unacceptable?

Because they're totally unnecessary and restrict expression amongst other things.

Father Time:

Dijkstra:

Strazdas:
It makes me sad to live on a planet where majority of youth think school uniforms are acceptable....

Uh... and why are they so terribly unacceptable?

Because they're totally unnecessary and restrict expression.

Restriction of expression? So? Expression through clothing isn't necessary.

Sure uniforms are unnecessary. And?

You're not doing a good job of going through the steps of showing how that is unacceptable. You make two claims, don't show their importance, and think that supposedly shows that it is unacceptable?

Dijkstra:

Father Time:

Dijkstra:

Uh... and why are they so terribly unacceptable?

Because they're totally unnecessary and restrict expression.

Restriction of expression? So? Expression through clothing isn't necessary.

Sure uniforms are unnecessary. And?

First sentence: So what, that's unnecessary
Second sentence: So what if something's unnecessary you need more than that.

School uniforms are an unneeded restriction on students that probably don't accomplish much good anyway. Why shouldn't they be done away with?

Father Time:

Dijkstra:

Father Time:

Because they're totally unnecessary and restrict expression.

Restriction of expression? So? Expression through clothing isn't necessary.

Sure uniforms are unnecessary. And?

First sentence: So what, that's unnecessary
Second sentence: So what if something's unnecessary you need more than that.

School uniforms are an unneeded restriction on students that probably don't accomplish much good anyway. Why shouldn't they be done away with?

Please, can you try to actually pay attention to what you're answering? Notice how I didn't say that 'unnecessary' meant 'unacceptable' so trying that stupid first sentence, second sentence thing just makes you look bad. Pointing out that I said something wasn't necessary isn't a good point when the reason I questioned the importance of it being unnecessary when you're trying to defend the position something is unacceptable.

And please stuff your strawman somewhere cozy, I didn't say they shouldn't be done away with. I think they should. However unlike you I am not prone to kneejerk reactions and think Strazdas is being silly about the extent he seems to be against them.

I said No and No...however, I'm reconsidering my answer.

It would have resolved many an issue of bullying due to attire/interests/etc. and, frankly, I would have been much better dressed. Also, I would know how to tie a tie.

...Also, skirts. :D

Rossco64:
their is still room for individuality.

Depends where you attended school. This certainly wasn't the case for my last high school which, despite being a public school, had (and still has) an incredibly strict uniform policy. The uniform was long, grey formal pants with a white, long sleeve shirt and tie. The tie had to be done up all te way to your neck, the shirt had to be tucked in and the pants had to be of a certain material (which I forget, but it was particularly uncomfortable). Realise that I live in a pretty hot part of coastal Australia - this uniform was hell in the 40*C + Summer Daus but that wasn't actually the worst part. The jumper was useless, it would not keep you warm and in the rain in smelled horrible. The wind would blow right through it just in case it wasn't bad enough. That uniform has to be the worst thing I've every worn.

But hey, we can make it worse! All of it had to be bought from the school or it's suppliers, or you'd be constantly harrased about it. The very expensive suppliers. For this horrid uniform (that came apart quite easily, so replacements were pretty frequent) you had to pay an arm and a leg at a *public* school. The uniform policy also meant no dyed hair, no jewlery of any kind and severe punishments for breaking the uniform. We were either too hot or too cold, but always uncomfortable and low on money. Yay.

Rossco64:
It's a lot harder for someone to be bullied for the clothes they wear when everyone is wearing the same thing

...have you ever been to a school without uniform? Even a casual day. The idea that people get bullied over their clothes is bullshit.

EDIT: Actually, it isn't total bullshit. I remember from one of my schools with a uniform a kid getting picked on by staff and students because he was from a background without enough money to replace his ragged uniform. Go figure.

Father Time:

Dijkstra:

Strazdas:
It makes me sad to live on a planet where majority of youth think school uniforms are acceptable....

Uh... and why are they so terribly unacceptable?

Because they're totally unnecessary and restrict expression amongst other things.

Or they're just clothes. Clothes that identify kids as being of the same institution and also stop them taking the piss by coming in with low jeans showing of g-strings or t-shirts that might say "fuck the police" or "I love smoking dope" on them. Even though I do love smoking dope I can imagine it would be a pain in the ass for teachers to have to nitpick time and time again for every occasion something might be out of line and having to laboriously and tediously redefine the rules. Easier just to set one set of clothing. In the outside world they can wear whatever the hell they want.

And clothes are a form of expression? REALLY? I wear clothes to cover my schlong and stay warm. If they look good, bonus but I dont really go, "Behold my outfit! It is a window to my very soul! Gaze long and I shall tell thee where the sale is". I'm a Media & Communication grad btw and aware of subcultures and the use of clothing as one of the forms of identification within social spheres but is that not of itself a uniform? A school uniform simply states, "No, you're all one group, not lots of mini ones. With one purpose, to learn"...which is the point.

And yes keeping your uniform in presentable form builds the idea of having respect for your own appearance.

Images:

Father Time:

Dijkstra:

Uh... and why are they so terribly unacceptable?

Because they're totally unnecessary and restrict expression amongst other things.

Or they're just clothes. Clothes that identify kids as being of the same institution and also stop them taking the piss by coming in with low jeans showing of g-strings or t-shirts that might say "fuck the police" or "I love smoking dope" on them. Even though I do love smoking dope I can imagine it would be a pain in the ass for teachers to have to nitpick time and time again for every occasion something might be out of line and having to laboriously and tediously redefine the rules.

It's really not that hard to put in a dress code. Lots of schools do it with no problems.

Images:

And clothes are a form of expression? REALLY?

Clothes can have writing on them. Writing is a form of expression.

Images:

I wear clothes to cover my schlong and stay warm. If they look good, bonus but I dont really go, "Behold my outfit! It is a window to my very soul! Gaze long and I shall tell thee where the sale is". I'm a Media & Communication grad btw and aware of subcultures and the use of clothing as one of the forms of identification within social spheres but is that not of itself a uniform?

No.

Images:

A school uniform simply states, "No, you're all one group, not lots of mini ones. With one purpose, to learn"

They suppress individuality is a point in it's favor now?

Images:

And yes keeping your uniform in presentable form builds the idea of having respect for your own appearance.

...Remember when they forced you to write cursive in third grade? Did you ever use it since then for anything other than your signature? Probably not. Just because people will do something when they're required to do it doesn't mean they'll continue doing it when they don't have to.

Cry Wolf:

Rossco64:
their is still room for individuality.

Depends where you attended school. This certainly wasn't the case for my last high school which, despite being a public school, had (and still has) an incredibly strict uniform policy. The uniform was long, grey formal pants with a white, long sleeve shirt and tie. The tie had to be done up all te way to your neck, the shirt had to be tucked in and the pants had to be of a certain material (which I forget, but it was particularly uncomfortable). Realise that I live in a pretty hot part of coastal Australia - this uniform was hell in the 40*C + Summer Daus but that wasn't actually the worst part. The jumper was useless, it would not keep you warm and in the rain in smelled horrible. The wind would blow right through it just in case it wasn't bad enough. That uniform has to be the worst thing I've every worn.

But hey, we can make it worse! All of it had to be bought from the school or it's suppliers, or you'd be constantly harrased about it. The very expensive suppliers. For this horrid uniform (that came apart quite easily, so replacements were pretty frequent) you had to pay an arm and a leg at a *public* school. The uniform policy also meant no dyed hair, no jewlery of any kind and severe punishments for breaking the uniform. We were either too hot or too cold, but always uncomfortable and low on money. Yay.

But those really aren't problems caused by uniforms per say, but rather problem caused by asinine rules regarding uniform. If your school had been less strict and the uniforms were affordable do you think your opinion would be the same?

Rossco64:
It's a lot harder for someone to be bullied for the clothes they wear when everyone is wearing the same thing

...have you ever been to a school without uniform? Even a casual day. The idea that people get bullied over their clothes is bullshit.

But it isn't though. Yes many people, such as yourself, have posted that they never experienced or witnessed clothes related bullying, but just as many people have posted that they have experienced or witnessed it which means it does happen. Just because you never experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Hell I never experienced it (aside from maybe a bit of "boyish" banter on non uniform days) but I know it happens because kids are ass-holes. All of them, even the nice ones. Most of them don't realise it, they're not emotionally mature enough, and if they did they'd probably feel bad, but they're still ass-holes. Uniforms just get rid of one less thing for them to be ass-hoes about.

But seriously though, I really do feel for you having to put up with those kind of rules and expenses. We used to get the whole "wear the uniform like this" shtick all the time, although everyone just seemed to ignore it. I heard they got stricter for a while after I left but the heads seemed to have given up judging by what my sister wears.
Regarding the expenses, does Australia not have laws stating mandatory school uniforms must be made affordable within public schools? We got those here (well in Scotland at least, not sure about the rest of the UK).

I do believe school uniforms, if done correctly, can make a student such jailbait.
...

But that's besides the point! School uniforms, if done correctly, can be quite helpful in certain schools. Take vocational schools for examples, uniforms are usually a must there for safety reasons within the shops. Can also deter distraction based on looks (normally...), and kids don't have to worry how they'll look while playing dress-up.

I went to a Private School (an Assembly of God fellowship - so you can imagine the uniform rules and guidelines) for eight years and we wore uniforms. We were told because they put us all on equal footing.

Since my parents were paying for not only me, but my sister to attend this school as well, money was tight. We had to go to the second-hand shop (that the school allowed) for our uniforms. They always seemed to be ill-fitting, but they weren't terrible clothes. We also couldn't really afford buying the clothes over and over again when I wore through the knees, so my Mother patched them - or tried her best to. The kids were cruel a lot of the time, even though we were supposed to be on equal footing. If they tired of picking on my clothes, they just chose other things.

I don't think uniforms are a bad or terrible idea. If a child or group of children want to be cruel, they'll find something. They always do. Clothes, hair, the way your nose sits on your face, the way your name sounds, anything. So if a school would like their students to wear uniforms, I don't think it's unfair or unacceptable and the idea behind it makes sense (at least to me), but I would have preferred to just be able to wear jeans and t-shirts.

Honestly I wish my school had a uniform... It kinda makes me sick to see all these wannabe 'gangstas' and girls wearing semi transparent shirts. For some reason it just really urks me when I see someone with their belt line about 20cm above the floor.

I chose others (Didn't go to school) and I'm totally against it, I find it senseless. You should be confortable to sit and study all morning 5 times per week.

I answered "no" but it's a bit more complicated then that.
For references sake: I'm fucking huge but it's not fat or muscle, I'm just a tall wide person (well I am fat but that's a more recent thing that I'm gonna take care of) this makes buying clothes hard cos most "large" clothes (XXL and above) are made for fat people and don't fit me well.

In early highschool we had 'lax' uniforms.
They basically just went: something in the school colours (blue, white, grey) and nothing silly for a school environment (enclosed shoes, sleeved shirts, pants covering your crotch, etc) and this was pretty good.

Then they introduced actual UNIFORMS... you had to buy these from the school and a full uniform ran you about $150 for a shirt and pants (my current clothing was about $30 for the same).
Mine had to be custom made pushing the price up closer to $200 and it was made from %100 polyester, which itched and clung to you during summer.
That uniform was BURNT when I left school.

Then I went to Tafe (kinda like college for those outside Aus), no uniform, better environment as a whole.

Father Time:
And some schools have dress codes requiring you to wear them a certain way. My old middle school demanded people tuck their shirts in and we didn't even have a uniform.

So do most schools. You'll find that kids won't listen to that part of the rules though, and will leave it untucked unless a teacher tells them to tuck it in, in which case they'll tuck the front in and untuck it around the corner. Again, a way of expressing yourself with the school uniform; you are showing who you are through your actions, you don't need to wear specific clothes to do that.

And now we're moving the goalposts.

I'm merely resetting them to what they originally were. This discussion was never "I can express myself more with custom clothes than with a school uniform", it was "You don't need custom clothes to express yourself". I have simply provided examples of other, far more effective, ways of expressing yourself that aren't your clothes, thus proving my point that you don't need to wear your own set of clothes to express yourself.

If it's a restrictive rule that the schools don't need then as a general rule of thumb it's better to not have it.

Restrictive rules that society doesn't need;
Legal Drinking Age
Age at which you can start learning to Drive
Different pricing's for different ages at cinemas and such
Age restrictions on movies and videogames
ect.
However, you will find that a great number of people think that the positives of these restrictions outweigh the negatives, and it is the same for school uniforms. You don't NEED any of these rules, but there are advantages to having them.
Simply because something isn't needed doesn't mean its better not to have it. Its only better not to have if the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.

You admitted that there are ways to express yourself with clothing that can't be done with school uniforms so they limit expression. Next you counter with 'students don't need it' which is a weak excuse because schools don't need the uniforms.

I also emphasised that clothing is the least important part of expressing yourself, and you don't need to be able to wear your own clothing to do so, thus matching the original quote's stance of "If you do need clothes to express your personality, you don't have one". If you are that dependent on wearing certain clothes to be able to express yourself, I'd be worrying about something very different to whether or not you can wear those clothes.
I also counter with "Students don't need it" as it shows how absolutely weak your own "School's don't need it" complaint is. As said, we could go on all day listing things that aren't needed, in the end it doesn't matter whether something is needed or not. What does matter is whether the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, and for many schools they do.

Meh, I had to wear them all through high school but I'm kind of indifferent about them. Not really big enough of a deal for me to like or hate them.
Still not fun in winter though...

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