Westboro Baptist Church plans to protest funeral of 9 year old girl slain in Arizona shotings.

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Let's say I was hypothetically this kid's father, or a good friend of one of the soldiers that dies, and then these cunts showed up at the funeral. I would probably come loose and beat the fuck out of them.

I'm all for freedom of speech, but if you talk shit then you should be prepared for some de facto consequences. I personally find it surprising and maybe even a little bit disappointing that nobody from the WBC has been assaulted yet

Leave it to the WBC to make Hells Angels look like heros. Man, these guys would have loved Nazi Germany. Such intolerance.

Guitarmasterx7:
Let's say I was hypothetically this kid's father, or a good friend of one of the soldiers that dies, and then these cunts showed up at the funeral. I would probably come loose and beat the fuck out of them.

I'm all for freedom of speech, but if you talk shit then you should be prepared for some de facto consequences. I personally find it surprising and maybe even a little bit disappointing that nobody from the WBC has been assaulted yet

Theres one reason for that, police show up everywhere they do their protests, for obvious reasons.

I vote for the people in the town where this tragic shooting to set up a "fake" funeral where the WBC are going to protest, then hide a bomb inside the coffin (Or what it's called) and blow them to pieces.

Ontopic: This is a tragic event, and then the WBC comes to ruin mourning people's last goodbye to the persons tragically taken away from them. I feel that I'm getting angry.

OH MY GOD WHY? these nutbars need to go away

Housebroken Lunatic:

brumley53:

Explain this.

YOU are a hypocrite you are saying everyone who believes in a higher power is stupid and that they all force people to be like them, and yet every single one of your arguments is backed by your idea that everyone should be athiest. Religion is only bad when idiots control it, and militant athiesm is as dumb as any forceful religion and is just too wussy to do anything about it but post poorly constructed arguments of why everyone should believe in one thing. There is also no proof that a god or gods dont exist and no proof that they do and people have the right to choose whatever they want.

Im not an atheist, im a skeptical agnostic.

That said, I still don't see any reason why religion should be allowed to exist anymore. You can't deny that it leads to unquestioned and unopposed extremism, terrorism, "holy wars" and other crap that history is littered with all thanks to religion.

It doesn't matter how many "militant leaders" you blame, because these "militant leaders" all somehow manage to come to power through religion. Religion let's extremist militant gain influence a lot more easy than secular politics ever has, and even in the secular political arena the policitians are constantly getting questioned instead of being followed because "The Lord!" says that one should follow them.

Also, I don't have anything against people believing in higher powers. I do have something against those who have to build organizations around it. Organization promotes action, and I'd rather not see the actions of rogue religious elements be allowed to work in a society that is supposedly to be governed through secular means.

That's why I want to see churches, mosques and synagogues destroyed, holy books burned and a declaration from each and every government saying that the days of organized religion are over and people caught congregating for evidently religious purposes will be charged with a criminal offense.

It serves no purpose and has since long forfeited it's right to exist.

Religion doesn't factor into wars as much as you are giving it credit for. People in positions of power are going to end up flexing their military muscles for any reason they can. Atheist heads of state are just as bad as religious ones.
Do you want to know four famous atheist leaders from the 20th century?
Hitler
Stalin
Pol Pot
Mao Zedong
Furthermore, while several attrocities have been committed in the name of religion, some of the greatest works of art, science and philosophy can trace their origins directly or indirectly to religion. Art is pretty obvious, paintings by Da Vinci (the Last Supper), Michelangelo (the Sistine Chapel) or Carravaggio, music from Handel to Wagner. Some of the most beautiful buildings in the world are cathedrals and mosques.

Also, sorry to call Godwin's law but:
"That's why I want to see churches, mosques and synagogues destroyed, holy books burned and a declaration from each and every government saying that the days of organized religion are over and people caught congregating for evidently religious purposes will be charged with a criminal offense."
This sounds a lot like fascism to me. Whether you agree with religion or not, people have the unalienable right to believe in it. Provided their actions don't cause harm to other people, people should have the rights to do whatever they want with themselves. I genuinely don't understand how any reasonable person could see otherwise.
Also, consider the scale of some of these things. Out of over 160 million American Christians, the WestBoro Baptist Church is... 71 people. There are 1.5 BILLION Muslims in the world. If even 0.1% of them were militant, they would have an army that equal to that of the USA. It seems however that there are barely enough militant muslims to carry out a single terrorist attack in the US since 9/11.
So are you really going to encur on the rights of billions of people just because there are a statistically negligable number of dicks in it?

I'm an agnostic by the way. I believe that if there is a God, he occupies a realm that is fundamentally unknowable to us.

Also, I would suggest reading this. It's lot better thought out than my little forum post....
http://www.cracked.com/article_15663_10-things-christians-atheists-can-and-must-agree-on.html

Corkydog:
Really? At this point these guys are worse trolls than Anonymous...hey now, we could sic Anonymous on those pricks...

But really, the church needs to excommunicate those mother****ers. Only way to get them to shut up.

I'm surprised Anonymous haven't already started on them, to be honest. After all, Scientology are simply a stupid cult, and although not exactly a good group, they're not really worth bothering about, in my opinion. Whereas the WBC are a bunch of evil, hate-mongering, retarded, bigoted bastards, and need to be taken down and dismantled/shown that their views are intolerable, especially in this day and age. Hell, I'm in the UK so I couldn't do this even if I wanted to, but if I lived in the USA and was in a position of power, then I would do everything I could to get them arrested or something. I mean, surely they're breaking various laws on inciting hatred, right? Those laws are used against extremists who are trying to stir up racial and terrorist sympathies, so why not use them against the WBC?

Normally, I would never call for someone's death (save those who really deserve to die, like serial killers and whatnot). But the day Fred Phelps dies will be a glourious one, I really do mean that. And hopefully, when that happens (ideally as soon as possible), the rest of his 'congregation' will soon follow...

Sometimes, I really wonder what they're getting out of this.
I doubt they're convincing many people to join them. I doubt they can make money through advertisements. Even if they're purely religiously motivated, shouldn't they be able to see that this way of "getting their message out" doesn't help their cause in the slightest?
Hateful, as always.

the Dept of Science:
Hitler

Hitler was a Roman-Catholic and cooperated with the Catholic Church for quite some time of his regime. That said, whether he personally was Atheist or not isn't even relevant, he used Catholicism to influence the primarily Catholic German populace and the Church was happy to take part, at least in the beginning.

Hopefully everyone ignores WBC. Even the media. They probably won't but thats the best people can do. People should be for the funeral not because some rednecks. WBC should be closed down for being a hate group. They have no right to be at that funeral. Hopefully there will be a court order forcing them to stay away. With police because they will still try. Thats really all there is to say.

They are setting back society and religion.

Konaerix:
Are these the guys who were protesting comic books a few months back?

yup same ones these are also the douches that picket on funerals of fallen soldiers,non-christians and homosexuals they call themselfs a church but are more of a hate group (whilst the bible is about caring about people they are about hating every one)

*eye twitches* That's it. I'm going to Texas to protest these assholes. Anyone want to come with?

(Yes, i know it's better to ignore them, but I really don't have the patience for that sort of thing...)

Fun Fact!:

This walking shitstain, Shirly Phelps-Roper, actually has an illigetimate son named Sam, which she gets all stumped about whenever someone challenges her on it. If anything needs to be spreead about these people, its this hypocrisy.

Guitarmasterx7:
Let's say I was hypothetically this kid's father, or a good friend of one of the soldiers that dies, and then these cunts showed up at the funeral. I would probably come loose and beat the fuck out of them.

I'm all for freedom of speech, but if you talk shit then you should be prepared for some de facto consequences. I personally find it surprising and maybe even a little bit disappointing that nobody from the WBC has been assaulted yet

They havent been SERIOUSLY assaulted, but worry not! They have had their houses bombed with IED's, had their property stolen and vandalised, and their entire sickening cast is constantly demonized in their town. They arent having a fun time I can assure you, but I do agree that we need footage of them having their faces punched in to a degree where they need to be hospitalized.

They need to be beaten to near death, and have their children and young women taken away to be re-educated.

Guitarmasterx7:
Let's say I was hypothetically this kid's father, or a good friend of one of the soldiers that dies, and then these cunts showed up at the funeral. I would probably come loose and beat the fuck out of them.

I'm all for freedom of speech, but if you talk shit then you should be prepared for some de facto consequences. I personally find it surprising and maybe even a little bit disappointing that nobody from the WBC has been assaulted yet

Unfortunetly, there are "laws" against that sort of thing, meaning you ca't just assault people, no matter how big a bunch of douchebags they are. Which is a shame, since I'd love to tear into these guys with a baseball bat. Or a paintball gun.

Why couldn't that looney guy last week have killed them instead? The world would have been a better place.

Tdc2182:
Basically this.

As many of you are aware, on Saturday there was a shooting in Tucson, AZ, which 6 people were killed, 1 of them being my Parent's close friend (Mom and Dad were married at Cheif Justice John Rolls house, never seen a fully grown man break down into tears like that) and another one of my Dad's friends was critically wounded in said shooting's (happened about 10 minutes away from my house.)

More tragically, a girl who was merely 9 years old, was also killed in said shootings. Needless to say, completely sickening.

And as if to add insult to injury, Notorious WBC has decided protest the funerals.

As I really want to get the mere nauseating thought of this pure fucking despicable situaton, article is below.

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/westboro_bapstis_church_to_pro.php

Edit: I encourage anyone who lives in the Tucson area to try to pitch in whatever help you can get. Apparently some student organizations in the U of A are helping with stopping the these dumb hicks.

There was a biker gang a while back that would follow the WBC around to their protests at soldiers' funerals, and would create a human shield around the ceremony so the grievers didn't have to put up with the WBC's crap.

http://www.patriotguard.org/

I'd send them an email. I'm on the other side of the country, otherwise I'd show up and try to support you guys.

Corkydog:
Any suggestions on how to arrest these guys?

Send them to Britain, we've got a law in place that deals with people who abuse free speech like these morons. You're perfectly free over here to say what you like, but if you're doing it specifically to incite conflict then you're crossing the line, and if nothing else we can still get them with an Anti Social Behaviour Order.

k-ossuburb:
Send them to Britain, we've got a law in place that deals with people who abuse free speech like these morons. You're perfectly free over here to say what you like, but if you're doing it specifically to incite conflict then you're crossing the line, and if nothing else we can still get them with an Anti Social Behaviour Order.

Isn't Phelps already banned from even entering the UK in the first place?

Skeleon:

k-ossuburb:
Send them to Britain, we've got a law in place that deals with people who abuse free speech like these morons. You're perfectly free over here to say what you like, but if you're doing it specifically to incite conflict then you're crossing the line, and if nothing else we can still get them with an Anti Social Behaviour Order.

Isn't Phelps already banned from even entering the UK in the first place?

Both from the UK and Canada (meaning that our mourning can go on knowing that the saddest moment in their life won't become even worse because those guys show up).
Frankly, I have a suspicion that if it weren't for the fact that they are US citizens, they would be banned from the US as well

This is just sad... But it no longer surprises me, these people will do anything to get the media's attention spew their bigotry. I just hope someone stops them from protesting in the girl's funeral.

Corkydog:
Really? At this point these guys are worse trolls than Anonymous...hey now, we could sic Anonymous on those pricks...

But really, the church needs to excommunicate those mother****ers. Only way to get them to shut up.

That's not possible, since (at least according to wiki) no Christian group recognizes them.
Also, that wouldn't stop these fanatics, especially since they believe that all other churches are devil's tool.

the Dept of Science:

Housebroken Lunatic:

brumley53:

Explain this.

YOU are a hypocrite you are saying everyone who believes in a higher power is stupid and that they all force people to be like them, and yet every single one of your arguments is backed by your idea that everyone should be athiest. Religion is only bad when idiots control it, and militant athiesm is as dumb as any forceful religion and is just too wussy to do anything about it but post poorly constructed arguments of why everyone should believe in one thing. There is also no proof that a god or gods dont exist and no proof that they do and people have the right to choose whatever they want.

Im not an atheist, im a skeptical agnostic.

That said, I still don't see any reason why religion should be allowed to exist anymore. You can't deny that it leads to unquestioned and unopposed extremism, terrorism, "holy wars" and other crap that history is littered with all thanks to religion.

It doesn't matter how many "militant leaders" you blame, because these "militant leaders" all somehow manage to come to power through religion. Religion let's extremist militant gain influence a lot more easy than secular politics ever has, and even in the secular political arena the policitians are constantly getting questioned instead of being followed because "The Lord!" says that one should follow them.

Also, I don't have anything against people believing in higher powers. I do have something against those who have to build organizations around it. Organization promotes action, and I'd rather not see the actions of rogue religious elements be allowed to work in a society that is supposedly to be governed through secular means.

That's why I want to see churches, mosques and synagogues destroyed, holy books burned and a declaration from each and every government saying that the days of organized religion are over and people caught congregating for evidently religious purposes will be charged with a criminal offense.

It serves no purpose and has since long forfeited it's right to exist.

Religion doesn't factor into wars as much as you are giving it credit for. People in positions of power are going to end up flexing their military muscles for any reason they can. Atheist heads of state are just as bad as religious ones.
Do you want to know four famous atheist leaders from the 20th century?
Hitler
Stalin
Pol Pot
Mao Zedong
Furthermore, while several attrocities have been committed in the name of religion, some of the greatest works of art, science and philosophy can trace their origins directly or indirectly to religion. Art is pretty obvious, paintings by Da Vinci (the Last Supper), Michelangelo (the Sistine Chapel) or Carravaggio, music from Handel to Wagner. Some of the most beautiful buildings in the world are cathedrals and mosques.

Also, sorry to call Godwin's law but:
"That's why I want to see churches, mosques and synagogues destroyed, holy books burned and a declaration from each and every government saying that the days of organized religion are over and people caught congregating for evidently religious purposes will be charged with a criminal offense."
This sounds a lot like fascism to me. Whether you agree with religion or not, people have the unalienable right to believe in it. Provided their actions don't cause harm to other people, people should have the rights to do whatever they want with themselves. I genuinely don't understand how any reasonable person could see otherwise.
Also, consider the scale of some of these things. Out of over 160 million American Christians, the WestBoro Baptist Church is... 71 people. There are 1.5 BILLION Muslims in the world. If even 0.1% of them were militant, they would have an army that equal to that of the USA. It seems however that there are barely enough militant muslims to carry out a single terrorist attack in the US since 9/11.
So are you really going to encur on the rights of billions of people just because there are a statistically negligable number of dicks in it?

I'm an agnostic by the way. I believe that if there is a God, he occupies a realm that is fundamentally unknowable to us.

Also, I would suggest reading this. It's lot better thought out than my little forum post....
http://www.cracked.com/article_15663_10-things-christians-atheists-can-and-must-agree-on.html

Moreover, most religious wars were committed for reasons that had nothing to do with religion (although that does not mean it wasn't religious fanaticism that motivated the masses).

Skeleon:

k-ossuburb:
Send them to Britain, we've got a law in place that deals with people who abuse free speech like these morons. You're perfectly free over here to say what you like, but if you're doing it specifically to incite conflict then you're crossing the line, and if nothing else we can still get them with an Anti Social Behaviour Order.

Isn't Phelps already banned from even entering the UK in the first place?

I don't know, is he? If so, that's pretty damn awesome.

he is as is his daughter

i suspect the rest would be "found to be on the list" if they tried to enter as well

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_individuals_banned_from_entering_the_United_Kingdom

Stay classy, WBC.

In all seriousness, they're playing with fire. Protesting the death of servicemen was toeing the line, but this was someone's little girl. They shouldn't be all too surprised if some unstable person ceases to respect their first amendment rights. I wouldn't condone such violence, but they really are inviting it upon themselves. I feel bad for the kids they bring with them. At this point, it's probably child endangerment.

the Dept of Science:

Religion doesn't factor into wars as much as you are giving it credit for. People in positions of power are going to end up flexing their military muscles for any reason they can. Atheist heads of state are just as bad as religious ones.
Do you want to know four famous atheist leaders from the 20th century?
Hitler
Stalin
Pol Pot
Mao Zedong

Funny you should mention that. The most common counter"argument" to my claims basically bottles down to "there's nothing wrong with religion, only the people who are absuing it", but pretty much eveyone is extremely reluctant to say the same thing about political ideologies like the ones that these secular leaders became prominent members of.

Somehow, making uninformed blanket statements about communist or nationalsocialist ideals is considered as a-okay, because the popular opinion is that these ideologies are all inherently flawed somehow.("Communism is bad. Just look at Stalin!").

But when someone reach the same logical conclusion about religion, then suddenly it's automatically the wrong thing to do. Because religion is some kind of omni-innocent phenomenon, but political ideologies can always be blamed for all the crap going on in the world.

So to everyone criticizing my views of religion, ask yourselves, are you completely sure that you don't practice the same thing in regards to certain political ideologies that you dislike for some reason?

the Dept of Science:

Furthermore, while several attrocities have been committed in the name of religion, some of the greatest works of art, science and philosophy can trace their origins directly or indirectly to religion. Art is pretty obvious, paintings by Da Vinci (the Last Supper), Michelangelo (the Sistine Chapel) or Carravaggio, music from Handel to Wagner. Some of the most beautiful buildings in the world are cathedrals and mosques.

Art is unimportant. It's just a form of entertainment. Civilization won't exactly come crashing down just because a few paintings get burned in a fire. Also religious philosophy is flawed by default since every road always leads back to a fantasy creature that doesn't exist.

As to the science, it's unimportant as well. Not the discoveries mind you but the fact that religions has worked towards the suppression of scientific findings a lot more than it actually produced anything useful. Don't forget the dark ages.

the Dept of Science:

Also, sorry to call Godwin's law but:
"That's why I want to see churches, mosques and synagogues destroyed, holy books burned and a declaration from each and every government saying that the days of organized religion are over and people caught congregating for evidently religious purposes will be charged with a criminal offense."
This sounds a lot like fascism to me. Whether you agree with religion or not, people have the unalienable right to believe in it.

Fascist methods are quite useful. It gets shit done.

Also, im not for the infringement of someones beliefs since these occur in a persons head anyway and can't exactly be extracted. What people DON'T have an "unalienable right" to however is organization (there are plenty of instances where even supposedly "free democracies" have limited certain groups from congregating and getting organized in the interest of the common good). I want to see organized religion destroyed and it's influence on society at large cut out.

As Andrew Ryan humourously put it in Bioshock 2: They are perfectly welcome to worship whatever tribal fetisch they want in the privacy of their own home. :)

the Dept of Science:

Provided their actions don't cause harm to other people, people should have the rights to do whatever they want with themselves.

Well looking back at history it shows that religion ALWAYS ultimately lead to harm, extremism and terror in one way or another.

An analogy would be to consider a person speeding in a car. Speeding in itself doesn't hurt anyone else, but should society really trust that some speedfreak is perfectly able to drive as fast as he or she wishes but still remain in complete control as to make sure that they never harm anyone else?

I don't trust the speedfreaks, so why should I trust religious people? They're playing the same risky game after all.

the Dept of Science:

I genuinely don't understand how any reasonable person could see otherwise.

Well I genuinely don't understand how any reasonable person still thinks it would be okay to let fanatics worshipping a non-existent fantasy creature to make decisions that affects the entire society.

the Dept of Science:

Also, consider the scale of some of these things. Out of over 160 million American Christians, the WestBoro Baptist Church is... 71 people. There are 1.5 BILLION Muslims in the world. If even 0.1% of them were militant, they would have an army that equal to that of the USA. It seems however that there are barely enough militant muslims to carry out a single terrorist attack in the US since 9/11.
So are you really going to encur on the rights of billions of people just because there are a statistically negligable number of dicks in it?

Yes I am. The results are always the same. If we can't trust people to run communism without turning into an oppressive dictatorship, then there's no reason to trust religious people to keep themselves from acts of extremism, terror and violence in the name of their favourite flying spaghetti monster.

Also, religion has yet to present a viable defense of it's existence. It simply doesn't have any tangible merits at all.

the Dept of Science:

I'm an agnostic by the way. I believe that if there is a God, he occupies a realm that is fundamentally unknowable to us.

That's somewhat similar to my own beliefs. I find atheism to be unscientific since a lot of atheists claim that it is impossible for godlike beings to exist. I have instead chosen to accept that it is within the realm of possibility that certain entities might exist that would seem godlike to us, since we can only percieve three dimensions and no more than that, as well as the fact that the universe is a big place etc. etc.

That asswipe that jews, christians and muslims worship though is a pure work of fiction. He's reeks too much of human chauvinism and improbability to be real.

Haven't read all 8 pages, looking at the last page I'm disappointed to see this has turned into yet another religious bashing thread.

The WBC are a bunch of fruitloops. They would be fruitloops without religion too.

It's not a religion bashing thread yet, just one guy claiming that all religion should be banned because art is unimportant, and is once more misinformed about the dark ages.

AnubisAuman:

Moreover, most religious wars were committed for reasons that had nothing to do with religion (although that does not mean it wasn't religious fanaticism that motivated the masses).

Which is the primary problem with religion. Some lone nutjobs with ambitions of genocide and holy wars can't do much on their own. They need the masses to support them.

Religion just gives them one of the easiest methods of subverting the masses needed. Which is why it must go, and also the reason why the secular system of politics is infinitely better than religion. Children are being taught in pretty much every democratic society to QEUSTION the policies of politicians as well as keeping themselves informed of the ideals and opinions of different political parties.

Never is this promoted in religion. Religious leaders are to be revered and obeyed as much as possible if you want to be a good and loyal subject who gets to go to heaven when you die.

Obviously it's a breeding ground for fanaticism and extremism...

Corkydog:
Really? At this point these guys are worse trolls than Anonymous...hey now, we could sic Anonymous on those pricks...

But really, the church needs to excommunicate those mother****ers. Only way to get them to shut up.

They're basically their own church. Fred Phelps is the boss. He ain't gonna excommunicate himself.

And honestly, anyone who really uses the WBC as an excuse to bash religion (and I have NO use for religion) is doing the same thing as bashing Matt LeBlanc for the existence of the sitcom.

We get it. The WBC is a worthless pustule on the anus of humanity. That's no reason to indict all of religion. There's other reasons to do that.

Naheal:

omicron1:
Just popping in here to say, the WBC are nothing like the remainder of sane America - or the remainder of Christendom - or the remainder of the Baptist denomination. I am just as offended by this (and other elements of the WBC's actions) as you are.

Don't even fucking compare those idiots to Christianity. They are not Christian, despite what they claim.

Who made you the authourity on whats christian and whats not?

EldritchCarrot:

Naheal:

omicron1:
Just popping in here to say, the WBC are nothing like the remainder of sane America - or the remainder of Christendom - or the remainder of the Baptist denomination. I am just as offended by this (and other elements of the WBC's actions) as you are.

Don't even fucking compare those idiots to Christianity. They are not Christian, despite what they claim.

Who made you the authourity on whats christian and whats not?

Settle down there, turbo. The WBC is as much representative of mainstream U.S. Christianity as Uwe Boll is representative of Oscar-winning directors.

That is, to say, not at fucking all. Unclench.

Housebroken Lunatic:
religious-bashing snip

Please, out of respect for the little girl, the 5 others who lost their lives, and their families, just stop now.

Eternal_Lament:

Skeleon:

k-ossuburb:
Send them to Britain, we've got a law in place that deals with people who abuse free speech like these morons. You're perfectly free over here to say what you like, but if you're doing it specifically to incite conflict then you're crossing the line, and if nothing else we can still get them with an Anti Social Behaviour Order.

Isn't Phelps already banned from even entering the UK in the first place?

Both from the UK and Canada (meaning that our mourning can go on knowing that the saddest moment in their life won't become even worse because those guys show up).
Frankly, I have a suspicion that if it weren't for the fact that they are US citizens, they would be banned from the US as well

While I personally hold the First Amendment as sacrosanct, I do sometimes envy those in countries that don't have to deal with scumbags like Phelps legally.

They are a cult not a religion.

Are they having a contest for "most hated group of people" and they're trying to outdo the nazis or something?
What's next? Eating babies?

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