Circumcision in infancy

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Hello all.

It's been a good while since the topic of circumcision (male and/or female) has been discussed in R&P.

As a man who was recently circumcised (fewer than 12 hours ago), the topic's naturally been weighing on my mind a little, and I'm interested to find out where your thoughts and opinions lie with male circumcision in infancy. Were any of you circumcised at birth? Do you have any thought with regard to your parent(s) or doctor's decision?

I'm aware that it's likely to be rather a divisive topic, but let's do ourselves all a favour and try to keep it this civil. If you want to talk about female circumcision as well, fair enough, but I'd be rather surprised if anybody came out as being in favour of it.

It is really quite difficult to be civilized on a topic that regards such a cruel and barbaric practice. Really, there is nothing more to it. It is the pointless infliction of pain on those who can in no way whatsoever defend themselves or refuse.

Now, I know some people will bring up the good old "But the babies don't remember it!", but I'd like to remind those people that it's basically the date-rapist's prerogative. If the victim can't remember it, there's no harm done, eh? And so what if a dentist sexually abused a sedated patient? The patient won't remember it, so it's fine!

Circumcision of infants is nothing short of legalized torture.

Well, female circumcision is quite a good measure in preventing women from having premarital sex, preserving virginity and preventing teenage pregnancies.

Just a pity that those women will probably never enjoy sex after being circumcised.

By the way, it is not an Islamic practice! :D But if you're interested I have no problems with explaining the ties between Female Genital Mutilation and Islam.

As far as I know, callus will form on your glans due to being circumcised. [1]

How old are you? Why are you circumcised? Religious or medical reasons? How does it feel?

I have no problems with people of 16 year old or older deciding to get circumcised. But I do have problems with people circumcising their children for religious instead of medical reasons.

[1] Never used those words in English before, hope you understand what I mean

hardlymotivated:
Hello all.

It's been a good while since the topic of circumcision (male and/or female) has been discussed in R&P.

As a man who was recently circumcised (fewer than 12 hours ago), the topic's naturally been weighing on my mind a little, and I'm interested to find out where your thoughts and opinions lie with male circumcision in infancy. Were any of you circumcised at birth? Do you have any thought with regard to your parent(s) or doctor's decision?

I'm aware that it's likely to be rather a divisive topic, but let's do ourselves all a favour and try to keep it this civil. If you want to talk about female circumcision as well, fair enough, but I'd be rather surprised if anybody came out as being in favour of it.

Yes I was. I was at birth by my 'rents.

For me, I think it was the right choice. I likely would have chosen to do it as an adult, had I not had it done as a child.

But I almost certainly won't have it done to my sons, if I have any.

Anyway, this debate is pretty toxic. So let's hope it stays civil.

Oh, and if you don't mind me asking, how did the procedure go?

circumcision topics oh how wonderful they are, they bring out all of the bias and misinformation in everyone. well im gonna leave this link here before someone claims smegma to cause cancer.

http://www.foreskin.org/smegma.htm

now.

OT: i wouldn't really know were to weigh in on this issue. sure some people have issue with it cause it's parents making the decision for their child, but a baby sure as hell cant make the decision for itself. some people might be annoyed or angry that they were not circumcised when they were born or inversely if they were circumcised when they were born. while it's possible to get circumcised when you are old enough to consent yourself, but you cant reverse a circumcision.

CM156:

hardlymotivated:
Hello all.

It's been a good while since the topic of circumcision (male and/or female) has been discussed in R&P.

As a man who was recently circumcised (fewer than 12 hours ago), the topic's naturally been weighing on my mind a little, and I'm interested to find out where your thoughts and opinions lie with male circumcision in infancy. Were any of you circumcised at birth? Do you have any thought with regard to your parent(s) or doctor's decision?

I'm aware that it's likely to be rather a divisive topic, but let's do ourselves all a favour and try to keep it this civil. If you want to talk about female circumcision as well, fair enough, but I'd be rather surprised if anybody came out as being in favour of it.

Yes I was. I was at birth by my 'rents.

For me, I think it was the right choice. I likely would have chosen to do it as an adult, had I not had it done as a child.

But I almost certainly won't have it done to my sons.

Anyway, this debate is pretty toxic. So let's hope it stays civil.

Oh, and if you don't mind me asking, how did the procedure go?

Hah, yeah, "toxic" is the word for it. On most discussions of it on the internet, it's only so long before somebody begins slinging insults and accusations around with all the zealousness of an Inquisitor General, but hopefully that can be avoided in this topic.

And it went quite well; thank you for asking. It's a little swollen and very tender, and it's going to take a long time to get used to, but hopefully it'll be okay in the long run.

Elcarsh:
It is really quite difficult to be civilized on a topic that regards such a cruel and barbaric practice. Really, there is nothing more to it. It is the pointless infliction of pain on those who can in no way whatsoever defend themselves or refuse.

Now, I know some people will bring up the good old "But the babies don't remember it!", but I'd like to remind those people that it's basically the date-rapist's prerogative. If the victim can't remember it, there's no harm done, eh? And so what if a dentist sexually abused a sedated patient? The patient won't remember it, so it's fine!

Circumcision of infants is nothing short of legalized torture.

I certainly agree with you in terms of the baby's inability to give consent. The issue makes me feel incredibly uncomfortable, and personally I don't think it's right if there's no clear, medical reason for it, but personally I wish I'd had it done when I was an infant (mine was therapeutic) if only because the recovery period is significantly shorter and allegedly less painful, though I'm not well-versed enough to comment on that in too much detail. In any case, thanks for the response.

Danyal:
Well, female circumcision is quite a good measure in preventing women from having premarital sex, preserving virginity and preventing teenage pregnancies.

Just a pity that those women will probably never enjoy sex after being circumcised.

By the way, it is not an Islamic practice! :D But if you're interested I have no problems with explaining the ties between Female Genital Mutilation and Islam.

As far as I know, callus will form on your glans due to being circumcised. [1]

How old are you? Why are you circumcised? Religious or medical reasons? How does it feel?

I have no problems with people of 16 year old or older deciding to get circumcised. But I do have problems with people circumcising their children for religious instead of medical reasons.

Nineteen, and for medical reasons (severe phimosis). Feels alright, though the sensation of any type of physical contact is rather painful.

As with my response to Elcarsh, I'm not keen on the idea of kids being circumcised for purely religious reasons, but as foreskin complications sometimes become apparent later in life, during which the recovery is supposedly more difficult, I can see some validity to the argument that it's a preventative measure. Of course, at the same time, the complications involved with ritual and infant circumcisions could quite easily outweigh any risk of potential complications later in life if they're not apparent on the child. I'm not sure if male infant circumcision is right or wrong yet. It's a topic with which I've struggled for quite some time.

And yeah, you're right, the glans keratinizes over time after circumcision, after which I'll be able to stop walking like John Wayne.

[1] Never used those words in English before, hope you understand what I mean

hardlymotivated:
Nineteen, and for medical reasons (severe phimosis). Feels alright, though the sensation of any type of physical contact is rather painful.

Ah, you've my sympathy. If it's any consolation, my father, a MD, says that generally, it heals up nicely and you should recover fully within a few weeks.

For infants, I class it as genital mutilation.

If you want to be circumcised, choose it yourself at an older age. Do not force it upon babies.

All the arguments for it have been totally destroyed, the only place it seems to occur on a large scale still is the US. In Europe it is NOT common and is seen as barbaric.

Nope, I don't like genital mutilation.

I don't care if you think circumcision reduces the chances of contracting STDs[disputed], it's still not acceptable to touch your infant with a scalpel for non-essential surgery, by my ethical views.

In my opinion, it is really no better than pre-emptively removing the appendix.

Rkiver:
For infants, I class it as genital mutilation.

If you want to be circumcised, choose it yourself at an older age. Do not force it upon babies.

All the arguments for it have been totally destroyed, the only place it seems to occur on a large scale still is the US. In Europe it is NOT common and is seen as barbaric.

From what I gather, it's also still done on a relatively large scale in Canada and Australia, but as with the US, the rates of infant circumcision seem to be at a steady decline.[1]

Huh, it looks like it's also more widely practised in the Western Balkans relative to the rest of Europe. I had no idea.

Elcarsh:
It is really quite difficult to be civilized on a topic that regards such a cruel and barbaric practice. Really, there is nothing more to it. It is the pointless infliction of pain on those who can in no way whatsoever defend themselves or refuse.

Now, I know some people will bring up the good old "But the babies don't remember it!", but I'd like to remind those people that it's basically the date-rapist's prerogative. If the victim can't remember it, there's no harm done, eh? And so what if a dentist sexually abused a sedated patient? The patient won't remember it, so it's fine!

Circumcision of infants is nothing short of legalized torture.

/thread.

What I find hilarious are the people who claim religion makes it okay.

If I was any other religion, and claimed surgery at birth was necessary by command of a fictional character, I would be put into a asylum.

The rest is utter fear mongering with no basis in fact. If the fears were true, Europe would practically be falling apart.

The only reason circumcision is accepted in America is because of religious fear mongering that is over a century old by an Adventist by the name of Dr. Kellog. He wasn't a doctor, he was a liar and a butcher of small children. A lot of his practices were glorified torture and genital mutilation of boys and girls with no pain killers.

EDIT: double post. Sorry. Browser was slow.

Ultratwinkie:

Elcarsh:
It is really quite difficult to be civilized on a topic that regards such a cruel and barbaric practice. Really, there is nothing more to it. It is the pointless infliction of pain on those who can in no way whatsoever defend themselves or refuse.

Now, I know some people will bring up the good old "But the babies don't remember it!", but I'd like to remind those people that it's basically the date-rapist's prerogative. If the victim can't remember it, there's no harm done, eh? And so what if a dentist sexually abused a sedated patient? The patient won't remember it, so it's fine!

Circumcision of infants is nothing short of legalized torture.

/thread.

What I find hilarious are the people who claim religion makes it okay.

If I was any other religion, and claimed surgery at birth was necessary by command of a fictional character, I would be put into a asylum.

The rest is utter fear mongering with no basis in fact. If the fears were true, Europe would practically be falling apart.

The only reason circumcision is accepted in America is because of religious fear mongering that is over a century old by an Adventist by the name of Dr. Kellog. He wasn't a doctor, he was a liar and a butcher of small children. A lot of his practices were glorified torture and genital mutilation of boys and girls with no pain killers.

But tell us how you really feel

That's the same Kellogg who made the cereal, right? Yeah. If I'm not mistaken, it is.

Worth noting that he got kicked out of the Adventist church.

CM156:

Ultratwinkie:

Elcarsh:
It is really quite difficult to be civilized on a topic that regards such a cruel and barbaric practice. Really, there is nothing more to it. It is the pointless infliction of pain on those who can in no way whatsoever defend themselves or refuse.

Now, I know some people will bring up the good old "But the babies don't remember it!", but I'd like to remind those people that it's basically the date-rapist's prerogative. If the victim can't remember it, there's no harm done, eh? And so what if a dentist sexually abused a sedated patient? The patient won't remember it, so it's fine!

Circumcision of infants is nothing short of legalized torture.

/thread.

What I find hilarious are the people who claim religion makes it okay.

If I was any other religion, and claimed surgery at birth was necessary by command of a fictional character, I would be put into a asylum.

The rest is utter fear mongering with no basis in fact. If the fears were true, Europe would practically be falling apart.

The only reason circumcision is accepted in America is because of religious fear mongering that is over a century old by an Adventist by the name of Dr. Kellog. He wasn't a doctor, he was a liar and a butcher of small children. A lot of his practices were glorified torture and genital mutilation of boys and girls with no pain killers.

But tell us how you really feel

That's the same Kellogg who made the cereal, right? Yeah. If I'm not mistaken, it is.

Worth noting that he got kicked out of the Adventist church.

Yes he was.

Frankly. A surgery should be only by consent or absolute necessity. Surgery of any kind shouldn't be done in any other circumstance. A surgery for a problem that may not even exist is fear based. All surgeries are inherently risky and to be taken lightly.

I didn't get nose surgery because I might have a broken nose in the future, nor get my wisdom teeth taken out before they become a problem. Surgeries are for problems that are verified to exist. You don't go looking for trouble, you solve problems that are presented to you.

Anything else would leave you in more pain than if you just waited.

That's how I feel. Leave it to consent and necessity. Religion, and culture should not play any part in telling people how their bodies should be.

Personally I'm glad my parents had it done to me as an infant because I would assume it hurts like hell and since it was done as an infant I don't remember.

I had it done when I was a baby... pissed as I am that my parents violated me for their own religious reasons, there are health benefits. Better and longer sex and better hygiene mostly. Also it looks bigger and better.

Now, back to the part about doing it to a baby, who by definition cannot give informed consent...that is sick. Even though the procedure is technically good for you (well that's subjective of course, but many would agree that it is I think) forcing surgery on someone because of your beliefs is wrong.

Xan Krieger:
Personally I'm glad my parents had it done to me as an infant because I would assume it hurts like hell and since it was done as an infant I don't remember.

From what I'm told, the procedure hurts a little less than getting your wisdom teeth removed. But the recovery is where the pain gets really bad, I'm told.

No, I'm not circumcised. But I'm not really against it. While I think it's rather unneccesary to circumcize newborn babies, I don't think it's at all in the league of female circumcision. In male circumcision, the worst you risk barring unusual complications, is that you desensitize your penis slighty. But if I've understood female circumcision correctly... Gods. I think it's in a very different league of barbarity.

There is a difference in that you only remove the protective slip of skin, as opposed to clipping the head off, which would be the equivolent were the two practices equal.

Furthermore, at least male circumcision can have some medical merit to it. While getting one preemptively just in case sounds a bit silly, there's at least a reason to ever do it. I personally think it'd be better to simply wait until the child can have a say in it all, since it can't be done in reverse.

We're not living in tribal Palestine anymore, and keeping your kit clean isn't a very difficult task. While it was probably wise to remove a potential source for infections back then, there's no real reason to do that now. Again, unless you've got genuine reason to.

But then again, it's a bit of a... Religious issue. I doubt anyone is interested in wading into that particular snakepit. I still recall some opponents being accused of being anti-semitic closet Nazis wishing to eradicate Jewish culture by the less pleasant folks in the lobby. A sensitive issue, ironically.

Well, this is basically a question of mutilation being a bad thing, possible side effects (such as deformities and even losing it altogether) and not doing stuff to children that affect them permanently without them having an informed say in it. (I say informed because indoctrinating children with it being necessary, never telling them anything else and asking them at age 16/18/21 if they want it, is not a decision at all)

On the other side, all that's there is "But it's religion! We must have special treatment!" and various ridiculous excuses made up to support that claim.

Especially the latter annoys me. "But hygiene is better!", yes, if you take a bath or a shower yearly, it will yes. Otherwise, it's utterly pointless. Much like wiping your arse with your bare hands like Islam prescribes was a hygienic advance in the year 700, but is utterly archaic in this era of toilet paper, soap, cleaning agents and epidemics being almost a thing of the past.

Because of those changed conditions, people advocating male genital mutilation today are on the same level as people arguing to not use toilet paper and wipe your butt with your bare hands.

hardlymotivated:
Hello all.

It's been a good while since the topic of circumcision (male and/or female) has been discussed in R&P.

And a nice silence its been. I bet by post 10 there will be a "its child abuse" comment and by post 20 there will be an open attack on all religion and religious people.

I'm going to try and behave and avoid entering this one.

As a man who was recently circumcised (fewer than 12 hours ago), the topic's naturally been weighing on my mind a little,?

Just curious, how old are you and why did you have yours done? (And a tip I heard from a friend, a bag of frozen peas works nicely if you have discomfort).

I'm aware that it's likely to be rather a divisive topic, but let's do ourselves all a favour and try to keep it this civil. If you want to talk about female circumcision as well, fair enough, but I'd be rather surprised if anybody came out as being in favour of it.

If you want civil, keep FMG out of it. It's not the same thing and it takes the thread to a stupid place.

I was circumcised as an infant. I would like to have had a choice, but I don't get mad about it. Since I've never really known anything else, I'm pretty much okay with it. However, I don't think that the practice should continue. There's no need to perform a surgery on an infant unless there's something wrong that needs to be addressed.

For my two cents:

It happened to me and I am not too upset over it. However I know that it does reduce sensation and is unecessary so I feel it was pointless ultimately (and sex may feel even better if it hadn't happened).

I do consider it a form of genital mutilation but in no way is it the equivalent of female "circumcision". That would be like having the whole head of my penis chopped off and my scrotum sliced up so that I would find any and all sex somewhere between boring and painful.

Was done to me as infant and I don't care. Would of liked having it not done but at same time if it had never happened and wanted it I couldn't go through with it. Would than be annoyed it was never done. I like peace in fact it was done as infant so I never had chance to make decision myself when older and possibly regret it for rest of life.

circumsized at birth, never really gave much thought to it. I have misgivings about having it done to my own children, but i don't parents who choose to need to be villainized.

I think its barbaric and should not be allowed[For parents to force on their kids].
And hopefully it will be illegal for parents to force it on their kids... (For religious reasons ofc, if you have a medical condition then of course you should be allowed)

I'm uncircumcised as routine infant circumcision isn't something practiced where I was born, and I haven't had any health problems that would have required me to be circumcised later in life.

My views are pretty simple, if it needs to be done for health reasons that's fine, if you want it done for any reason whatsoever once you're deemed old enough to make that decision that's fine too, but I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of routine or ritual circumcision. I'd be against any unnecessary surgery or body modification done to someone who didn't or couldn't consent.

Well I guess I'll be the one to break the ice in support of female circumcision. Kidding, there is absolutely no justification to female circumcision at birth because it would be like taking a Bowie knife to the scrotum for girls, sh!t just won't work after that.

As for guys being circumcised, speaking as a person who was cut at birth, I don't really have anything against it. I don't buy into the whole "It reduces the amount of pleasure from sexual activity!" argument. You can't tell me that the most enjoyable and stimulating thing that can happen to me is only a fraction of the "real" experience. Maybe there's a few sanitation benefits to being cut, but I don't buy into that mindset either. Maybe I would if it was the 1700s but in today's society it's pretty easy to stay clean down there.

I am also fine with parents getting babies circumcised but don't think either way is the clear right way. Something so negligible shouldn't be something to dwell on in later years in terms of "violating baby's rights" because it happens so early on that you pretty much are who you are at that point. It's not like you know any different.

hardlymotivated:
Hello all.

It's been a good while since the topic of circumcision (male and/or female) has been discussed in R&P.

As a man who was recently circumcised (fewer than 12 hours ago), the topic's naturally been weighing on my mind a little, and I'm interested to find out where your thoughts and opinions lie with male circumcision in infancy. Were any of you circumcised at birth? Do you have any thought with regard to your parent(s) or doctor's decision?

I'm aware that it's likely to be rather a divisive topic, but let's do ourselves all a favour and try to keep it this civil. If you want to talk about female circumcision as well, fair enough, but I'd be rather surprised if anybody came out as being in favour of it.

Could I ask you whether you feel any difference in sexual experiences as someone who has uh, played for both teams? Is it still just as good or can you tell any noticeable differences?

EDIT: Ok, I guess you should probably take your time and let what happens happen. You have one week.

It's a usually unnecessary cosmetic procedure. I have a hard time giving two shits about it either way.

TheTurtleMan:

hardlymotivated:
Hello all.

It's been a good while since the topic of circumcision (male and/or female) has been discussed in R&P.

As a man who was recently circumcised (fewer than 12 hours ago), the topic's naturally been weighing on my mind a little, and I'm interested to find out where your thoughts and opinions lie with male circumcision in infancy. Were any of you circumcised at birth? Do you have any thought with regard to your parent(s) or doctor's decision?

I'm aware that it's likely to be rather a divisive topic, but let's do ourselves all a favour and try to keep it this civil. If you want to talk about female circumcision as well, fair enough, but I'd be rather surprised if anybody came out as being in favour of it.

Could I ask you whether you feel any difference in sexual experiences as someone who has uh, played for both teams? Is it still just as good or can you tell any noticeable differences?

Dude, he had surgery 12 hours ago! I think sex is probably a sore subject right about now.

Batou667:

TheTurtleMan:

hardlymotivated:
Hello all.

It's been a good while since the topic of circumcision (male and/or female) has been discussed in R&P.

As a man who was recently circumcised (fewer than 12 hours ago), the topic's naturally been weighing on my mind a little, and I'm interested to find out where your thoughts and opinions lie with male circumcision in infancy. Were any of you circumcised at birth? Do you have any thought with regard to your parent(s) or doctor's decision?

I'm aware that it's likely to be rather a divisive topic, but let's do ourselves all a favour and try to keep it this civil. If you want to talk about female circumcision as well, fair enough, but I'd be rather surprised if anybody came out as being in favour of it.

Could I ask you whether you feel any difference in sexual experiences as someone who has uh, played for both teams? Is it still just as good or can you tell any noticeable differences?

Dude, he had surgery 12 hours ago! I think sex is probably a sore subject right about now.

Yeah, I think you're not permitted to have sex until 2-4 weeks later, if I remember correctly. Personally, I don't think someone would want to after having to have it cut.

The only person I ever asked about it was the doctor who was going to deliver our child (turned out to be a girl so it doesn't matter) and his response was a recent study that showed uncircumcised males averaged the same number of UTI's as girls while circumcised males had less. That didn't strike me as a big deal either way so the wife and I came to an agreement about what we would have done of we had had a boy. If we do have any boys in the future when we have more kids they will be circumcised.

To the people militantly opposed - Please don't bother as I won't be reading or responding to your posts. I did not come here for advice, I got that from an actual Doctor. I'm just stating my feelings and plans and you have zero chance of changing our decision.

Cut vs uncut thread. Again.

image

If it is done for a proper, medically proven, reasons, in a proper medical facility by certified medical professionals, preferably under some of anaesthetic.. I have no problem with it, any more than I have a problem with any other medical procedure that is needed due to real suffering.

If it is done just because the parents want it to be, or just because their religion says so, then no. It DEFINATELY shouldn't be a public spectacle and done in unsanitary circumstances by non medical professionals.

Amputation of any part of the body should only be done because there ids a proven health risk to the individual and the doctors see no other choice.

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