So, Trayvon Martin. (Updated 9/10: From the duh and oops departments)

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Heronblade:

reonhato:

Not G. Ivingname:

Can you please show me evidence that a gun escalates a fight? Why would people fight harder when an object that can end their lives in an instant is pointing at them?

you do know what thread we are in right?

Prove that Zimmerman not only lied about what happened, but that he was belligerent and itching for a fight, and we'll talk about whether or not him having a gun made a difference. You'll have a tough time, people owning a concealed carry license have already been shown to, at least on the whole, be significantly more passive and coolheaded when it comes to a fight than most. Can't claim the same thing for owners of a standard gun license, but that population is far more varied.

If however his story was at least relatively accurate, and that possibility is looking more and more likely in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the unarmed individual in this case was the only aggressor and had no reason to believe the man he was assaulting had a gun. Frankly, if the latter situation was true, Zimmerman revealing that he had a gun earlier would almost certainly have ended the fight without bloodshed, or more accurately, prevented the conflict entirely.

im pretty sure the outcome would have been different had zimmerman not had a gun, you know the whole fact that martin was shot and killed makes it an easy conclusion to come to.

reonhato:

Heronblade:

reonhato:

you do know what thread we are in right?

Prove that Zimmerman not only lied about what happened, but that he was belligerent and itching for a fight, and we'll talk about whether or not him having a gun made a difference. You'll have a tough time, people owning a concealed carry license have already been shown to, at least on the whole, be significantly more passive and coolheaded when it comes to a fight than most. Can't claim the same thing for owners of a standard gun license, but that population is far more varied.

If however his story was at least relatively accurate, and that possibility is looking more and more likely in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the unarmed individual in this case was the only aggressor and had no reason to believe the man he was assaulting had a gun. Frankly, if the latter situation was true, Zimmerman revealing that he had a gun earlier would almost certainly have ended the fight without bloodshed, or more accurately, prevented the conflict entirely.

im pretty sure the outcome would have been different had zimmerman not had a gun, you know the whole fact that martin was shot and killed makes it an easy conclusion to come to.

True, Zimmerman could have died of a subdural hemorrhage.

ravenshrike:

reonhato:

Heronblade:
Prove that Zimmerman not only lied about what happened, but that he was belligerent and itching for a fight, and we'll talk about whether or not him having a gun made a difference. You'll have a tough time, people owning a concealed carry license have already been shown to, at least on the whole, be significantly more passive and coolheaded when it comes to a fight than most. Can't claim the same thing for owners of a standard gun license, but that population is far more varied.

If however his story was at least relatively accurate, and that possibility is looking more and more likely in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the unarmed individual in this case was the only aggressor and had no reason to believe the man he was assaulting had a gun. Frankly, if the latter situation was true, Zimmerman revealing that he had a gun earlier would almost certainly have ended the fight without bloodshed, or more accurately, prevented the conflict entirely.

im pretty sure the outcome would have been different had zimmerman not had a gun, you know the whole fact that martin was shot and killed makes it an easy conclusion to come to.

True, Zimmerman could have died of a subdural hemorrhage.

Or he could have beaten Martin to death.

TechNoFear:

You mean the ability of the people to over throw a tyranical government?

You really believe that is a possibility, given that nearly half of Americans can't be bothered to vote?

I think the McMinn Country War proves the answer is yes.

How fragile is US democracy that it requires citizens to be armed at all times?

Considering that were have had 2 constitutions in over 2 hundred years apparently we have a very stable government.

reonhato:
guns do kill people.

So you are saying that guns have the ability to act on their own without intervention? Ascribing an action to and inanimate object is not only logically faulty it is insane.

a gun is much more likely to kill a person if used over a knife. i have used the example before that in the UK a bar fight starts and 2 guys punch each other until exhausted, they go home and wake up the next day bruised. in america a bar fight starts they punch each other a few times, one pulls a gun shoots and only 1 wakes up the next day.

Problem, few bar fights in the US lead to a person getting killed. I have had a few drunks try and fight me. Hell, after a hunt the local honky tonk was usually our first stop and we usually kept our guns on us. No one was ever shot or stabbed. At my local school kids carry pocket knives all the time. There were occasional fights but never once was a knife drawn. Why? Because we do not want to kill people and even with a few drinks in us that does not change.

violence in america is no more common then a lot of other modern countries, however violence in america is much more lethal, guns are pretty much the cause of this.

Prove it.

as for the often called on washington dc stats. a couple of issues. crime as been falling consistently since the mid 90s, it is a common argument from pro-gunners that crime is falling with guns therfore guns prevent crime.... but crime is falling pretty much everywhere, guns or no guns. it is not guns that are preventing crimes, it is better technology allowing for more efficient policing as well as numerous other influences, it is not crime is dropping because of guns, it is crime is dropping despite guns. for an example you say car theft fell 10% (actually the stats show it closer to 15%). thats great introducing guns somehow lowered car theft by 15%..... until you look at the previous year and find that it fell slightly more in the year before guns were reintroduced. lets look at rape, in 2007 it was 192, in 2008 it was 186, in 2009 they had a good year it was just 150, but in 2010 it was back up to 187. what about aggravated assault. from 2006 to 2008 it fell almost 20%, from 2008 to 2010 it fell 10%, again it was falling before guns were introduce. what about robbery. this has actually gone up since the late 90s early 20s, which is not unexpected during economic stuggle. there was almost no difference between 2008 and 2009.

Problem, DC has one of the highest homicide and crime rates in the US despite all the gun laws. In fact crime went up in the city after the gun laws came into effect. Crime is dropping throughout the US despite there being more guns and gun owners than ever before.

Also I love the fact that you keep talking about socioeconomic-cultural factors BUT THEN say that guns are responsible. Not very consistent.

the way the pro-gunners use these statistics is technically correct, they are falling. however the conclusion they come to is simply wrong, in many areas of crime it was falling faster before. as i said it is not that crime is falling because of more guns, it is falling despite more guns.

That is perhaps the most logical, intelligent thing you have said in all the months I have talked to you. You are still wrong but does this signal that you are turning over a new leaf? I doubt it.

Prove it. You say it is the case so surly you can prove it. If guns make crime more lethal then shouldn't Texas have a higher murder rate than Illinois (there are far more guns in Texas and the socioeconomic situation is more open to crime)? Problem, Texas has a lower murder rate than Illinois. If crime would fall faster without guns then prove it. You say it is the case but what evidence do you have? I have plenty and have shown it several times. What do you have?

another issue is that during the gun ban it was found that most firearms involved in a crime were bought on the street of from neighbouring states. this is why gun control has to be done on a federal level. there is no point banning guns of someone can drive a couple hours and get one next door.

What is the point at all when you can just go to the next country over and get a gun? What is the point if you can build your own gun? What is the point if you can just take it from the cops? And on.

Mexico banned large numbers of guns on the federal level and see how well that worked out?

reonhato:
im pretty sure the outcome would have been different had zimmerman not had a gun, you know the whole fact that martin was shot and killed makes it an easy conclusion to come to.

Maybe Zimmerman gets beaten to death. Although you and Blablahb might declare that as a win.

reonhato:

Heronblade:

reonhato:

you do know what thread we are in right?

Prove that Zimmerman not only lied about what happened, but that he was belligerent and itching for a fight, and we'll talk about whether or not him having a gun made a difference. You'll have a tough time, people owning a concealed carry license have already been shown to, at least on the whole, be significantly more passive and coolheaded when it comes to a fight than most. Can't claim the same thing for owners of a standard gun license, but that population is far more varied.

If however his story was at least relatively accurate, and that possibility is looking more and more likely in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the unarmed individual in this case was the only aggressor and had no reason to believe the man he was assaulting had a gun. Frankly, if the latter situation was true, Zimmerman revealing that he had a gun earlier would almost certainly have ended the fight without bloodshed, or more accurately, prevented the conflict entirely.

im pretty sure the outcome would have been different had zimmerman not had a gun, you know the whole fact that martin was shot and killed makes it an easy conclusion to come to.

Yeah, Zimmerman may be the one dead, since the evidence is pointing to the fact that his head was being BEATEN INTO CONCRETE.

I don't think we would even be talking about this case if Zimmerman were the one to end up dead. Not sure we'd be talking about it even if both had died. In either case it probably wouldn't have gone past the local media.

evilneko:
snip

Hey just a quick update, George Zimmerman has posted bail, left in a bullet proof vest and is now living somewhere with a GPS monitor. Here is a link.

Volf:

evilneko:
snip

Hey just a quick update, George Zimmerman has posted bail, left in a bullet proof vest and is now living somewhere with a GPS monitor. Here is a link.

Yup, saw video of that on CNN. All perfectly reasonable in this case, IMO. I think the tracking device also partially explains the (relatively) low bail.

evilneko:
Snip

New update. The Sanford commissioner tried to resign but the city council said no (for now).

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57419136/sanford-commission-rejects-chiefs-resignation/

farson135:

evilneko:
Snip

New update. The Sanford commissioner tried to resign but the city council said no (for now).

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57419136/sanford-commission-rejects-chiefs-resignation/

Darn it, I forgot about that. Not really sure what to think of it, either.

In regards to the bail postage and ankle bracelet, if that happened say... over a month ago when this all went down, this entire sh*tstorm would not have happened. Which is really, and ultimately, the saddest part of this entire fiasco.

Maybe someone can get Spike Lee to tweet Zimmerman's incorrect GPS location too. Then he can be relevant for the second time in twenty years.

farson135:

evilneko:
Snip

New update. The Sanford commissioner tried to resign but the city council said no (for now).

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57419136/sanford-commission-rejects-chiefs-resignation/

It's nice to see a city refuse to bend to external pressure. It's not the chief's fault that eyewitnesses that saw absolutely nothing lined up out the door to crucify Zimmerman once the story got big.

The witnesses will likely cause the case to get thrown out before it goes to trial, but that's not because of the police. It's just amazing that the witnesses are slightly less credible than the people from that leprechaun video.

ravenshrike:

TechNoFear:
Again context. I am quite happy to back my opinion that Australia's stricter firearm laws have saved lives.

The latest (by Leigh & Neill) says:

Do Gun Buybacks Save Lives? Evidence from Panel Data:
We find that the buyback led to a drop in the firearm suicide rates of almost 80 per cent, with
no statistically significant effect on non-firearm death rates. The estimated effect on firearm
homicides is of similar magnitude, but is less precise. The results are robust to a variety of
specification checks, and to instrumenting the state-level buyback rate.

http://people.anu.edu.au/andrew.leigh/pdf/GunBuyback_Panel.pdf

Y'know, it's funny. The only studies that show reduction in guns reduces overall violence seem to be coming from Australia, using australian data sets. You would think those same people would be able to take data from anywhere else and come to the same conclusion, but they can't. Why is that?

Because there are no other countries where the firearm ownership rate was reduced from 43% to 14% in a year?

Or do you mean like Killias's study of 18 countries, that found higer rates of firearm ownership correlated with higher rates of violent crime?

evilneko:
snip

Somewhat relevant, a white guy was beaten by a group of black guys and they said that "that's justice for trayvon".

ravenshrike:

Volf:

evilneko:
snip

Somewhat relevant, a white guy was beaten by a group of black guys and they said that "that's justice for trayvon".

That being the third "justice for trayvon" attack that I know of.

The first two being

http://ironicsurrealism.com/2012/04/14/baltimore-aaron-parsons-charged-in-connection-to-videotaped-assault-of-tourist-held-on-at-1-million-bond/

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/crime/alton-hayes-trayvon-martin-white-man-attacked-black-racist-racism-maywood-chicago-suburb-20120420

You will hear nothing from the administration and the justice department on this. They need to keep this hidden. Everything Eric Holder does and says suggests that he believes that racism against white people is acceptable.

ravenshrike:
True, Zimmerman could have died of a subdural hemorrhage.

A small price to pay for not having GUN DEATHS, the most evil thing in the world. Dying of uncouth gunshots is OBVIOUSLY morally worse than dying of getting kicked in the head by gangs of young men, wanting guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens so they can kill those men if they try to commit vicious and destructive crimes is racist or something, because all lives are equal and there should be no rewards or punishments for living one way or another.

[sarcasm tag OFF.]

I'm reading this ThinkProgress article about ZIMMERMAN'S PARANOID RACISM AND SEXISM and liking the guy even more. They show themselves no better than ABC in showing photos:

image

Zimmerman's on the right. Looks like some But since ThinkProgress is a bunch of Communists or whatever they're calling themselves these days, they neglected to show the full photo:

image

So to recap, not only is Zimmerman 1/8 black, not only did he crusade against police corruption against homeless black people, not only has he seen both sides of the law and had a proper sympathy for those caught in the wrong, even back then he hung out with a crew of basically all-American guys and he only hates-illegal criminal Mexicans who don't work and who sponge off of Hispanic Americans who do, like half of the people in the picture. And given the degree to which he turned his life and his waistline around in just seven years from that picture, I can find nothing to accuse him of(especially given Trayvon Martin's far more revealing Twitter feed, shamefully ignored by the hacks who possess the organs of journalism. They're mad because he called his girl a "hoe"? How many times did NO_LIMIT_NIGGA tweet that?)

Every time I see a Trayvon Martin sign all I can hear is "Barrabas! Give us Barrabas!" Long Live George Zimmerman indeed, I'm happy to be among the many who donated on his site to help him raise his first $200,000 and I hope he sues every one of those craven media bastards who willfully and maliciously redacted public information to stir up a riot like this.

harmonic:

ravenshrike:

Volf:
Somewhat relevant, a white guy was beaten by a group of black guys and they said that "that's justice for trayvon".

That being the third "justice for trayvon" attack that I know of.

The first two being

http://ironicsurrealism.com/2012/04/14/baltimore-aaron-parsons-charged-in-connection-to-videotaped-assault-of-tourist-held-on-at-1-million-bond/

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/crime/alton-hayes-trayvon-martin-white-man-attacked-black-racist-racism-maywood-chicago-suburb-20120420

You will hear nothing from the administration and the justice department on this. They need to keep this hidden. Everything Eric Holder does and says suggests that he believes that racism against white people is acceptable.

Oh, stop it. There is no evidence whatsoever, outside of an offhanded comment made after one of these incidents, that anything here is some half-assed attempt at "justice for Trayvon."

Your pathetic whimperings of White Victimhood are embarrassing.

Tyler Perry:

harmonic:

ravenshrike:
That being the third "justice for trayvon" attack that I know of.

The first two being

http://ironicsurrealism.com/2012/04/14/baltimore-aaron-parsons-charged-in-connection-to-videotaped-assault-of-tourist-held-on-at-1-million-bond/

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/crime/alton-hayes-trayvon-martin-white-man-attacked-black-racist-racism-maywood-chicago-suburb-20120420

You will hear nothing from the administration and the justice department on this. They need to keep this hidden. Everything Eric Holder does and says suggests that he believes that racism against white people is acceptable.

Oh, stop it. There is no evidence whatsoever, outside of an offhanded comment made after one of these incidents, that anything here is some half-assed attempt at "justice for Trayvon."

Your pathetic whimperings of White Victimhood are embarrassing.

Let's see, witness in first crime, and confession in the latter two, one to police and one on fucking twitter. But no, nothing to do with trayvon martin.

ravenshrike:

Tyler Perry:

harmonic:

You will hear nothing from the administration and the justice department on this. They need to keep this hidden. Everything Eric Holder does and says suggests that he believes that racism against white people is acceptable.

Oh, stop it. There is no evidence whatsoever, outside of an offhanded comment made after one of these incidents, that anything here is some half-assed attempt at "justice for Trayvon."

Your pathetic whimperings of White Victimhood are embarrassing.

Let's see, witness in first crime, and confession in the latter two, one to police and one on fucking twitter. But no, nothing to do with trayvon martin.

It has nothing to do with travyon martin because it is an outside isolated incident being done by ignorant people. It is a sad situation but speaking of it as an element of the case is just further race baiting. After 9-11 dozens of Arabs, Asians, and Indians were beaten and killed by Random mobs, it doesnt make them any more or less justified becuase they were in "retaliation" for 9-11. It just makes them sad and stupid.

Tyler Perry:

harmonic:

ravenshrike:
That being the third "justice for trayvon" attack that I know of.

The first two being

http://ironicsurrealism.com/2012/04/14/baltimore-aaron-parsons-charged-in-connection-to-videotaped-assault-of-tourist-held-on-at-1-million-bond/

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/crime/alton-hayes-trayvon-martin-white-man-attacked-black-racist-racism-maywood-chicago-suburb-20120420

You will hear nothing from the administration and the justice department on this. They need to keep this hidden. Everything Eric Holder does and says suggests that he believes that racism against white people is acceptable.

Oh, stop it. There is no evidence whatsoever, outside of an offhanded comment made after one of these incidents, that anything here is some half-assed attempt at "justice for Trayvon."

Your pathetic whimperings of White Victimhood are embarrassing.

lol just admit in the first sentence that there is evidence, then deny it in the second part. wtf

Volf:

Tyler Perry:

harmonic:

You will hear nothing from the administration and the justice department on this. They need to keep this hidden. Everything Eric Holder does and says suggests that he believes that racism against white people is acceptable.

Oh, stop it. There is no evidence whatsoever, outside of an offhanded comment made after one of these incidents, that anything here is some half-assed attempt at "justice for Trayvon."

Your pathetic whimperings of White Victimhood are embarrassing.

lol just admit in the first sentence that there is evidence, then deny it in the second part. wtf

The only one I've seen was some white guy got beat up, and after the fact, someone walking away said "yeah, that's for Trayvon" or some nonsense. If that's your idea of "evidence," then I'm happy you're not on the fucking jury.

The White Butthurt in this thread is astounding. It never ceases to amaze me how desperately so many white Americans need to make themselves into the victims.

Tyler Perry:

Volf:

Tyler Perry:

Oh, stop it. There is no evidence whatsoever, outside of an offhanded comment made after one of these incidents, that anything here is some half-assed attempt at "justice for Trayvon."

Your pathetic whimperings of White Victimhood are embarrassing.

lol just admit in the first sentence that there is evidence, then deny it in the second part. wtf

The only one I've seen was some white guy got beat up, and after the fact, someone walking away said "yeah, that's for Trayvon" or some nonsense. If that's your idea of "evidence," then I'm happy you're not on the fucking jury.

The White Butthurt in this thread is astounding. It never ceases to amaze me how desperately so many white Americans need to make themselves into the victims.

There have been multiple stories, you just choose to ignore them.

Volf:

Tyler Perry:

Volf:
lol just admit in the first sentence that there is evidence, then deny it in the second part. wtf

The only one I've seen was some white guy got beat up, and after the fact, someone walking away said "yeah, that's for Trayvon" or some nonsense. If that's your idea of "evidence," then I'm happy you're not on the fucking jury.

The White Butthurt in this thread is astounding. It never ceases to amaze me how desperately so many white Americans need to make themselves into the victims.

There have been multiple stories, you just choose to ignore them.

Ah yes, multiple stories. One of the links in Ravenshrike's post is a dead link, the other is some dumbfuck posting something on Twitter. Overwhelming evidence of the Great Negro Revolution in support of Trayvon Martin.

Tyler Perry:

Volf:

Tyler Perry:

The only one I've seen was some white guy got beat up, and after the fact, someone walking away said "yeah, that's for Trayvon" or some nonsense. If that's your idea of "evidence," then I'm happy you're not on the fucking jury.

The White Butthurt in this thread is astounding. It never ceases to amaze me how desperately so many white Americans need to make themselves into the victims.

There have been multiple stories, you just choose to ignore them.

Ah yes, multiple stories. One of the links in Ravenshrike's post is a dead link, the other is some dumbfuck posting something on Twitter. Overwhelming evidence of the Great Negro Revolution in support of Trayvon Martin.

I didn't say that there was some "revolution", just that there was more than one case. Your being overly dramatic.

Tyler Perry:

Volf:

Tyler Perry:

The only one I've seen was some white guy got beat up, and after the fact, someone walking away said "yeah, that's for Trayvon" or some nonsense. If that's your idea of "evidence," then I'm happy you're not on the fucking jury.

The White Butthurt in this thread is astounding. It never ceases to amaze me how desperately so many white Americans need to make themselves into the victims.

There have been multiple stories, you just choose to ignore them.

Ah yes, multiple stories. One of the links in Ravenshrike's post is a dead link, the other is some dumbfuck posting something on Twitter. Overwhelming evidence of the Great Negro Revolution in support of Trayvon Martin.

Yes, because it's too fucking hard to google alton hayes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/26/alton-hayes-trayvon-martin_n_1447295.html

Better? And I'll point out that chicago cops are almost all democrats and anti-gun, so they're unlikely to make that up.

As for the tweeter link, he's also the one WHO FILMED THE BEATING. And then tweeted about it. But no, nothing to do with Trayvon.

ravenshrike:

Tyler Perry:

Volf:
There have been multiple stories, you just choose to ignore them.

Ah yes, multiple stories. One of the links in Ravenshrike's post is a dead link, the other is some dumbfuck posting something on Twitter. Overwhelming evidence of the Great Negro Revolution in support of Trayvon Martin.

Yes, because it's too fucking hard to google alton hayes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/26/alton-hayes-trayvon-martin_n_1447295.html

Better? And I'll point out that chicago cops are almost all democrats and anti-gun, so they're unlikely to make that up.

As for the tweeter link, he's also the one WHO FILMED THE BEATING. And then tweeted about it. But no, nothing to do with Trayvon.

You do realize there's almost 300 million people in the U.S., right? ONE actual confirmed, "Trayvon-is-the-reason" incident and a Twitter post (which still proves absolutely nothing). Two incidents.

What, exactly, is your point? Now, if I didn't know any better, I'd say you were trying to paint a picture that there's some pattern of retaliatory black-on-white violence over the whole Trayvon Martin thing. But I know you're not THAT stupid.

ravenshrike:

Tyler Perry:

Volf:
There have been multiple stories, you just choose to ignore them.

Ah yes, multiple stories. One of the links in Ravenshrike's post is a dead link, the other is some dumbfuck posting something on Twitter. Overwhelming evidence of the Great Negro Revolution in support of Trayvon Martin.

Yes, because it's too fucking hard to google alton hayes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/26/alton-hayes-trayvon-martin_n_1447295.html

Better? And I'll point out that chicago cops are almost all democrats and anti-gun, so they're unlikely to make that up.

As for the tweeter link, he's also the one WHO FILMED THE BEATING. And then tweeted about it. But no, nothing to do with Trayvon.

Im still lost to what your actual point is. What are you arguing? Are you postulating that normal black citizens are protesting Trayvon Martin by enacting violence on innocent whites? Maybe you are saying a wild fringe element is committing these acts in the name of justice for Trayvon which could make some sense if there were any proof of it.

However is it not much more likely that we have groups of worthless thugs who were looking for trouble and victims anyway and in their twisted minds added the Trayvon Martin's name on it for flair . The link you posted clearly indicates that this was a robbery by two young thugs who decided to throw a beating in for good measure. It shows no real connection to Trayvon Martin other than the idiot criminal sadly using Martin's name as an excuse in the hopes of possibly gaining leniency.

If this is the threshold of logic and proof for... whatever it is you are trying to prove than every instance of black on white crime can be revenge for slavery. Maybe Jeffry Dhamer had predominantly black victims as revenge for the NBA. Maybe when an Asian kills a Mexican person it is to retaliate for being the largest minority group in California. Maybe women with large breast kill women with small breast because it is easier for them to find bras in their size and it emits fits of rage. Or is all of this as ridiculous as it sounds?

Tyler Perry:

The White Butthurt in this thread is astounding. It never ceases to amaze me how desperately so many white Americans need to make themselves into the victims.

Sharpton? Is that you? You go on and on about "white people" with impunity. I know you're allowed to be racist against white people now, but in due time, society will mature enough to realize that conquering racism is the responsibility of everyone, not just "the other guy."

feeqmatic:

ravenshrike:

Tyler Perry:

Ah yes, multiple stories. One of the links in Ravenshrike's post is a dead link, the other is some dumbfuck posting something on Twitter. Overwhelming evidence of the Great Negro Revolution in support of Trayvon Martin.

Yes, because it's too fucking hard to google alton hayes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/26/alton-hayes-trayvon-martin_n_1447295.html

Better? And I'll point out that chicago cops are almost all democrats and anti-gun, so they're unlikely to make that up.

As for the tweeter link, he's also the one WHO FILMED THE BEATING. And then tweeted about it. But no, nothing to do with Trayvon.

Im still lost to what your actual point is. What are you arguing? Are you postulating that normal black citizens are protesting Trayvon Martin by enacting violence on innocent whites? Maybe you are saying a wild fringe element is committing these acts in the name of justice for Trayvon which could make some sense if there were any proof of it.

However is it not much more likely that we have groups of worthless thugs who were looking for trouble and victims anyway and in their twisted minds added the Trayvon Martin's name on it for flair . The link you posted clearly indicates that this was a robbery by two young thugs who decided to throw a beating in for good measure. It shows no real connection to Trayvon Martin other than the idiot criminal sadly using Martin's name as an excuse in the hopes of possibly gaining leniency.

If this is the threshold of logic and proof for... whatever it is you are trying to prove than every instance of black on white crime can be revenge for slavery. Maybe Jeffry Dhamer had predominantly black victims as revenge for the NBA. Maybe when an Asian kills a Mexican person it is to retaliate for being the largest minority group in California. Maybe women with large breast kill women with small breast because it is easier for them to find bras in their size and it emits fits of rage. Or is all of this as ridiculous as it sounds?

Funny except the criminals in these stories said there motivation was because of Travyon Martin.

But if you want to compare whats happening, these acts of violent are related to Trayvon Martin just like how the L.A. riots were related to finding the white cops who beat Rodney King innocent.

Volf:
]Funny except the criminals in these stories said there motivation was because of Travyon Martin.

But if you want to compare whats happening, these acts of violent are related to Trayvon Martin just like how the L.A. riots were related to finding the white cops who beat Rodney King innocent.

Just because the criminal said this doesn't make it any more sensible or worthy of detracting from the Trayvon Martin case. Do you think that if trayvon Martin werent still alive these two thugs wouldnt have robbed someone else? Do you think this is the first time they have done something like this? How does armed robbery correlate to Trayvon Martin? It makes no sense its a complete non sequitor in terms of the case. Criminals have been committing crime for years how does Trayvon Martin suddenly make it a racial issue? If I go out and smack a Jewish person and say it was for canceling the Arsenio Hall show (look it up) would that be a reflection on Arsenio Hall?

When did trayvon Martin's parents or Lawyers or even Al Shaprton say "Hey random black people of America, if you really care about the Trayvon Martin case you would go ROB A MUTHAFUCKA." This is A really, REAAALLLY stupid point.

Furthermore the LA riots were not related to finding the white cops. Maybe the first 15 minutes they were looking for cops, but the next few days they were just breaking and burning things. The riots was a violent release of built up rage combined with low life stupidity. And im pretty sure no one looked at Rodney King and said "look what you did Rodney."

feeqmatic:
snip

I didn't say that Trayvon Martin, or his family are responsible for these crimes(because their not), just that what happened to Trayvon motivated these criminals. As for your speculation as to whether or not these crimes would have been committed regardless, there is no way of knowing that.

As for your comment about Arsenio Hall, no it wouldn't reflect on Jews, but it doesn't mean that the closing of Arsenio Hall couldn't be motivation for people to commit crimes against Jews.

Finally in regards to your comments about the LA riots and what modivated people to act that way, I think you should check again, because there are people who would disagree with you on what started the riots.

Volf:

feeqmatic:
snip

I didn't say that Trayvon Martin, or his family are responsible for these crimes(because their not), just that what happened to Trayvon motivated these criminals. As for your speculation as to whether or not these crimes would have been committed regardless, there is no way of knowing that.

As for your comment about Arsenio Hall, no it wouldn't reflect on Jews, but it doesn't mean that the closing of Arsenio Hall couldn't be motivation for people to commit crimes against Jews.

Finally in regards to your comments about the LA riots and what modivated people to act that way, I think you should check again, because there are people who would disagree with you on what started the riots.

Volf...

well first the English teacher in me has to tell you that you keep using there/their/they're incorrectly. That is a pet peeve of mine, i promise im not a grammar Nazi as you can probably tell from my own hap hazzard writings, but i figured id throw that out there for you.

Other than that, the point im making is that... well what the hell is the point of bringing up the fact that CRIMINALS are doing CRIME in the name of an unassociated third party. You may say there is no way of knowing whether or not these crimes were committed with any true motivation associated with Trayvon Martin (although common sense should easily tell you they are not) the point still remains... what the hell is the point of bringing these cases up?

Some people are idiots, and criminals tend to commit crimes, i find it hard to believe that criminals would suddenly gain a righteous spirit to associate with their crimes. Your earlier link was clear a case of a robbery/assault. The kid didnt walk up to the man and say "this is for trayvon" he walked up to him and said "empty your pockets" exactly where does Trayvon Martin fit into that. It was only after he was caught that he said he was motivated by Trayvon Martin. Its utter nonsense. But really lets not even look into this. Tell me, WHAT POINT DOES THIS PROVE THAT IS ACTUALLY RELEVANT TO THE MARTIN CASE? Cause if you are trying to prove that lowlifes do lowlife things than mission accomplished.

harmonic:

Tyler Perry:

The White Butthurt in this thread is astounding. It never ceases to amaze me how desperately so many white Americans need to make themselves into the victims.

Sharpton? Is that you? You go on and on about "white people" with impunity. I know you're allowed to be racist against white people now, but in due time, society will mature enough to realize that conquering racism is the responsibility of everyone, not just "the other guy."

I am white, genius. Don't let the avatar fool you.

And yes, white Americans, especially white male Americans, have this almost pathological need lately to paint themselves as victims.

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