Official Special Investigation Into Trump Thread

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yundex:
So it's been this long and there is still no proof? Did everyone figure out it was a lie or is this horse still being assaulted.

The Watergate investigation took 10 months. Mueller has only been on the job for the last 5. Also, do you really believe that they would disclose evidence to the greater public before they're ready to go to trial?

yundex:
So it's been this long and there is still no proof? Did everyone figure out it was a lie or is this horse still being assaulted.

I expect it to be decades until it's clear just how deep the corruption within the current administration goes.

BeetleManiac:

yundex:
So it's been this long and there is still no proof? Did everyone figure out it was a lie or is this horse still being assaulted.

The Watergate investigation took 10 months. Mueller has only been on the job for the last 5. Also, do you really believe that they would disclose evidence to the greater public before they're ready to go to trial?

So that's a "no" to both questions, I see. No evidence aside, it doesn't really matter how the truth was exposed. I mean, if anything they did us a favor.

yundex:
So that's a "no" to both questions, I see.

Whatever helps you sleep at night, dude.

BeetleManiac:

yundex:
So that's a "no" to both questions, I see.

Whatever helps you sleep at night, dude.

I sleep well regardless.

yundex:
So it's been this long and there is still no proof? Did everyone figure out it was a lie or is this horse still being assaulted.

Of course it was fake. Look at how fast they dropped the narrative and swapped to other stuff once people stopped buying it.

Now it's Trump is unfit for president or how he's the cause of the hurricanes in the states.

Anyone talking about the Mueller investigation should be more concerned about all the Hilary goons he's going after.

Whitbane:
Snip

You forgot your rimshot. Shifting stuff onto Hillary is a joke. I don't even know why you brought it up.

FalloutJack:

Whitbane:
Snip

You forgot your rimshot. Shifting stuff onto Hillary is a joke. I don't even know why you brought it up.

It should be a rule to add a rimshot every time Hilary is mentioned at this point.

I gotta say, the Russia story does seem to hit hardest in a late night comedy setting.

Mueller casts broad net in requesting extensive records from Trump White House

The special counsel investigating Russian election meddling has requested extensive records and email correspondence from the White House, covering areas including the president's private discussions about firing his FBI director and his response to news that the then-national security adviser was under investigation, according to two people briefed on the requests.

White House lawyers are now working to turn over internal documents that span 13 categories that investigators for the special counsel have identified as critical to their probe, the people said. Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III, appointed in May in the wake of Trump's firing of FBI Director James B. Comey, took over the investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 election and whether the Trump campaign coordinated with the Russians in that effort.

The list of requests was described in detail by two people briefed on them. Both insisted on anonymity to discuss a sensitive investigation. Some details of the requests were first reported Wednesday afternoon by the New York Times.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mueller-casts-broad-net-in-requesting-extensive-records-from-trump-white-house/2017/09/20/3c5cfbe2-9e2e-11e7-8ea1-ed975285475e_story.html?utm_term=.3f8b8e95f1e0

So he is just now getting around to the white house documents just as Manafort's investigation has been expanding.
Exclusive: Mueller team's focus on Manafort spans 11 years
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/19/politics/mueller-manafort-pressure-decade-investigation/index.html
Of course it does because he was on the payroll to help corrupt Ukrainian elections and give Crimea to Russia.

How someone can think it is okay to put a guy in charge of a US presidential campaign who helped Russia interfere with Ukrainian elections to try and take them over is beyond me.

Lil devils x:
How someone can think it is okay to put a guy in charge of a US presidential campaign who helped Russia interfere with Ukrainian elections to try and take them over is beyond me.

He did more than that, probably. He was most likely involved in organizing the attack on US marines 11 years ago. That's why the investigation spans 11 years: http://taskandpurpose.com/manafort-connected-ukraine-attack-marines-trump/

Manafort is quite literally a US born Russian agent. Or to put it bluntly - a traitor.

Mueller has apparently moved his investigation into the dossier containing the supposed pee tapes, taking it over from the FBI.

kinokohtake:
Mueller has apparently moved his investigation into the dossier containing the supposed pee tapes, taking it over from the FBI.

Mueller's team also met with Steele, the author of the dossier. I wonder how much Mueller knows that the public is not aware of.

Mueller's team apparently interrogated Reince Priebus, who is unlikely to defend Trump. And 19 Republicans in the House have responded by filing for hearings to kill the investigation. Potentially, that means obstruction of justice charges for them too.

BeetleManiac:
Mueller's team apparently interrogated Reince Priebus, who is unlikely to defend Trump. And 19 Republicans in the House have responded by filing for hearings to kill the investigation. Potentially, that means obstruction of justice charges for them too.

They won't be hit with obstruction charges--they're just playing politics.

Given how badly Trump's unraveling these days, well, I can honestly see him not making it past January as President.

My thinking is that the only reason the GOP's tolerating him is self-preservation: Either they pass a tax code change or they're screwed. According to plenty of news articles (which I shan't bother pulling up unless someone requests that I do so) it seems that Trump's about to have a full blown nervous breakdown and the GOP is becoming worried whether he'll keep it together long enough for them to at least try to pass Tax breaks

To just make matters worse the situation's gotten so bad that some GOP types are frankly hoping the Democrats will take over Congress in 2018 because the Democrats don't have to worry about being destroyed by their support base the same way the Republicans do and the Republicans are worried that Trump is destroying this country (no matter what they say publicly though they're saying enough behind the scenes that even Fox is talking about it with less than rose colored glasses).

Times are bad. Trump's going down one way or another but there is a genuine fear that he could snap---and he does have access to the Nuclear codes.

Which leaves me wondering aloud: I wonder if the Secret Service has some kind of non-spoken agreement to stop a US president from going nuclear when they recognize that he's gone crazy and is trying to start WW III out of madness?

Basement Cat:

Which leaves me wondering aloud: I wonder if the Secret Service has some kind of non-spoken agreement to stop a US president from going nuclear when they recognize that he's gone crazy and is trying to start WW III out of madness?

Well, they're not going to be labeled the Kingslayer for saving the world from becoming Fallout and Metro 2033. They wouldn't even have to kill him, just physically stop him. I'm sure there's something about protecting the president from himself in there.

Speaking of unravelling, though... Every time I hear that, I remember my uncle - He's a college professor - pointing out how years back, Trump was alot more eloquently spoken. Still an asshole, but he wasn't full of gobbledegook, just shit. I have to take that to heart, every time he says something that - more than being insane, offensive, or just plain stupid - seems like he's unable to string together enough thoughts for coherency.

Oh, the apologists have to be going fucking nuts.

Hopefully they can produce some damn evidence soon. I have good money wagered on the Cheeto Bandito's looming impeachment.

A bit off-topic, but has the new Clinton uranium Russia story been posted here yet?

Edit: Nevermind.

Which leaves me wondering aloud: I wonder if the Secret Service has some kind of non-spoken agreement to stop a US president from going nuclear when they recognize that he's gone crazy and is trying to start WW III out of madness?

For what it's worth, the Secretary of Defense has to countersign off on launching nukes. It's not like Trump can be sitting on the can, go nuts and fire them off on his own. While the SoD is legally obligated to confirm the launch, if Matiss honestly thinks Trump has gone nuts, do you think he'd do it?

RikuoAmero:

Which leaves me wondering aloud: I wonder if the Secret Service has some kind of non-spoken agreement to stop a US president from going nuclear when they recognize that he's gone crazy and is trying to start WW III out of madness?

For what it's worth, the Secretary of Defense has to countersign off on launching nukes. It's not like Trump can be sitting on the can, go nuts and fire them off on his own. While the SoD is legally obligated to confirm the launch, if Matiss honestly thinks Trump has gone nuts, do you think he'd do it?

You have to quote me to get a reply. :)

And no, I don't think Matiss would cosign a nuclear attack without a damned good reason. I just wonder if there are loopholes for Trump to exploit: Say the Secretary is out of the country? What then?

Basement Cat:
And no, I don't think Matiss would cosign a nuclear attack without a damned good reason. I just wonder if there are loopholes for Trump to exploit: Say the Secretary is out of the country? What then?

To bounce off of this: The people responsible for actually turning the keys and pushing the button can say "Replace me, court marshal me, whatever, but I'm not going to launch." if for whatever reason they object to the launch or just can't do it. Yes, it would be considered insubordination, but they can be insubordinate if that's what it comes down to. If none of the people in the proper position and authority to launch are willing to launch, then who knows where it'll go.

Basement Cat:

RikuoAmero:

Which leaves me wondering aloud: I wonder if the Secret Service has some kind of non-spoken agreement to stop a US president from going nuclear when they recognize that he's gone crazy and is trying to start WW III out of madness?

For what it's worth, the Secretary of Defense has to countersign off on launching nukes. It's not like Trump can be sitting on the can, go nuts and fire them off on his own. While the SoD is legally obligated to confirm the launch, if Matiss honestly thinks Trump has gone nuts, do you think he'd do it?

You have to quote me to get a reply. :)

And no, I don't think Matiss would cosign a nuclear attack without a damned good reason. I just wonder if there are loopholes for Trump to exploit: Say the Secretary is out of the country? What then?

From what I've read up on the nuclear football, if only Trump sends his codes to the nuclear silos/subs, it's not enough (I saw a movie a few weeks ago, can't recall the title, of where the President and Vice President are assassinated, and the next guy to be sworn in as president secretly gives his new nuke codes to the assassins so that nukes could be launched). Matiss needs to give his own codes too.

Arrests are expected by Monday. It's happening a lot faster than I thought. This puts the White House's actions over the last week into an interesting new context.

The arrest might be big, but I'm not expecting much. Possibly Flyn/Manafort but I'd imagine that what would happen then would be that all the blame will be shifted to them and then Trump will just pardon them and his base will eat it all up anyway.

For a good laugh, you can check out fox news website right now and hear the cricket. Rep/Trump able will probably not even hear about the arrest if they happen.

Meiam:
The arrest might be big, but I'm not expecting much. Possibly Flyn/Manafort but I'd imagine that what would happen then would be that all the blame will be shifted to them and then Trump will just pardon them and his base will eat it all up anyway.

I dunno, Trump caught a lot of flak even from GOP congressmen/women for pardoning Arpaio. Portions of his base may let him slide on this, but I don't think the GOP could afford to just let it slide should he try to pardon them. That pardon, should it happen before the congressional elections, might be what pushes some GOPers to try Amendment 25ing him.

BeetleManiac:
This puts the White House's actions over the last week into an interesting new context.

You mean the whole "Hillary colluded with Russia" thing? Yeah, it was the most obvious attempt at projection possibly ever. There was no sense in it at all. It was a crude, dumb attempt that a child could see through. Was anyone supposed to believe that Hillary colluded with Russia to have her own e-mails hacked and released by Wikileaks during the campaign? It takes a real, genuine moron to believe that even for a split second.

As for pardoning powers, I believe Mueller's team made it known that they will go after these guys on a state level. Trump can't do anything about it in that case. I'm not sure that he would be able to do anything even on a federal level. It would be a blatant obstruction of justice.

Adam Jensen:

You mean the whole "Hillary colluded with Russia" thing? Yeah, it was the most obvious attempt at projection possibly ever. There was no sense in it at all. It was a crude, dumb attempt that a child could see through. Was anyone supposed to believe that Hillary colluded with Russia to have her own e-mails hacked and released by Wikileaks during the campaign? It takes a real, genuine moron to believe that even for a split second.

Oh, that particular smear wasn't about alleging that Clinton hacked her own emails. It was about some vague and complicated accusation involving Russia, Canada, uranium deposits, and the State Department.

What happened was that a Russian company bought a controlling share in a Canadian company which had the rights to mine up to 20% of US uranium deposits (which is not actually a lot of uranium, since most of the world's uranium comes from Australia and Kazahkstan.) Because uranium was involved, the State Department had to sign off on the sale, which they did through a nine-member committee. The connection to Clinton is vague, since she wouldn't have personally approved the sale, and the idea that it was illegal is basically nonsense; aside from Clinton not being directly involved, and aside from the fact that there are nine other people who had to approve the sale, and aside from the fact that the sale also required the approval of the Canadian, Kazahk and South African governments, there's the simple fact that what was purchase was a mining license, not an export license. That is, they can mine the uranium, but they cannot export it outside the United States.

So, chaff, really, but chaff that is complicated and salacious enough that most Trump supporters won't bother investigating into the details. People really, really, really want a reason to hate Hillary, and Trump knows that making an issue about Hillary is a winning strategy for him. That's why he's continued bitching about her well into his presidency, when every other president would have let the losing candidate slip into dignified irrelevance.

Adam Jensen:
As for pardoning powers, I believe Mueller's team made it known that they will go after these guys on a state level. Trump can't do anything about it in that case. I'm not sure that he would be able to do anything even on a federal level. It would be a blatant obstruction of justice.

The legal question, essentially, is whether or not it counts as an obstruction of justice for the President to pardon someone for obstruction of justice. I mean, it's not even clear if the President can't just pardon himself.

If Trump tries to pull something like this, I expect it would cause a constitutional crisis, one that won't be resolved in time to actually put Trump on trial.

bastardofmelbourne:
Oh, that particular smear wasn't about alleging that Clinton hacked her own emails. It was about some vague and complicated accusation involving Russia, Canada, uranium deposits, and the State Department.

I'm aware of that. I'm just saying that if Hillary is so tight with Russia they should have helped her during the campaign. But all we've seen from Russia about Clinton is hostility and illegal activities aimed against her campaign. So logically, if they're so tight, she did that to herself trololololol.

Look at this sad attempt: https://twitter.com/PressSec/status/924288651378520066

Adam Jensen:
Look at this sad attempt: https://twitter.com/PressSec/status/924288651378520066

The sad part about that tweet is that people will still believe it.

The tweets are only going to get sadder. Look at this: https://www.rawstory.com/2017/10/do-something-panicky-trump-tweets-about-phony-trumprussia-collusion-as-monday-arrests-loom/

They're scared, as well they should be. I confess I'm looking forward to rubbing this in the face of the people who said that Mueller investigation was a nothing burger.

BeetleManiac:
nothing burger.

"Apologists! We present to you, this big fat shit-burger."

Apologists: It's a nothing burger!

"Well then, you take a nice big bite. And then, you'd better own that shit, because you are the shit-burger."

It begins. Manafort has been ordered to turn himself over to federal authorities.

And now we've got Reps. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.), Andy Biggs (R-Ariz.) and Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) introducing a measure that demands Mueller's resignation, claiming conflict of interest due to Mueller's "close personal relationship" with Comney, and for some reason threw in a bit about how the FBI should be investigated for "willful blindness" about Uranium One

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/03/house-republicans-robert-mueller-resignation-244517
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/conservative-republicans-demand-mueller-recuse-himself-over-uranium-deal/2017/11/03/809135bc-c07f-11e7-959c-fe2b598d8c00_story.html?utm_term=.46e1b5bdd338
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/03/gop-reps-gaetz-gohmert-biggs-push-for-mueller-resignation-in-new-resolution.html

...And they do this just days after the first charges are made. Coincidence, I'm sure. *eyeroll*

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