Overlord 2

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imkerrusin:

CapnJack:
Wait - what character was Yahtzee talking about and in which Joss Whedon show? All of them? Say it ain't so!

My favourite critic bashing my favourite (television) writer... Am I really the only Firefly fan here wondering if Yahtzee hates Firefly?

Actually, he hates Joss Whedon. He explains it too in one the casts he was on. One of those big debates about Joss Whedon.

Though he's got a point about Whedon and his characters. They are all the same concepts just in different bodies. (though I would have to say, Mal and Inara would be more like Buffy and Spike than Buffy and Angel.)

One of the "casts" he was on? I'm not sure what that means. The second part of your post explains nothing to me. Who is Yahtzee talking about? All the characters? Because while some are smug and snarky, I'd find it hard to argue all of them are.

And I'm not exactly sure how Buffy and Spike are anything like Mal and Inara.

Heh, I just found a video on Yahtzee hating Whedon. It's kind of funny. Is this what you were talking about?

Going back to the forcing us to care mechanic dough, yes exactly like in mass effect. Why didn't i put enough intimidation points to tell Wrex to STFU and just keep on going. But then there was this choice, Your 2 pals from the begging of the game, Either your friend Kaidan who has been with you for allot longer than the girl and probably knows you better or Ashley Williams who you have known for shorter but its an Attractive girl that is not only open to you but advancing again kind of a hard choice, I could never see my self killing Kaidan off dough, i always carry the kid around and love his character. Also the lack of interest i had in Ashley love subplot increased my focus on saving Kaidan, I was expecting more character development out of him, a kid that doesn't know why he is different. people try to change him and he ends up breaking necks about it sounds allot like me also at points it felt more that taking the role of Kaidan would had been more suitable for me.

Yatzee is right about this all dough, telling you that your character lost their whole platoon on a fight is not goint to really make you care, now once you see them loose their whole platoon on a fight and make you choose wich of your good companions is gonna get nuked within a time limit :P now that is a good deciccion subplot.

Also Both Prototype and Infamous had a city that i just didn't care for, and this is why I personally like prototype more, because it lets me blow it up with style and much more variety. Like jump kicking Helicopters. Yeah.... but both the cities felt like a bunch of cardboard boxes that needed to be turned knocked down.

Excellent article. To me the morality mechanic is just a bad idea. I find it much easier to care about a game world when I get to impose my own values on it.

CapnJack:

imkerrusin:

CapnJack:
Wait - what character was Yahtzee talking about and in which Joss Whedon show? All of them? Say it ain't so!

My favourite critic bashing my favourite (television) writer... Am I really the only Firefly fan here wondering if Yahtzee hates Firefly?

Actually, he hates Joss Whedon. He explains it too in one the casts he was on. One of those big debates about Joss Whedon.

Though he's got a point about Whedon and his characters. They are all the same concepts just in different bodies. (though I would have to say, Mal and Inara would be more like Buffy and Spike than Buffy and Angel.)

One of the "casts" he was on? I'm not sure what that means. The second part of your post explains nothing to me. Who is Yahtzee talking about? All the characters? Because while some are smug and snarky, I'd find it hard to argue all of them are.

And I'm not exactly sure how Buffy and Spike are anything like Mal and Inara.

Heh, I just found a video on Yahtzee hating Whedon. It's kind of funny. Is this what you were talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4obiNEFtvU

I must say, this has really allowed our dear Benjamin to explain further his thoughts. Most points I agree with, but I do feel that a character does't have to be useful to gameplay to be likable, they just have to make them important to the story and the character your in control with. Plus make the main guy/girl likable as well, that helps.

I wonder if main character from Prototype is actually more evil than Overlord himself - he eats people's faces Oo

I find "YOU ARE VERY SAD NOW" very funny. In Fallout 3 when reunitied with the long lost father, you can kill him and the game won't bring "YOU LOVE HIM TOO MUCH" sign in order for you to stop.
I wasn't sure if dicking in dicking-free zones was a bad thing, untill I remembered how much fun is to commit unscript genocide even if it will foce you to load save from 2 hours ago afterwards.
I guess some people just have that teamkiller in them that makes them do friendly fire as often as possible :D

I know that a good pair of boobs is something nice to have in a game, but it shouldn't be the main focus of woman in game when there's porn for that.

The Atheist Knight:
This is the best reason I can think of for caring about NPC allys/friends in a game. Coincidentally I might check out a harvest moon game.

Just found this game is only about farming and getting married. I won't be playing it.

Extra Punctuation?... Really?
Well, I'm always happy to get more ZP.

Mercernary:
Extra Punctuation?... Really?
Well, I'm always happy to get more ZP.

Well, if one takes the ZERO punctuation from the videos and adds the EXTRA punctuation from the articles, then one has the right amount of punctuation, right?

CapnJack:

One of the "casts" he was on?

Pod"casts" on Australian Gamer, the one mentioning Joss Whedon is September 6, 2008; all podcasts with Yahtzee mention him in the description (except for podcast 117, I think).
You might want to give those podcasts a listen, especially the ones with guest stars -- they're always amusing.

Gratz Yahtz.

I've never seen an article terminated with the word "cumshots." Breaking journalistic ground here, I think!

I hope yathzee takes one of the following directions with this:

1. Bring more depth to the review he made, and maybe even responds to the comments given on the vid.

2. Talk about other games.

Less "quick jokes" seems to fit writing better.

Oh Yahtzee, have you been playing too many open world games? Because that is all this is telling me. Overlord 2 is not an open world game, it doesn't try to be, you are playing a very specific character with their own personality, agenda, and motives. The game doesn't care what you think of the mistresses, just that you recognize that is who he is into, how will you have him go about it?

I understand you are not a fan of this sort of thing, and that's fine, I don't care when people don't like what I like, but it would be nice to see you blasting this game as it stands, and not as an open world game, which it is not, nor does it try to be.

It would actually be most accurate to compare this game to Pikman than it is to compare it to Fable II, but whatever, the escapist has given you a nice soap box so it would be a shame not to use it and we all know you don't give a shit what any of us think anyway, just hope you know that judging a game as if it were a completely different genre makes you look pretty lousy. It's a linear action/strategy thing, not open world.

holy.triforce:

1. Bring more depth to the review he made, and maybe even responds to the comments given on the vid.

LOL! Responding to comments. You're killing me. XD

I agree with Yahtzee 100%. While I haven't tried Overlord 2, I have tried the original and Fable 2, and I had the same problem. I just didn't care. I didn't care about the stupid dog, or the characters that would say "oh please help me; press A to save my shop or B to break everything in it!" And making stupid jokes in a British accent doesn't make a game, or it's characters, likable.

Kojiro ftt:
I agree with Yahtzee 100%. While I haven't tried Overlord 2, I have tried the original and Fable 2, and I had the same problem. I just didn't care. I didn't care about the stupid dog, or the characters that would say "oh please help me; press A to save my shop or B to break everything in it!" And making stupid jokes in a British accent doesn't make a game, or it's characters, likable.

Aside from the game's atmosphere and art style, it really has absolutely nothing to do with Fable at all, in any way whatsoever.

Kojiro ftt:
While I haven't tried Overlord 2

So why are you making a judgment?

"Firstly, they assume that a player's real-life emotions and desires carry over to their in-game avatar, and they don't."

Wow. Just wow. I try to make the same point all the time these days about video games. I also think its a pretty stupid mistake if game designers think that way.
I even wrote a paper for my college class "Violence and Aggression" that used this point, in another way, to say it is possible to not become a serial killer even if you've played a lot of violent games. In my opinion, most gamers are simply not working to use a video game as a "learning tool," nor do they consider it "real." In that case, I was attacking a documentary made by people who primarily never even played a video game, let alone know why anyone plays video games.
We just play video games for entertainment, and when the game isn't entertaining we put that game down!

I do have to say that half life did make alyx a likable character. I cant think of any oher game currently that has done that. Maybe mass efect.

IceStar100:
I think he has a point. Don't tell us to care make us care. Look at Mass Effect.

Spoilers

PS some one want to tell me why that messed up please.

But dont you think it was kind of obvious who you save? It was a good curve they through in there, but it wasnt exactly a "hard" choice. thanks for reminding me of that game though.

HardRockSamurai:
PS- I like the idea of Yahtzee following up on his reviews, it gives a lot more room for discussion, which is what the internet is all about.

I agree, it helps justify his opinions for the trolls and makes them clearer for those who didn't quite get them the first time round.

I agree with Yahtzee most about games trying to put your own personality on the character. If the game in question has multiple plots threads and dialog choices that actually effect the game (Deus Ex, and to a greater effect in terms of plot(although the game was not so good), Invisible War). But if the game has a fairly linear storyline and game design, then there needs to be some motivation there.

I'm pretty sure my Fable II wife is cheating on me...

I think a few good points have been made by Yahtzee. To care is a process. When you are in or reading a story, the characters and situation must be compelling to have any real effect. If a supposedly tragic story takes away or damages what you don't care about (Joss Whedon sass character) why will you feel anything less than offence at being forced to react?

That type of assumption, help this and that person for no real reason with little option to do otherwise, permeates badly written D&D adventures. You want to help such and such, they are a new acquaintance who seem okay, but not especially interesting. Proceed hero, I hold the carrot of xp and stuff-questing before you (muppet). The worst examples of this I can recall was from a pre-gen adventure. A merchant has lost his horse, taken by raiders. He is insulting yet wants it retrieved. Why would anyone assist? To decapitate and wear the horse head back into town would not satisfy the quest. The second one was a series of incidents inflicting a town on the frontier. The sheriff who always asked the pcs for help (so the story went) was a coward who did his best to not assist them at all. Naturally care did not arise for the poor village and their sheriff as all hell broke loose.

Watching the trailer to Valkyrie chronicles I silently promised to myself that if I played the game, I would march the militia leader woman who arrested the protagonist into the first hail of Nazi bullets. That is how badly I felt the game began, I wanted to join the plate-armoured nazis in killing the first npc.

If there is no connection, sense of allegiance, or even reasonable familiarity then why will there be sympathy or any emotional reaction as the story develops and becomes tragic?

bodyklok:
Extra punctuation? Sorry Yahtzee, I like you and all. But, I'm not really the reading type. Maybe if you put it all in a short video with animations and dick jokes I'd look at it, but for now...

every one in favor say i i i i i i i i i i i i i ii i i i i i i i i i i i ii i i

NPJH:
"Firstly, they assume that a player's real-life emotions and desires carry over to their in-game avatar, and they don't."

Wow. Just wow. I try to make the same point all the time these days about video games. I also think its a pretty stupid mistake if game designers think that way.
I even wrote a paper for my college class "Violence and Aggression" that used this point, in another way, to say it is possible to not become a serial killer even if you've played a lot of violent games. In my opinion, most gamers are simply not working to use a video game as a "learning tool," nor do they consider it "real." In that case, I was attacking a documentary made by people who primarily never even played a video game, let alone know why anyone plays video games.
We just play video games for entertainment, and when the game isn't entertaining we put that game down!

or launch it into the sun!

been talking *arguing* with matt again about joss whedon, yahtzee? sigh...

Odd... I quite like the Overlord series... however, I feel it best played on a console NOT on PC

but anyway.. Funny review as always Yahtzee! Keep it up!

I will say Yahtzee has made a very good point that I've agreed with for a long time, but I definitely think he picked the wrong game to demonstrate it upon. This is why you need actual writing in games, not programmers in meetings saying "Well I think then he should attack the evil guy's fortress." "OK, sure." The most crucial point is writing supporting characters to be likeable; so if you're given some prompt "Spend all your rupees to save X character's life for no gameplay benefit?" people CAN actually be immersed enough by that character's charm to answer "Take my firstborn too please."

I like the idea mr Croshaw.

Finally a way you can actually tell us what you think about a game rather than concentrate on the dick jokes.

Still, Overlord 2 was a decen game. 1 that should be rembered fo its uniqueness not greatness

Wow... I'll never be able to listen to that song again without thinking that. Thanks a bunch Yahtzee.

I will never think of "Hit me with your best shot" the same way again. This song now disturbs me even more than it did before.

IceStar100:
I think he has a point. Don't tell us to care make us care. Look at Mass Effect.

Spoilers

PS some one want to tell me why that messed up please.

I know exactly what you mean with that one. For me it was actually a fairly simple choice as I only really used one of them, but it STILL took me a few minutes of pondering to decide.

i enjoyed Overlord 2 and Fable 2 but only for the story and the gameplay. if you want to waste time getting married and having a dozen kids or buying all the stuff for your mistresses for kicks, not achievements, and you dont realise its a HUGE waste of time then something is very wrong.

I'm glad to see Yahtzee expanding on his foamy-mouthed ranting with something like this. And of course the author in me adores seeing people I like getting ink.

Incidentally, "Hit Me With Your Best Shot" is in the same category as "Come On Eileen" in terms of unintentional dirtiness.

Perhaps he should focus on updating Fullyramblomatic and maybe integrating it into the Escapist somehow..
This idea seems sort of suspect..

Still. Some great points made.

This is a problem I've had with many RPGs lately.

They expect me to care for the characters, the (attention, finger quotes) "plot", the world, but don't do anything for it.
"Here, have a generic party, some horribly done romance sub-plots and a beautifully animated world. Now go save that world or it makes BOOM."

Recently, more often than not, I've had the inclination to answer with "I hope their death will be really painfully".

IceStar100:

I had that problem indeed, especially as stats-wise, the one I wanted to keep had lower stats.

However I haven't played Overlord 2, so I can't compare.

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