Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood

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Lets start a charity for all of those poor characters afflicted with cutscene stupidity. Together we can find a cure.

And thank you for laying out the definition of hardcore gamer. Well done.

MaxTheReaper:
My god.

A description of a "hardcore" gamer that doesn't instantly insult anyone who doesn't play Halo/Gears of War/whatever other casual bullshit is masquerading as "hardcore" these days?

I'm in shock.

Yes all praise be to Yahtzee's literary prowess!

Personally these articles of Yahtzee's are revealing him to be quite the radicalist.

Yes I feel he's hitting the target, but than he continues to pummel away at the target till it's a bloody pulp.

Just because you own a Wii doesn't mean you're betraying gaming and hard core gamers. You can compromise, I own a PS3 and a Wii and play on them both quite equally. There are middle grounds. There are casual gamers who own Wii's and want Mario and Zelda games, and they want a game to be good, I've yet to mett a person looking for a bad game to play.

And pardon me, but aren't the gamers who buy a large proportion of the Mario, Zelda, Sonic ect stuff the casual gaming audience, the one's who aren't wise enough like the hard core guys to know they suck. The creators of Sonic have admitted the only make for the kids nower says, I'm fairly certain, you, yes you Mr Yahtzee have mentioned this fact amongst your video's.

Yahtzee is begining to feel like the guy who goes "What!? You don't want believe in the death penalty!? You want murderers and rapists to walk the streets free as a bird!?!?"

I still enjoy Yahtzee, I'm just finding his imperfections more noticeable now that the honey moon is over. So, that's my rant over with, I'll fall back in line to continue to kiss Yathzee's tanned and trilby wearing arse.

Edit: 100th post, whooo!

I think the real question here is 'do you like Nintendo'? I don't think Yahtzee does. At least not anymore. And that's fine. But don't try and make that seem like Nintendo's fault. They have been the same company with the same mentality since the NES. They have always gone after kids and parents and people who enjoy fun, whimsical games. They are the Disney of this business. . . or the Pixar, maybe. Don't be mad at them because you are not a kid, or a parent, and long ago lost your last shining gem of fanciful thought. Yahtzee, you think Nintendo will "have nothing but a broken gimmick and all the long-term hardcore players they betrayed." But when you are even older the kids in the families with Wiis of today will be twenty-somethings then, and will look back on the Wii as we do the NES. And the wheel will turn again.

Not so much interested in how we can fix Call of Juarez but in Yahtzee's description of hardcore gamers. It was almost breathtaking.

Enjoyed the little dig at QTEs, especially since it indirectly mocked RE5 for associating such an irritating gameplay mechanic to moving boulders.

TheEnglishman:
Personally these articles of Yahtzee's are revealing him to be quite the radicalist.

Yes I feel he's hitting the target, but than he continues to pummel away at the target till it's a bloody pulp.

Just because you own a Wii doesn't mean you're betraying gaming and hard core gamers. You can compromise, I own a PS3 and a Wii and play on them both quite equally. There are middle grounds. There are casual gamers who own Wii's and want Mario and Zelda games, and they want a game to be good, I've yet to mett a person looking for a bad game to play.

I'm almost certain that you've missed the point entirely, good sir. He never suggested that Wii owners had betrayed anyone, but that Nintendo had betrayed their former audience.

Maybe someone should do the inverse of Shadow of the Colossus and have a game with no bosses and just railgun (or other weapon of choice) fodder from beginning to end.

To keep the inverted theme going, there could be a major level up every second the character is alive or something similar.

PS. I bought Wii Sport Resort and 3 extra Wii-mote waggle enhancers, enjoyed the games (I have a weak spot for Archery, particularly archery that's done so 'realistically') but must admit that the novelty is wearing thin very fast, particularly the sword fighting which is only fun if you do it properly and if you can convince your opponent (which is probably losing to you at this point) that just randomly waggling the Wii-mote like they're trying to swat a swarm of flies is just plain cheating. They should have also had bugger around levels where you can endlessly shoot / swing at (and perhaps spawn at your behest) baddies / props / McGuffins as you see fit, basically a practice mode that isn't in fact a learning mode. Add some sandbox-ishness to what is supposed to be a resort, like wondering around, shooting passers by, etc. I haven't been to many resorts, but I doubt their activities are controlled so dictatorially, "You will shoot that target in this active volcano or we'll feed you to the pigs!". Then again this resort does have dogfights.

I think the same thing happened in Red Steel, where even though you had a Shotgun you had to fight all the bosses with a Katana. Why not blow their heads off? But in Juarez it was fun at least.

Uh, Yahtzee? You do realize that Nintendo, who "can't be bothered with Mario or Zelda games anymore," just devoted the bulk of their E3 conference to announcing:

- a new 2D Mario game
- a new 3D Mario game
- details on a new Zelda game that will probably receive a proper announcement fairly soon
- a new Metroid game developed by Team Ninja (for good measure)

Of course when these games actually come out I'm sure you'll scoff at Nintendo for just making more of the same, and then 2-3 years afterward when there's no Mario, Zelda, or Metroid games on the horizon it will be because Nintendo has abandoned the hardcore gamers. Yes, the same hardcore gamers who left Nintendo in droves in favor of Sony and Sega's cool awesome flashy devices, and now feel that Nintendo owes them something.

I think it'd be cool if they had a mechanic that made you shot other bullets out of the air with your own like in Wanted. Sorry inner 7 year old.

Fat Man Spoon:
"Tap X to wave it back and forth"

Wouldn't that make him want to shoot that, rather than the showdown fellow?

Then I guess the showdown fellow would win. :)

...you meant the player, right?

arcstone:

Fat Man Spoon:
"Tap X to wave it back and forth"

Wouldn't that make him want to shoot that, rather than the showdown fellow?

Then I guess the showdown fellow would win. :)

Yes, but know his brother has no shlong. So this would only work once.

Dan Shive:
Nintendo has a grip on us and they know it. Sure, we might whine a bunch about not getting Mario or Zelda games, but once they make one? We'll be there to eat them up. There are enough people who grew up on these games that the nostalgia factor will continue to draw us in, and once we're drawn in, the games are generally well done.

Worth noting is also that Nintendo doesn't really make any less Mario or Zelda games than they used to. In fact, they released more classic franchise games for the Wii in its first two years than they did for either the Nintendo 64 or the Gamecube. (And we sure didn't get a Super Mario 64-2 for the N64, as much as we probably wanted one.)

This is something people don't seem to realize when they go on rants about Nintendo focusing too much on the "casual" market, though. And honestly... I sort of expected better than that from Yahtzee. Oh well.

headshotcatcher:
the Cowboys had a thing called honour, they'd rather kill through a totally fair showdown than my shooting someone in the face while he sleeps. Ofcourse it does break the flow of the game but if you take on a western theme you'd be silly not to include stuff like that...

That's why a choice would be such a good idea. It's like Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II...it's a self-contained universe with a strict, well-known moral code dividing good guys from the bad. I know Yahtzee hates moral choice systems, but this is just crying out for one. You let the guy have his showdown, you're a white hat; you shoot the guy in the face, you're a black hat. Western fans would identify, it'd give the game more depth, and you could skip the stupid mini-game. It's not like Mass Effect or Fallout 3, where a moral choice system is just shoehorned in.

By Yahtzee's definition of a hardcore gamer I am not one, never have been and never will be. I however do hold the same dreams of video games that have innovation and depth as much as the next hardcore gamer so my opinion is still somewhat valid when I say Halo sucks.

And I hope you're getting paid extra for this.

_Algernon:
One thing, though - if the "Hardcore" mantle belongs to the righteous, the just, etc., what's the term for those OCD tweakers who fixate on hoarding cheevos and boast of plowing through five shitty games a week just to get their GamerScore up?

I've heard such people claiming the title as their own - perhaps only because "Hardcore Gamer" sounds sexier than "Compulsive Gamer", "Problem Gamer", etc...

_Algernon:
One thing, though - if the "Hardcore" mantle belongs to the righteous, the just, etc., what's the term for those OCD tweakers who fixate on hoarding cheevos and boast of plowing through five shitty games a week just to get their GamerScore up?

I've heard such people claiming the title as their own - perhaps only because "Hardcore Gamer" sounds sexier than "Compulsive Gamer", "Problem Gamer", etc...

The word hardcore has become as twisted as the words epic and pro. While some still hold onto their true meaning posers use the word as they please and it catches on. For these people, a pro isn't somebody who gets paid well for a good job and epic isn't a story that will go on through the ages.

If we were to use more modern terms such people use, Yahtzee's term for hardcore gamers would change to true gamers; those who are the art connoisseurs, the gourmets, the paparazzi of the videogame industry.

I'm still waiting for Nintendo to turn around, shuffle their feet akwardly, and say that they're sorry, and try and make it up with a new game, one we all know the concept to but are intrigued by the new idea they put into it--Like if they had released Super Mario Galaxy now, instead of right off the bat. Maybe that's what this new Metroid is supposed to be, or maybe the new Zelda, whatever the hell that one's going to be about (Though I'd gladly wait for them to finish it than try and rush it to us, trying to make up for it).

Oh, and that willy-wagging event sounds like a fun little aside after all the seriousness of being shot by old-school weapons so dated that Hanging was still the best form of threatening schoolchildren to do their reading, riting, and rithmatic (The Three R's!).

Fat Man Spoon:
"Tap X to wave it back and forth"

Wouldn't that make him want to shoot that, rather than the showdown fellow?

Ostensibly, you'd be giving the opponent an extraordinarily small target. ;)

Anyway. Thank you, Mr. Croshaw, for reminding us of the real meaning of "hardcore". As I've said in another post, that term has been hijacked as a term for fanatics of ultraviolent games where twitch reflexes trump all and screaming into a headset is the customary method of communication.

And the teabagging. Which is a bizarre method of expressing domination for a group that so loudly proclaims its heterosexuality. Hrm.

The Rogue Wolf:

Fat Man Spoon:
"Tap X to wave it back and forth"

Wouldn't that make him want to shoot that, rather than the showdown fellow?

Ostensibly, you'd be giving the opponent an extraordinarily small target. ;)

Anyway. Thank you, Mr. Croshaw, for reminding us of the real meaning of "hardcore". As I've said in another post, that term has been hijacked as a term for fanatics of ultraviolent games where twitch reflexes trump all and screaming into a headset is the customary method of communication.

And the teabagging. Which is a bizarre method of expressing domination for a group that so loudly proclaims its heterosexuality. Hrm.

Yes... small target... Ha.

In regards to the teabagging, I'm in total agreement, that always confused me.

Call of Juarez

First up I havent played Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood, so if I'm saying something stupid please be polite about it ^^

The problem as I see it is that the current "duel" system rapidly becomes stale.

Is it not acceptable to take a leaf out of COD4's book so to speak, and almost copy paste the sniping "event", if brother one is busy dueling brother two a would be unlikely to simply "wait in the car", perhaps a sign that something is wrong and to start shooting like touching the rim of his hat could be the trigger, maintaining that same duel suspence.

Now whilst once again this could not be repeated over and over, it would with other events such as drawing in the middle of a bad guys bar allow you to both retain the romantisesed duel and get that badguy sleeze.

what is more with one gunslinger for all intents unplayable you could give a badguy a sirious grudge by making the second character only wound him in the chaos, whilst still alloweing the player to "win" at the end of the level/chapter.

Nintendo:

Simple fact is that nitendo has a solid fanbase, they keep screwing it over because every time it comes back stronger - in the end - they are maintaining and "extending" (if you call a novelty consumers hightend opinion of nintendos products a fan)

in the end it will take for nindendos die hard fans to stop clawing every time nintendo throws them a bone. Mabe then when they have to work to maintain a fanbase it might just become a franchise worth its salt.

Hardcore:

simply put, if you think that you could be a hardcore gamer, you are.

very few casuals would consider themselves to be hardcore. to those whom are aware they have a passion...possibly obsesion for games then it is clear that they fall into the hardcore group.

Fat Man Spoon:

arcstone:

Fat Man Spoon:
"Tap X to wave it back and forth"

Wouldn't that make him want to shoot that, rather than the showdown fellow?

Then I guess the showdown fellow would win. :)

Yes, but know his brother has no shlong. So this would only work once.

Well, obviously you leave that for the last boss.

I don't know if telling that guy "fuck you" was the best course of action. You're basically saying, "I hate you, now listen to me!" Its not very persuasive. I mean, just imagine if I started this post with a "fuck you!"

No a major badass in a western should die in a hail of bullets after all his prick henchmen have been offed one by one.ie most Clint Eastwood style movies where the 'stranger',wild west version of Batman,methodically and ruthlessly picks off enemies with a cast iron lid under his poncho,and a machine like aim.

This game could have ripped off any of the cliffhanger endings for each boss fight from the plethora of spagetti western finales out there.

Doesn't it mean something when a respected game reviewer points out the major flaws in the Wii? I don't personally have a Wii but I'm pretty sure that standing in front of my TV and waving the clicker like a Wiimote will give me the same amount of pleasure. And in closing, people rarely change and if you are a 'casual gamer' you may also be a fad loving, clueless fuck.
(The Following is based on a true story.)
"Hey there 30-something African-American woman, who is also border-line obese, I heard you can't live without your Wii."
"That's right!!!"
"Really, you must be an avid gamer then."
"Not really... I just have one, 'Wii Sports', I cannot live without it."
"Well what about Metroid Corruption or Twilight Princes and Mario Galaxy and all the upcoming established titles?"
"Nigga Wha?"

Those last two paragraphs..... they brought tears to my eyes.... I've been gaming since I could sit on my own and hold something without trying to eat it. I'm one of those people who remember thinking the original Star Fox was a triumph of technological advance. I remember blowing all my money at the arcades and not wishing a single quarter had gone elsewhere. I am just young enough to have missed the crash that Nintendo singlehandedly saved the industry from. But I know the history, and I enjoyed every second I spent with the company we once felt was synonymous with gaming, right up to and through Twilight Princess on the Gamecube.

Then I got a Wii.

Then Brawl.

And now all of this, peripherals and gimmicks.

....

My word, how the mighty have fallen.

Them last two paragraphs were the best out of them all.

Well said, Yahtzee, and now I can understand why people dislike the casual gamer. I would sure like to see Nintendo make a new franchise, something similar to Psychonauts (gameplay and comedy-wise) and bring their old ones back to what they were.

As for Call of Juarez, I'm actually put off from buying the game after listening to Yahtzee's review and Extra Punctuation. Sounds like just another western shooter to me.

They could have just replaced the gunfight mechanic with a good old fashion bar fight those are always more fun and damn well better be doable in red dead redemption!

bjj hero:
Im all for the odd boss fight where you just shoot the guy in the face with little or no resistance. It can work really well.

Examples include the end of The Darkness, parts of rainbow 6 and the end of COD 4.

IT fit with the story and was good as it was a change from the rest of the game. If a level is fun and challenging it doesn't always need a boss fight at the end.

Other ideas include a "boss" type event. Eg: Having to run some sort of gauntlet to plant TNT in the right place of a mine/building/bridge/etc. The last boss bit could be a simple as lighting the fuse and watching your hard work come to fruition.

We've had last bosses since the 80's. Think outside the box a little more.

How can you even consider Zakhaev a final boss? The only way you lose is if you miss, or take too long, and it's not hard to hit, considering how he's a few feet infront of you, therefor, a huge target. And, the pistol is suddenly overpowered, taking him down in one shot anywhere.
OT: I agree with the showdown thing...it pissed me off when I had to re-do it because I didn't understand how to do it...but when I learned, I actually started to like it...then they got faster, and I got pissed again...

JimmyBassatti:

How can you even consider Zakhaev a final boss? The only way you lose is if you miss, or take too long, and it's not hard to hit, considering how he's a few feet infront of you, therefor, a huge target. And, the pistol is suddenly overpowered, taking him down in one shot anywhere.
OT: I agree with the showdown thing...it pissed me off when I had to re-do it because I didn't understand how to do it...but when I learned, I actually started to like it...then they got faster, and I got pissed again...

That was my whole point. It was a way to dispatch a main antagonist without the need for a way over done, 80s throw back, boss fight. I have nothing against boss fights, they can be really enjoyable. I just want more variation. While talking about over powered pistols, Im sure Yahtzee mentioned the over powered, regeneration halting pistols in the showdowns on Call of Juarez.

I'm not mad at nintendo for pandering to the casuals, I'm just disappointed.

They're slowly becoming Pop Cap for the big boys, but That's good for a buisnuess perspective. Let's not forget that all major game platforms and companies want to make money. I'm just worried that nintendo's gonna focus on nothing but casuals, which is why I'm woried about Metroid and Zelda.

I think if nintendo focused on making the Wii more gamer oriented it could work, but they've stopped caring because they've found a futt bucking gold mine. Let's be honest If any of us were in their position we'd probably be doing the same thing to support our cocaine and hooker habits.

headshotcatcher:

Anyway Yahtzee (eventhough youre probably not reading this) the Cowboys had a thing called honour, they'd rather kill through a totally fair showdown than my shooting someone in the face while he sleeps. Ofcourse it does break the flow of the game but if you take on a western theme you'd be silly not to include stuff like that...

As mentioned by others, that is just a hollywood gimmick. Cowboys didn't have much honor at all. Most badguys raped women, shoot people in the back and then made up stories about how they fucked up one hundred indians in one single battle. "Cowboy" is a very loose term. It seems that anyone is a cowboy as long as they have a gun but no badge.

TheEnglishman:
Personally these articles of Yahtzee's are revealing him to be quite the radicalist.

Yes I feel he's hitting the target, but than he continues to pummel away at the target till it's a bloody pulp.

Just because you own a Wii doesn't mean you're betraying gaming and hard core gamers. You can compromise, I own a PS3 and a Wii and play on them both quite equally. There are middle grounds. There are casual gamers who own Wii's and want Mario and Zelda games, and they want a game to be good, I've yet to mett a person looking for a bad game to play.

And pardon me, but aren't the gamers who buy a large proportion of the Mario, Zelda, Sonic ect stuff the casual gaming audience, the one's who aren't wise enough like the hard core guys to know they suck. The creators of Sonic have admitted the only make for the kids nower says, I'm fairly certain, you, yes you Mr Yahtzee have mentioned this fact amongst your video's.

Yahtzee is begining to feel like the guy who goes "What!? You don't want believe in the death penalty!? You want murderers and rapists to walk the streets free as a bird!?!?"

I still enjoy Yahtzee, I'm just finding his imperfections more noticeable now that the honey moon is over. So, that's my rant over with, I'll fall back in line to continue to kiss Yathzee's tanned and trilby wearing arse.

Edit: 100th post, whooo!

It's not about playing on the Wii! Christ! How can you not understand this? He doesn't say the Wii isn't for hardcore gamers. He says that Nintendo isn't focusing on the hardcore crowd. They make games that apeal to the general public. Games that you can get into really fast but aren't that advanced or interesting in the long run. The Sonic franchise is dead, all hardcore gamers know that, but Nintendo keeps making them to draw in kids who know nothing about the games or how bad they are.

Sony and Microsoft are treating their hardcore crowd with respect. Well, atleast with more respect than Nintendo. They keep making sequels to good games with improvements, they give us what we want. But we never hear anything from nintendo. We know that there is going to be a new mario and a new metroid for the wii... And that's it. How can you be so thick that you do not understand that. Nintendos marketing for the console is basically "Look, we have a console for the whole family with simple games you can enjoy for about an hour a day". That's not appealing to the hardcore fans, that's apealing to the casual gamers.

The points about the Showdown mechanic were accurate, and they do get tiring. There probably isn't a way to make them more exciting, so cutting the number down may be the best option. And Yahtzee's rebuttal of that guy was vicious and acerbic. As it should be. "Hardcore" doesn't describe the setting, it describes the attitude. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

While plenty of people are just plain sick of new Mario/Zelda, etc titles I'd say theres plenty who aren't sick of them as such (maybe), but can't help but think 'Just imagine what Nintendo could do if they stopped obsessing over those franchises'.

With the Wii it seems a lot have added 'Casual Gamers' to 'those franchises' and while I find Wii Sports and co fun (and yes I confess I have an 360 for other games), they have a point.

Catfoot:
[quote="headshotcatcher" post="6.129426.2809716"]
Anyway Yahtzee (eventhough youre probably not reading this) the Cowboys had a thing called honour, they'd rather kill through a totally fair showdown than my shooting someone in the face while he sleeps. Ofcourse it does break the flow of the game but if you take on a western theme you'd be silly not to include stuff like that...

lol are you joking? I think some one already pointed this out but they didn't actually do showdowns. the way people fought back then is they'd shoot a guy in the back and run like a bitch before his friends came after them.

Yahtzee, your final message was perfect. I felt like you were describing me.

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