Zero Punctuation: Brutal Legend

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Wow, really? everyone on forums is an expert. its both funny and sad at the same time. I see some of you actually know better than Tim Schafer and Jack Black. You could probably make a better game than EA any day right?

I thought this game was a valiant effort. It's massive in ambition and it gets a lot of it right. Sure some parts are a little unpolished but its still very playable. Most games dont even come close to this size and scope. You're all acting like this isn't a solid game.

I'm not an RTS junkie either, but its ok if brutal legend wants me to dabble in the genre albeit in a lighthearted manner. why is this so wrong? everything doesnt have to be God of Fooking War. Now that would be a shame.

For the past year, I have an idea for a video game that was like a forbidden hybrid of RPG, shooter, brawler, and weapon fighter; all set in a mission-progressed, sandbox world. Now, I'm starting to rethink the sandbox part.

Well this one was pure gold. The jokes were really witty and no penis jokes? Woah!
Maybe the next game wont be an open world, maybe it wont be RTS, maybe it will be any good. I peeked at friends house at this game and i didn't like it. Maybe the story is fine, but how can you love story when the game itself looks like crap?

well i liked the game lol

Thank you for pronouncing the umlauts. Now I know I'm not the only one.

Keep up the good work!

ARKSgtAlpha:
wow i was think of getting based off the escapist's review but now... anyway another awesome review (im guessing borderlands next week but thats just me)

There are all kinds he could possibly do next time, such as Uncharted 2, DJ Hero, Ratchet and Clank, Tekken 6, Marvel Ultimate Allience 2, Need for Speed: Shift, TMNT Smash Up, Dead Space Extraction, A Boy and His Blob, Marvel Sper Hero Squad, AND Borderlands.

Point is, he's got a lot to chose from for now.

I liked the game, you can't expect it to hold your hand and give you every detail in what to do.
Im surprised Yahtzee didnt praise how creative the game was with its scenery and characters

Guess its only the kind of game that appeals to metal head stoners who dont play many video games and can't distinguish "good" from "bad"
like me

He gained some respect in my book.

I also want to say that I called it

I'm still horrified that he never played Luigi's mansion.

I often get tempted to mail the dude a copy of the game.

Interesting Review. Shame that the game isn't like the demo apparently.

I don't know which is worse, the greatest game from a developer going criminally under-appreciated or that when they really have a chance to shine and actually do well they fail.

So, who betted on 5 people getting Mod action? I think i won myself a healthy £5 from a £1 bet!

I thought this was a pretty accurate review, I play RTS games and i found that this had a decent beginning for an O.K. RTS but it never really took it anywhere beyond a mediocre "meh" level.

I had a dream that one day game developers would stop goose stepping in circles around each other and would come up with some games that had a solid direction. But it didn't start with this game, and its a good thing I played it on my friends computer before I bought it.

But its the guy who made some of the best games of my childhood and I have played most of his games from the time I was wondering around in those weird 80's-90's neon kiddy shorts.

It was a disappointment, but it could have been worse. At least it didn't leave me hollow inside like battlefield 2142 with all of its glitchy, unfinished bullshit that EA ALWAYS pulls, and they ALWAYS will. Not everyone's ideas will be solid gold.
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for the people who like to go "1st" or "2nd" go do it on another forum.
I think a 7 day suspension should be mandatory, even on first time offenders because that 3 day warning isn't cutting it for some people.

Reuq:

Tales of Golden Sun:
Nice review.
I never knew that Mr. Croshaw has studied german

If you are refering to his pronounciation then I think he might just have a brain.

You can read it in the credits... He says he has to properly pronounce the umlaut because he has studied german.

Not the candlestick makers!
It's a shame that this game fell just a bit short of being great. There's some things to like - the humor, art style, fighting elements, base RTS elements - that make me want to get it. Then there's some bad things - unpolished RTS elements, humor tapering off as game goes on, repetitive missions - that make me not want to get it. I think I'll wait until the price goes down next year.

Br-YOO-tal Legend.

*giggle*

I tend to side with Tim Schafer on the RTS elements. By that I mean I make some pointless minions who do whatever I'm required to have minions for and then treat the rest of the battle like Dynasty Warriors. Now that I consider the soundtrack I play the whole game like Dynasty Warriors with a better soundtrack, and a car, and no Lu Bu.

blackfur:
Wow, really? everyone on forums is an expert. its both funny and sad at the same time. I see some of you actually know better than Tim Schafer and Jack Black. You could probably make a better game than EA any day right?

YOU FAIL CONCEALING FALLACIOUS LOGIC FOREVER.
It's okay to criticize a game even if you're not an experienced programmer because suitable grounds for criticism of any given concept is not being capable of making it but being capable of liking it.
Anyway, what bugs me about games with "RTS elements," and the modern RTS in general, is that everyone who's interested in that sort of thing seems to be married to that tired old formula - build spawning vats, spawn mooks, Zerg Rush. Then, maybe, throw in resource management or a combat triangle. Strategy means a lot more than that, and it doesn't hurt to drop or mutilate elements of that formula if it a) removes unnecessary irritations from the game or b)creates a more deeply enjoyable experience. I know the focus of this game was not on the strategy, but there's a chance that a more "on-the-fly" system could have made that aspect of the game less grinding - e.g., summoning fans with a kickass guitar solo and using your structures to upgrade them once they arrive.

Hellskull:
Funny solid review.
Though I still plan on playing the game, mainly because I actually take Yahtzee's reviews as a funny movie to pass the time rather then some judgment to refer to before buying stuff

Same here. If I used Yahtzee as a way to determine what I buy, I'd have about 6 games and half of them would be by VALVe. Still, Looks like I'll get when it drops to about $40 or $30 in price.

Well, now Schafer knows, linear is his deal and if he's wise he'll grace us with it next time around.
Good round this time, just learn to pronounce a German "Y".

Borderlands next week then?

Cheery bye!

Jaqen Hghar:

Of course not. But the amount of people thinking "Oh, he doesn't like it. Guess I won't buy it then" is quite big. When you should at least read around some more. There are also several things in the video which was plain silly. Cannot find Motor Forges? Seriously? If you cannot see the top of them surrounded by the red flowers you are told grows near things you can raise... then you just don't read the manual or in-game help enough. The thing about RTS is also quite funny. When he asks his "friend" if it is good RTS... the whole "amass a big army and throw them at the enemy" is the way you are supposed to play it. And because that is what you do in the RTS segments, this is not a good game?

The only thing I think is wrong is calling these videos proper reviews. 'cause they are more a rant about every little thing which irks Mr. Croshaw about the game. Even when he talks about games he love he manages to get the "this sucks" vibe out there. Hey, I love these videos as much as everyone else here. I just think it is wrong calling them reviews. Rants is more like it.

Calling it a rant is more indicative of the format rather than being a question of its legitimacy as a review. Personally I only watch Yahtzee for entertainment purposes, but that's true of all reviews I've watched. I used to watch a Canadian show, Reviews on the Run (same guys who do Electronic Playground) and I only watched it for the entertainment value as well. This idea of reviews as entertainment for me holds true especially for Yahtzee's because many of his reviews are for console games and the last console I bought was a Sega Master System. Reviews honestly don't mean much to me, some games which have been universally praised didn't hold my interest for long. Dawn of War 1 foremost among those.

If people want to take his reviews seriously that's their prerogative. How is it any different from taking the advice of a cynical friend? You mention the thing about Motor Forges, well I've not played the game but I can relate to the frustration that some people experience when the game doesn't tell them what to do. A game shouldn't lead a person by the hand but it should give enough information that the player doesn't have to stumble blindly into something. Being stuck at some point and not knowing how to proceed can be nothing short of infuriating.

I would say the major complaint I share with the Mustachioed Hat Man would be the woefully wrung-out campaign mode. Up until the halfway mark I actually thought everything was going in an awesome direction, but once Eddie is forced to flee a crumbling pleasure palace while gargantuan twisted monstrosities rain down from the sky to the tune of Dragon Force, we've crested the top of the mountain and are left to painfully stumble roll down the steep incline on the other side. Everything from the half way mark on just feels like the game is hastily checking things off on its plotpoints list so we can get to the ending, which in and of itself is only an 'ending' in the same sense that the fleshy nub that's grown over and amputation is the ending of a limb. It's all too clear that Bryootal Legend was blighted by the same rush job problems as Psychonauts, but while the endgame of Psychonauts was only slightly buggered up by developmental time problems (the lackluster death scene of Dr. Loboto, arguably one of the game's most outstandingly outlandish characters, still sticks in my craw to this day), with Brutal Legend it looks like the last 3rd of the game was hacked off and the 2nd third left to shrivel up from blood loss.

A major problem this whole horrid mess flings up is that of your three major antagonists, General Lyonshite winds up having to hold up the majority of the plot, and while he's a well-made and hilarious character, he's just not up to the task, ESPECIALLY since his army is just a glamrock re-skin of your own. The tragedy here is that the presentation of a wonderfully crafted and imagined villain winds up getting bloated out of proportion to fill the vacuum left by the other two and what was once great is now tiresome. Oh, and the demons have your once beautiful and glorious homeland conquered for all of five minutes before you chop off Emperor Vicky's noggin, then they magically blip out of existence in time for the end cutscene. UTTER WEAKSAUCE.

With AALLLL of that said, I would now like to drop my two cents into the "Disagreeing with Yahtzee" jar, having already dropped a buck-fifty into "Agreeing with Yahtzee". Essentially everything else Yahtzee whinged about either didn't bother me MUCH or actually entertained me, and I think it really says something that the world itself could get me to keep playing despite the experience being pierced by the screech of the SS Story's hull breaking on a myriad icebergs. I also really liked the squad-based battle system and the way it basically gave you a massive hivemind meta-weapon that was always fun to swing at targets too big or too numerous to be felled by your axe and guitar alone.

I also really have to wounder at Yahtzee's complaints about the game's status as a sandbox. This is basically guaranteed to make me look like a clueless fool, but I want people to still give this some actual consideration: IS Bryootal Legend REALLY a sand box game? Sure it has a wide world that you can explore at your leisure with sidequests and optional unlockable upgrades, but the central STORY only ever moves in one direction and still gives you upgrades and such for pushing it along to its completion. If you are jumping up and down in your seat ready to scream at me that YES THAT IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF A SANDBOX GAME, I want you to humor me whilst riddling me this: does that make the Legend of Zelda a series of sandbox games?

Think about it, MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS, everything from my description above also fits the LoZ games to a T. This may be a discussion for another place and time, but I really think it's a point well worth considering, because either A.) Our definitional of 'sandbox game' is flawed and needs revision, or B.) Sandbox games have been with us for a lot longer than we thought. I personally lean more towards the former, as a sandbox is a place in which you can do as you wish, meaning your choices can effect the outcome of ANY quest, side or story, while games that adhere to the LoZ and Bryootal Legend are just linear games set in a big world with some optional side quests. That being said, I really think Yahtzee doth protest too much to Bryootal Legend's approach, as he himself has complained about A CERTAIN TYPE OF RPG not allowing the events of the game to be driven by the player's actions, and what's wrong with making your game world vast and intricate like OH SAY FOR EXAMPLE our own?

Also I agree with Yahtzee on pronouncing the umlaut in Bryooooootal Legend on the grounds that it completely matches the tone of the game itself by sounding hilariously ridiculous while also conveying the idea that right after saying it you are going to let loose a demonic cackle then wail away on a guitar.

Credge:
It saddens me greatly that nobody draws the comparison to the PC game Sacrifice. That is what the "RTS" portion of the game felt like down to the letter, but instead of being useless in combat (aside from spells), you can hit things with your guitar.

And because people liked that game so much, it was a massive success and brought good fortune to Shiny.

Wait.

This model is badly flawed as a strategy game because it requires you to keep all of your troops together and rush the enemy's army with your army and hope you win. At best you get to cast some spells and swing at enemies.

Warcraft 3 pulls it off, thanks to its much more sensible camera - and even then, more people play Dota than the regular Warcraft 3. It isn't exactly Blizzard's best and/or most popular game.

Actual strategy (ie. diversions, use of terrain, multiple tactics, keeping the enemy on the defensive, map control vs. focused force, rush vs. turtle vs. tech, intelligence, denying intelligence) is nowhere to be seen in games like this. And thanks to the instant gratification tendency of eliminating every RTS element that doesn't involve units beating on each other, there hasn't been a decent RTS since Starcraft.

mocruz1200:
i had bad feelings about this game, now im sure not to get it

get it, I have it and I think its a great game. The RTS parts are good too

Sounds like Halo Wars with more guitars. I lost interest when...OK, I lost interest when I haven't bloody well liked anything else Tim Schafer's ever made. Point-and-click adventures are...well...point-and-click adventures, and Psychonauts was a mediocre platformer that, much like Yahtzee's take on Brütal Legend, had plenty of whiz-bang writing and not enough "game" for my tastes.

I would give $50 of my own money to watch Yahtzee review Mount&Blade. If you were making a game categorically designed for Yahtzee to hate it (and you were otherwise trying to make anyone who isn't Yahtzee find merit in it even if it wasn't their personal cup of tea), that game would have to be pretty near the top of the list, wouldn't it?

As a game, yeah not that amazing. As an experience though, I felt it was the kind of thing that would only be in some Manowar or Symphony X song, which I loved. I agree with the comments about the end being a little stale and I don't know why they didn't use the end boss more as a character especially when he is voiced by Tim Curry!

I thought it was average, but it was indeed something new and fresh in comparison to everything else out lately.

I cant view it now.....or any other video for that matter, I just get a weird error code.... :(

help please

I'm glad he mentioned the umlaut. And i'm also glad that he got an outsider opinion for the genre aspects that he admits he does not know well.

I realli didn't expect it to be a RTS, aswell, as a sandbox game, :S

Thank for the review, Yahtzee, pretty funny with a good amount of information to boot. I still want to play Broo-tal Legend but it's more of a rent the way I see it.

I appreciated the Fight Club reference very much.

This is apparently the place to put this if I want it noticed, what was said in the part of the interview/chat/whatever where the audio is messed up?
While I'm at it, why the refusal to review ODST?
On topic, Tim Schaeffer thought up the character and some of the story and then asked if Jack Black would do it, not expecting him to say yes, nor any of the other big names in it to agree. Just putting that out there. Also the "scavenger hunt" line was very well put-- Tim Schaeffer seems to be fond of games with that element since that mechanic is part of why I didn't really like Psychonauts so I think I'll pass on this one unless it's a gift.

Akalabeth:

Calling it a rant is more indicative of the format rather than being a question of its legitimacy as a review. Personally I only watch Yahtzee for entertainment purposes, but that's true of all reviews I've watched. I used to watch a Canadian show, Reviews on the Run (same guys who do Electronic Playground) and I only watched it for the entertainment value as well. This idea of reviews as entertainment for me holds true especially for Yahtzee's because many of his reviews are for console games and the last console I bought was a Sega Master System. Reviews honestly don't mean much to me, some games which have been universally praised didn't hold my interest for long. Dawn of War 1 foremost among those.

If people want to take his reviews seriously that's their prerogative. How is it any different from taking the advice of a cynical friend? You mention the thing about Motor Forges, well I've not played the game but I can relate to the frustration that some people experience when the game doesn't tell them what to do. A game shouldn't lead a person by the hand but it should give enough information that the player doesn't have to stumble blindly into something. Being stuck at some point and not knowing how to proceed can be nothing short of infuriating.

Yeah, it's pretty much the same. But I would also tell people who listened to a cynical friend that they should make their own opinion on it.

But that's the point. You seriously cannot be stuck when it comes to the Motor Forges, unless you have been sleeping while playing it. You are clearly told that red "devil horn" flowers show something you can raise with the Relic Raiser solo, and the Motor Forges are surrounded by them. You can see the damn flowers from miles away. And then you got the top of the Forge, which is the size of a freakin' minibus.
I can agree with the whole Mt. Rockmore thing though. I had to go online to figure out where to find the place where I can change the heads, but that is just something extra you can do.

So yeah, being stuck sucks, but I cannot see how anyone who can read and understand English can get stuck in this game.
But hey, we both enjoy the videos, so I guess it's all good :P

I'm having a pretty hard time buying this whole "I had no idea there were going to be any RTS elements" line everyone keeps parroting. Especially from people who said they played the demo. You see if you played the demo all the way to the end you would have eventually got this screen.

image

What the hell did you think you were going to be doing? It says right there in big flaming letters that you would be leading an army.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKmZkH2HSPc&feature=player_embedded

Here's a video of the demo that screen was taken from. Starts at 7:20. Seriously. If you played the demo or read any previews of the game there's no way you could have not known there were RTS elements in the game. Hell the escapist even did an article on it.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/93263-Brutal-Legend-Has-4v4-Multiplayer-Skirmish-Mode

Xzi:

malestrithe:
I do not know about your friend, but that is what all RTS were made around. Gather your mates and throw them at the enemies. Even in good RTS you tend to throw enemies until either they die or you do.

Negative. A good RTS places far more emphasis on the "S" as opposed to the "R" and the "T." If all you do is gather as many troops as possible and throw them at the enemy in a game like say, Warcraft 3, then I can guarantee you lose every match against another player.

I have done exactly that in Warcraft 3 against real flesh and blood people who understand how to play the game and I still won. Even with the good RTS, if you can make more troops than your opponents, you will win. It does not matter if it is Command and Conquer, Star Wars: Empire at War, Starcraft, or something like Stormrise, the strategy is just as effective.

Starcraft has a strategy based around making little guys and overwhelming your opponent.

So, Positive, even the good ones have that little problem. I did in Warcraft 3, as have many others. Just because it did not work for you does not mean the strategy is valid.

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