Five Reasons Why The Old Republic Is a Threat to WoW

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I'm looking forward to SW:TOR more than I've looked forward to a game since...well...ever.

Funk's got it right: Bioware is a proven commodity, and KotOR is a proven franchise. And this game is so ambitious that if it's even 3/4 of what it should be, it will still be a gaming experience unlike any that we've ever seen.

"To start off, TOR is sci-fi, not fantasy, which is a huge advantage in itself. "

Funny, I've always seen it as fantasy. We got sword fights "magic" powers, prophecy's and the word destiny is thrown around a lot.

I do love Star Wars, but that's just how I've always seen it.

Tanfastic:
I admit TOR looks awesome and I will be trying it.

But 11 million+ subscribers? You CANT take that many, ever.

Yeah, especially considering how many of that 11 million is in China and Korea, where TOR will in all probability not be marketed. :P Don't be fooled, WoW doesn't have remotely 11mil in North America.

John Funk:
Five Reasons Why The Old Republic Is a Threat to WoW

The reign of a king can't go unchallenged forever.

Read Full Article

I have to ask, do you think these rules can generally apply to the Star Trek online game? Aside from the "EA has money" one. Although does EA really have that much cash? I thought they were losing cash bad overall..?

It sounds incredibly awesome, but I'm guessing there'll be subscription fees...
Shame, I would've bought it but I just can't offord to pay monthly fees for a game. Even one that sounds as good as this...

Subscription fees to play a game that permits me to engage in repetitive mundane tasks, grinding, and obnoxious griefing from others. I just don't see the appeal. I played WoW for a little over 3 years, and you know, after the first year I realized that I was just chasing a dragon. It's the pursuit of nothing, which awaits at the end of a long, miserable, repetitive road. This write your own story bit was what they claimed when UO came out, which, as it turned out, was a thinly veiled way of saying the game had no quests whatsoever.

I'll reserve judgment, but as a WoW oldster, I just don't see myself wanting to go back to that, however redressed it may be.

Doug:

John Funk:
Five Reasons Why The Old Republic Is a Threat to WoW

The reign of a king can't go unchallenged forever.

Read Full Article

I have to ask, do you think these rules can generally apply to the Star Trek online game? Aside from the "EA has money" one. Although does EA really have that much cash? I thought they were losing cash bad overall..?

No. Star Trek isn't as overall popular - especially with modern gamers - as Star Wars, Cryptic doesn't have an existing fanbase of Star Trek games to buoy it as BioWare does with KotOR, and there are no lightsabers.

kementari:

Tanfastic:
I admit TOR looks awesome and I will be trying it.

But 11 million+ subscribers? You CANT take that many, ever.

Yeah, especially considering how many of that 11 million is in China and Korea, where TOR will in all probability not be marketed. :P Don't be fooled, WoW doesn't have remotely 11mil in North America.

Last I heard, it was about a 50/50 split East/West. so 6.5~ in NA and Europe (and Australia).

Be a Sith Funk!
Heh heh heh... Sith Funk. Sounds like a jazz song.

Side note: Is that 00 Raiser for your new avatar?

Heh, this might be the game to finally get me into MMOs. I'm planning on going either Inquisitor or Agent, and start off evil, then get gradually more light, as if my character is having a change of heart. They mentioned Light Side and Dark Side points, I'm making the best of it.

That seems really interesting to me, that you can choose your side, but still change your alignment. Have any other MMOs done that?

John Funk:

kementari:

Tanfastic:
I admit TOR looks awesome and I will be trying it.

But 11 million+ subscribers? You CANT take that many, ever.

Yeah, especially considering how many of that 11 million is in China and Korea, where TOR will in all probability not be marketed. :P Don't be fooled, WoW doesn't have remotely 11mil in North America.

Last I heard, it was about a 50/50 split East/West. so 6.5~ in NA and Europe (and Australia).

That's around what I've heard too, but my point is that a game doesn't have to top 11M to be "a success" - it just has to be profitable. TOR could be profitable with far fewer than even the alleged 6.5, and as long as it's a good game it'll probably suck its own fanbase (Bioware kids and Star Wars fans) out of WoW's bloodstream.

Will that be enough to cripple WoW? Who knows, probably not. Does it really matter, as long as the game is profitable enough to keep from going under? Not in the slightest.

well, i think the thing is that most games, in addition to lacking wows over addictiveness(apparently this is actually the word) many games fail to make somebody want to buy the game and instead make you want to play it, which can give large amounts of free trial accounts but often ultimately result lower player bases.

My main is gonna be a Stih Inquisitor. Can't wait to go around blasting people with my lightning bolts saying "I AM THE SENATE!"

Thank goodness, the gaming world NEEDS a good sci-fi MMORPG. None better to do it than Star Wars, especially KoToR. <3

John Funk:

Doug:

John Funk:
Five Reasons Why The Old Republic Is a Threat to WoW

The reign of a king can't go unchallenged forever.

Read Full Article

I have to ask, do you think these rules can generally apply to the Star Trek online game? Aside from the "EA has money" one. Although does EA really have that much cash? I thought they were losing cash bad overall..?

No. Star Trek isn't as overall popular - especially with modern gamers - as Star Wars, Cryptic doesn't have an existing fanbase of Star Trek games to buoy it as BioWare does with KotOR, and there are no lightsabers.

Well, true, no lightsabres, but phasers, and Klingons - surely that counts for something? ;)

The reboot movie did well...though I suppose your right - the overlap between movie goers and gaming is likely low.

Point #5 is fact of course. That alone gives it an edge over WoW. Can't wait to roll my Sith Warrior come Spring 2011.

I do love BioWare. Seriously, I do.

But this is Star Wars.

I used to love Star Wars. Love it. And then...

...well...

...a lot of people said that Michael Bay killed their childhoods when he put Transformers together. He didn't kill mine.

LUCAS BEAT HIM TO IT.

I'm more interested in Star Trek Online than I am this game. Granted, STO might not pull in the kind of numbers TOR will. But it's still a sci-fi MMO in an established franchise, and from the very start, you get a ship. With phasers, photons, warp speed and all.

BlueInkAlchemist:
I do love BioWare. Seriously, I do.

But this is Star Wars.

I used to love Star Wars. Love it. And then...

...well...

...a lot of people said that Michael Bay killed their childhoods when he put Transformers together. He didn't kill mine.

LUCAS BEAT HIM TO IT.

I'm more interested in Star Trek Online than I am this game. Granted, STO might not pull in the kind of numbers TOR will. But it's still a sci-fi MMO in an established franchise, and from the very start, you get a ship. With phasers, photons, warp speed and all.

But no lightsabers.

I don't think TOR can bring down WoW, but it might be one factor among many that begins the decline of WoW. Ultimately a lot's going to depend on how much lasting value TOR ends up having.

I can't decide between the Smuggler or the Imperial Agent, myself.

ww2jacob:
I don't think TOR can bring down WoW, but it might be one factor among many that begins the decline of WoW. Ultimately a lot's going to depend on how much lasting value TOR ends up having.

I can't decide between the Smuggler or the Imperial Agent, myself.

I am posting way too much in this thread, but does anyone else notice that most of the people saying "Idk, I don't think it'll have much of an impact" are sure to also cite what kind of lightsaber they'll be using? ;)

kementari:

kementari:

John Funk:
John Funk still can't make up his mind about being a Jedi Knight or a Sith Inquisitor.

Jedi Knight, baby. You know all the 13-year-olds are going to approach this game with LOL IM A BADASS SITH LIEK DARTH MAUL.

Republic is gonna be where it's at.

Oh cripes.... Nice perspective with that...

And to think my plans for Darth Rysa'Neser (Name anagrams FTW) would be tottaly ruined by that.

BlueInkAlchemist:

kementari:

Eh, you gotta learn not to let it bother you. My Star Wars universe has no midi-chlorians, Yuuzhan Vong, Jar Jar, General Grievous, Darth Chicken, or younglings. Darth Bane and Grey Jedi, thoroughly codified Force abilities (from the games), and lightwhips are fine, and of course Chiss hold the honor of Greatest Badasses Ever.

Just pick and choose. It's the only way to not go nuts in the post-prequels world.

John Funk:

kementari:

Tanfastic:
I admit TOR looks awesome and I will be trying it.

But 11 million+ subscribers? You CANT take that many, ever.

Yeah, especially considering how many of that 11 million is in China and Korea, where TOR will in all probability not be marketed. :P Don't be fooled, WoW doesn't have remotely 11mil in North America.

Last I heard, it was about a 50/50 split East/West. so 6.5~ in NA and Europe (and Australia).

Wait it's only 50/50? That's a suprise...

But wait... 11 million...

Last time I heard that number was.... 2007.

Should it be approching 15 Mil soon?

P.S Aw... Funk as much as I love 00 Raiser I love Haro just as much... maybe even more...

I was fairly psyched about TOR and the possibilities of a Bioware MMORPG until I heard two things: "phat lewts" and "stealth-based class that can kill Jedi with explosive drones". At that point, I went very quickly from "this could be epic cool" to "F@#% you."

The "phat lewt" comment came from one of TOR's dev team giving the press a run through a segment of the game. http://www.massively.com/2009/06/04/e3-2009-star-wars-the-old-republic-demonstration-part-2/

"How about phat lewts?" The developer asked. "I like MMOs, they give me phat lewts."

They loot the corpse of the Jedi, "As we all know, the only thing better than a lightsaber... is two lightsabers! Especially when one has just come off the corpse of a Jedi you've just punked."

Anyone who talks like this should be slapped vigorously and not let anywhere near a Star Wars MMO. Aside from an apparent lack of respect for the source material, it suggests an extremely simplistic view of what people want out of an MMO and an utter lack of appreciation for the strengths and weaknesses of the KOTOR line. "Lewt", in KOTOR, quite frankly, has always been the weakest portion of the game, full of vague references to distant ancestors of well-known Star Wars canon characters that never add up to much more than a few stat bonuses. If you can battle a Jedi and come out of the experience with nothing more than "Ooo! I punked him and stole his lightsaber!" You're doing it wrong.

The existence of the Imperial Agent, the "stealth character who kills other characters with explosives before they get a chance to fight back"- and more specifically, the "stealth character ONE SIDE gets who kills others with explosives before they get a chance to fight back" brings back all my worst experiences with PvP in City of Heroes. There are people on the forums for that game who say, without a trace of awareness of how ridiculous it sounds, that if you just hold down the jump key _all the time_ you're in a PvP zone, the Stalker class mostly won't be able to hit you. If you have a class that exists mostly to kill other player characters- who has a significant advantage in doing so- who makes other players have to play entirely differently simply because of their existence, and their existence alone- And especially if that class exists on only one side, and has no apparent nemesis on the opposite- you're doing it wrong.

I don't doubt TOR will do fine. But courtesy of their own stupid PR, they're going to have to do it without me.

I think I'll pass on this one. Half of the classes being laser sword wielding magic men? It would be mighty weird playing as the only Trooper.

Callate:

Anyone who talks like this should be slapped vigorously and not let anywhere near a Star Wars MMO. Aside from an apparent lack of respect for the source material, it suggests an extremely simplistic view of what people want out of an MMO and an utter lack of appreciation for the strengths and weaknesses of the KOTOR line.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but maybe it's not an MMO you want. Your apparent aversion to loot and PvP suggests maybe you should just stay with the single-player genre.

Personally, I don't find anything wrong with this scenario, from either a development or in-world perspective. You think Sith didn't collect the lightsabers of the Jedi they'd killed as trophies? You think Jedi didn't take the Sith lightsabers back to the Temple for study? How else do you think the holocrons got all that information?

Frankly, "punked" is precisely the word I imagine most Sith players will use to describe what they just did to Jedi players. And aside from its obvious real-world slang, it's a sentiment that fits the Bane lineage of Sith perfectly.

BrotherhoodOfSteel:

John Funk:

kementari:

Tanfastic:
I admit TOR looks awesome and I will be trying it.

But 11 million+ subscribers? You CANT take that many, ever.

Yeah, especially considering how many of that 11 million is in China and Korea, where TOR will in all probability not be marketed. :P Don't be fooled, WoW doesn't have remotely 11mil in North America.

Last I heard, it was about a 50/50 split East/West. so 6.5~ in NA and Europe (and Australia).

Wait it's only 50/50? That's a suprise...

But wait... 11 million...

Last time I heard that number was.... 2007.

Should it be approching 15 Mil soon?

P.S Aw... Funk as much as I love 00 Raiser I love Haro just as much... maybe even more...

The curve definitely slowed down, last figure I heard was ~12, so it seems to have plateaued.

And I might change it back. I might not!

EA also forced Warhammer out the door way too early. I'm not holding my breath for this one.

They also have to top two other problems:
1) People to get to max level in wow give up a lot of time and effort - to give that up it has to be special
2) Subscription games are more expensive over the long run than single cost games - therefore most people have only one or two subscription games so the market is limited.

Thus, it becomes one or the other, and so it has to not just be better - but be better enough that people anticipate it will be worth loosing hundreds of hours of work on wow for.

For the record I think I will drop wow for it though...

to the thread title:I say THANK GOD!!!!!! I hate WoW with every fiber of my being and it is my hope that the after Old Republic launches WoW suffers a massive number of cancellations of subscriptions to the game.

madmatt:
They also have to top two other problems:
1) People to get to max level in wow give up a lot of time and effort - to give that up it has to be special
2) Subscription games are more expensive over the long run than single cost games - therefore most people have only one or two subscription games so the market is limited.

Thus, it becomes one or the other, and so it has to not just be better - but be better enough that people anticipate it will be worth loosing hundreds of hours of work on wow for.

For the record I think I will drop wow for it though...

I actually substantially disagree with you on Point 2. For the amount of playtime you get out of a MMOG, it's worth WAY more time-per-dollar than any other game.

I play WoW extremely casually these days, with only two or so nights of raiding for ~3 hours a piece per week. That's 24 hours a month, for $12. $0.50 an hour - and considering that Darksiders cost me $60 and I got 15 hours of play out of it? Yeah, WoW's cheaper.

AgDr_ODST:
to the thread title:I say THANK GOD!!!!!! I hate WoW with every fiber of my being and it is my hope that the after Old Republic launches WoW suffers a massive number of cancellations of subscriptions to the game.

It might. That's the purpose of these two articles to explore the pros and cons ;)

I should post a new topic.

"Five reasons why WoW is a thread to your love/social life"

*raises hand* Umm.. hate to break it to you, but not everyone's a Star Wars fan. Personally, I don't care about SW at all.

Does that mean I won't at least try TOR? Definitely not, but for me I'm relying on it actually being a good all around game with a good community. Whooshing lightsabers are actually more likely to turn me off of the game than turn me on to it as a game with nothing but Jedi/Sith players will not make it cool, it will make it boring.

I'm also concerned about the focus on storyline and RP. I love a story dedicated game, but if you focus too much on story in an MMO you're going to run into problems with the unavoidable fact that *ahem* you're not the only guy that just went on a super secret mission to planet X to save person Y. In actuality, everyone has done it. And what about that last mission you did that had a patented moral choice in it? Uh oh.. your buddy picked something completely different there so now is the game going to completely ignore that or will the system somehow (and I don't know how without it breaking everything) mend everything together so that it all makes sense.

Basically, for me the jury is still out on whether TOR will be a good game or not, and I value that more than whether it beats WoW or not. (*spoiler warning* it won't)

John Funk:
Five Reasons Why The Old Republic Is a Threat to WoW

The reign of a king can't go unchallenged forever.

Read Full Article

Hey Funk,You stated in your first pharagraph how These MMO's usually work, but do you think that in the near futur that games like TOR and AION could hit WoW's fanbase pretty hardthat they would eventully lose alot of their subscribers and then there would be a ruler less perioud, Sorta like how when Rome fell and then the fudal ages began, would it be possible to see that happen with the MMO game types?

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