Darksiders

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A lot of amateur character designs make this mistake- they go for what "looks cool" or "hardcore" and forget about "flow". Interesting character design will tell a story about the character- where he's been, what he does, how he views himself and the world. War, on the other hand, looks like the following conversation took place:

Boss: "Alright, gentlemen, we need to create the personification of conflict here. What stylistic angle should we take here?"
Employee A: "Well, we have a lot of room for expression here, how about a very physically-strong medival-themed character, worn down over the ages, face set with the sureity of purpose yet showing the conflict of his juxtaposition- a being who is the essence of strife, seeking to mend what came about from his very own actions."
Employee B: "Dude, you are SUCH an English major. Boss, we need to pile armor on this guy. Lots of armor! With, like, faces and stuff. And make it, like, mismatched, because he just doesn't care, you know? He's WAR. And a huge sword, because everyone knows you're an asskicker when you carry around a sword bigger than an airplane wing. And give him a hood so he's all shadowed and mysterious."
Boss: "We'll go with that! It'll be a hit with the kids."

s69-5:

The Great JT:
By the look of things, Joe Madureira has been taking "art" lessons from Rob Liefeld.

Oh Snap!
Liefeld is the worst comic book artist to have ever been given a major comic book contract.

That picture is so unutterably horrible that it's a wonder I haven't had nightmares about it yet.

Has anyone here seen the Abyssal Armor set War can get in the game? Anyone?

It looks far better and it flows together much better.

The Rogue Wolf:
A lot of amateur character designs make this mistake- they go for what "looks cool" or "hardcore" and forget about "flow". Interesting character design will tell a story about the character- where he's been, what he does, how he views himself and the world. War, on the other hand, looks like the following conversation took place:

Boss: "Alright, gentlemen, we need to create the personification of conflict here. What stylistic angle should we take here?"
Employee A: "Well, we have a lot of room for expression here, how about a very physically-strong medival-themed character, worn down over the ages, face set with the sureity of purpose yet showing the conflict of his juxtaposition- a being who is the essence of strife, seeking to mend what came about from his very own actions."
Employee B: "Dude, you are SUCH an English major. Boss, we need to pile armor on this guy. Lots of armor! With, like, faces and stuff. And make it, like, mismatched, because he just doesn't care, you know? He's WAR. And a huge sword, because everyone knows you're an asskicker when you carry around a sword bigger than an airplane wing. And give him a hood so he's all shadowed and mysterious."
Boss: "We'll go with that! It'll be a hit with the kids."

s69-5:

The Great JT:
By the look of things, Joe Madureira has been taking "art" lessons from Rob Liefeld.

Oh Snap!
Liefeld is the worst comic book artist to have ever been given a major comic book contract.

That picture is so unutterably horrible that it's a wonder I haven't had nightmares about it yet.

Wow... just... that picture is physically impossible. No ones chest can extend that far out, even after years upon years of intense weight lifting. Look up Marcus Ruhl. That dude is huge and his chest isn't even that huge.

Perhaps Valve got it right, but I hesitate to say perfect.
I don't think anyone deserves that kind of praise, even them, with all of their skill and wonderfulness.

The character (War, that is) does come across as some what of an enigma to me.
Why's he got screaming souls all over his armour?
Why does his sword look like an angry man has been frozen by Darth Vader and pressed into a sword?

Over all, I think he might have worked out better as an entirley inhuman character.
After all, why would angels, humans and a being of ultimate carnage all look roughly the same?

Surely he would be some kind of being comprised of energies pulled from the universe, pure and innocent in that his one purpose is to follow orders?
He actually does look like a mash of Chritian cliches about demonic/apocalyptic entities at this point in time and that makes me sad, because he could've been a lot more.

I love that armor....

I tend to like intricately detailed designs (like some of H. R. Giger or Yoshitaka Amano's art), but in this case I do wish that War looked a bit simpler in order to look better at the distance you're usually seeing him and had much more of a consistent motif and color scheme. The only part I like unreservedly is his big hand, because I like big metal hands with lots of moving parts (they appeal to my love of both anatomy and machinery, especially of the clockwork variety).

Not that it matters, but his big hand is asymetrical because it's artificial. War was being an idiot and breaking things, so Death cut his hand off and War had to get a new one. This was in the book that came with the preorder and is essentially useless trivia except for maybe making war look a little silly (although I suppose the point of this thread is that he already does).

I should probably have this "Yahtzee Intro to Character Design" printed and taped to my desk. Nice little reminder of keeping things basic, but also using symbolism.

Also, I have a Twitter too. Really has no point, unless you're super cool and famous.

orangeapples:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/5/54/SOLDIER_1ST_FF7.jpg

I guess I was wrong, SOLDIER 1st CLASS units used lances.

Isn't it just an oddly shaped sword?

I'm pretty sure the SOLDIER 3rd CLASS used the same weapons, and I do recall that they wielded them as if they were swords.

clusterfuck gear can work in certain situations. in world of warcraft you know what each piece of your stupid outfit is, where you got it, and why you have it on. in an mmo that shit works because it's trophies, memories, and decisions. in a linear action game it's just "cuz i thought it was cool"

Also everyone check out this guy's blog, entire thing is dedicated to the same subject and explores it more thoroughly.
http://designreboot.blogspot.com/

Very good points. I suppose I could play devil's advocate here and go on about how War is thousands of years old and all that crap could have some meaning, but that design is just too much.

I won't join twitter for you though. Not you, not Mythbusters, not even Eddie Izzard will get me to join.

I was hoping they would make war not human or maybe a demi-human. The horsemen should be taken allegorically, war as in the idea of war. It's not one physical thing, but it is SOMEthing.

Tharticus:
Pretty much games that feature manly, badass character features is a 14 year old definition of a bad ass.

Just... yes.

Shamanic Rhythm:

ostro-whiskey:
Lol, I found this pretty amusing. It sounds like an attempt made by Yahtzee to try an justify his comments on design, but the fact that he tries to comment on the PRACTICALITY of a FANTASY character just makes him look stupid.

Fantasy requires a suspension of disbelief, does anyone ask why in Tolkiens Lord of the Rings world that in 3000 years people are still running around with medieval weaponry. The same goes with Warhammer 40k, and I suppose Darksiders.

For a man who got a bookdeal Yahtzee doesnt seem to be able to detract from a shallow aesthetic value, maybe he should look into it.

You're missing the point. In fantasy you do rely on suspension of disbelief, but that's created by symbolically linking the concepts of the fantasy world with concepts from our own. In the case of Warhammer 40k, for instance, the Space Marines continue to use swords because they're being associated with historical factions such as the Knights Templar. The point Yahtzee is making here is that the symbolic concepts (assuming they are intentional, and the guy didn't simply draw randomly) behind War's character design are too incoherent and varied to present a clear picture to the audience.
Fantasy isn't simply a license to do whatever you like and be justified in doing so. What you are thinking of is postmodernism ;)

Oh contraire, In Warhammer many parties have resorted to melee combat for whatever reason, so that is why it makes sense. I dont see any "symbolic contents" it seems to like like you're just trying to be conceited. Again you try to say that something in which you have claims is "incoherent and varied", you clearly do not realize the stupididty in this, as I have already pointed out that you have no standing to be able to make such a claim. Perhaps you need to choose your words more carefully.

I never said Fantasy is a liscence to do whatever you want, you are putting words in my mouth, I said the concept behind trying to find fault in the design and practicality of items in a Fantasy world is absolutely stupid.

Parallel Streaks:

ostro-whiskey:

ahpuch:
Good Article. For me the look of War was so over the top silly that I wrote the game off as childish crap. Having read the review by John Funk I would consider getting it now if it came out for the PC but that is despite the stupid look of war and not because of it.

ostro-whiskey:
Lol, I found this pretty amusing. It sounds like an attempt made by Yahtzee to try an justify his comments on design, but the fact that he tries to comment on the PRACTICALITY of a FANTASY character just makes him look stupid.

Fantasy requires a suspension of disbelief, does anyone ask why in Tolkiens Lord of the Rings world that in 3000 years people are still running around with medieval weaponry. The same goes with Warhammer 40k, and I suppose Darksiders.

Ummm, no. Fantasy does not give one a pass on practicality or rationality. That is just lazy.

It obviously cant be something absolutely spurious that makes no sense in any reality, but you are just trying to be a smart ass by saying thats what Im claiming. What Im claiming is you cant claim to know how armor or weaponry functions in a fantasy world with magic and demons and bs.

As such your an imbecile for trying to base your dislike of it on practicality.

Don't use the word imbecile dear, it makes you sound like a cartoon scientist.

While suspension of disbelief can be used to explain away the supposed practicality of the armour, it can't wave away the fact that the armour isn't practical from a design stand-point. It's convoluted, hard to animate and render, indistinguishable from the common enemies when in a huddle, and is not overall aesthetically pleasing. At least, to me anyway.

OT: I agree.

And had Yahtzee simply claimed that the armor is ridiculous from a technical point of view I wouldnt have said anything, but as usual he cant stop himself from trying to look like an over qualified smartass.
Ill use whatever word I want consarnit.

I think the character design is a bit ridiculous, but I can't help but enjoy the game play its like Zelda, but more kick ass since they added the violence from God of war. If you have ever wanted more blood in Zelda or a God of War game without the shittiest camera angles in game history then you should try Darksiders.

I keep seeing people trying to make the excuse for War having the complicated design because "He's the embodiment of War", but take a look at Kratos in his War armor.

image

He became a GOD of WAR, and his armor is surprisingly simplistic. Sure it's still very detailed, but compare it to the horseman War and you'd think that Kratos was still wearing just the skirt and sandals he had from his first game. Kratos is stylin' in that armor, War just seems to have slapped on whatever he thought looked cool.

There was so much bull shit and confusion in reading and looking at the description of War I gave up. I couldnt keep track of what was what. Not Yahtzee's fault. That's just the only way to describe a terrible character.

While I do agree with the idea of trimming back the design some would have made the character more believable I would also like to point out that this is a character with inspiration from a fictional story. (and before I get bashed for saying anything about the bible go read the old testament first. Nothing to do with 4 horseman or an Antichrist or anything like that.) Sense when in the realm of fiction dose it say everything that is fake must be real? if War is truly a being of some greater power then is it not feasible that he would wear armor like what is in the game and wield a sword the same height as him? Hell Cloud and Sepieroth did it in FF VII and everybody gets all upset when ever you say "it is impossible to use a sword like that". War is NOT human. Let me repeat that...WAR IS NOT HUMAN. if the story about the 4 horseman were true, Do you think this living incarnation of man greatest threat to itself would just look like some schmuck walking down the street? HELL NO! He would look similar to what he looked like in Darksiders. If it even resembled a man at all. I am getting tired of people saying he doesn't look real. Then what in the hell is he supposed to look like? Break out of this narrow minded way of thinking that all game characters should be believable looking. Just to name a few that look nothing like real people: Lara croft, Mario, Samus aran, Kirby, Kratos, Jak, Crash bandicoot. If you want realism go play Modern warfare 2 and leave those of us who know that games are not real and should be designed that way alone.

ostro-whiskey:

Oh contraire, In Warhammer many parties have resorted to melee combat for whatever reason, so that is why it makes sense. I dont see any "symbolic contents" it seems to like like you're just trying to be conceited. Again you try to say that something in which you have claims is "incoherent and varied", you clearly do not realize the stupididty in this, as I have already pointed out that you have no standing to be able to make such a claim. Perhaps you need to choose your words more carefully.

I never said Fantasy is a liscence to do whatever you want, you are putting words in my mouth, I said the concept behind trying to find fault in the design and practicality of items in a Fantasy world is absolutely stupid.

I'm guessing since you're not down with the whole symbolism thing, you're also not too good with irony.

It is not at all stupid to criticise the practicality of fantasy. You only achieve willing suspension of disbelief if you have coherent logic behind the fantastical concepts you introduce into the world. In literature, a plot resolution achieved through an external device is known as "deus ex machina", and it tends to alienate readers because if you establish boundaries with logical limits, you're expected to stay within them for a resolution. The same principle applies to the practicality of fantasy designs. If we see characters fighting with swords, we expect primitive combat governed by the laws of physics. If you break something like this and create a justification for it that doesn't fit coherently into the overall tenor of your fantasy world, it makes it harder for audiences to willingly suspend disbelief.

Myster XIII:
WALLOFTEXT

What is it with Yahtzee threads where half the posters say the exact same thing that doesn't actually have anything to do with the article?

The problem with War's design is that it's ugly, silly, thoughtless, and most importantly, is difficult to locate in an on-screen clusterfuck. Who asked it to be "realistic"?

I think War's design was based around the fact that hoods look badass. Then after the hood, they just didn't stop.
I've always thought that a character design is best when it can be a complete silloutte, and you'll still be able to tell who it is.

I'm not sure it's a matter of believeability, just a matter of too much design. Alot of stuff on a character can look good occasionally, but War does have something off, maybe it's his long hair, maybe he's possessing a Sephiroth style. Why would you want to hide that?
Or possibly it's the shade of red, it's fairly reddish-pink.

I also have to admit, I had never seen the character before and I chalked yahtzee's description up to hyperbole, but once I hit "page 2" I simply laughed for 7 minutes.

I feel sorry for the people who's paychecks were dependent upon successfully rendering and animating that monstrosity.

Its also funny watching people argue about suspension of disbelief. One side always thinks its a blanket excuse for anything stupid in a fantasy setting (as they have just learned of the concept), while the smart person always gets stuck slamming their head against a wall.

Fronzel:

Myster XIII:
WALLOFTEXT

What is it with Yahtzee threads where half the posters say the exact same thing that doesn't actually have anything to do with the article?

The problem with War's design is that it's ugly, silly, thoughtless, and most importantly, is difficult to locate in an on-screen clusterfuck. Who asked it to be "realistic"?

I just voiced my opinion. I was simply offering a rebuttal to his opinion of the game. Am I out to change his mind? No. Nor would I want to. He is his own man. I was just trying to bring a bit of rationael to the forum. Snowball's chance in hell, I know. And I had no trouble finding him on the screen when the fighting got chaotic. Maybe you should have your eyes checked.

Myster XIII:

Fronzel:

Myster XIII:
WALLOFTEXT

What is it with Yahtzee threads where half the posters say the exact same thing that doesn't actually have anything to do with the article?

The problem with War's design is that it's ugly, silly, thoughtless, and most importantly, is difficult to locate in an on-screen clusterfuck. Who asked it to be "realistic"?

I just voiced my opinion. I was simply offering a rebuttal to his opinion of the game. Am I out to change his mind? No. Nor would I want to. He is his own man. I was just trying to bring a bit of rationael to the forum. Snowball's chance in hell, I know. And I had no trouble finding him on the screen when the fighting got chaotic. Maybe you should have your eyes checked.

If you mean an irrational rationale then you sure succeeded. The exact opposite argument can be made using your "logic". This opposite argument is also what helps people suspend disbelief as others have said.

This article givs me two types of reactions. One is agreement on TF2 character design. It's perfect, one of the best designs for a video game ever.

However the War thing... you're overanalyzing it. By a mile. I look at War, what do I see? A big, burly juggernaut-type dude with a huge sword and a powerfist (yes, it's a goddamn powerfist, THAT'S why it is so big). I have no doubts - if this guy landed on Earth, apocalypse would go down and no one would be able to stop this armored mass of destruction. He isn't supposed to take off his armor ever, why would the Horseman of Apocalypse ever do so? I imagine them being in stasis or something, waiting for their day to come, rather than sitting on their couch, drinking beer and watching reality TV, in which case their armor would indeed be impractical. But they don't. They are living weapons, nothing more. The bigger morality damage such weapon can inflict on the enemy, the more effect it has. I'd personally shit my pants when a guy like this trucked at me.

Oh my, I understood the character just by looking at him. Mission accomplished, no?

Really, Yahtzee is nitpicking. The game is SUPPOSED to be over the top comic book inspired fantasy. Will you rip on DMC and Bayonetta for their designs too? You sure could, but would that serve any purpose in games that are meant to be over the top in every way? The same thing is with nitpicking W40k. It's meant to be over the top, it's not meant to be taken very seriously, it's like that for the sake of fun. Also, the Space Marines use swords along with bolters not because they are supposed to be somewhat knightly, but moreso because it is more efficient when fighting foes that favor melee (which there are a metric ton in 40k).

You know, isn't there a reason why there are art galleries along with comic book stores, and not just one of them? Because people like variety. Variety is good. I can enjoy a well designed and practical looking characters like the TF2 cast (then again, they are just humans that have somewhat normal lives outside their mercenary work, so it's hardly a wonder that they look practical) just as much as I can enjoy an over the top masculine comic book powerfantasy such as Darksiders. Variety is the spice of life.

Eversor:
This article givs me two types of reactions. One is agreement on TF2 character design. It's perfect, one of the best designs for a video game ever.

However the War thing... you're overanalyzing it. By a mile. I look at War, what do I see? A big, burly juggernaut-type dude with a huge sword and a powerfist (yes, it's a goddamn powerfist, THAT'S why it is so big). I have no doubts - if this guy landed on Earth, apocalypse would go down and no one would be able to stop this armored mass of destruction. He isn't supposed to take off his armor ever, why would the Horseman of Apocalypse ever do so? I imagine them being in stasis or something, waiting for their day to come, rather than sitting on their couch, drinking beer and watching reality TV, in which case their armor would indeed be impractical. But they don't. They are living weapons, nothing more. The bigger morality damage such weapon can inflict on the enemy, the more effect it has. I'd personally shit my pants when a guy like this trucked at me.

Oh my, I understood the character just by looking at him. Mission accomplished, no?

Really, Yahtzee is nitpicking. The game is SUPPOSED to be over the top comic book inspired fantasy. Will you rip on DMC and Bayonetta for their designs too? You sure could, but would that serve any purpose in games that are meant to be over the top in every way? The same thing is with nitpicking W40k. It's meant to be over the top, it's not meant to be taken very seriously, it's like that for the sake of fun. Also, the Space Marines use swords along with bolters not because they are supposed to be somewhat knightly, but moreso because it is more efficient when fighting foes that favor melee (which there are a metric ton in 40k).

You know, isn't there a reason why there are art galleries along with comic book stores, and not just one of them? Because people like variety. Variety is good. I can enjoy a well designed and practical looking characters like the TF2 cast (then again, they are just humans that have somewhat normal lives outside their mercenary work, so it's hardly a wonder that they look practical) just as much as I can enjoy an over the top masculine comic book powerfantasy such as Darksiders. Variety is the spice of life.

I don't think it is over analyzing things to say that War looks like a complete idiot. I'm having trouble even understanding why people argue that he wouldn't take off his armor when you could easily say that he doesn't even need his armor to begin with. Berserk has better armor designs than this game because the artist knows when to stop drawing. http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/berserk/images/b/be/Berserker03.jpg (Not the best shot but I couldn't find anything bigger.)

Bayonetta's head is improperly proportioned which ends up making her look weird. Even the dev team for the game by Kamiya's own admission favored Jeanne (Whose head more closely matches her body.) over Bayonetta.

Shamanic Rhythm:

ostro-whiskey:

Oh contraire, In Warhammer many parties have resorted to melee combat for whatever reason, so that is why it makes sense. I dont see any "symbolic contents" it seems to like like you're just trying to be conceited. Again you try to say that something in which you have claims is "incoherent and varied", you clearly do not realize the stupididty in this, as I have already pointed out that you have no standing to be able to make such a claim. Perhaps you need to choose your words more carefully.

I never said Fantasy is a liscence to do whatever you want, you are putting words in my mouth, I said the concept behind trying to find fault in the design and practicality of items in a Fantasy world is absolutely stupid.

I'm guessing since you're not down with the whole symbolism thing, you're also not too good with irony.

It is not at all stupid to criticise the practicality of fantasy. You only achieve willing suspension of disbelief if you have coherent logic behind the fantastical concepts you introduce into the world. In literature, a plot resolution achieved through an external device is known as "deus ex machina", and it tends to alienate readers because if you establish boundaries with logical limits, you're expected to stay within them for a resolution. The same principle applies to the practicality of fantasy designs. If we see characters fighting with swords, we expect primitive combat governed by the laws of physics. If you break something like this and create a justification for it that doesn't fit coherently into the overall tenor of your fantasy world, it makes it harder for audiences to willingly suspend disbelief.

How can you claim to know the logic behind a fantasy concept. The fact that it is fantasy is indicative that our logic does not comply. We can safely assume that the guy from Darksiders is closer to a robot than a human, therefore you point is, once again, idiotic. You have yet to clarify what you meant by the "symbolic contents" of the armor, ofcoure its quite likely you were just talking out of your ass.

ostro-whiskey:

Shamanic Rhythm:

ostro-whiskey:

Oh contraire, In Warhammer many parties have resorted to melee combat for whatever reason, so that is why it makes sense. I dont see any "symbolic contents" it seems to like like you're just trying to be conceited. Again you try to say that something in which you have claims is "incoherent and varied", you clearly do not realize the stupididty in this, as I have already pointed out that you have no standing to be able to make such a claim. Perhaps you need to choose your words more carefully.

I never said Fantasy is a liscence to do whatever you want, you are putting words in my mouth, I said the concept behind trying to find fault in the design and practicality of items in a Fantasy world is absolutely stupid.

I'm guessing since you're not down with the whole symbolism thing, you're also not too good with irony.

It is not at all stupid to criticise the practicality of fantasy. You only achieve willing suspension of disbelief if you have coherent logic behind the fantastical concepts you introduce into the world. In literature, a plot resolution achieved through an external device is known as "deus ex machina", and it tends to alienate readers because if you establish boundaries with logical limits, you're expected to stay within them for a resolution. The same principle applies to the practicality of fantasy designs. If we see characters fighting with swords, we expect primitive combat governed by the laws of physics. If you break something like this and create a justification for it that doesn't fit coherently into the overall tenor of your fantasy world, it makes it harder for audiences to willingly suspend disbelief.

How can you claim to know the logic behind a fantasy concept. The fact that it is fantasy is indicative that our logic does not comply. We can safely assume that the guy from Darksiders is closer to a robot than a human, therefore you point is, once again, idiotic. You have yet to clarify what you meant by the "symbolic contents" of the armor, ofcoure its quite likely you were just talking out of your ass.

Uhh there is logic in every single fantasy story that there is. Only a fool tries to argue that our logic does not apply when our logic is applied to these worlds all the time.

s69-5:

The Great JT:
By the look of things, Joe Madureira has been taking "art" lessons from Rob Liefeld.

Oh Snap!
Liefeld is the worst comic book artist to have ever been given a major comic book contract.

I think that comparison might be more than a joke.

I quite enjoyed this extra punctuation.
Maybe War's outfit comes from not being able to decide which armour he likes best out of all the wars there have been. loser

shadow skill:
I don't think it is over analyzing things to say that War looks like a complete idiot. I'm having trouble even understanding why people argue that he wouldn't take off his armor when you could easily say that he doesn't even need his armor to begin with. Berserk has better armor designs than this game because the artist knows when to stop drawing. http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/berserk/images/b/be/Berserker03.jpg (Not the best shot but I couldn't find anything bigger.)

Bayonetta's head is improperly proportioned which ends up making her look weird. Even the dev team for the game by Kamiya's own admission favored Jeanne (Whose head more closely matches her body.) over Bayonetta.

That design is dependent entirely on personal preference. I can't tell what exactly is that thing supposed to be in that picture. Is that a minion? A main villain? The antihero or hero? A statue? I honestly can't tell. What I can tell is that it's someone in a platemail suit. That's about it. Is it better than War? Eye of the Beholder, man. To me, it looks lacking, plain and rather fragile without any knowledge on the subject matter it is taken from.

As for Bayonetta, my comparison is more for the overall design, not the design of the specific character. That game has quite some extraordinary stuff going around everywhere, which sets the tone for the game and adds to the atmosphere. You take the main character out of it and throw her in, say, Modern Warfare 2 and it will be so out of place it's not even funny. While in Bayonetta, it works, because the entire game is supposed to be with extraordinary style, eccentric moves and piles of sexual innuendo. When you take something like that apart outside it's world, of course it will seem silly.

ostro-whiskey:

Parallel Streaks:

ostro-whiskey:

ahpuch:
Good Article. For me the look of War was so over the top silly that I wrote the game off as childish crap. Having read the review by John Funk I would consider getting it now if it came out for the PC but that is despite the stupid look of war and not because of it.

ostro-whiskey:
Lol, I found this pretty amusing. It sounds like an attempt made by Yahtzee to try an justify his comments on design, but the fact that he tries to comment on the PRACTICALITY of a FANTASY character just makes him look stupid.

Fantasy requires a suspension of disbelief, does anyone ask why in Tolkiens Lord of the Rings world that in 3000 years people are still running around with medieval weaponry. The same goes with Warhammer 40k, and I suppose Darksiders.

Ummm, no. Fantasy does not give one a pass on practicality or rationality. That is just lazy.

It obviously cant be something absolutely spurious that makes no sense in any reality, but you are just trying to be a smart ass by saying thats what Im claiming. What Im claiming is you cant claim to know how armor or weaponry functions in a fantasy world with magic and demons and bs.

As such your an imbecile for trying to base your dislike of it on practicality.

Don't use the word imbecile dear, it makes you sound like a cartoon scientist.

While suspension of disbelief can be used to explain away the supposed practicality of the armour, it can't wave away the fact that the armour isn't practical from a design stand-point. It's convoluted, hard to animate and render, indistinguishable from the common enemies when in a huddle, and is not overall aesthetically pleasing. At least, to me anyway.

OT: I agree.

And had Yahtzee simply claimed that the armor is ridiculous from a technical point of view I wouldnt have said anything, but as usual he cant stop himself from trying to look like an over qualified smartass.
Ill use whatever word I want consarnit.

You seem to harbor resentment to old Ben, did he hurt you?

shadow skill:

ostro-whiskey:

Shamanic Rhythm:

ostro-whiskey:

Oh contraire, In Warhammer many parties have resorted to melee combat for whatever reason, so that is why it makes sense. I dont see any "symbolic contents" it seems to like like you're just trying to be conceited. Again you try to say that something in which you have claims is "incoherent and varied", you clearly do not realize the stupididty in this, as I have already pointed out that you have no standing to be able to make such a claim. Perhaps you need to choose your words more carefully.

I never said Fantasy is a liscence to do whatever you want, you are putting words in my mouth, I said the concept behind trying to find fault in the design and practicality of items in a Fantasy world is absolutely stupid.

I'm guessing since you're not down with the whole symbolism thing, you're also not too good with irony.

It is not at all stupid to criticise the practicality of fantasy. You only achieve willing suspension of disbelief if you have coherent logic behind the fantastical concepts you introduce into the world. In literature, a plot resolution achieved through an external device is known as "deus ex machina", and it tends to alienate readers because if you establish boundaries with logical limits, you're expected to stay within them for a resolution. The same principle applies to the practicality of fantasy designs. If we see characters fighting with swords, we expect primitive combat governed by the laws of physics. If you break something like this and create a justification for it that doesn't fit coherently into the overall tenor of your fantasy world, it makes it harder for audiences to willingly suspend disbelief.

How can you claim to know the logic behind a fantasy concept. The fact that it is fantasy is indicative that our logic does not comply. We can safely assume that the guy from Darksiders is closer to a robot than a human, therefore you point is, once again, idiotic. You have yet to clarify what you meant by the "symbolic contents" of the armor, ofcoure its quite likely you were just talking out of your ass.

Uhh there is logic in every single fantasy story that there is. Only a fool tries to argue that our logic does not apply when our logic is applied to these worlds all the time.

Ohh, you must be referring to the logic of magic, and midichlorians. Lets not forget the logic of monsters and the supernatural. Nice one douchebag.

I'm not yahtzee's friend?! D:

ostro-whiskey:

shadow skill:

ostro-whiskey:

Shamanic Rhythm:

ostro-whiskey:

Oh contraire, In Warhammer many parties have resorted to melee combat for whatever reason, so that is why it makes sense. I dont see any "symbolic contents" it seems to like like you're just trying to be conceited. Again you try to say that something in which you have claims is "incoherent and varied", you clearly do not realize the stupididty in this, as I have already pointed out that you have no standing to be able to make such a claim. Perhaps you need to choose your words more carefully.

I never said Fantasy is a liscence to do whatever you want, you are putting words in my mouth, I said the concept behind trying to find fault in the design and practicality of items in a Fantasy world is absolutely stupid.

I'm guessing since you're not down with the whole symbolism thing, you're also not too good with irony.

It is not at all stupid to criticise the practicality of fantasy. You only achieve willing suspension of disbelief if you have coherent logic behind the fantastical concepts you introduce into the world. In literature, a plot resolution achieved through an external device is known as "deus ex machina", and it tends to alienate readers because if you establish boundaries with logical limits, you're expected to stay within them for a resolution. The same principle applies to the practicality of fantasy designs. If we see characters fighting with swords, we expect primitive combat governed by the laws of physics. If you break something like this and create a justification for it that doesn't fit coherently into the overall tenor of your fantasy world, it makes it harder for audiences to willingly suspend disbelief.

How can you claim to know the logic behind a fantasy concept. The fact that it is fantasy is indicative that our logic does not comply. We can safely assume that the guy from Darksiders is closer to a robot than a human, therefore you point is, once again, idiotic. You have yet to clarify what you meant by the "symbolic contents" of the armor, ofcoure its quite likely you were just talking out of your ass.

Uhh there is logic in every single fantasy story that there is. Only a fool tries to argue that our logic does not apply when our logic is applied to these worlds all the time.

Ohh, you must be referring to the logic of magic, and midichlorians. Lets not forget the logic of monsters and the supernatural. Nice one douchebag.

logic doesn't have to be realistic. Logic is just a set of rules that apply to a setting.

ostro-whisky, let me just say that insulting people does not do your cause any good, in fact, it makes me more biased against you. but if i return to your original arguement, i would have to say that i disagree, reguardless of the effect your attacks on people have had on me. practicality is important in fantasy even with suspense of disbelief, as it adds to immersion, a person will be more willing to accept the "impossible" if they can see some sense of purpose and reason.

(I also have a question. Does fantasy NEED a suspension of disbelief? i have seen authors manipulate my disbelief to further plot lines and so i question the notion. then again, i hear the term thrown around so often that i believe it is an accepted fact. perhaps i am just lacking clarification?)

EDIT: not having played the game, if i were to picture who i thought war was, it wouldn't be crazily large amounts of armour, it would be just the right amount of practical armour, big piles of needless armour just sounds like trying to impress someone and i can't really see how war would feel so dependent on other peoples goodwill.

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