Reliable Source: Being a Gamer-Gurrrl is hard.

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Fitting story for international women's day.

Hehehe... Cox.

OH RIGHT nice read, very funny. If it were true, it would be awesome.

Im just gonna go with 'lulz' on this one.
Keep em coming.

You got that guy fired? He was a dick, but surely didn't deserve that. Not cool.

You got (admittedly quite a few) sexist and downright disgusting emails, and you got him fucking fired! When he tucks his hungry children into bed tonight, tell them why you "...just wish[ed] the [settlement] package had contained some decent games."

*Bats you on nose with rolled up newspaper* No!

So you got a dude fired for sexual harrasment. Besides showing exactly how destructive those lawsuits are, the one you should be angry at is the obligatory HR bitch who probably already fired all the interesting people.

To quote a much better article, geeky girls are JUST LIKE THE REST OF THEM, attention seeking, litigious, drama-creating, over-privileged social whores:

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2010/02/13/geeky-girls-are-just-like-the-rest-of-them-the-wow-chronicles/

The top EU WoW guild simply bans females outright. Another only allow them as healers, or, as I like to call them all now, staff chicks.

More and more GameStops seem to be hiring females to work the counters now...actually more and more retail/service anything seems to be hiring females-the usual move in an economic crisis. The model seems to be having one guy shift manager and a troop of women doing the entry-level tasks. 'Good' business model, I suppose, because women are much less likely to ask for raises and such. But I do expect a return of classical sexual harassment in the Mad Men style. Or, more likely, eventually the mere allegations of sexual harassment will knock out the shift managers, too, replacing them all with typical 'communications' degree college femdrones who want the job but care little to nothing about the games or the gamers themselves.

At that point it's a toss up, because Gamestop, from what I've seen, mostly serves as a warehousing area for the new releases, rather than a place where old gamers guide new ones into buying the right games. The real man in me wants to see them suffer financially for replacing guys who might have actually been able to play through games with chirpy happy retail chicks. But realistically, most of their customers already know enough about the games they play to simply ignore the extra salesyapping.

Final Disclaimer: Not to be mean to any girls who fall under the Not All Women Are Like That(NAWALT) rubric, but if you choose to be benevolent local despots instead of merciless tyrants with all the extra privileges and fewer responsibilities your sex entails, I don't much care, because I hear neither shame, nor outrage, nor a single escapist column looking askance at the destructive things women do to themselves, to men, and to gamers in general.

I found this site through TheECA, and I must say that I'm glad I did. This site is so much better than many of the other gamer sites which are filled with basiclaly fanboi wars non-stop.

Great article! Btw, besides ColorWare, where can you get one of those pink Wii's? LOL it's for a gift, I swears!

Epoetker:
Final Disclaimer: Not to be mean to any girls who fall under the Not All Women Are Like That(NAWALT) rubric, but if you choose to be benevolent local despots instead of merciless tyrants with all the extra privileges and fewer responsibilities your sex entails, I don't much care, because I hear neither shame, nor outrage, nor a single escapist column looking askance at the destructive things women do to themselves, to men, and to gamers in general.

Hey, no worries. Not to be mean to any boys who fall under the Not All Men Are Like That(NAMALT) rubric, but if you choose to be nice, sensitive guys rather than violent rapists with all the extra privileges and benefits your sex entails, I don't much care. Because I hear neither shame, nor outrage, nor a single escapist column looking askance at the destructive things men do to themselves, to women, and to gamers in general.

Oh, and you do realize that they hire women in gaming stores for the same reason that they have booth babes, right? That said, the ones I've run into have all been gamers themselves...

Epoetker:
Oh Dear Snipped.

The evidence you use to support your point is poorly written and really fucking sexist. Had you meant that female geeks are just like all other geeks you might have had a point but instead, it was that all women everywhere, ever, are just out to tie up the men with court proceedings, all in the name of getting a pay-off either in the form of cold hard cash or attention. That is precisely the same kind of blatant hate and sexism that you claim to deplore in the male-hating female supremacists.

Would you like to take the Pot or the Kettle card here?

If there is a One True Cancer killing games, it is those who believe that only "The Worthy" should be permitted access to the medium. From your post it appears you believe this to be the male population alone, an unfortunate and obstinately blind approach to something which offers entertainment across ages, races and genders. Gaming females are gamers, just like gaming males. One is not the default, it is simply the larger demographic.

Mr, Epoetker. Your determination to prove militant female supremacists correct is admirable, but misplaced. Such energies would be better spent in not making males as a gender appear so undeserving of the power we hold.

Is the turkey guy who cut off celebrities head and put them together with porn stars' bodies real?

Epoetker:
So you got a dude fired for sexual harrasment. Besides showing exactly how destructive those lawsuits are, the one you should be angry at is the obligatory HR bitch who probably already fired all the interesting people.

To quote a much better article, geeky girls are JUST LIKE THE REST OF THEM, attention seeking, litigious, drama-creating, over-privileged social whores:

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2010/02/13/geeky-girls-are-just-like-the-rest-of-them-the-wow-chronicles/

The top EU WoW guild simply bans females outright. Another only allow them as healers, or, as I like to call them all now, staff chicks.

More and more GameStops seem to be hiring females to work the counters now...actually more and more retail/service anything seems to be hiring females-the usual move in an economic crisis. The model seems to be having one guy shift manager and a troop of women doing the entry-level tasks. 'Good' business model, I suppose, because women are much less likely to ask for raises and such. But I do expect a return of classical sexual harassment in the Mad Men style. Or, more likely, eventually the mere allegations of sexual harassment will knock out the shift managers, too, replacing them all with typical 'communications' degree college femdrones who want the job but care little to nothing about the games or the gamers themselves.

At that point it's a toss up, because Gamestop, from what I've seen, mostly serves as a warehousing area for the new releases, rather than a place where old gamers guide new ones into buying the right games. The real man in me wants to see them suffer financially for replacing guys who might have actually been able to play through games with chirpy happy retail chicks. But realistically, most of their customers already know enough about the games they play to simply ignore the extra salesyapping.

Final Disclaimer: Not to be mean to any girls who fall under the Not All Women Are Like That(NAWALT) rubric, but if you choose to be benevolent local despots instead of merciless tyrants with all the extra privileges and fewer responsibilities your sex entails, I don't much care, because I hear neither shame, nor outrage, nor a single escapist column looking askance at the destructive things women do to themselves, to men, and to gamers in general.

Oh, aren't you just precious? "Real man" in you, indeed. Adorable!

Actually, that's just the troll in me. Hello, senior editor!

Last GameStop visit with staff chick:

"Does this Lunar game have the same translation as the previous one?"

"Oh I looooved that game!"

"You PLAYED the original Lunar? With the Working Designs translation?"

"Well, I mean my brother loved that game."

"Eh, ring it up. Nice talking to ya."

At least she was honest.

Now, to be even more fair, I think a lot of women have gotten into the videogameosphere simply because that's where all the non-violent smarter guys are. My tolerance for such things is based on whether they actually are Annarchy, or that gamer chick in the winning Escapist webcomic contest(all the gamer chicks with both pretty appearance and actual gaming chops seem to be in webcomics written by men,) or whether they're someone not on the high end of the attractive scale who saw a male field and used feminism as a pretext for breaking in so they could be queen of the beta males.

And no, not all men are like me. But more are becoming like me every day.

Epoetker:
Actually, that's just the troll in me. Hello, senior editor!

Last GameStop visit with staff chick:

"Does this Lunar game have the same translation as the previous one?"

"Oh I looooved that game!"

"You PLAYED the original Lunar? With the Working Designs translation?"

"Well, I mean my brother loved that game."

"Eh, ring it up. Nice talking to ya."

At least she was honest.

Now, to be even more fair, I think a lot of women have gotten into the videogameosphere simply because that's where all the non-violent smarter guys are. My tolerance for such things is based on whether they actually are Annarchy, or that gamer chick in the winning Escapist webcomic contest(all the gamer chicks with both pretty appearance and actual gaming chops seem to be in webcomics written by men,) or whether they're someone not on the high end of the attractive scale who saw a male field and used feminism as a pretext for breaking in so they could be queen of the beta males.

And no, not all men are like me. But more are becoming like me every day.

True story from my own personal experience:

I'm at a game show, poring over the vendors tables. One of them has some truly gorgeous Saturn and PSOne import stuff. I'm talking mint, just utterly drool-worthy. I, naturally, begin drooling, wishing I had the ready cash to pick up Vib Ribbon, Harmful Park and Ai Cho Aniki. (To be fair, the Vib Ribbon was a re-issue, so that one wasn't quite as high up on my WANT list.) So as I'm freaking out over these lovelies, the vendor says to me, "Wow, you have great taste in games for a gi-..."

Yes, a lot of girls don the "gamer" mantle to get attention. But assuming everyone with breasts who claims to love games is faking it is just plain silly.

Epoetker:

And no, not all men are like me. But more are becoming like me every day.

Chauvinistic tools?

??????

pretty much "boobs or gtfo..." lol

I can't believe they didn't check that. I mean surely you could have webcam chatted or something?

Daveman:

I can't believe they didn't check that. I mean surely you could have webcam chatted or something?

I'm not that kind of girl.

Marion Cox:

Daveman:

I can't believe they didn't check that. I mean surely you could have webcam chatted or something?

I'm not that kind of girl.

Well yes, evidently.

Susan Arendt:
So as I'm freaking out over these lovelies, the vendor says to me, "Wow, you have great taste in games for a gi-..."

Yes, a lot of girls don the "gamer" mantle to get attention. But assuming everyone with breasts who claims to love games is faking it is just plain silly.

No, it's simply a stereotype usually proven true. I further posit, based on experience, that the more into videogame arcana a woman is, the less feminine she is. Usually, unless her father or brother taught her all about such things from a young age, the number of truly videogame-loving chicks who are also hot is vanishingly small. (Just like the number of realistically feminine women who also love hunting, fishing, physics, assembly language, sailing, Square RPGs by Yasumi Matsuno instead of Tetsuya Nomura, and anything that involves hard-core analysis, long and arduous searches for forgotten content, extremely difficult mastery, and a fuck-ton of work guaranteed to go unknown and unappreciated by all but a few, and you'll usually find a 95% or better male-to-female ratio. You'll also find the people who do pretty much all the work necessary to run the goddamn modern world, but I digress.)

It's cruel, it's unforgiving, it's politically incorrect, and it's true. The high percentage of women who can't or won't go in-depth on any aspect of life it mirrored by the high percentage of women who can't even keep their marriage vows. Why not? Society, high or low brow, will not criticize them for it. Nor, sadly, will you.

John Funk:
Chauvinistic tools?

Fuck you very much. I prefer Men Going Their Own Way, honestly. In any case, Ms. Statistical Outlier doesn't need your sorry ass to white-knight for her if she really IS a statistical outlier, so drop the weak insults. It's unbecoming. Now, if you'd like to actually educate yourself on the societal devolution that led to this debacle, The Weekly Standard (also known years past by anti-war folks as "The Evil Jewish Quarterly That Got Us Into The Iraq War") has a nice roundup of the phenomenon. Also, City Journal, New York's most readable online publication, tried the 'men are immature chauvinists' line in one article and then published a rather immediate retraction in the next.

You want people to take gamers seriously? Stop throwing around words like 'chauvinist' as though you just got out of college. If you can't do a point-by-point response, go bask in the glory of your New Games Journalism or make some videos or something. I expect elitist collegiate snobs or aging Hollywood actresses to not care about things that affect the common man. Video games, like democracy, marriage, and family, are at least a semi-universal experience, accessible to almost everyone.

Epoetker:
*trimmed for length*

Wow.

Look, no disrespect meant, but you clearly have a lot of baggage about relationships and you're so wrapped up in it that you don't seem to realise just how toxic these attitudes are. I'm not a psychiatrist, but even I can see that you need to calm the hell down.

Is it wrong that i was at a party last weekend where a girl (grrl?) was playing super mario bros 3 like her life depended on it and i found her oddly 100x more attractive all the sudden? I mean, who even remembers where all those hidden 1-ups and mushrooms are?! This girl! HOT!

Epoetker:
No, it's simply a stereotype usually proven true. I further posit, based on experience, that the more into videogame arcana a woman is, the less feminine she is. Usually, unless her father or brother taught her all about such things from a young age, the number of truly videogame-loving chicks who are also hot is vanishingly small.[Citation Needed] (Just like the number of realistically feminine women who also love hunting, fishing, physics, assembly language, sailing, Square RPGs by Yasumi Matsuno instead of Tetsuya Nomura, and anything that involves hard-core analysis, long and arduous searches for forgotten content, extremely difficult mastery, and a fuck-ton of work guaranteed to go unknown and unappreciated by all but a few, and you'll usually find a 95% or better male-to-female ratio. You'll also find the people who do pretty much all the work necessary to run the goddamn modern world, but I digress.)

I begin to wonder where you systematic hatred of women stems from. Paying even the most minute of attentions to your post finds that every point, whether it's discussing the relative gender-knowledge of either sex, or even the digression of points from one thought to an unrelated other.

The fact of the matter is there's an inverse example for every one of yours. Your example isolates that women break their vows at a high rate, whereas men more often have sexual thoughts, engage in extramarital affairs, and are more likely in general to participate in what most would refer to as "immoral acts." For every example of a ditz at GameStop, I can provide a jock who can't recommend beyond Halo 3, Modern Warfare, and the latest incarnation of whichever sports game they favor. You mention that women are less likely to be "female and hot." Shall I ask the inverse, what percentage of male gamers are stereotypically attractive?

On that topic, it's funny how Google defaults to "Sexiest Male Tennis players" when asked. But tacking a wonderful "Fe" to the front of the previous search is not only more on-point, but even has YouTube links. Spiffy.

Even rolling my eyes and avoiding sexism, the problem with any possible discussion of this sort is that it's becoming too epidemic to quantify persons by their sex rather than the fact that they're persons. I don't treat "grrl gamers" differently, because they aren't. They wake up in beds, put pants on one leg at a time, and they have two hands, and eight fingers, with which to hold the controller. If they want to make a big deal out of being female, then they're not "another dumbass girl gamer." That just makes them "another dumbass." Further modifiers are unnecessary.

Either way, I politely disagree with Funk. You're not "another chauvanist dumbass." You're just a dumbass.

Nice article. It somewhat reminds me of getting hired at a gaming store, where the district manager informed me that a woman with short hair didn't - and couldn't - look professional.

Yeah.

Haha very awesome.

Another editorial white knight:
Look, no disrespect meant, but you clearly have a lot of baggage about relationships and you're so wrapped up in it that you don't seem to realise just how toxic these attitudes are. I'm not a psychiatrist, but even I can see that you need to calm the hell down.

Hey there, Other Editor Person, it's not that I have a lot of problems with relationships. As a matter of fact, I have none. By my choice, and most assuredly not from getting rejected. Most of the guys I worked with originally tried to give me a hard time about it, because I was a guy who could occasionally 'charm' or 'game' women but never either took them home or tried to pursue a long term relationship. About three or four divorces in my workgroup later, they stopped laughing and started respecting my decision. Especially when me and a few other single-by-choice guys were the only ones who weren't broke. Let your matriarch speak.

My God, that's TWO Escapist editors who feel they need to jump in and take the brunt for a woman's honor by throwing out the tired old feminist shaming tactics. I'm still waiting for someone to jump in with 'I'm just mad because I can't get any' or 'I'm secretly gay.' If you'd like a few more choices, there's a site just for you.

Now for the guy who actually went for a semi-reasoned response:

I begin to wonder where you systematic hatred of women stems from.

From having three little sisters that are actually more intelligent and independent than the great majority of women out there and realizing that their prospects for a future in life are going to be nigh-irreparably harmed by the Sex and the City crowd. Next question.

The fact of the matter is there's an inverse example for every one of yours.

I don't care about isolated examples in Lake Wobegon, Ohio, where everyone is above average, every woman is both sexy and a rocket scientist, and every situation is completely unique. I care about statistics. I care about things that happen the same way the same time due to systemic problems. I care about hearing the same stories in divorce courts, relationships, and married life all the goddamn time. I get very, very, very concerned when everyone starts reading off the same script. When such things happen, I start to think that the anomaly is systemic, and that only by calling it out can we begin to fix it.

Your example isolates that women break their vows at a high rate, whereas men more often have sexual thoughts, engage in extramarital affairs, and are more likely in general to participate in what most would refer to as "immoral acts."

Actually, every reputable study I've seen shows that women do indeed engage in all the things that men do in the above post. They're just more likely to get away with them due to being women, both naturally socially adept and more socially protected. For instance, it took three pages of posts before someone had the guts to say that defrauding a guy into getting fired for sexual harassment was kinda fucked up.

For every example of a ditz at GameStop, I can provide a jock who can't recommend beyond Halo 3, Modern Warfare, and the latest incarnation of whichever sports game they favor.

I have never, ever, EVER seen a jock working at GameStop. And I've been to a lot of GameStops. Ignorant neophyte nerds who may have cut their fanboy teeth on Halo instead of GoldenEye and CounterStrike, yes, but never any jocks.

You mention that women are less likely to be "female and hot." Shall I ask the inverse, what percentage of male gamers are stereotypically attractive?

Women crave assholes much more than nice guys, sad to say. Females measure attractiveness in men less by appearance and much more by social dominance, with material provider possibility a distant second. Ironically, this preselection often goes by whether or not they already have or have had a woman before. But most male nerds I know of don't really give a shit about how attractive their friends or opponents in a game are. But I've generally seen a higher percentage of nominally physically attractive gamer guys than gamer girls, even with the large number of truly hideous among our number.

Even rolling my eyes and avoiding sexism, the problem with any possible discussion of this sort is that it's becoming too epidemic to quantify persons by their sex rather than the fact that they're persons.

My friend, you don't learn things by dropping all stereotypes. You learn things by making more accurate stereotypes. 'Man is polygamous, woman monogamous' is a bad stereotype. 'Man is polygamous, woman hypergamous' is a little truer. 'Man tends toward polygamy, and woman tends toward hypergamy, given the option' is more accurate than the preceding but not as effectively communicative. The problem is not the quantification but the preselection, by idiot girls and the men who follow them.

I don't treat "grrl gamers" differently, because they aren't. They wake up in beds, put pants on one leg at a time, and they have two hands, and eight fingers, with which to hold the controller.

And a brain with a much higher percentage of white matter than grey, and a much more active corpus collosum, fostering an emotional state where things that wouldn't affect the average man will affect her. A greater amount of connections between the two halves of the brain is good for the stereotypically female social activities, not so good when a single time-sensitive task must be concentrated on for long periods of time. Women simply do not mentally project themselves like men do. Some can be trained, and it's better if this training comes early in life, when the brain's still developing. Even then, it often seems to go against their natures.

If they want to make a big deal out of being female, then they're not "another dumbass girl gamer." That just makes them "another dumbass." Further modifiers are unnecessary.

Actually, they're very necessary. Not every dumbass can get someone fired for hurting their feelings. The exact same response can lead to an amicable tell-off on the part of a guy and threatened legal action on the part of a woman.

Either way, I politely disagree with Funk. You're not "another chauvanist dumbass." You're just a dumbass.

Game over, try again,

Epoetker:
*another trim*

I didn't say you had problems, I said you had baggage - which you clearly do - baggage that you've turned into a crusade.

I'm not going to try and argue with you; you wear your issues on your sleeve, and you've invested a lot more time into this than I have. I just think its sad that you've gotten yourself in such a state.

Oh, and just so you know, Reliable Source is fictional.

Epoetker:
Women crave assholes much more than nice guys, sad to say. Females measure attractiveness in men less by appearance and much more by social dominance, with material provider possibility a distant second.

Hang on, you're trying to tell a website with women on it how we find people attractive? As much as I hate to use the line, Honey, you're doin' it wrong. We know what we find attractive and for all the women I know, it's not the Alpha Males.

Oh sorry, I forgot, you're a Nice GuyTM. You naturally have all the knowledge and information about female sexual instincts. Bleh.

There are very good reasons that women don't go for Nice GuyTM. Let's start with the manipulative tendencies. It seems a common tactic among Nice GuysTM to befriend women, getting their sympathy about how he's had no luck with romance, and then when he tries to advance the relationship she isn't interested because he kicked it off as a friend. Yes, the Friend Zone exists, and Nice Guys set up their own camps in it. Next up, Nice GuyTM hate women. Oh yes, there's a fundamental misogyny in the Nice GuyTM method, the constant bitching about how women mistreat them, the declarations that they know what women like. But nooooo, the woman they're telling this to is different. She's not a bitch, or a slut, like the other women. She's special.

Expecting women to date men who behave like this is like expecting men to date female supremacists just because said potential date turns around and goes "but you're not like those men, you're nice."

A third reason is because many women have dated Nice GuysTM before, and putting up with that kind of emotional abuse and bullshit once is by far enough.

The reason that some women go for arseholes is because they're like Nice GuysTM, without the wallowing in self pity. And they're more straight forward about it. Personally I wouldn't touch either with anything but a 10-foot-pole made of spikes and poison. Women don't go for Nice GuysTM because of the way that those Nice GuysTM behave, not because women are all ganged up to deprive them of sex.

I know very few people who date arseholes for long, and it's exceptionally rare that they take seconds from the same group. And no, being attractive to women or having a girlfriend does not make someone an arsehole. There are a lot of men outside the Emotional Manipulator continuum of Arseholes and Nice GuysTM. They're far better people.

I greatly enjoyed the article and Mr Epotker: Die in a fire.

I play games, have been called attractive by all of my boyfriends, and have never acted in any of the ways you claim female gamers do. I like games, and I have a large number of other gaming friends (females no less) who work in retail selling *gasp* games! And we do well, and we know what we're talking about, we may not be elitests like you were aluding to with your comment about the female retail clerk but come to my or any of my friends stores and we'll be happy to discuss games.

Epoetker:
Usually, unless her father or brother taught her all about such things from a young age, the number of truly videogame-loving chicks who are also hot is vanishingly small.

Because everything else I could say about everything else you've said has already been said by Nuke, Nil or Lab, I'll just say this:

I beg to differ. :}

Thank you very much, Labyrinth, for your incisive appraisal of the nice guy phenomenon. Let's dive right in:

Hang on, you're trying to tell a website with women on it how we find people attractive? As much as I hate to use the line, Honey, you're doin' it wrong. We know what we find attractive and for all the women I know, it's not the Alpha Males.

Of all the women I know, they'll tell me they don't want the Alpha Male, then go right around and find a cad, have sex with them, complain about the cad's alpha qualities, and then say in the same breath: "But he has such a nice personality..."

I blame the fact that men are warned and shamed about their polygamous instincts but women are never, ever, ever warned about their hypergamous instincts. Indicated by the fact that this spell checker doesn't even recognize the word. So when a guy develops a wandering eye or gets aroused by another woman, he has an automatic social mental check, but if a girl, married, relationed, or boyfriended, sees a new guy who's socially dominant, personally handsome, materially wealthy, or some combination of the three, she has no social pressure whatsoever to not drop the guy she has and go for the new. (The voice of your vagina IS THE VOICE OF GOD!)

Oh sorry, I forgot, you're a Nice GuyTM. You naturally have all the knowledge and information about female sexual instincts. Bleh.

No, I'm a biologist by degree, and an EMT by profession, so judging people's instincts, female and male, is kind of important to me. I also read people smarter than me. But I've always done that. Just a man thing, to get better by arguing your points with as many people as possible.

There are very good reasons that women don't go for Nice GuyTM. Let's start with the manipulative tendencies. It seems a common tactic among Nice GuysTM to befriend women, getting their sympathy about how he's had no luck with romance, and then when he tries to advance the relationship she isn't interested because he kicked it off as a friend. Yes, the Friend Zone exists, and Nice Guys set up their own camps in it.

There are as many heterosexual guys in the Friend Zone who do not want to eventually have sex with you as there are girls on the Internet. There are even fewer heterosexual guys in the friend zone whom you would not probably get very, very, mad at if they decided to move to a different woman's friend zone, or actually find a relationship with another woman. You can also be like my sister, who had a guy who visited her house every night for hours just to talk about random stuff. She told us she found it a little creepy, me and my family told her he was obviously interested in her for either sex or marriage. She had The Talk, where she presumably told him that she just wasn't interested in marriage at this time, but maybe further down the road...and he stopped visiting immediately and started visiting her other college friend whom he'd been dating previously. And for some craaazy reason, despite all the pronouncements to us about how much he was just a friend, she cried for a week afterward whenever he name was even mentioned obliquely. Needless to say, my estimation of the guy shot up considerably. He wasn't a pick-up artist, he wasn't all that refined, but he had a strategy and stuck to it.

Next up, Nice GuyTM hate women. Oh yes, there's a fundamental misogyny in the Nice GuyTM method, the constant bitching about how women mistreat them, the declarations that they know what women like. But nooooo, the woman they're telling this to is different. She's not a bitch, or a slut, like the other women. She's special.

Maybe you are, maybe you're not. Maybe you have the same massive sense of entitlement that my sister had-that every guy must wait until every one of the five zillion check marks on your Mr. Right list are okayed, and that for a guy to even DREAM about moving into a physical relationship based on a friendship is just too weird. How DARE he spend all that time (and often, money) validating himself and then expect any sort of reward! How DARE he not fill my preselection quotient by not already having a girlfriend, so I can pretend the reason he's interested in me is because he's interested in my opinions, and not my body! How DARE he not take video games as a side hobby rather than the center of his existence! (That spot is reserved for ME and MY needs and opinions!) But there's absolutely no fundamental misandry in hating nice guys.

As it goes, a man can hate 'women' all he wants so long as he loves one woman. Are you saying you're NOT special? Or are you insulted because a man who doesn't meet your standard is trying to say that you are? Man is not trying to marry a sisterhood of fault-finders, and as long as you think and act according to what the sisterhood and your own evil biological urges tell you (i.e., take only the best man, take a man who's not the best but then try to get with a better one behind your husband's back, have children by the better one and then get Mr. Second Best to raise them, pretty much anything other than 'find one you like, marry him, and then actually try to keep your marriage vows as best you can) you'll always be disappointed. Though I suppose you could always keep a few around as admirers, as long as your beauty holds. Just don't end up like that girl who ended up advertising in the personals for a gay friend.

The game theory folks are there to tell nice guys that backhanded compliments and general jerkitude are more evolutionarily greatly favored means of having sex with women than the usual nice guy method of penetrating the friend zone. If you haven't caught the drift yet.

Expecting women to date men who behave like this is like expecting men to date female supremacists just because said potential date turns around and goes "but you're not like those men, you're nice."

If a girl says that to a guy, and he's not objectively a pick-up artist, the only reason I'd tell the guy NOT to go for her is the danger that she'll relapse. Once again, if you really and truly want to change behavior, it has to begin with one man, not all men. And there are, percentage-wise, very few men actually capable of love-her-and-leave-her behavior. You just see them more often because those are the ones you chase after. I suppose that socially non-dominant men, poor men, and ugly men(actually, there are no ugly men, only poor ones) are just like fat women to males-those people you talk to but don't really look at. Invisible.

A third reason is because many women have dated Nice GuysTM before, and putting up with that kind of emotional abuse and bullshit once is by far enough.

'Emotional abuse' can mean pretty much anything, which is probably why it's such a popular woman term. As is 'bullshit.' Please use better descriptors, because my experience is that there's a type of emotional abuse and bullshit that young, pretty women seem to just LOVE.

The reason that some women go for arseholes is because they're like Nice GuysTM, without the wallowing in self pity.

Men tend to not wallow in self-pity when you actually, you know, marry them. Or have sex with them. Or support them. Or not fool around transparently behind their back. Or keep them in the friend zone forever. I guess that means the sexiest man is...one who's already got an attractive, adoring woman! No way this strategy could go wrong!

Now, through discipline, experience, religion, study, and...eh, let's be honest, masturbation, a man can often realize that he doesn't actually need to find a woman to be happy, and once they're not giving off that oh-so-displeasing stink of desperation in dating life, they tend to be much more attractive to women. But by that time most have also discovered that they can pump and dump as much as they like, and most will take to that lifestyle with gusto. If you're lucky, and still young and beautiful, at that stage you can still have sex with them, but a committed, long-term relationship? Pshaw, dearie.

And they're more straight forward about it. Personally I wouldn't touch either with anything but a 10-foot-pole made of spikes and poison. Women don't go for Nice GuysTM because of the way that those Nice GuysTM behave, not because women are all ganged up to deprive them of sex.

Not ganged. Trained. To be stupid about relationships, male motivation, and your own psyche. In any case, you said it yourself, given two men, a nice guy and a jerk, most women will go for the jerk. Thus jerks prevail. Q.E.D.

I know very few people who date arseholes for long,

Arseholes generally don't WANT to date people, they want to have sex with them! So why would THEY be dissatisfied with the flavor-of-last-week breaking it off?

and it's exceptionally rare that they take seconds from the same group.

So they tell you, and probably lie about all the jerks they banged. Because if you don't feel good about it, it didn't really happen, right?

And no, being attractive to women or having a girlfriend does not make someone an arsehole. There are a lot of men outside the Emotional Manipulator continuum of Arseholes and Nice GuysTM. They're far better people.

That's it? You can give me a fairly good descriptor of a stereotypical nice guy and a stereotypical jerk, but your magical mystical third option simply exists, somewhere out there? Is he Edward Cullen? Is he Superman? Is he David Beckham? Is he that assuring voice on the public service announcements? Is he Jesus? Does he have a name? Does he have a job? Does he have a community of like-minded people with him, who can show a Third Way and thus lead other men to a Pussy Paradise?

I mean, judging by the Brittanization of the Ass, you're from England, right? That Japan of the the Western Hemisphere, where the few multimythic heroes loom large in the public feminine consciousness, fads are vigorously and destructively followed, violent crime has been kicking your teeth in ever since you banned handguns, and women are among the worst-behaved in the Western world? (Outside of Australia, of course.) That England? Maybe there are a few holdouts among the wreckage, but such holdouts tend to be loners. Ironically enough, I might happen to be among those third options, simply because my policy of staying away from women HAS enabled me to talk to them civilly and without incident. It doesn't mean I'm in your ballpark, or even your stadium, dearie.

Your choices and your responsibilities have not changed. I don't know if you're a slut, but you're definitely a solipsistic narcissist, like most women are trained to be. (And if you don't know the meaning of the words, there are online dictionaries. As a man, words actually mean things to me.)

Feel free to now use traditional female shaming language in lieu of a response. I do like non-descriptive, emotionally miasmatic words like 'creepy,' 'off,' 'shifty,' 'has issues,' or anything else designed to evoke the image of me in a twirly mustache, crazy eyes, and a top hat hiding in the bushes ready to rape the first innocent soul who comes along. These lovely male Escapist editors who keep posting will no doubt give you plenty of vocabulatory material.

Flawlessly brilliant as always, I always enjoy hearing about your psychotic dad

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