It's Time To Forgive George Lucas

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Sorry Bobby. No. Lucas is an ape. Star Wars only used to be a good thing.

I was never pissed off in the first place. He's not really destroying the originals, I'm sure he has them somewhere, if not I have my original VHS tapes (but no VCR). And yeah the prequels aren't as good as the original films, but that doesn't mean their horrible, horrible is watching a Uwe Boll movie. In fact Revenge of the Sith is my second favorite star wars film (next to return of the Jedi). If anything we should be pissed off about the crappy Star Wars games that keep coming out.

Shintsu2:

People can say whatever they like, I think most people LIKED the prequels

I'm pretty sure a show a poll would tell you otherwise.
Or simply Google "Han shot first" :)

The way some of you talk, it's like the prequels were some super low budget crap movies. Good lord I've watched some low budget movies, and not the "nostalgic" kind - the plain out bad kind, like "Wow, this movie is so poorly made it's unbearable to watch".

Plain bad movies are great. I love Plan Nine from Outer Space and that's generally seen as the worst movie of all time.

Theoretically speaking in some aspects people might consider the classic The Day The Earth Stood Still to be cheesy and antiquated,

Against Keanu's version? He's antiquated when he's brand new.

Now compare to some of those cheesy alien movies from the 60's, none of the famous ones just completely random ones that no one remembers. EXACTLY, NO ONE remembers and no one wants to. They're just not enjoyable.

Them!, Attack of the 50ft Woman, Attack of the Killer Tomatoes, Amazon Women of the Moon, Manos: The Hands of Fate? Wonderful.

Prequel haters get out of your movie critic chair and get back in the enjoyment chair, you're missing out on a lot...George Lucas didn't rape your childhood or whatever - if you think so then you are convincing yourself of it, probably because you don't get enough attention. Stop being so melodramatic.

I got immediately out of my chair to get myself a sandwich, Phantom Menace bores me when it's not making me enraged.

There's one thing Lucas can do to get absolved of his crimes against movie-making.

Release the ORIGINAL prequels on DVD for a reasonable price. None of this "enhanced" version, as it was just plain effing about with a classic.

That's worth a thousand Hail Mary's and then I'd take him off my hate-list.

The only things worth hating Lucas for are:

A) beginning the career of Hayden Christensen
and
B) putting Hayden Christensen at the end of Return of the Jedi.

B is a travesty, but other than that I don't care.

Sure he doesn't owe us the fans anything. But that doesn't mean I cant be pissed off about him screwing up the prequels or that canon trashing Star Wars: The Clone Wars cartoon.

Yo. YO. Big ups to Movie Bob for dropping some information about C.S. Lewis that didn't directly pertain to the narnia series. As for Georgie, it is his story and I suppose he's in his right to do whatever he wants to it. Anyone still angry with the phantom menace is probably into starwars enough to make up their own alternative to what the films depict. It's a lot like the later Dune novels (and in many ways like the dreck Herbert Jr. is writing these days), some good ideas buried in a mountain of unlikable characters and unnecessary exposition.

slowpoke999:

KillerMidget:

slowpoke999:

C.S. Lewis, in describing his gradual personal transition from staunch atheist to Christian philosopher (and author of the Narnia books) described his period of unbelief as a state of being "angry with God for not existing."

Ow Ow Ow, I don't know who that guy is but that comment made my brain owie, I'll have to read Page 2 some other time

I think the theory there is that you can't be angry with God and not believe in Him at the same time. Or is it just the strangeness of the sentence that vortexed your brain?

OT: Sure I'll forgive the little scamp! But only if I get to tug on his magic beard for luck.

The amount of stupidity from his comment hurt my brain, if he was angry with God, he failed at being an Athiest

I don't think you're allowed to call C.S. Lewis stupid when you've already admitted that you don't know who he is. "I don't know who C.S. Lewis is" is virtually an equivalent statement to "I'm almost illiterate".

Also, of course he failed at being an atheist. He went from being an atheist to being one of the most influential Christian thinkers of the last 150 years. But how could you possibly have known that? Bob only said it earlier in the sentence.

Comment fail.

OT: I've never really understood all the hatred for the prequels. They're certainly not as bad as Someone Masquerading as My Favorite Movie Character and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

The_root_of_all_evil:

zelda2fanboy:
It's just a movie.

That doesn't mean that they didn't have a huge effect on Human history, psychology, belief and dreams.

Star Wars was merely recycling thousands of years of mythology and the previous 50 years of war movies, Westerns, and sci fi. Everything that Star Wars "contributed" to the collective unconscious was already there to begin with. Granted, it did it very well, but no better than the many movies that came before and after.

zelda2fanboy:

The_root_of_all_evil:

zelda2fanboy:
It's just a movie.

That doesn't mean that they didn't have a huge effect on Human history, psychology, belief and dreams.

Star Wars was merely recycling thousands of years of mythology and the previous 50 years of war movies, Westerns, and sci fi. Everything that Star Wars "contributed" to the collective unconscious was already there to begin with. Granted, it did it very well, but no better than the many movies that came before and after.

You could say the same about Zelda ;)

Am I the only one who thinks this article is far too whiny?

George who ?
:)

ffxfriek:

duchaked:
I don't think the prequels were bad, just different. Me? I love the Clone Wars era.

...and that's about as much as I really need to say haha

Exactly I love the star wars prequils but i absolutely hate indiana jones 4. sorry i hate it. ANYWHO the reason i commented you was because: have you seen/watch the clone wars tv show? Theyre almost as good as full length movies. In fact if they made them full length movies itd be pretty awesome

haha initially I thought someone would quote me just to chastise me for liking the prequels
thank goodness no =]

anyway ummm yea Indiana Jones 4 for me...idk it was fun to watch at the time but ultimately just weirded out

oh ummm I want to watch the tv show of Clone Wars but I don't think I can receive it where I'm staying (guess I could find it online...or buy the dvds if they're out)
but I have heard good things about them

the actual animated Clone Wars movie was a bit disappointing for me mainly because it was only made to kick-off for the show? idk cuz it wasn't really a stand-alone film with super big epic battles but w/e
all in all I do wish I had more time and was able to watch the tv show which I heard was really good (the older ones on Cartoon Network were amazing)

Onyx Oblivion:

The next time I see Star Wars, it will be the remastered versions. Because it doesn't fucking matter.

This. I don't care if Greedo shot first. I don't care about the "wrongs" of the prequels.

Anyone who goes around saying George Lucas ruined their childhood memories is a sad individual who probably needs to get out a little more. A movie, even an widely influential movie, is still just a movie.

Cpu46:

duchaked:
I don't think the prequels were bad, just different. Me? I love the Clone Wars era.

Same here, sure jar jar was slightly annoying but he was still funny to listen to. My only problem was episode 2, the romance between padime and skywalker seemed a bit too corny and it interrupted the action. Episode 1 was fun to watch, 2 was OK, 3 was all kinds of epic.
I do think that the original trilogy is still miles ahead of 1,2, and 3 in terms of story and characterization though.

Jar Jar was funny for me cuz my dad commented about how someone at his work apparently looked just like Binks...lol

Episode I for me was very fun to watch (whee), tho the action wasn't very satisfying...except the Darth Maul duel
(one of the best lightsaber fights ever)
Episode II...ultimately I liked it a lot more than Episode I
romance? meh... arena fight? sigh... clone troopers? YES. and it was still faster paced than Episode I

and I just love Episode III
Padme step aside, the relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan in this movie is just great
the most disappointing thing about it was how they cheated Palpatine didn't really fight all four Jedi masters...LAME
but whatever, cuz the rest of the action in the film (esp. the final duel) created one of the greatest emotional highs ever

The_root_of_all_evil:
[quote="Shintsu2" post="6.183149.5488718"]
There's one thing Lucas can do to get absolved of his crimes against movie-making.

Release the ORIGINAL prequels on DVD for a reasonable price. None of this "enhanced" version, as it was just plain effing about with a classic.

That's worth a thousand Hail Mary's and then I'd take him off my hate-list.

lol chill

but I think they did release the original (unedited) movies on DVD, I didn't buy it (yet) but I'm pretty sure it's been out there for a while now

The_root_of_all_evil:
You could say the same about Zelda ;)

You could. Note that my handle is somewhat ironic. Zelda 2 is the most punishing and most hated game in the series. It's fanboy poison.

Great, article, MovieBob, well said!

All George Lucas needs to get back in the fans' good graces is someone close to him that can say No. "No, George, that's not going to work. No, George, that doesn't make sense. No, George, that's just dumb." Unfortunately, in the movie business, it's considered career suicide to say this to someone who makes more money than you. And, NO ONE makes more money than George Lucas.

I will say, I was rather disappointed with the Prequels, but nothing in them can ever make me stop loving the Originals or Star Wars in general. I'm still in awe of the influences that Star Wars made on popular culture and sci-fi films, and the Extended Universe is amazing as well. And you make some great points about the innovations Mr. Lucas made in the art of film.

Here is the only thing George Lucas should be ridiculed for: he took it on himself to write and direct all of the prequels. He let the fans make him think he had talent for something other than visual effects, when he clearly doesn't.

Keep in mind fanboys, the Star Wars series has and always will be for kids. Seen as such, many of the flaws fade away, even in the prequels. These movies are to showcase Lucas' amazing visual mind, and for toys. They are not for the story, and certainly not for the dialogue. Also try to remember that because these are kids' movies, all of you fanboys of the originals will be forgotten in a generation, but these movies will live on in their current form. So, stop your bitching, it's not going to get you anything.

And all that said, I think Episode 3 is possibly the second best film of the entire series.

Eh, I personally kinda enjoyed the prequels... well, okay, the first and third, I have no interest in "Attack of the Clones". Or any interest in the current cartoon.

But again, I have nothing against Lucas, since he is the one that created the series in the first place...

zelda2fanboy:

The_root_of_all_evil:
You could say the same about Zelda ;)

You could. Note that my handle is somewhat ironic. Zelda 2 is the most punishing and most hated game in the series. It's fanboy poison.

Ah, then fair game. I picked the reference so you could feel my pain.

duchaked:

The_root_of_all_evil:

Release the ORIGINAL prequels on DVD for a reasonable price. None of this "enhanced" version, as it was just plain effing about with a classic.

lol chill

We all have our little rage-points, that's one of mine. Don't even get me started on Michael Grade :)

but I think they did release the original (unedited) movies on DVD, I didn't buy it (yet) but I'm pretty sure it's been out there for a while now

Not updated the sound and the video though, so it looks like it's been camcordered in a cinema. And that's before I start on Indiana Jones and the Fridge of Doom ;)

It's like watching Steve Martin doing Clouseau. You know that even at his greatest, he can't top the sheer love the original had, but still he keeps digging.

It's because I love the Universe that I get so annoyed when the "author" decides to re-write it against not only his own ideals, but those that made it popular in the first place.

Next week I'll tell you how Disney has re-wrote Bambi so that Bambi's Mother never dies, she just goes away. True story.

Nothing to forgive. The prequels were fine. Greedo shooting first isn't the end of the universe.

Why the hell are the last couple generations (mine included), and guys in particular, in possession of such a hatred of emotion? Anything with the slightest bit of love or emotional trouble is branded "angsty".

Hayden could have been a little better, sure, but get over it people. There are more important things out there.

I gotta say, I really do love all the psycho fanboy nerds who think that because they purchase every piece of star wars memorabilia and spend 95% of their time editing the Star Wars wiki that they somehow "own" the series and are allowed to cry foul when it doesn't go the way they want it to.

News flash: It's Lucas's universe, not mine, yours, or ours; he can take it wherever he wants or he can approve any direction written by someone else that he wants.

Move. On.

P.S. The prequels are not "crap" or "awful" or anything. They aren't universally condemned in any shape or form. Every opinion is subjective ONLY, something that a lot of movie critics (even bob on occasion) lose sight of. Just because you despise it and thing that "Lucas raped your childhood" doesn't make it universal fact.

So for the record: Yeah, Han shot first, and the prequels were GREAT! (in my opinion, of course).

Star Wars has always been bad writing, honestly. We acted outraged and surprised, but honestly what did we expect, looking at the previous videos? Yes they were big technical achievements and helped foster a genre, I get that, honestly I do, but that doesn't mean that they were flawless and it certainly doesn't give them a free pass not to be given the same discerning appraisal as other movies. I think the phenonemon really is more of "its different than old stuff I liked" which is a generation-gap type societal issue that plays out every generation, like a kind of growing pain. Take it for what it is, or don't, I suppose.

What Prequels? Star Wars was awesome!

Ah George, a classic example of a man who didn't know when to call it a day. I never hated him that would be foolish and im sure he's a lovely man. But you say it all in your piece Bob, all his best work was done years ago. His legacy will live on but with unlimited budget, casting and scripting freedom producing 3 absolutely shocking and Juvenile star wars movies and the woeful Indiana 4 is unacceptable.

All the positive articles in the world wont make the prequel trilogy suck less...

I LOVED ALL THE STAR WARS FILMS! The third one was kind of dark, but otherwise I loved them!
And Jar-Jar Binks? Love that guy! Wished he would have stayed on later... People just need something to hate, like Micheal Jackson. I loved his music, and I never cared what he did in his personal life.

Scde2:
I don't hate George Lucas because of the prequels or animated series.
I hate him because of the Star Wars Holiday Special, which is unforgivable!
Producing Howard the Duck doesn't help.

I was quite young when I saw it, but I seem to recall Howard the Duck was composed almost entirely of win.

Also, I am not going to sit here and state that I didn't like the prequels at all, because in spite of their many transgressions each of them was very nearly a watchable film. Honestly, when I just do a rough rundown of the elements of the film it seems like I ought to think it fantastic: the effects are outstanding, the cast is full of talent in all the right places, the universe (as always) is well realized and the action is vastly improved. For me, the points of failure do not lie simply in the sillyness of midichlorians (which provide as good of an explanation as we were given before - that simply "wanting to" and a bit of practice was all that was necessary to become a master of the force) but in the writing itself (I would time and again cringe and think "that's not the sort of thing I'd reasonably expect someone to say there") and worse still, the delivery (some of the most wooden acting I've ever seen coming from a-list actors who have time and again proven their skill at their craft). It honestly seemed like writer and director conspired against casting and effects to create a movie that only approached greatness and thus fell into the most pitiable of spots - the movie that one just doesn't care to see. I adore bad movies (when they're awful enough), because there is enjoyment to be had when something goes disasterously wrong, but the Star Wars prequels are that special kind of movie I can neither love nor despise and obviously cannot ignore. They just sit there like a splinter in my mind, daring me to come to some hard and fast conclusion yet time and again I resist.

Epoetker:
Before talking about forgiving OR forgetting George Lucas, one must consider what happened in between 1983 and 1999. Most specifically the explosion of good Star Wars novels, good Star Wars videogames from a LucasArts that hadn't fired all the creative people yet (THAT should be the REAL unforgivable crime,) and the gradual Star Wars hype machine (re-release of the remastered original series, release in theaters and then VHS of the Special Edition with actual nods to Coruscant and such cities,) combined to give the impression that yes, all you readers of the New Star Wars print media and players in the New Star Wars videogame lands (Kotor? Pish-tosh, ye ignorant neophytes, it was all about Rebel Assault, Dark Forces, and TIE Fighter!) were actually being listened to.

While I agree that those are excellent games, there are a few points that ought to be made. Dark Forces was, quite literally, a doom clone. At every possible level it played like and looked like Doom. The same ray traced graphics, virtually identical weapon and enemy selection (if one looks past the sprites outward appearance). This did not stop it from being a worthwile game of course, I played and loved it, but to place it on an alter as though it represents what talented and creative people do would indicate to me that talented and creative people steal from id. Not that there was much wrong with that - it seemed like everyone was doing it. I would also note that if one does not read any of the novels (like me) and who's knowledge only comes from the movies and select video games, it would appear that the game is a bit of a retcon since the end state objective is to steal the death star plans. Unless I was absent mindedly shooting bothans, I'm pretty sure something has been left out in the narrative.

The next point I would bring up is simply that listening to your fans for new ideas is rarely a successful strategy. What you'll find in the long run is that the advice you get for your next project looks suspiciously close to the last project they liked. No progress gets made in this format - one simply iterates a formula until eventually people stop buying.

That said, if someone asked me, I would actually love to see a new TIE Fighter game, which is still my favorite space combat game ever made.

Epoetker:

As it turned out, no, not really, no. The soft-spirituality of the Force, which you can generally get away with in sci-fi, led directly to the soft-science of the midichlorians (Parasite Eve did that plot way better in the same year,) "going through the planet core"(facepalm), and a ridiculously lame attempt to shoehorn in a 'virgin birth' subplot. (Which I facepalmed at nearly as hard as when the Na'vi told Jake Sully that he must be 'born again'.)

The midichlorians are an absolutely terrible explanation, I'll grant you that, but it is still an explanation. The original movies simply implied that "wanting to" and practicing was all it took to learn the ways of the force. Hell, Luke learned most of what he needed in a few weeks (or months I suppose) of training.

My problem with this explanation is that it hangs a lantern on this long standing problem. They don't really explain how it works, and in general if one wants to keep the discontent to a minimum, the best solution is to simply not address the issue. No explanation is better than a bad explanation. In the first case, you annoy people like me, in the latter case you annoy everybody.

Epoetker:

PROTIP: Western movies should only borrow Eastern spiritual concepts. Eastern movies should only borrow Western spiritual concepts. There's something incredibly unright about people who live in your own damn country with your own damn co-religionists getting it that wrong. C.S. Lewis is subtler than that in Narnia. Michael fucking Bay is subtler than that in Transformers. (As soon as I saw Soundwave for the first time, I realized that Transformers 2 less a hard sci-fi movie than a Frank Peretti novel with giant robots standing in for the angels and demons. It's the closest thing to This Present Darkness you'll find in theaters, and that covers for a whole lot.0

Michael Bay is subtle? I'm not sure I've ever seen that asserted, at least not in recent memory. Moreover, the theme you are applying to transformers is almost utterly laughable. Like most 80's cartoons, Transformers was little more than an extended advertisement for a lucrative toy line. To say that they are robot standins for angels and demons is simply rubbish, since the only pieces of evidence are good guys (who are good without explanation) and bad guys (who also offer no explanation for their motives). Other than this black and white division, there are no notable religious themes. The battles are not for the souls of mankind or to serve the whims of a (known) higher power. Instead, the key conflict is over a source of power (which varies depending upon the iteration of the series). If such a shallow and poorly defined conflict and cast is a cunning attempt to portrey the eternal battle of angels and demons, then I would assert that other cartoons offered similar themes (He-Man, Thundercats, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, GI Joe and so forth).

Epoetker:

I think that Michael Bay actually occasionally watches anime, and might even occasionally read books, even if they are by Frank Peretti. I think C.S. Lewis actually read the Tao Te Ching or the life of Siddhartha Gautama (and a crapload of other books) before writing Narnia. I think that James Cameron actually plays Starcraft, Halo, or other such videogames occasionally. (Frank Peretti most definitely watched every GOOD movie George Lucas ever made.)

I fail to see how consuming media allows one to create notable things. I have consumed a great deal of media - hundreds of books and movies and video games. Yet in spite of this I have yet to make anything notable.

Epoetker:

I think that George Lucas did none of these things before making the prequels, neither reading the Star Wars books, playing the Star Wars videogames, or watching the zillion pieces of 90s sci-fi remake crap (Lost in Space, anyone?)that would have at least warned him of the direction NOT to go. His sins of commission(the prequels) were directly tied to his sins of omission(the VAST wealth of excellent stories and adaptations made from his work that near every Star Wars fan had been reading.) And thus he thought himself God of Star Wars, and that he could make great boasts without consequence or research, and yet still be taken seriously as God.

Why in gods name would the man who CREATED the thing commission someone elses idea? What part of that makes even the tiniest bit of sense. Interesting note - he IS the god of Star Wars. He created it, and the continuing works produced within the universe still require his stamp of approval.

What's more, you did not offer any reasonable support as to what he could have done differently. Most of the cited failures of the latest offerings are not ones of narrative, but rather of chracter (Jar Jar is annoying, the terrible performance of Natalie Portman, Sam Jacksons presence and so forth).

Epoetker:

And that, as C.S. Lewis might say, is why Pride is not just a sin, it's the sin. Spiritual Pride, where a creator of derivative work assumes that his attitudes on it are the most important attitudes and the only ones that must be listened to, is the very worst.

I'm entirely willing to grant George Lucas' the right to have the most important vision. Even if his vision is terrible. The reason is simple - he created it, he controls it and no other person can stake a better claim to the property.

Epoetker:

All of the inchoate fanboy rage against George Lucas is deserved. George Lucas was not simply snubbing us, he was snubbing Timothy Zahn, Kevin J. Anderson, and the entire pre-1999 group of LucasArts employees.

No, it really isn't. He made movies that people liked and thus spawned an entire universe of works that people also like. After years of either directly delivering or indirectly (through initial creation and conception) joy to the hearts of millions he then goes and does things people do not like. These new bad things do not, in any tangible way, impact those things people like. Books that people like are still made, as are games and even cartoons and collectables. If your percieved joy at such things has been dimished by Lucas' transgressions, the fault lies not on Lucas but on you. It is you afterall who must allow this thing you love to be forever tarnished by the memory of Lucas betrayal.

Epoetker:

That will be forgiven when it is actually apologized for. But I have seen no public acts of repentance, and thus I would only counsel letting the damned who refuse to be saved slip back into the mists of blessed human forgetfulness.

And I'd accept an apology if he gave it but I will not ever bother asking for one. Why would I ask this man to apologize for a few recent misteps when, for decades, he has had a direct impact on everything that I love? His movies, even when they fail, still rake in the cash so he is absolved from guilt on the business front. His movies, even at their worst, were still entertaining enough to watch and not feel as though I had been cheated so he has commited no personal grievance. His actions, even at their most damning will not magically erase my past enjoyment of Star Wars or related products so he is absolved of the rape and pillage of my childhood.

To ask him for an apology because of a percieved slight is not only unwarranted in my eyes, but also clearly represnents a misplaced sense of entitlement. Lucas doesn't owe you anything. He created things for consumption - you chose to consume it. That is the limit of the relationship between creator and consumer.

You forgot...about...INDIANA JONES!!! It's not time to forgive Lucas, he is not done yet. :P

You KNOW you're a geek (or spent too long on the Internet) when you watched Red Letter Media's review of Phantom Menace long before Moviebob posted a link to it.

Redicilous content.. <_<

While I weren't that big of a fan of the prequels, I accepted them for what they were.
The best one of the Prequels is the Revenge of the Sith but one has to watch it a few times to appriciate it.

- And I value that movie as the best Star Wars movie out of the 6 ones which makes me end up in the minority amongst the longtime fans.

What a coincidence, I was just watching the "red letter" review when I saw this thread.

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