Monster Hunter Tri

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shadowmarth:

Kavachi:

I knew someone would respond XD Maybe I got attention problems 2 :P

All right: first of all, why would there be a max time if people don't take that long to do it? And 1 hour tutorial is still bullshit, when a tutorial takes longer than 15 minutes, I stop playing (the main reason I had to try Oblivion multiple times before I finally made it through the boring tutorial, great game though). And who are you to say he didn't played long enough, did you spy on him or something?
Also you're using the same argument that every MH3 lover says: It gets better later. And as many people already said, that argument is obselete because a game that is good has to take you in from the start. That is why I still think of Oblivion as a game that needs improvements, for I almost discarded it because of the horrible start. And Yahtzee discribed a boss battle, which will spawn those bosses everywhere, and getting a gather quest for it. That is also a thing that is just plainly bad. It also reminds me of Oblivion when all those bloody Oblivion gates open. It may be fun for 1 or 2 times, but when you stand inf ront of gate 25, it gets old. I did some more research and all over the internet those main points come to light. Yahtzee only exaggurates it, that doesn't mean his review is bad, for the information he gives is still correct.

The max time is the same for every mission. 50 minutes. It's just there for the boss fights really. Most non-bigass-monster missions take 5-15 minutes. And the only times you ever bump up against the time limit is if you A) Are never hitting the damned monster because you can't keep up with it, or B) You have an incredibly shitty weapon and haven't upgraded in a half dozen monsters.

Furthermore, if you hate any game that is not immediately awesome in the first 15 minutes of playing it, you are extremely impatient and are missing out on many, many great games. In fact that precludes you from being able to enjoy whole genres. It's sad really. Don't act like we're "wrong" to like the game because we have human attention spans.

Oh dear, to get this out of the way: I am not saying that a person who likes this game is bad. As you will find in my original post is that I said he could very well like the game, but that he should not whine about somebody else's opinion, because that is basicly what you guys are doing. So who is actually saying somebody else is "wrong" here, for all you MH3 fans were the driving force to get Yahtzee to write this piece in the first place. It is not an offensive position I'm taking, it is defensive, and I'm sorry if anything I said offended you.
So, now you know how I feel about it I would find it odd if you would still take offence to me talking back in this discussion.
I'm not the only one who has a short patience, but that is because I got more stuff to do, like hanging with my buds, playing better games that don't suck in the beginning (there were pretty good examples in earlier posts). And the games that are worth playing through the tutorial I will play. (To use my example again: Oblivion). And boss-fights, like in more than one? What good tutorial is so huge that it has more than one boss-fight? I don't know you're definition of a boss-fight, but to me it is a small part at the beginning that learns you the basic controls and gameplay mechanics of the game, and I'm not sure how you need more than 15 minutes to do that.

I just loved the Prototype beggining I mean 10 seconds in your first instruction is "Throw this car at this helicopter" and one minute later "Eat this guy"

EDIT: One thing that I've just thought of, maybe Yahtzee doesn't consider the tutorial to be what you guys think the tutorial is. Like maybe you guys think it is the "Real tutorial" while Yahtzee thinks that the tutorial ends when you fight that monster that took 30 mins for him to kill? You know just throwing that out there.

golbleen:

Aylaine:
I have a question....

The whole tutorial takes x time, is that based off how fast you guys all personally did it or some generic time that everyone is magically supposed to do it by?

I spent less than a half hour on it.

The 'tutorial takes x time' figure people are repeating are most likely various personal figures with an approximate leeway for how long a slightly more or slightly less skilled player will take, compounded with the general 'feel' of the game's pacing (a vital element of its design.)

We are noting that Yahtzee's experience is an inaccurate one to demonstrate to the public, because it represents a strong statistical outlier. The common figures mentioned in this thread all vary, roughly from 30-90 minutes. No one spent nine or eleven hours on the tutorial, or even five - you would have to be extremely exceptionally slow at this rate; at which point, Yahtzee calling the game extremely exceptionally slow to take off is his own fault, not the game's, because it would have to slow down for him.

If that were the case, then yeah it would be his fault. But it would still mean all the crying about ''10 hours = lie'' is just a waste of time. I see it as unlikely, but given that he doesn't like the game, I honestly don't see it as impossible either.

shadowmarth:

Aylaine:
I have a question....

The whole tutorial takes x time, is that based off how fast you guys all personally did it or some generic time that everyone is magically supposed to do it by? If it took him 10 hours, then maybe he did do it wrong, maybe he did take forever, who knows. All I know is, everyone has their own pace. Yahtzee clearly did not like this game, so his figure is somewhat more believable for me. Just because you guys or your friends finished it in x time, doesn't mean he should have too.

Honestly, everyone is different.

True enough. But the only reason he could have possibly taken 10 hours (of course he didn't and that's an extreme exaggeration) is if he fucked around in free-roam for most of it. Which would suggest he enjoys that. But if he doesn't, he's only punishing himself, and then taking it out on the game...

Interesting, because maybe he did spend it in free roam. He dislikes the rest of the games mechanics obviously, so that very well might be what he did in order to see if there was anything more. Who knows. :/

Dorkmaster Flek:
Bullshit, this is the same excuse people made about Final Fantasy XIII. "Oh it opens up 20 hours in." Jesus titty-fucking Christ, I do not have the time to play a shitty game for 20 fucking hours before it gets good.

I'd like to rephrase that... it takes 20 - 30 hours for it to become OPEN, not good... just not linear. It really is the worst Final Fantasy in 20 years.

Yahtzee has always been one of the more honest reviewers for games, in my experience. There are some genres and games where you should learn to take what he says with a grain of salt; but usually he's right no the dot.

Perhaps Yahtzee wasnt talking about the Tutorial, but the slow points after the tutorial. After a game says "X is attack, Y is block, Z is Punch, H is heal" most of them dont throw you against endgame enemies. The "Tutorial" Phase he was referring to was the phase where the action was low, and the game was still holding your hand; atleast thats my interpretation.

Either way, hes a game Critic, he criticizes games for a living. If you had fun with Monster Hunter Tri, then Yahtzees opinion shouldnt change that (I had fun with SSBB, and thought his review to be funny).

Mindmaker:

shadowmarth:
Furthermore, if you hate any game that is not immediately awesome in the first 15 minutes of playing it, you are extremely impatient and are missing out on many, many great games. In fact that precludes you from being able to enjoy whole genres.

Exactly.
It saddens me that games in the quality of Baldurs Gate, Planescape: Torment, Fallout 1&2, The Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind and similar ones, have died out.
Games like Fallout 3 don't deserve to be called RPG, if you compare them to their ancestors.

And all that because todays games are tailored to fit such people...

See, although I agree with this, I must make one point of my own: they do need to have that quality showing, from the beginning. If you have the capability of making a great game, I can't understand why you wouldn't ensure that the first 15 minutes are at least GOOD.

I'm a writer, and when I took writing classes in college, we were regularly told "get your audience in the first paragraph (or sentence), or you won't get them". This is a fact of human nature we're dealing with here: give the viewer a reason to stay from the word go, or they won't. Period.

Yahtzee has a point. A game should be fun right away, not just after ten hours, about within ten minutes.

"I have a simple rule when playing a game to review. I play until the game is finished, or until I can't stand any more".

This statement bothered me. Critics really need to start reviewing the replay value of games. So you've complete the eight-hour story mode. What now? Are there tons of unlockables and bonuses and/or map editors? Or are you expected to put it on a shelf and never look at it again as though it were a hardcover novel? We're about to blow sixty bucks, it's worth looking at.

Caliostro:

No. Weapon degradation is never good. Ever. In any game that has ever existed or that will ever exist. It was the worst part of STALKER and the biggest reason I stopped playing it.

Really? With all the little bugs, you found a reasonably well implemented gameplay mechanic to be the most frustrating part of the game? Bit of a priorities mix-up, I think.

For the record, because I know people will mention it now that I have, yes, I thought the bugs in the game were rather annoying, but I found the rest of the game good enough that I was willing to put up with them. Although, there's a group of people who released a patch that fixes those. I downloaded it a while ago, but for some reason, my OS won't let me use it, so I can't say if it works or not.

troqu:

Kavachi:

Krimson Kun:

Kavachi:

Jonci:
I was disappointed by the bad review (not that he said the game was bad, but that he reviewed it poorly). I have a little more respect that he actually took the time to progress through to the Great Jaggi battle and get more feel for the game. I don't care if someone doesn't like Monster Hunter, as long as it is judged by more than the tutorial.

However, how the hell did you spend 10 hours on the tutorial? It's five quick gathering missions. It should take a new player 2 hours max, as in they took so long to figure out how to even draw their weapon that it would take two hours max. You can't even spend 10 hours doing them without failing due to the 50 minute time limit on missions!

A review isn't made it bad because you don't agree, and if you don't agree and you think it's just a fine game he shouldn't really get to you. So you can either just play that shitty game and enjoy yourself instead of wasting time whining about things "mean old Yahtzee" said. Why do you even bother, attention problems?

And about the tutorial. It is Yahtzee, he is known for over-exagguration. 10 hours is indeed ridiculous, however 50X5=250mins= more than 4 hours, so you're 2 hour max is pretty idiotic. However a real tutorial I think should be like the one from Brütal Legend. A 5 minute mission to roll you in, not 4 bloody hours of gathering horse shit, which probably will feel like 10 hours. So next time think before you actually post your bullshit.

so you take the maximum time to finish all the quests? it is 50 min limit, not you have to sit there for 50 min even after you finish the objective. So 2 hour max is not idiotic.

You're right, review isn't made bade because one doesn't agree, but this is really a bad one. He has played the tutorial and judged the whole game just on that little part. It took me about an hour to get there, seeing as he's a critic he was probably exploring and such so maybe that's why it took him so long, but took me an hour, shouldn't take him more than 3 even if he was fooling around a lot. But that is not the point, the point is that he is wrong on certain things that he points out in the review, and that is why the review is bad, because it gives false impressions and wrong information

I knew someone would respond XD Maybe I got attention problems 2 :P

All right: first of all, why would there be a max time if people don't take that long to do it? And 1 hour tutorial is still bullshit, when a tutorial takes longer than 15 minutes, I stop playing (the main reason I had to try Oblivion multiple times before I finally made it through the boring tutorial, great game though). And who are you to say he didn't played long enough, did you spy on him or something?
Also you're using the same argument that every MH3 lover says: It gets better later. And as many people already said, that argument is obselete because a game that is good has to take you in from the start. That is why I still think of Oblivion as a game that needs improvements, for I almost discarded it because of the horrible start. And Yahtzee discribed a boss battle, which will spawn those bosses everywhere, and getting a gather quest for it. That is also a thing that is just plainly bad. It also reminds me of Oblivion when all those bloody Oblivion gates open. It may be fun for 1 or 2 times, but when you stand inf ront of gate 25, it gets old. I did some more research and all over the internet those main points come to light. Yahtzee only exaggurates it, that doesn't mean his review is bad, for the information he gives is still correct.

To be fair the 50 minute time limit is standard for quests. Whether the quest is to go there and pick 2 flowers and return (should take you like 2 minutes max) or slay Altereon the destroyer of all. The only time it's different is when they shorten it to make some quests harder. It doesn't change the fact that if you don't enjoy the game it won't matter though.

Sorry for double post everybody, didn't see this guy.
You just said what I thought. "It doesn't change the fact that if you don'te njoy the game it won't matter though." Why do you even care what Yahtzee thinks? It may be interesting to see, but if that is your reason and you know he will rip it apart than why bother replying? What you and all MH3 fans are doing here is trying to protect you're precious game form the outside world, but why? You just said it, so why do you care. If you had a blast with that game, be happy and play in peace, but don't start bothering us for having a diffrent opinion.

It still confuses me how people get worked up over a review. Its not like ranting back will change his mind.

Seriously, why get all cranky because someone doesnt like a game?

What this game is:
A pseudo-realistic fantasy based action rpg.
A game that rewards planning, preparation, and knowledge of both weapons and monsters.
A monster killing, item creating grind-fest.

What this game isn't:
A story-based epic rpg.
A "leveling" grind-fest.
A "run up and hit the button 'til it dies" kinda deal.

On combat:
This game has a skill/timing based combat system where everything you do has an animation that can result in you getting smacked if you tried to do it right next to the monster. You can move to a different area, chug a potion, eat a ration, sharpen your weapon, then run right back in there and attack. The monsters "have" tells that they do before they do a specific attack. You can learn when and where to dodge, or block if you have a shield.

On controls and weapons:
I've played with both the Wiimote/Nunchuk and the Classic Controller Pro. Yeah, the CCP is better, but the Wiimote isn't horrible. It just takes a little getting used to. If you look at the weapons, most of them are huge. A normal person couldn't swing one, much less carry 8 of them on their person. Part of the game is finding a weapon style you like, and learning it. Each weapon has different functions too, like hammers can knock out monsters well, while lances can tip them over.

On "leveling":
Your character doesn't gain levels. You can create better weapons and armor. You can learn the monsters' moves. You can get temporarily better stats by chugging specific potions and eating tasty meat that you've cooked.

On weapon sharpening:
If you swing your sword at the "armored" back of the monster, it's going to dull faster than if you swing at its soft underbelly. The less sharp your weapon is, the less damage it does, and if it gets really dull, it starts bouncing back. Keep it sharp and it stays effective.

I'm new to the Monster Hunter series, and have gotten through about 60% of the offline game. It's not for everyone. But it's sad to see a good game not get a fun and poignant review because the reviewer didn't know what he was getting into.

tl;dr Love the game, wished there were a funnier review from Yahtzee.

Anaklusmos:

EDIT: One thing that I've just thought of, maybe Yahtzee doesn't consider the tutorial to be what you guys think the tutorial is. Like maybe you guys think it is the "Real tutorial" while Yahtzee thinks that the tutorial ends when you fight that monster that took 30 mins for him to kill? You know just throwing that out there.

That would be a logical paradox given that the entire focus on the given 'tutorial length' is that you fight that big 30-minute-long monster he was talking about on the second page near the end of it, and this is the part of the game we were expecting his review to focus on.

See, what many people fail to understand is that the 'tutorial length' argument is not about the actual length of time in the tutorial, but one of the focus of his review - the first hour, possibly two, of the game, being spent acclimating yourself to the unusual control scheme and fighting some little monsters, which quickly fades by the wayside of "taking your big-arse sword and killing a big-arse monster, make a new sword out of his spine, find a new big-arse monster, rinse, repeat" gameplay that becomes prominent past that short, one- or two-hour tutorial.

For those of you who prefer fast, action-oriented games that thrust you into the main action within fifteen minutes, those are your tastes and you're entitled to them. You also, however, have to understand that this is only a recent byproduct of the slow analagous movement of "games are like books" to "games are like movies," and many of us preferred the depths that books presented over the fast instant gratification of movies. Many famous and well-known game classics benefited greatly from this format, and took similar amounts of time to 'rev up' before getting 'really good.'

Quorothorn:

See, although I agree with this, I must make one point of my own: they do need to have that quality showing, from the beginning. If you have the capability of making a great game, I can't understand why you wouldn't ensure that the first 15 minutes are at least GOOD.

I'm a writer, and when I took writing classes in college, we were regularly told "get your audience in the first paragraph (or sentence), or you won't get them". This is a fact of human nature we're dealing with here: give the viewer a reason to stay from the word go, or they won't. Period.

That's not a fact of human nature. That's a fact of trying to appeal to a mass audience. Just because a significant portion of the population are brainless fucks doesn't mean you should write brainless drivel.

Rabid Meese:
Yahtzee has always been one of the more honest reviewers for games, in my experience. There are some genres and games where you should learn to take what he says with a grain of salt; but usually he's right no the dot.

Perhaps Yahtzee wasnt talking about the Tutorial, but the slow points after the tutorial. After a game says "X is attack, Y is block, Z is Punch, H is heal" most of them dont throw you against endgame enemies. The "Tutorial" Phase he was referring to was the phase where the action was low, and the game was still holding your hand; atleast thats my interpretation.

Either way, hes a game Critic, he criticizes games for a living. If you had fun with Monster Hunter Tri, then Yahtzees opinion shouldnt change that (I had fun with SSBB, and thought his review to be funny).

I am quoting you for two reasons, one because your points are valid and I would like to give everyone the opportunity of reading them, and two because they are similar to what I said.

J03bot:

Carnagath:
Blah blah blah, MH3 does not have a 10 hour tutorial. It has a 90 minute tutorial, unless you linger on, doing things that are unnecessary forever. Do them for a bit, explore a bit, then move on. Do you need a manual to play this game, someone to hold your hand? You don't like some elements of it, sure, I accept that, but saying it has a 10 hour tutorial is like reviewing WoW and spending your first 10 hours picking herbs and then saying "In this game you do nothing but pick herbs for the first 10 hours". That's pretty silly.

Also, WELL UP YOURS TOO, PRICK!

A manual for a game is a good thing - it means that people without a psychic link to the developer's mind can work out the controls without the embarrassing trial and error inherent in accidentally shooting a villager in the face. (Yeah, red dead redemption never actually told me how to use the dead-eye system in game, so after I inadvertently shot a helpless randomer in the face, I looked at the manual{slight dramatisation, I accidentally used it on a bandit, and it helped. I still had no idea what the hell I'd done though}).

Also, I'd allow creative exaggeration when reading anything by Yahtzee. 10 hours basically means 'way too long'. 90 minutes for a tutorial is still a bloody long time.

yes, 90 minutes is pretty damn long haha

Loonerinoes:

Carnagath:

Loonerinoes:
Con: Extra Punctuation this week somewhat less informative as usual
Pro: You get to read through all the emotional replies to an official "up yours" from Yahtzee to all the fanboys.

Noone cares about a videogame enough to be emotional about it, much less about Yahtzee. Just taking the piss, all in good fun!

We'll see how high the post count gets on this article and then we'll see how much of it is 'all in good fun' heh.

haha seemed quite emotional to me

Kavachi:

If you had a blast with that game, be happy and play in peace, but don't start bothering us for having a diffrent opinion.

The only opinion being argued is Yahtzee's.
Yahtzee's opinion is his opinion and no one else's.
Many posters in these threads did not form their own opinion, but simply took his and said it was theirs.

Ergo, very few, if any, posters here are having their personal opinion attacked. They are having the opinion of Yahtzee attacked, and feel the need to defend him since he is not present.

Kavachi:

Sorry for double post everybody, didn't see this guy.
You just said what I thought. "It doesn't change the fact that if you don'te njoy the game it won't matter though." Why do you even care what Yahtzee thinks? It may be interesting to see, but if that is your reason and you know he will rip it apart than why bother replying? What you and all MH3 fans are doing here is trying to protect you're precious game form the outside world, but why? You just said it, so why do you care. If you had a blast with that game, be happy and play in peace, but don't start bothering us for having a diffrent opinion.

I don't care what Yahtzee thinks and I wasn't trying to defend "my precious" game. I was informing you of the situation. I doubt Yahtzee even reads these comments. The point of my post was that you asked why they would give 50 minutes and I wanted to explain that it's just for continuity reasons.

Anaklusmos:
I just loved the Prototype beggining I mean 10 seconds in your first instruction is "Throw this car at this helicopter" and one minute later "Eat this guy"

EDIT: One thing that I've just thought of, maybe Yahtzee doesn't consider the tutorial to be what you guys think the tutorial is. Like maybe you guys think it is the "Real tutorial" while Yahtzee thinks that the tutorial ends when you fight that monster that took 30 mins for him to kill? You know just throwing that out there.

For me, the big "whoa" moment in Prototype was actually just running up the side of a building. I started giggling like a maniac, and knew right then which game was going to win the "Prototype vs Infamous" thing with me.

Interesting idea in your edit BTW.

I'd like to take a moment to point out that a lot of us have no problem with negative review, but the rather poor quality of the review in general. Honestly I really wonder why he bothered with this review in the first place, I could have told you well in advance that he was going to end up hating it - if you've listened to any of his other reviews it isn't hard to get a feel for what he likes and doesn't like in games, and MH3 is chock full of things he tends to not like. Really its like asking a dude who's only into action movies to give his opinion on 2001: A Space Odyssey.

Really that I think is the main trouble of Yahtzee's reviews - he really tries to make himself out to be the voice of god when it comes to what's good or bad in video games, when really its a matter of personal taste. It results in good humor, but a poor sense of the game itself. So his reviews amount to what one dude happened to think of a game - rather than having any sort of consideration about what draws people to this sort of game to begin with.

For example the whole notion of a game should stand on its single-player mode. Totally BS if a game is built strongly around its multiplayer component you can't ignore it as part of the game. It's like watching a movie and refusing to take into account certain scenes for some equally arbitrary reason - all the scenes are part of the movie, multiplayer is still part of the game.

Carnagath:

manythings:

Dorkmaster Flek:
Bullshit, this is the same excuse people made about Final Fantasy XIII. "Oh it opens up 20 hours in." Jesus titty-fucking Christ, I do not have the time to play a shitty game for 20 fucking hours before it gets good.

I've heard, from a friend whose opinion I trust, that it apparently gets good to the point of you forgiving those 25 hours. I'm not saying start playing it but it is something to keep in mind.

No, it really doesn't. FFXIII is a train wreck. At 25 hours in, it gets about 10% as good as FFXII, barely enough to make you pause the game and reminisce on a time when Final Fantasy was still good and you could lose yourself in an open living world. Then it quickly becomes terrible again, kind of mocking you, like, "NAHHHH, we were just kidding, we just sneaked that part in to put some screenshots on the box that would fool people into thinking the game is good. Back to your corridor."

i never thought Id meet someone that could properly describe my experience with FF13 until now. I stopped playing that 35 hours in when I had to fight some boss I fought a different variation of already way earlier. Up until that point I saw ever variation of the hall one could possibly imagine there were halls, bridges, highways, trains, alleys, caves, mines, valleys, crevasses etc. even the towns somehow had no freedom in there.

As for the actual article my first thoughts went back to ff13 when I heard it gets better after the tutorial. To paraphrase from one of my friends "If a game is so bad that I never want to play it again after playing for 2 hours why play it even more to hope it gets better" there really shouldnt be any suffering through a bad part of a game when playing a game it's supposed to be a fun activity not a slog in the hopes of it later becoming fun

troqu:

Kavachi:

Sorry for double post everybody, didn't see this guy.
You just said what I thought. "It doesn't change the fact that if you don'te njoy the game it won't matter though." Why do you even care what Yahtzee thinks? It may be interesting to see, but if that is your reason and you know he will rip it apart than why bother replying? What you and all MH3 fans are doing here is trying to protect you're precious game form the outside world, but why? You just said it, so why do you care. If you had a blast with that game, be happy and play in peace, but don't start bothering us for having a diffrent opinion.

I don't care what Yahtzee thinks and I wasn't trying to defend "my precious" game. I was informing you of the situation. I doubt Yahtzee even reads these comments. The point of my post was that you asked why they would give 50 minutes and I wanted to explain that it's just for continuity reasons.

Alright, I get it. And btw, I also doubt if he reads the comment, I was just trying to discuss the situation with you. And if that was your only reason, why did you add that last critical sentence to it?

Why does he keep reviewing games that are intended to be multiplayer experiences? I don't understand why he keeps doing it? If you want some freshly squeezed apple juice you don't buy oranges.

wondrous rant! indeed glorious! XD

nicodeemus327:
Why does he keep reviewing games that are intended to be multiplayer experiences? I don't understand why he keeps doing it? If you want some freshly squeezed apple juice you don't buy oranges.

pretty sure the escaptist has some say as to what games he reviews. possibly a given list to choose from.

As he has said may times b4 a game should never be judged by its MP experience. If so why have a singleplayer mode :) if playing alone isn't good enough, the game simply isn't good enough!

hopes he does Red Dead soon (at least i think he hasn't x_X)

Kavachi:

troqu:

Kavachi:

Sorry for double post everybody, didn't see this guy.
You just said what I thought. "It doesn't change the fact that if you don'te njoy the game it won't matter though." Why do you even care what Yahtzee thinks? It may be interesting to see, but if that is your reason and you know he will rip it apart than why bother replying? What you and all MH3 fans are doing here is trying to protect you're precious game form the outside world, but why? You just said it, so why do you care. If you had a blast with that game, be happy and play in peace, but don't start bothering us for having a diffrent opinion.

I don't care what Yahtzee thinks and I wasn't trying to defend "my precious" game. I was informing you of the situation. I doubt Yahtzee even reads these comments. The point of my post was that you asked why they would give 50 minutes and I wanted to explain that it's just for continuity reasons.

Alright, I get it. And btw, I also doubt if he reads the comment, I was just trying to discuss the situation with you. And if that was your only reason, why did you add that last critical sentence to it?

I added that sentence because I don't like shoving my opinion down peoples throats just like I don't like having peoples opinions shoved down mine. It was there mostly as a disclaimer that no matter what I said won't make the game magically better for anyone. Sorry if that's not how you read it.

Quorothorn:
I do love how all the MHT defenders are focusing exclusively on the "tutorial = 10 hours" thing. Because when your argument rests entirely on a literal approach to one particular bit of exaggeration in someone's article, you know you have righteousness on your side, for certain sure.

And I do love how all the Yahtzee fanboys claim that he was "just exaggerating" whenever he posts fallacies. What else do you want us to focus on anyway dude? His complaint that "weapons break"? You really expect people to grace such a petty complaint with a reply? Making weapons break less is part of the character progression in MH3. You don't like it and want to call a game shit because of it? Ok. Whatever. Then Mass Effect is also shit, because you don't have infinite ammo and have to reload your weapons. Everyone knows that reloading is pointless and tedious and, to paraphrase Yahztee's article, if you are fighting an enemy and your clip is empty, you have to choose between running away in order to reload and risk having the enemies ruin your shit, or you can just sit there and stare at them. Except, if you actually claim that Mass Effect is shit because of that, people will call you an idiot and be RIGHT, while with Moster Hunter they are just fanboys.

So I was right. Yahtzee just phoned that video in. See that part in the article about fighting a Great Jaggi. That was comedic potential right there. If this were the main part of the last episode, it would've been probably more funny and less boring.
Also I can only laugh at the 10 hour reference. Seriously? Try 2 if you suck.

golbleen:

Kavachi:

If you had a blast with that game, be happy and play in peace, but don't start bothering us for having a diffrent opinion.

The only opinion being argued is Yahtzee's.
Yahtzee's opinion is his opinion and no one else's.
Many posters in these threads did not form their own opinion, but simply took his and said it was theirs.

Ergo, very few, if any, posters here are having their personal opinion attacked. They are having the opinion of Yahtzee attacked, and feel the need to defend him since he is not present.

*applause* Well that is some nice back-up you got there. But let's go even further back. Why did Yahtzee actually put this in his Extra Punctuation? Because you guys attacked his opinion. So, he is present, else he would never made that XP. Also, if you did like the game, why would you "attack", like you call it, Yahtzee's opinion. The main thing I hear you MH3 fans scream is that we should just fuck off if we don't like the game, but who actually started if Yahtzee's opinion was attacked? Right, you and the rest of those MH3 fans.
Also, I do have my own opinion, but as many times, Yahtzee knows to hit it right on the spot, so I don't defend HIS opinion, I just tell you guys what I'm thinking, and that's indeed very similair to Yahtzee's opinion.

Quorothorn:

Mindmaker:

shadowmarth:
Furthermore, if you hate any game that is not immediately awesome in the first 15 minutes of playing it, you are extremely impatient and are missing out on many, many great games. In fact that precludes you from being able to enjoy whole genres.

Exactly.
It saddens me that games in the quality of Baldurs Gate, Planescape: Torment, Fallout 1&2, The Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind and similar ones, have died out.
Games like Fallout 3 don't deserve to be called RPG, if you compare them to their ancestors.

And all that because todays games are tailored to fit such people...

See, although I agree with this, I must make one point of my own: they do need to have that quality showing, from the beginning. If you have the capability of making a great game, I can't understand why you wouldn't ensure that the first 15 minutes are at least GOOD.

I'm a writer, and when I took writing classes in college, we were regularly told "get your audience in the first paragraph (or sentence), or you won't get them". This is a fact of human nature we're dealing with here: give the viewer a reason to stay from the word go, or they won't. Period.

But in my opinion it does show quality.
I really can't understand what the people are complaining about.
The tutorial was really neat, showed you what this game is all about and gave you a prospect of what is yet to come (the giant sea monster that ambushes you).
I can understand if this some kind of general hate against tutorials, since most people also ignore the manual(I read it and miss the time when they used to be quite extensive).

I can agree with your book example to some degree.
I've read a lot of books, some of which started off fairly slow.
I even bought myself the extenden version of "The Stand", which promised to have an interesting plot, but even I couldn't get myself to read to the part where it started to get good.
But this is an extreme, nothing that can be compared with MH3.

troqu:

Kavachi:

troqu:

Kavachi:

Sorry for double post everybody, didn't see this guy.
You just said what I thought. "It doesn't change the fact that if you don'te njoy the game it won't matter though." Why do you even care what Yahtzee thinks? It may be interesting to see, but if that is your reason and you know he will rip it apart than why bother replying? What you and all MH3 fans are doing here is trying to protect you're precious game form the outside world, but why? You just said it, so why do you care. If you had a blast with that game, be happy and play in peace, but don't start bothering us for having a diffrent opinion.

I don't care what Yahtzee thinks and I wasn't trying to defend "my precious" game. I was informing you of the situation. I doubt Yahtzee even reads these comments. The point of my post was that you asked why they would give 50 minutes and I wanted to explain that it's just for continuity reasons.

Alright, I get it. And btw, I also doubt if he reads the comment, I was just trying to discuss the situation with you. And if that was your only reason, why did you add that last critical sentence to it?

I added that sentence because I don't like shoving my opinion down peoples throats just like I don't like having peoples opinions shoved down mine. It was there mostly as a disclaimer that no matter what I said won't make the game magically better for anyone. Sorry if that's not how you read it.

But don't you see that what you were doing trying to describe the situation is shoving your opinion down our throats? And if you really believe that, why would you even write your reply as you already said it won't make the game magically better. And besides, if you don't like having an opinion shoved down you're throad, why did you even bother comming to the comments section on a REVIEW, cause all review comments are opinions ready for some throat-shoving.

Why is the world talking about Shadow of the collossus and Ico the past weeks?
Im agonised for not having it!!!

Carnagath:

Quorothorn:
I do love how all the MHT defenders are focusing exclusively on the "tutorial = 10 hours" thing. Because when your argument rests entirely on a literal approach to one particular bit of exaggeration in someone's article, you know you have righteousness on your side, for certain sure.

And I do love how all the Yahtzee fanboys claim that he was "just exaggerating" whenever he posts fallacies. What else do you want us to focus on anyway dude? His complaint that "weapons break"? You really expect people to grace such a petty complaint with a reply? Making weapons break less is part of the character progression in MH3. You don't like it and want to call a game shit because of it? Ok. Whatever. Then Mass Effect is also shit, because you don't have infinite ammo and have to reload your weapons. Everyone knows that reloading is pointless and tedious and, to paraphrase Yahztee's article, if you are fighting an enemy and your clip is empty, you have to choose between running away in order to reload and risk having the enemies ruin your shit, or you can just sit there and stare at them. Except, if you actually claim that Mass Effect is shit because of that, people will call you an idiot and be RIGHT, while with Moster Hunter they are just fanboys.

Mass Effect 1 doesn't need you to reload...and if you refer to Mass Effect 2, that one happens to have a decent alternative whenever you need to reload. A decent melee attack.

Now you're just selectively picking Yahtzee's statements from various games and putting them into totally different contexts just to 'win' this argument.

You should chill out. Because you *are* getting worked up about this. No really...quit lying to yourself, you are.

Kavachi:

But don't you see that what you were doing trying to describe the situation is shoving your opinion down our throats? And if you really believe that, why would you even write your reply as you already said it won't make the game magically better. And besides, if you don't like having an opinion shoved down you're throad, why did you even bother comming to the comments section on a REVIEW, cause all review comments are opinions ready for some throat-shoving.

I disagree that commenting on a review is all about opinions, but since that's your view on it, all discussion in the world is just about throwing your opinions in someones face. Stating an something doesn't mean I'm trying to make my opinion yours. Either way we're done here. I'll be awaiting your eventual reply, but know that I won't respond to this line of conversation anymore because it's just going to become a flame war if it continues. I'm sorry that you feel so differently from me on this matter.

troqu:

Kavachi:

But don't you see that what you were doing trying to describe the situation is shoving your opinion down our throats? And if you really believe that, why would you even write your reply as you already said it won't make the game magically better. And besides, if you don't like having an opinion shoved down you're throad, why did you even bother comming to the comments section on a REVIEW, cause all review comments are opinions ready for some throat-shoving.

I disagree that commenting on a review is all about opinions, but since that's your view on it, all discussion in the world is just about throwing your opinions in someones face. Stating an something doesn't mean I'm trying to make my opinion yours. Either way we're done here. I'll be awaiting your eventual reply, but know that I won't respond to this line of conversation anymore because it's just going to become a flame war if it continues. I'm sorry that you feel so differently from me on this matter.

All right, gotta give it to you, you are right there, we're not gonna change our minds and this is pointless. Greetings, 'till we meet again.

Kavachi:

*applause* Well that is some nice back-up you got there. But let's go even further back. Why did Yahtzee actually put this in his Extra Punctuation? Because you guys attacked his opinion. So, he is present, else he would never made that XP.

Right. So why do Yahtzee's fans need to continue defending him? It's clear he could continue this dialogue as long as he wanted, without your help.

Kavachi:

Also, if you did like the game, why would you "attack", like you call it, Yahtzee's opinion.

Because it's based off of false and misconstrued facts.

Kavachi:

The main thing I hear you MH3 fans scream is that we should just fuck off if we don't like the game, but who actually started if Yahtzee's opinion was attacked? Right, you and the rest of those MH3 fans.

The main thing I hear from you Yahtzee fans is the Strawman Fallacy, which happens to be why this section of your post is wrong. Please stop using it and we can continue an intelligent dialogue at a future date.

Kavachi:

Also, I do have my own opinion, but as many times, Yahtzee knows to hit it right on the spot, so I don't defend HIS opinion, I just tell you guys what I'm thinking, and that's indeed very similair to Yahtzee's opinion.

This is a similar phenomenon to how horoscopes profit off of their followers; the psychological effect known as confirmation bias. Effectively, your mind analyzes his opinion but only grasps the vague key points he mentions that agree with yours, therefore projecting yourself onto him in a sort of idealization and discarding matter his review produces that doesn't fit into this 'right on the spot' opinion that you 'share.'

It is impossible for your opinion and Mr. Croshaw's opinion on any single given subject matter to be perfectly contiguous. Multiple slight or even major deviations are bound to exist out of the billions of people in the world that exist, with various points and counterpoints all weighted differently, creating incongruities.

Basically, MHtri fans don't care about your opinion. They care about Yahtzee's, because he has a public speaking medium that others project onto in doubt, giving him a by-and-large somewhat dangerous amount of control over the gaming medium, if left uncriticized.

Kavachi:

Also, I do have my own opinion, but as many times, Yahtzee knows to hit it right on the spot, so I don't defend HIS opinion, I just tell you guys what I'm thinking, and that's indeed very similair to Yahtzee's opinion.

Wait, how is it possible to have a opinion on a game you havn't played?

At best you can have a opinion on other opinions...

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