E3 Killjoy 2010

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i think that if X-COM would be remade in the same style as the original people would cry "rehash!" and whine about how the industry is DEEEEAAAAAD.

Seriously, i'm looking forward to X-COM.

Shamus Young:
The Old Republic

*Puts hands over ears*

Lalalala I can't hear you! I can't hear you!

The main game I was hyped about for E3 (and am even more so now) was Portal 2, good luck trying to kill my excitement for that. =D

Shamus Young:
X-COM

I don't think ANYONE was excited about X-COM at this point... At least not anyone who was excited based on the premise of being X-COM and has enough contact with the media to read websites. This new game seems as related to X-COM as Alpha Protocol would to a new Hitman... It has guns, you shoot things, that's it. As you pointed out, they didn't even get the guns right. It might be a good game by itself, but as an X-COM game, I don't see how it could be anything other than a monumental failure.

Shamus Young:
TOR

Everyone already pointed out that there are gameplay videos, BUT, I will agree to one thing: their presence on E3 was weaksauce. Why go to E3 just to show meaningless cinematics? It does seem like a cover up for something that didn't go quite according to plan. That's almost always the case when the previews are entirely cinematics. I'm a bit skeptical about TOR myself, but let's see how it goes.

Shamus Young:
Motion Controls

I'm going to partially disagree with you. As it stands right now, motion controllers are nothing but a gimmick. If anything, Kinect has some potential to be something else, but I don't see it... Motion controls without physical feedback... are just... weird and unimmersive. The Wii has been out for 4 years now and has yet to make a single decent use of it in my book.

It was a worthy experiment that simply failed.

RobfromtheGulag:

Maybe it's just me, but has there EVER been a good star wars video game?

Knights of the Old Republic and Jedi Knight series.

RobfromtheGulag:
It's invigorating to see how many sequels are being hyped as opposed to original games.

I'm with Shamus on the motion controls. I'm not against them, but they definitely have a time and a place. Playing Resident Evil on the DS with an added first person Knife Fight Mode just to utilize the stylus was a real motivation killer.

I just beat DAO and thought the world of Bioware. I considered getting Mass Effect, but rationalized that I don't like outer-space much. So I was skeptical when I saw these articles about their claims for the new Star Wars MMO. Then I beat DAO-A, and realized that in the end they're a company and have to make money. Releasing [unnecessary] sequels that don't stack up, or making claims about an MMO that's failed once already (Star Wars Galaxies) are part of the business.

Maybe it's just me, but has there EVER been a good star wars video game? I guess the "Super -fill in the title-" games were solid, back on the SNES, but since then I've been 100% content in hindsight to steer clear of any Star Wars game.

Dark Forces comes to mind. I mean, granted it's one of the earliest Doom clones, but, it still held up. Jedi Knight is a drifting maybe, and so is Empire at War.

From what little I know of it, SWG tried (and failed) to do something different at least. What little I've seen of ToR only appealed to me in the basest "you can haz lightsaber" kind of way. Beyond that it struck me as every other MMO that tries to replicate WoW's popularity.

That's a pretty disingenuous respresentation of AC: Brotherhood there considering how small a percentage of total sales of AC2 were on the PC.

It least us Australians get the advantage of a nearly endless number of reviews by the time things come out retail here :D

Would you stop knocking X-COM already? Jeez

It's like all you people forgot X-COM Interceptor, X-COM Enforcer or all the UFO titles that followed them till up to 2007 like UFO Afterlight, UFO Aftermath, UFO Aftershock and UFO Extraterrestrials...

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X-COM is a brand that has been "run into the ground" already, and they can't destroy anything that was destroyed already, it looks like a legitimately good game in its own right and might surprise some of you...

Also, read this article (click the images to enlarge), it'll make you feel better about the game:
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Caliostro:

Shamus Young:
X-COM

I don't think ANYONE was excited about X-COM at this point... At least not anyone who was excited based on the premise of being X-COM and has enough contact with the media to read websites. This new game seems as related to X-COM as Alpha Protocol would to a new Hitman... It has guns, you shoot things, that's it. As you pointed out, they didn't even get the guns right. It might be a good game by itself, but as an X-COM game, I don't see how it could be anything other than a monumental failure.

You were already ninjaed.

Hyper-space:
i think that if X-COM would be remade in the same style as the original people would cry "rehash!" and whine about how the industry is DEEEEAAAAAD.

Seriously, i'm looking forward to X-COM.

What I can't tell you is if people like Hyper-Space here are fans of the original or not. But I kinda doubt it. There's nothing wrong with "revitalizing" a franchise, but, yeah, there's nothing here but the name, it's like resurrecting your lost love as a zombie. Why do it at all?

Caliostro:

Shamus Young:
TOR

Everyone already pointed out that there are gameplay videos, BUT, I will agree to one thing: their presence on E3 was weaksauce. Why go to E3 just to show meaningless cinematics? It does seem like a cover up for something that didn't go quite according to plan. That's almost always the case when the previews are entirely cinematics. I'm a bit skeptical about TOR myself, but let's see how it goes.

It could just be my own paranoia, but, my impression is something has gone horribly horribly wrong here. I remember when Oblivion got a hands on at it's last E3. There it was, go anywhere, do anything, just don't go through the oblivion gates. Granted Bethesda and Bioware are very different companies with very different design philosophies, but, the "hands-on" ToR received a couple months ago, and then this at E3? Either Bioware thinks they're the best thing since the Beatles, or something's gone horribly wrong, and they're scrambling to cover their asses.

I cut the part on motion controls because I had nothing to add.

Caliostro:

RobfromtheGulag:

Maybe it's just me, but has there EVER been a good star wars video game?

Knights of the Old Republic and Jedi Knight series.

Kotor's on the edge. The pacing is a wreck, you spend (on average) eight hours kicking around the first planet before you get to the Jedi stuff, and the meat of the game. Even then you have another 2 - 4 hours of locked in content before you can start wandering the galaxy.

The gameplay is (mostly) faithful to D20, which is to say, more than a tad bit random, which means you spend a lot of time not hitting anyone. It doesn't have the fluidity of NWN nor the role-playing depth of Kotor2.

From a roleplaying standpoint you're stuck with the Bioware standards of either being a humorless stick in the mud with almost no personality (also known as lawful stupid) or choosing chaotic stupid asshole and fucking everyone over for shits and grins.

On a character standpoint we have Bastila, who has carbon copied her personality of Aribeth while becoming, strangely, even more annoying and self righteous. And who is so popular around the Bioware offices they decided to put her in every subsequent game except Mass Effect 1. And Carth, the whinny neurotic whackjob of a pilot.

So, all KotOR really has going is really the Sixth Sense reveal, which works about as well as it did in the Sixth Sense.

Jedi Outcast and Academy are also wrecks. Though Academy is something of an improvement as it lets you avoid some of the more bullshit maps if you want.

Starke:
So, all KotOR really has going is really the Sixth Sense reveal, which works about as well as it did in the Sixth Sense.

Wait, Revan is a ghost?

"Twenty years ago we didn't have force feedback, pressure-sensitive buttons, or thumbsticks."

It was 20 years ago that Mouse and keyboard first came into use in Computer Games (1990) and no advance in console controls I've seen since offer any tangible advantage over that setup.

I'll agree analogue sticks have been an improvement but I only ever found force-feedback (rumble) as distracting, extremely rare is it ever useful and certainly doesn't add to the immersion in a game. Muscle memory is vital for fast controls, rumble disrupts that with varying sensory feedback, the button press and hold should always feel the same.

Also don't see the benefit of pressure sensitive buttons. MGS2 used pressure sensitive buttons to AIM with soft press and Fire with hard press but it was a pain in the arse. Buttons clearly don't benefit as much from being pressure sensitive. Much better to make them as crisp and easiest to press quickly, rapidly with the best timing.

Analogue triggers seem to be an improvement but ONLY if for Analogue/Continuous input like acceleration or braking (not attacks like triggers pulls, those are discrete binary actions). Though Racing Wheels and pedals have been used in gaming almost as long (since early 90's).

Yeah, 20 years and hardly any improvement in control interfaces at all, or at least that's the way I see it. Just different plugs/sockets and slight improvement in precision from new sensors.

RhomCo:

Starke:
So, all KotOR really has going is really the Sixth Sense reveal, which works about as well as it did in the Sixth Sense.

Wait, Revan is a ghost?

Wait, Bruce Willis is Jedi Master!? O.o

That page you linked to prove the Kinect doesn't come with any games and costs $150 doesn't say any of that.

For one thing, it says nothing about cost, and for another, there is nothing there that says what is packaged with the device.

I'm sure 5 months before the Xbox 360 came out they didn't have details on what individual games would be packaged with each version of the console, and to show absence of detail as proof of absence of package deals just doesn't really make sense.

Not G. Ivingname:

Shamus Young:
Experienced Points: E3 Killjoy 2010

Shamus Young explains why everything you're getting hyped about from E3 2010 might suck.

Read Full Article

Odd, you didn't take one jab at the 3DS, games going to be on Nintendo consoles, or anything related to Nintendo. You leaving stuff for Yahtzee or do you have no problem with anything they have done?

The big Nintendo stuff was all about the 3DS, and I just don't use portables. My hands are too big and the screens are too tiny and I never leave the house anyway.

They're just not on my radar.

DarthLurtz:
That page you linked to prove the Kinect doesn't come with any games and costs $150 doesn't say any of that.

For one thing, it says nothing about cost, and for another, there is nothing there that says what is packaged with the device.

I'm sure 5 months before the Xbox 360 came out they didn't have details on what individual games would be packaged with each version of the console, and to show absence of detail as proof of absence of package deals just doesn't really make sense.

Halfway down the page. Expand the "what comes in the box" thing.

The $150 price tag was covered here earlier this week.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/101444-Retailers-Guess-150-Price-for-Kinect

And even if the Kinect came with "Wii Sports" (or whatever they're calling it) $150 is just too dang much for a controller if they're hoping to steal the Wii market.

Shamus Young:

Not G. Ivingname:

Shamus Young:
Experienced Points: E3 Killjoy 2010

Shamus Young explains why everything you're getting hyped about from E3 2010 might suck.

Read Full Article

Odd, you didn't take one jab at the 3DS, games going to be on Nintendo consoles, or anything related to Nintendo. You leaving stuff for Yahtzee or do you have no problem with anything they have done?

The big Nintendo stuff was all about the 3DS, and I just don't use portables. My hands are too big and the screens are too tiny and I never leave the house anyway.

They're just not on my radar.

Ok...

But you still didn't mention any of the wii exclusives like Kirby: Epic Yarn or the Goldeneye Remake.

Yeah, I saw that part. But nothing has been confirmed yet by Microsoft either for the possibility of a bundle, or for what the price will be, so even with all of these stores guessing about it, there aren't really any solid facts on the subject.

And that's $50 more dollars for the Wii (if we go for the rumored price), but without the need to ever buy another accessory. (Adding a second wiimote and nunchuck would cost $60)

So going with the theory that Kinect is $150.00 with no games, you'd pay $150 for Kinect and $40 for one of the minigames, or $260 for A Wii and two controllers.

$50 less than a Wii for the same amount of stuff. It's only an add-on, but if you already own an Xbox, you're golden.

Regarding ToR (all from this years E3)

Star Wars: The Old Republic Ingame Stage Demo:
http://e3.g4tv.com/videos/46527/E3-2010-Live-Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-MMO-Combat-Demo/?quality=hd
http://e3.g4tv.com/videos/46580/E3-2010-Live-Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-Origin-Planet-Demo/?quality=hd

Other Gameplay-Trailers (most of them story intensive and show a lot of dialogue):
Lighsaber-Gameplay, Trooper-Gameplay, Field Action-Gameplay, Bounty Armor

Aside of those and all the "mainstream shooters" there was a lot of good stuff at the E3 this year:

Portal 2 naturally...

Deathspank looked really good and funny, I really hope its gonna come out for PC and (knowing EA) I think it will somewhat later.

Ubisoft's Rayman Origins with Classic 2D graphics, made in a comic style/humorous way and their Project Dust which could best be described as a Remake of Populous with awesome graphics are also promising.

The Swarm looks cool, a new Lemmings with likewise adorable characters to slice into pieces and send to their death xD

If you know Machinarium, LIMBO looks similarly surprising and artistically designed.

The guys behind Zeno Clash announced Rock of Ages , the Trailer alone which lets one see gameplay made me laugh my ass off at the concept of it (and its build around art history epochs)

I Am Alive and Deus Ex 3 also both looks intriguing, but there's no Gameplay to make an own opinion about from yet...

While Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light really isn't a Tomb Raider game, it looks like it might be a surprisingly well done and fun Co-Op game.

Same goes for Trine 2 , which also looks wonderful (and a lot better than the first) and has Online Co-Op.

And Monkey Island 2: Special Edition totally blew me away (Commentaries, Original Artwork, Verb Wheel, being able to turn on/off stuff like voices in the classic game etc. etc.): http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/30068 and it'll be out July the 7th (can't wait xD)

Add to that the awesomeness RAGE is probably going to be:
http://e3.g4tv.com/videos/46674/E3-2010-Live-Hands-On-Rage-Overview-Demo/?quality=hd
http://e3.g4tv.com/videos/46676/E3-2010-Live-Rage-Mission-Demo/?quality=hd

Shamus Young:
Experienced Points: E3 Killjoy 2010

Shamus Young explains why everything you're getting hyped about from E3 2010 might suck.

Read Full Article

a little sidenote about Ubisoft:
Michael Jackson is (apparently) a great way to make everyone forget about a broken security mesure XD

I tend to agree with most of what you said other than the bit about "Old Republic" because as people have shown, there is plenty of game play footage out there. Still, I DO admit that we're not seeming a demonstration of a lot of the more esoteric features they mention, which gives me a sort of "Age Of Conan" vibe where it seems 90% of what they were hyping turned out to be a lie.

The new X-com seems pathetic to be honest. Truthfully the third X-com game DID take place in a sort of odd retro-future city, but given that game was more or less a train wreck it surprises me they want to revisit that vibe. I suspect they simply want to use the franchise name to get attention, and are hoping to try and cash in on the vibe popularized by "Fallout" and "Bioshock".

To some extent I think we can blame "Fallout 3" for this. Fallout 3 was a REALLY good game but more or less butchered 99% of what Fallout was about despite being presented as a sequel. This is something that has been upsetting RPG fans for a while (as I'm sure we're all aware). I'm guessing the guys doing X-com also figure that they can butcher 99% of X-Com, turn it from a strategy game into a pseudo shooter themselves (sort of like Fallout 3 did) and haul that nostolgia cash away in dump trucks. What's more I think that we're going to see more and more of this in upcoming years because of this one game that did well.

I'd also point out this is not the first attempt to do an action based X-com game, we've also seen "X-com: Enforcer" which was ANOTHER train wreck.

-

Oh and one final note, a good portion of what "Old Republic Online" is promising has been done before. The bit about having your own followers seems easily workable based on what we've seen with "Sword Of The New World" (which had some neat ideas, but was a horrendous cash grab) and the cancelled "Gods and Heroes" game which I was in beta for before it went down.

Age Of Conan also managed to deliver on the dialogue filled cut scenes and such, at least during the intro area. I'm guessing what "Old Republic" is promising is to do that for the entire game, and recording all of the dialoge and such is probably a good part of why the development is taking so long.

Honestly my concerns over "Old Republic" have been balance based. It seems to be being set up to make playing the good guys a giant jip yet again. Almost everything released so far has been a glorified Sith cheerleading section. This ranges from the cinematics, to most of the gameplay footage. Not only do the Jedi/good guys get whomped on heavily (even in the latest trailer the Sith are *much* cooler and apparently more effective, even if the good guys win in the end), but the characters are also VERY generic compared to the bad guys.

Right now it seems a lot like what hurt "Warhammer Online" where everyone one Destruction because Destruction was simply much cooler, much more powerful, and much better/more interestingly developed. You could see this coming for months and it was proven beyond a doubt when you saw the numbers in the "Road to war" promotion.

The point of this rambling is that I am really looking forward to this game, but for all of the "pure awesome" it radiates at time, I also get a feeling of deja vu. People are right to be critical of this game, but not for the reasons most people are focusing on.

"World Of Warcraft" got away with Alliance being "one of the biggest gips in gaming" (to quote Penny Arcade) because it was the first game of it's kind to take the factional approach, and honestly it took people a long time to figure out the problems, and by then it was really too late to fix anything in an effective fashion because of pure inertia. When it comes to new games though people are going to be more picky, and look for these problems. To put it into perspective people didn't tolerate it the same way when it came to "Warhammer" in part because players figured the developers should have known better, and there are simply tons of other games out there right now.

My #1 concern is "Old Republic" dying due to "Alliance Syndrome" so to speak.

None of the things I'm excited about were covered in your article, so... yeah. Hurray for me?

Therumancer:
I tend to agree with most of what you said other than the bit about "Old Republic" because as people have shown, there is plenty of game play footage out there. Still, I DO admit that we're not seeming a demonstration of a lot of the more esoteric features they mention, which gives me a sort of "Age Of Conan" vibe where it seems 90% of what they were hyping turned out to be a lie.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who picked up on this. (My experience with AoC was a couple months ago, so I can't comment on that, sorry.)

Therumancer:
The new X-com seems pathetic to be honest. Truthfully the third X-com game DID take place in a sort of odd retro-future city, but given that game was more or less a train wreck it surprises me they want to revisit that vibe. I suspect they simply want to use the franchise name to get attention, and are hoping to try and cash in on the vibe popularized by "Fallout" and "Bioshock".

To some extent I think we can blame "Fallout 3" for this. Fallout 3 was a REALLY good game but more or less butchered 99% of what Fallout was about despite being presented as a sequel. This is something that has been upsetting RPG fans for a while (as I'm sure we're all aware). I'm guessing the guys doing X-com also figure that they can butcher 99% of X-Com, turn it from a strategy game into a pseudo shooter themselves (sort of like Fallout 3 did) and haul that nostolgia cash away in dump trucks. What's more I think that we're going to see more and more of this in upcoming years because of this one game that did well.

I'm not completely convinced, I mean, in theory, yeah, and you're probably right. But Fallout 3 at least attempted to preserve the setting of the Fallout games. It bjorked it up pretty baddly, but it was still a post-apocalyptic wasteland with deathclaws, super mutants and Brotherhood of Steel wandering about.

This looks like all that's been carried over is Aliens and the name. So if there's a Fallout analogy to be made, I suspect the XBox/PS2 action game is probably a better fit as an analogy... except it wasn't successful...

Therumancer:
I'd also point out this is not the first attempt to do an action based X-com game, we've also seen "X-com: Enforcer" which was ANOTHER train wreck.

*Clutches his head and whimpers*

Therumancer:

-

Oh and one final note, a good portion of what "Old Republic Online" is promising has been done before. The bit about having your own followers seems easily workable based on what we've seen with "Sword Of The New World" (which had some neat ideas, but was a horrendous cash grab) and the cancelled "Gods and Heroes" game which I was in beta for before it went down.

For that matter Star Trek Online, Guild Wars and D&D Online all have NPC followers. STO and GW both allow you to develop them and customize them to your liking. (I'm not sure about DDO)

Therumancer:
Age Of Conan also managed to deliver on the dialogue filled cut scenes and such, at least during the intro area. I'm guessing what "Old Republic" is promising is to do that for the entire game, and recording all of the dialoge and such is probably a good part of why the development is taking so long.

It also suggests, and this is just my crackpot theory here, that the amount of content for TOR will always be anemic. If you're going to be burning that much money for every update, the game's dev cycle will grind to a halt. And, in this, MMOs are like Sharks: if they stop updating they drown and die.

I find it a little hard to believe that Bioware's really ready to simply let the game's dev cycle keep running indefinitely.

Therumancer:
Honestly my concerns over "Old Republic" have been balance based. It seems to be being set up to make playing the good guys a giant jip yet again. Almost everything released so far has been a glorified Sith cheerleading section. This ranges from the cinematics, to most of the gameplay footage. Not only do the Jedi/good guys get whomped on heavily (even in the latest trailer the Sith are *much* cooler and apparently more effective, even if the good guys win in the end), but the characters are also VERY generic compared to the bad guys.

To an extent that might be the license shooting them in the foot. Visually the villains of Star Wars have always been interesting than the heroes. Not that this helps Bioware or the game in the slightest, it's just an observation.

Therumancer:
Right now it seems a lot like what hurt "Warhammer Online" where everyone one chose Destruction because Destruction was they were simply much cooler, much more powerful, and much better/more interestingly developed. You could see this coming for months and it was proven beyond a doubt when you saw the numbers in the "Road to war" promotion.

Having not played Warhammer Online, I'm guessing Distruction was the faction that included Greenskins, Dark Elves and Chaos?

Conceptually this might work if it was executed the way LotR Online handled monster characters, or STO handled (initially) Klingons, but, I'm guessing that's not the case.

EDIT: The editing in that earlier block of yours wasn't to be snarky, I was honestly having a hard time parsing what you wrote. If I got it wrong, then I apologize.

Therumancer:
The point of this rambling is that I am really looking forward to this game, but for all of the "pure awesome" it radiates at time, I also get a feeling of deja vu. People are right to be critical of this game, but not for the reasons most people are focusing on.

The pure awesomeness is taunting me with it's potential, I'm just not sure it will deliver.

Therumancer:
"World Of Warcraft" got away with Alliance being "one of the biggest gips in gaming" (to quote Penny Arcade) because it was the first game of it's kind to take the factional approach, and honestly it took people a long time to figure out the problems, and by then it was really too late to fix anything in an effective fashion because of pure inertia. When it comes to new games though people are going to be more picky, and look for these problems. To put it into perspective people didn't tolerate it the same way when it came to "Warhammer" in part because players figured the developers should have known better, and there are simply tons of other games out there right now.

My #1 concern is "Old Republic" dying due to "Alliance Syndrome" so to speak.

Okay, please forgive my ignorance, but, what is "Alliance Syndrome?"

Hyper-space:
i think that if X-COM would be remade in the same style as the original people would cry "rehash!" and whine about how the industry is DEEEEAAAAAD.

Seriously, i'm looking forward to X-COM.

UFO: Extraterrestrial actually had this cited against it in a review I read.

Dexter111:
Would you stop knocking X-COM already? Jeez

It's like all you people forgot X-COM Interceptor, X-COM Enforcer or all the UFO titles that followed them till up to 2007 like UFO Afterlight, UFO Aftermath, UFO Aftershock and UFO Extraterrestrials...

image image
image image image image

X-COM is a brand that has been "run into the ground" already, and they can't destroy anything that was destroyed already, it looks like a legitimately good game in its own right and might surprise some of you...

Also, read this article (click the images to enlarge), it'll make you feel better about the game:
image image image
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Would all this bullshit be solved if they just changed the Name to something completely different from XCOM... it's not like it is Verboten in gaming to change a name of something pre-release and post-announcement.

Change it to... I don't know... "G-men Verses the Space Goo", whatever.

I mean if:
-The name is different
-the details are different
-the developers aren't even the same

Just treat it like any of the other run of the mill shooters of which about 20 come out each year.

In fact, even if the name doesn't change, you should. It's just a name.

Mr. Mike:
Shamus, this is why we use Steam in Australia. We get games at your prices, and with the current exchange rate it's practically half-price for us!

Also, I'm tempted to take your cynical points to heart just so I can be pleasantly surprised by all this.

Although with Valve's ridonkulous price cuts, we're not really complaining. It's half off, yeah, but half of $4 is still only $2 less. XD

Also, Shamus, I noticed you didn't mention any of Nintendo's utter failures at E3...which is good, because they didn't have any (maybe Miyamoto failing at Zelda, but w/e). Having you confirm their exceptional performance through exemption has put a smile on my face.

You didn't rag on any of the games I seriously cared about. Thank you.

Are you kidding Shamus? Really? You seem to know at least something about this industry, and you're jumping on the "Motion Controls=Shovelware" bandwagon? Motion Controls don't equal shovelware, being the highest selling console does. The Wii is the highest-selling console, and it has tons of shit for it. Last generation, it was the PS2 that had piles of shit... And no motion controls! It was shovelware for the (utterly devoid of motion control, although they DID try to make a controller that worked via telepathy) Atari 2600 that caused the first Video Games crash!

Honestly, I expect this kind of crap from the leet kiddies that populate this site (and seem to have replaced the "I hate humanity" crowd...), but I thought you would have known better...

Before dissing games, you should do your homework!!!

I looked up The Old Republic on youtube and guess what the first thing I found was?
A(and get this next part) 20 MINUTE(hard to miss) video of gameplay filmed by the game's creators!!!

Please do your homework on games before dissing them to pieces.

Yours Sincerely,

The Guy Who Knows How to Look Things Up on Youtube.

X-Com is probably gonna blow, yes.
That's the one I'm hung up on, actually.

We've gone from jumpsuits to vests, from scary zombie aliens to generic shadows, awesome laser weaponry you need to pay people to invent to... shotguns and from turn-based to FPS.

Just call it "X-Nom-Your-Money" or something sarcastic like that and get it over with.

naruhodo:
Thanks for putting things in some much-needed perspective. Hysterical consumerism is a no-no. As neat as Kinect seems, that novelty definitely doesn't justify the price.

image

I'm starting to get a bit worried about the cost of the 3DS too. Notice how they've announced everything about it but the price?

P.S. That drag queen analogy is dumb and a bit offensive; it takes a REAL man to do drag!

Epic first post! Love that picture!

[quote="Starke" post="6.203021.6774241

My #1 concern is "Old Republic" dying due to "Alliance Syndrome" so to speak.[/quote]
Okay, please forgive my ignorance, but, what is "Alliance Syndrome?"[/quote]

Alliance Syndrome is a term for factional MMO imbalances, usually afflicting the good faction. It's come about in various game reviews and such over the years, for example when "Aion" was coming out, in the "Game Informer Review" they said under one of their pictures "let's hope the angelic faction doesn't suffer from Alliance Syndrome".

It comes from World Of Warcraft where especially early on The Horde had a great number of advantages, the designers liked that faction better and it REALLY showed. This involved simple things like racial abillities, and the Shaman class (compared to the alliance exclusive Paladin class), and other things like the positioning of towns and flight points, to the rate at which certain kinds of loot were aquired. A Horde character starting "fresh" will for example find quests that grant rings a lot earlier than alliance characters will, meaning that they will be able to fill up that equipment slot and have better gear granted stats earlier than Alliance characters will.

You also saw it in PVP battles where you had things like how a druid shapechanged into cat form could walk inside the graphic of a mounted tauren (due to the sheer size of the mount) and cap flags and such. Not to mention the fact that to begin with Undead had the abillity to remove fear (massive PVP abillity) along with Shamans having "earthbind totems" that were a massive advantage for things like flag running.

Right before BC came out Blizzard more or less admitted to the stat imbalances, and said they were going to correct them. However they mostly engaged in some slapdash fixes by allowing both factions to have access to the other one's former exclusive class. They also tinkered around with some of the racials, though The Horde still wound up a bit better off on that side of the spectrum. Not to mention the fact that all of the benefits accrued from the time period of imbalance were still there, nothing was stripped, nor was compensation given to the Alliance. As a result even when things evened out more you still had The Horde leading by quite a bit due to simply having more stuff accumulated.

Or in short "Alliance Syndrome" is when one of the factions is signifigantly, and noticibly gimped compared to the other factions when viewed from an impartial perspective. While many WoW players of course insist that there wasn't any balance issues, it's been common knowlege both among players (comments aside) and the gaming culture/industry for quite a while, and the subject of many jokes.

Warhammer Online is sort of an example because it was pretty obvious leading up to things which side the developers spent more time on, and despite the arguements about 'equivilents' which side wound up having the better abillities in most areas.

In Warcraft there have always been more Alliance players, in part because of the typical fantasy feel, but also because the Horde imbalance was not well known until the game had been out a bit. Still min/maxers (those who care nothing for RP or lore, and just want to dominate the game) have gone Horde, which also contributes to the domination because comparitively less of the real hardcore players go Alliance (far more casual) due to the numbers involved.

For the most part numbers don't matter that much in WoW because battlegrounds are set based on teams with the same number of characters on each side. World PVP didn't really get serious for a long time on the normal servers. Having more alliance players pretty much giving no signifigant advantage.

In Warhammer however the problem was especially irksome because it involved world PVP from the very beginning, and actually gave global benefits based on controlling regions. That meant that Destruction not only having better stats, but more players (due to those stats and people being more Savvy than when WoW came out) lead to problems as well.

If "Old Republic Online" plans to involved world PVP, they are going to need to carefully look at the interest and number turn outs. Ideally they need to balance the stats, however if there are far more bad guys than good, at least when it comes to PVP the good guys are going to need to be a lot beefier to prevent one sided steamrollings.

Things were so bad for so long, and the problems are so integral to the game, on a lot of servers you'll find Alliance can barely ever take and hold "Wintergrasp". Warcraft is broken on such a fundemental level that I honestly don't think it could be fixed... or at least not without chasing off a lot of players who would need to be heavily nerfed.

I'm a bit tired, so sorry if this rambling is unclear and contridictory.

The bottom line is that my major concern with "Old Republic" is that like other MMOs it seems like the bad guys have received far too much attention, and are being promoted too heavily... something we've seen before with other games.

It's not just the canon either, because technically during this time frame The Sith should be about to get so badly wtfpwned that a few thousand years later nobody will even know for sure what a bloody "Sith" was. The Republic not just pimp slapping this fleet despite the initial surprise attack, but also heading off to it's "empire" of Origin and decimating it. If you can't make the Jedi/Republic cool knowing what is supposed to be happening, I think there is a serious problem at work with the design team.

Despite how that might sound I'd like the two sides to be balanced for actual gameplay. The thing is that we aren't even seeing any real equality, either in concept, or in implementation so far.

As far as the Sith seeming cooler in the movies, consider that the movie timeline is the exact opposite story of the one being told in these games. The Star Wars universe works in cycles. Good was dominating, a period of balance is thus destinied to happen, followed by another empire of evil. As such "bringing balance" involves tearing the good guys down, so the good guys have the force being very cloudy, and the bad guys are much stronger because the universe is literally on their side. This is why Papaltine is able to take on multiple Jedi masters, and Darth Maul is able to take down a Jedi Master despite being an apprentice. It's not that Sith are inherantly more powerful, or better fighters, it's all about a prophecy.

This is also integral to the storyline of KoTR 2, and why Kreia wanted to kill The Force (even if the details were sketchy). Ending it, would end the cycle, and give everyone free will. She was neither Jedi OR Sith in her objectives, arguably she was probably one of the more heroic and philanthropic characters in the series if you really pay attention to her motives, even if her techniques were rather brutal.

See, my arguement is that we should not be seeing trailers with Jedi getting plastered, and multiple heroes having to combine forces to fight one Sith. For the purposes of the game it should be pretty well balanced. However if they wanted to be accurate to how things should be "canonwise" , going back to the original "Sith crash ship into Jedi HQ on Corsucant" trailer, despite being outnumbered each Jedi should have been taking down as many Sith as Papaltine did to the Jedi because that's what the universe has decreed is going to happen. We're talking 3-4 Sith going down for each Jedi "storywise". Bioware of all companies has demonstrated it SHOULD know better.

Generally speaking they are creating "Sith Mania" and in a factional game, that is going to create a massive imbalance. "Alliance Syndrome" again afflicting the good guys due to less time being spent on them, the designers liking the bad guys better, and more players gravitating towards the superior/more promoted side.

I want to see the two sides balanced in play, and honestly my big fear is that it's not happening just going by what I've seen.

Sorry about the length, congrats if you (or anyone) read this far. Sorry again if it's unclear or contridictory.

he can't say anything bad about 3DS because it will make all your dreams come true

nintendo has owned the handheld marker for like 100 years, no reason to think they won't hit this one out of the park also

I was super skeptical about the DS and honestly the first iteration didn't appeal to me, but the DS lite fixed everything. I might wait a year or 2 for version 1.1 of the 3DS but im definitely getting one.

Therumancer:
As such "bringing balance" involves tearing the good guys down, so the good guys have the force being very cloudy, and the bad guys are much stronger because the universe is literally on their side. This is why Papaltine is able to take on multiple Jedi masters, and Darth Maul is able to take down a Jedi Master despite being an apprentice. It's not that Sith are inherantly more powerful, or better fighters, it's all about a prophecy.

I don't know if I subscribe to that view. Darth Maul can be explained by Obi-Wan being a neophyte at the time and Qui-Gon being, charitably speaking, oblivious. Palpatine was an unknown quantity and took massive advantage of the institutional hubris of the Jedi.

Kinect is $150, but nobody seems to ever do the math on Move.

For one person to play a Move game (depending the game) You will need 1 Move controller, 1 Controller or a nunchuck, or 2 separate move controllers.

EyeToy bundle: $100
Extra Move controller: $50
"Nunchuck" addon: $30

So what it comes down to is you needing an EyeToy, 2 Move controllers, and a nunchuck in order to play all of the games that come out for it. It comes to $180 for ONE person. But, what if your siblings/friends want to play with you? I'll leave that math to you, just remember that you don't need they EyeToy bundle for everyone.

I'll take a $150 Kinect that works with (rumored at 4, but at least 2 is known) out of the box than being nickel and dimed on the Move.

Dexter111:
It's like all you people forgot X-COM Interceptor, X-COM Enforcer or all the UFO titles that followed them till up to 2007 like UFO Afterlight, UFO Aftermath, UFO Aftershock and UFO Extraterrestrials...

It's like you forgot that the newer UFO series has nothing to do with the franchise and would be as relevant to it as if I made a shitty bugged FPS and called it a new Halo game...

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