More on Halo: Reach

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In fact I don't feel like arguing but for whatever reason reading this gave me the inexplicable urge to see Christina Ricci naked.
It took me about 5 full minutes to trace back how the hell my mind wandered far enough to get to that point (longer than the google search to find her in the first place) but I just thought I'd share.
Fanboys bore me and responding to fanboys is an even greater waste of time, though I'm responding to the response with my own random ramblings so I guess I win (though to be fair I'm sick in bed so theres shit else for me to do).

Well there is a point for multiplayer, but I do have to posit that there are some games that are worth multiplayer alone, albeit not at normal retail price. One game that I played to death, Black Hawk Down for the PS2, had a relatively uneventful single player, but the multiplayer was one of the best that I'd ever seen in an FPS, because it was so delightfully simple and basic that there was nothing to it but fun, and it really lasted for years. Though if I go on again there probably will be less than three servers running so there's no point...

ZahrDalsk:
Yahtzee should have played with subtitles on. I know Jorge pronounces it "mom" but that's just his accent - he's saying "ma'am."

Anyhoo, I guess Reach can join Half-Life 2 at the Mediocrity Table, eh?

I noticed that too, but what was Jorge's comment on "been hers half my life" about then? That would certainly imply she was his mother, or at least the person who looked after him half his life.

Interesting though, you think the pronunciation was off, while I think the subtitles are wrong :p

Brotherofwill:

Co-op is one thing, but that's basically just single player with a ball and chain (and if you've never gotten that impression of co-op, it's because you're the ball and chain).

Can someone explain this to me? I don't get it.

None of the Halo difficulties are challenging enough that you need two people to succeed and the hardest settings tend to send you both back to the last checkpoint whenever either of you dies so it becomes a game of the superior player trying to complete the objectives before their partner wanders his uncoordinated ass right into the path of some sniper fire. The bottom line is that if you've never noticed your friend obliviously driving you both off a cliff then you're the "ball and chain" that's constantly getting in their way.

Sennz0r:

ZahrDalsk:
Yahtzee should have played with subtitles on. I know Jorge pronounces it "mom" but that's just his accent - he's saying "ma'am."

Anyhoo, I guess Reach can join Half-Life 2 at the Mediocrity Table, eh?

I noticed that too, but what was Jorge's comment about "been hers half my life" about then? That would certainly imply she was his mother, or at least the person who looked after him half his life.

Interesting though, you think the pronunciation was off, while I think the subtitles are wrong :p

Jorge was a Spartan 2 and they have all spent most of their lives with her.

BLASPHEMY!!! MY SHIRT IS AWESOME AND YOU KNOW IT!!!

and well, i agree with everything that was said from yahtzee

YAY YATZEE!!!!

Sennz0r:

ZahrDalsk:
Yahtzee should have played with subtitles on. I know Jorge pronounces it "mom" but that's just his accent - he's saying "ma'am."

Anyhoo, I guess Reach can join Half-Life 2 at the Mediocrity Table, eh?

I noticed that too, but what was Jorge's comment on "been hers half my life" about then? That would certainly imply she was his mother, or at least the person who looked after him half his life.

Interesting though, you think the pronunciation was off, while I think the subtitles are wrong :p

Spartan two's have been trained from the moment they turned eight, or somewhere around that age under the strict supervision and guidance of dr. Halsey and a team of experts.
The relation between the two's and Halsey is rather strange. On one hand, she's the closest thing any of them has to a mother figure. On the other hand, they are highly trained soldiers who, as has been mentioned before, trained to even give up their own life if necessary.

Sir John the Net Knight:
Yahtzee is just so tired and predictable. I'm sick of hearing him blather on about how multiplayer doesn't matter. It sure as hell seems to matter to a lot of other people.

I've grown so tone deaf to Yahtzee's profanity-laced ramblings that they start to sound something like...

Then why do you keep watching/reading and then commenting? Glutton for punishment, much?

Anyway, I thought that was an accurate and pretty funny portrayal of Reach. From other comments about the dramatic power of the game, and considering the potential for it (Thermopylae with you as Leonidas...), I was largely disappointed.

Fronzel:

kael013:
Yahtzee did you actually READ that "ancillary media", because it also explains away the floaty movement feel and the first half of the book makes the whole "mum" thing completely false. Next time make use of all the facts there, just taking the ones that support your argument shows narrow-mindedness.

No one should have to read a novel to understand the plot of a video game...or a movie or whatever. Singular works of fiction should stand on their own, otherwise it all just becomes a closed, fanboy-centric loop.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. I was pointing out the idiocy of using one fact from a source to back up your argument, when another fact a couple chapters later blows your argument out of the water.

As for your point, I agree with you. But how do you slip power armor specs into a "save the galaxy' story, especially when the pc starts the game in the power armor? The fact that he's in it already kind of says that he knows how it works.

sandeamon312:

Sennz0r:

ZahrDalsk:
Yahtzee should have played with subtitles on. I know Jorge pronounces it "mom" but that's just his accent - he's saying "ma'am."

Anyhoo, I guess Reach can join Half-Life 2 at the Mediocrity Table, eh?

I noticed that too, but what was Jorge's comment on "been hers half my life" about then? That would certainly imply she was his mother, or at least the person who looked after him half his life.

Interesting though, you think the pronunciation was off, while I think the subtitles are wrong :p

Jorge was a Spartan 2 and they have all spent most of their lives with her.

I take it you're supposed to find out about that in the novels or something else that's not covered in any of the games?

Though I never read any of the novels, I thought pretty much everything else in Halo:reach wasn't that difficult to follow, except for this now. It's disappointing because it causes unnecessary confusion.

Personally I can't take Yahtzee very seriously as a reviewer if he refuses to review more than half the game.

I mean, disregarding his lack of logic in refusing to accept that multiplayer is worthy of consideration when talking about a game, he also fails to acknowledge two pretty hefty elements of the game: Forge and Firefight. That's not even multiplayer but it's heaved into the "ignore" bin anyway.

I'll be labelled as a raving fanboy for this, but that's fine.

MasterOfHisOwnDomain:

Sir John the Net Knight:
Yahtzee is just so tired and predictable. I'm sick of hearing him blather on about how multiplayer doesn't matter. It sure as hell seems to matter to a lot of other people.

I've grown so tone deaf to Yahtzee's profanity-laced ramblings that they start to sound something like...

Then why do you keep watching/reading and then commenting? Glutton for punishment, much?

Why do you care how I spend my time? Lots of people pay attention to media figures who they don't like, such as Howard Stern, Rush Limbaugh, Don Imus or Glenn Beck. If you're going to argue against someone, you should be aware of where they stand.

I made that post to illustrate that Yahtzee isn't even succeeding at rousing me to debate his point of view anymore. But whether I choose to continue to listen to him is my choice and not yours.

New Rule: Yahtzee isn't allowed to talk unless he knows what he's talking about.

He's judging Halo Reach based on story. Despite openly admitting he has never played Halo or Halo 2. Yeah... Thats like me saying Dragon Age sucked because the story of Mass Effect was bad.

Lets fill Yahtzee in here. Spartans are basically enslaved Super Soldiers. They are captured young, and raised to accept orders and to be as effective as possible. THATS why they are so willing to throw their lives away: their job is to get the MISSION done. Period.

No matter the odds, no matter what needs to happen, YOU have a job to do, and no one else is gonna do it. If anything, the ending of Reach fit extremely well into the overall story; they gave their lives for hope. But I guess thats wrong when Halo does it (nevermind the fact that yahtzee dares not to mention that some games he gave praise to, like Mass Effect, do have those endings where the main character dies for no reason. BUT WHATEVER).

As for "games need to stand up on their singleplayer", no. Your wrong. Period.

While YOU dont see the appeal of Multiplayer, SOME people do. And a LARGE ammount of people bought the game JUST for multiplayer, cause they dont care about story. If you want to call yourself a reviewer, you have to acknowledge all aspects of the game, or atleast enough to get the grasp. The story mode =/= CTF, so get your ass on Multiplayer or stop reviewing games that have Multiplayer.

All Yahtzee is is a troll who rants about games, often without even thoroughly playing them, then makes VERY poor excuses for why he likes trolling the fan boys.

Do I like Halo? Yes. Do I care for Yahtzees opinions? Back when he used to be funny and original. But now-a-days, hes neither. Yahtzees opinions on the game will not change my own, what does piss me off is how Yahtzee tries to make these intellectual arguements and try to sound like a supreme critic when hes not that smart, or that good of a critic.

If your gonna judge a story, ATLEAST Wikipedia it.

On people's reception, it seems there are a few things I don't fully understand. People take what ZP says mostly as a black and white statements, and to stand for a game they favor, seems pointless to me. ZP is nothing more than a show, even if Yahtzee states what he thinks of a game, ZP exist only for entertainment, what need is there to defend a title we enjoyed? I enjoyed Mirror's Edge, and the review hits it hard, but I laughed at it, I enjoyed it, because it's how show is supposed to be.
But, I guess peoples likes to complain when they get things for free, even if it's entertainment.

He's right. This shirt does make me look fat.

Rooster Cogburn:
Not everybody likes single player games. I don't play single player at all, ever. Therefore, all games must be judged on their multiplayer experience alone.

I tend to agree with Yahtzee on his single player foundation belief. Mostly cause I hate mouthy 12 year olds. Also if im paying 60-70 dollars for it, I want something that will keep me occupied for months without needing to feed microsoft more pennies to be allowed to play online.

BUT. You have made an excellent and poignant counter. It allows for no argument. Well Done.

rollerfox88:
I'm not wearing a shirt...

Me either...

DTWolfwood:

I found myself shocked that the review was more on the middle ground than your usual one sided take on games. The main reason fanboys love this game so much is the details. Story is secondary if you get the details right ^-^

But that's about adaptations or remakes of material. Considering that this qualifies as the core story and was made by the same guys who have been making the series and established the rules of the franchise, that's just masturbation.

Sir John the Net Knight:
Yahtzee is just so tired and predictable. I'm sick of hearing him blather on about how multiplayer doesn't matter. It sure as hell seems to matter to a lot of other people.

No one is saying multiplayer doesn't matter, but that it shouldn't be a metric for reviews and standards. Saying a game can't be judged without it's multiplayer is similar to the people who say you can't critisize Avatar without the 3D. A cake needs to be a good cake without the frosting.

Uber Waddles:
New Rule: Yahtzee isn't allowed to talk unless he knows what he's talking about.

He's judging Halo Reach based on story. Despite openly admitting he has never played Halo or Halo 2. Yeah... Thats like me saying Dragon Age sucked because the story of Mass Effect was bad.

Not that I did not like Reach or anything, but a sequel's (or in this case, prequel's) story should be good enough to stand up on its own.

Also, unfair comparison much?

Uber Waddles:
While YOU dont see the appeal of Multiplayer, SOME people do. And a LARGE ammount of people bought the game JUST for multiplayer, cause they dont care about story. If you want to call yourself a reviewer, you have to acknowledge all aspects of the game, or atleast enough to get the grasp. The story mode =/= CTF, so get your ass on Multiplayer or stop reviewing games that have Multiplayer.

So, if he dubs it Halo Reach: Singleplayer Review, will you be happy? I acknowledge that the fact that a game has to stand up on its singleplayer is arbitrary silliness, but so is prohibiting anyone from reviewing a game with a comprehensive SP just because he didn't play the multiplayer function.

Uber Waddles:
Do I like Halo? Yes. Do I care for Yahtzees opinions? Back when he used to be funny and original. But now-a-days, hes neither. Yahtzees opinions on the game will not change my own, what does piss me off is how Yahtzee tries to make these intellectual arguements and try to sound like a supreme critic when hes not that smart, or that good of a critic.

If your gonna judge a story, ATLEAST Wikipedia it.

So, in other words, you've bashed a game I like and now you're made of ubersuck? If you don't care about his opinions, move on. Why the tirade? Why the ramblings? I don't care for his opinions because his taste in gaming is drastically different from mine but I'm thoroughly entertained by his videos and columns. That's why I don't comment on them.

Why should you, if you so obviously will find yourself angry and having to write a big damn tirade. He didn't insult you, now, did he?

Uber Waddles:

All Yahtzee is is a troll who rants about games, often without even thoroughly playing them, then makes VERY poor excuses for why he likes trolling the fan boys.

Never heard the "troll" argument before. Not at all.

but .. I hate multiplayer so yeah games have to stand on multiplayer alone
you cant judge a game based on gameplay the developers didnt create imagine if you did youd be judging Bungie by whiney 5 years olds with foul mouths.

I take offense to this article.

This shirt does NOT make me look fat! Besides that, good read, agree with most of the stuff in it.

Also, why does it matter that Yahtzee only reviews single player? When you see fans and other reviewers saying Halo is perfect because of the multiplayer, aren't they basically giving their opinion ONLY on multiplayer and ignoring the SP aspect of the game? Yahtzee does the exact same thing.

Personally, I play a good amount of local multiplayer with friends, but I don't really care for online multiplayer, and the only game I actually put a good amount of time into the online this last 2 years was Starcraft 2, so if I'm giving an opinion on a game with a bellow average SP experience, I'm gonna call it bellow average, it makes perfect sense.

Uber Waddles:
Spartans are basically enslaved Super Soldiers. They are captured young, and raised to accept orders and to be as effective as possible. THATS why they are so willing to throw their lives away: their job is to get the MISSION done. Period.

No matter the odds, no matter what needs to happen, YOU have a job to do, and no one else is gonna do it. If anything, the ending of Reach fit extremely well into the overall story; they gave their lives for hope.

I find it extremely disturbing that slavery is the hope of mankind. Disturbing the audience can be a great narrative tool, but I get the impression that the whole slavery angle is downplayed in favor of maudlin military sentimentality about sacrifice.

Ah, thank you; I've been waiting for someone to bring up the story. I could write an essay on why Reach's story failed, but you hit most of the major points: the third-person/first-person thing, the unrelatable characters, the arcane self-reference to the expanded universe and following games.

Here's the thing: whoever Bungie has designing this world is good at his job. I've gotten lost for hours on Halo Wikis reading about the fictional history of the Covenant, or the Spartan program. The backstory has some legitimately strong themes at play, like religion, class struggle, imperialism, militarism, and the value of sentience.
On the other hand, whoever Bungie has writing their games is fucking terrible. In lieu of writing how actual people talk, all they can do is write more and more pseudo-military jargon. To compensate, they slap every speaking role into power armor or some other military uniform (or, failing that, make them speak a language we don't understand.) ODST was supposed to be set in a human city, but it looked more like an ugly fortress, and you never saw so much as a civilian corpse. I think it says a lot that the civilians in Reach seem to use the same AI script as the dumbass ostriches that run screaming back and forth aimlessly across your line of fire.
And so, because Bungie doesn't know how else to get its hands on our elusive heartstrings, they just start systematically murdering Noble Team, in descending order from most to least sympathetic. By the last mission, it's just you and the two blandest of the bland. And after you see Cortana, all pretense of a futuristic military shooter flies out the window and we're back to Halo 3's "Dragonball Z with Guns" tone.

I did find the post-credits level to be the most poignant part of the entire franchise, however.

I don't care about Halo one bit and even I still have trouble getting "Yahtzee thought this game was great!" out of my head. Face it dude, you've lain your negativity about games on the table very, very, very, very strongly. And now you can see that you've done it TOO well. Just saying "It was passable and doesn't flat-out suck" is still a rare thing to hear from you, and it's just hard to not think of it as an extremely positive review.

Sneaklemming:
I dont care for halo, but I do care about multiplayer. Most fps games released these days use their singleplayer as a kind of tour of the environments, weapons and mechanics. Notable exceptions exist, but for the most part multiplayer games are the core of gaming today.

This is true, and it is arguably a very depressing and frustrating turn of events.

"why an AI is on a bit of glowy pipe rather than, say, a USB stick..."

...or an e-mail attachment! The AI is basically data, right? Why do they have to transport it instead of just transmit it? This weird notion of having to carry Cortana with you existed since the first Halo, but back in 2000, when all console games were still on disc, no one questioned it. Today, when you think about it, it doesn't make sense...

"I guess the only reason Master Chief was the last Spartan was because he was out sick while everyone else was at Kamikaze school." classic Yahtzee. That sentence made the whole article for me. :) (and I'm a die-hard Halo fan)

Moriarty70:
A cake needs to be a good cake without the frosting.

hmm i don't know about that! XD bad frosting can certainly ruin the cake :P
a bad multiplayer does not a bad game make on the other hand

MasterSteef:
"I guess the only reason Master Chief was the last Spartan was because he was out sick while everyone else was at Kamikaze school." classic Yahtzee. That sentence made the whole article for me. :) (and I'm a die-hard Halo fan)

I have to agree with you here. I'm a pretty big Halo fan and I thought the video was great. I believe back in Yatzee's Mailbag showdown video he pointed out that it doesn't really matter what he thinks of the game, if you enjoy it then you'll enjoy it, unless something really is bothering you. I like the video and I liked Reach, besides, Gay-lo Reach-around, instant classic.

How dare you; vertical stripes are supposed to be slimming, dammit.

Besides, it's not the shirt. You are just big-boned.

Uber Waddles:
He's judging Halo Reach based on story. Despite openly admitting he has never played Halo or Halo 2. Yeah... Thats like me saying Dragon Age sucked because the story of Mass Effect was bad.

No, it's nothing like that. The point is, a story set before any other Halo game shouldn't require knowledge of "future events" to make sense. In a game set during WWI, a passing reffernce to missing the shot at that messenger during a trench raid is a cute reference. Having someone say that he's going to kill millions because you didn't kill him is violating logic.

DTWolfwood:

Moriarty70:
A cake needs to be a good cake without the frosting.

hmm i don't know about that! XD bad frosting can certainly ruin the cake :P
a bad multiplayer does not a bad game make on the other hand

But that only increases the agrument that multiplayer is only a perk and not a standard for games to be judged by. To quote the great Colbert "I accept your surrender."

You shouldn't judge Reach solely on its single player just like you shouldn't judge Bioshock 2 solely on its multiplayer.

You know Yahtzee, you can complain and complain about how Halo hasn't changed much in 9 year's, but people will pay for what they want.

If they want a Iffy story set on a doomed planet with one of the greatest endings known to thinking man, with a fan base consisting primarily of 20-something-stay-with-they're-parents till-they-eventually-die men, or shouty 12 year old's (Halo: Reach), they can.

If they want a story so long and thick they could replace it with Cloud's buster sword and he wouldn't know the difference, it's characters mainly consisting of emo teenagers who constantly grind xp and item's so they can get their +5 pen knife of self cutting (Final Fantasy VII), they can.

If they wan't a Shit story, a dull as can be score mode that makes you collect stars (the second most over-used score system since F%$&!G points) and a multiplayer so full of the same "macho", and I use that term as loosely as the law allows, men, the same 12 year old children (only more fowl mouthed) and hackers that never get detected (Modern Warfare 2), then they can. But if they do I would hit them for filling Bobby "I don't know when to shut my mouth and stop ripping off my own costumers and company's" Kotick's pockets.

There, I have made my point. Now I just need to remember what it was in the first place.

Uber Waddles:
New Rule: Yahtzee isn't allowed to talk unless he knows what he's talking about.

He's judging Halo Reach based on story. Despite openly admitting he has never played Halo or Halo 2. Yeah... Thats like me saying Dragon Age sucked because the story of Mass Effect was bad.

Lets fill Yahtzee in here. Spartans are basically enslaved Super Soldiers. They are captured young, and raised to accept orders and to be as effective as possible. THATS why they are so willing to throw their lives away: their job is to get the MISSION done. Period.

I like how you complain he hasn't played Halo 1 or 2 and then go on to talk about shit that isn't mentioned in either one of those games. I've played every Halo game there is. But I've never read any books or any crap like that. This back story everyone keeps talking about is NOT IN THE GAMES. Captured young? Enslaved? As far as I know it's a genetically enhanced guy in a fancy suit of armour who volunteered for the job.

Oh That Dude:
Personally I can't take Yahtzee very seriously as a reviewer if he refuses to review more than half the game.

I mean, disregarding his lack of logic in refusing to accept that multiplayer is worthy of consideration when talking about a game, he also fails to acknowledge two pretty hefty elements of the game: Forge and Firefight. That's not even multiplayer but it's heaved into the "ignore" bin anyway.

And rightly so. Firefight is a massive waste of time. I played it single player, all I did was run around and try to stay alive. Got to the 4th wave, killed about 40+ guys and what did I get? 60 credits and nothing else? What's the point??? I'd rather kill 40 guys on the single player campaign where there's actually a reason for fighting.

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