More on Halo: Reach

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Sir John the Net Knight:
Yahtzee is just so tired and predictable. I'm sick of hearing him blather on about how multiplayer doesn't matter. It sure as hell seems to matter to a lot of other people.

I've grown so tone deaf to Yahtzee's profanity-laced ramblings that they start to sound something like...

I concur with this.

Also, it is ridiculously short, but you know what? I liked the increased number of Spartan characters, it made the game feel a bit more than just you (along with a couple of puny humans) kicking alien ass. And while it was probably not the best idea to know that you, your squad and the entire planet are ultimately buggered, it kind of added a sense of desperation during the final levels that i quite liked.

I CAN see where he's coming from with the multiplayer. It's pretty decent and keeps things fresh, but i can't see myself playing it permanently (considering the average amount of time it takes to fucking get ONE rank up).

I for one like Halo, I like the multiplayer (its the only thing I've got to play so far), but I don't disagree. Games shouldn't have to stand on their multiplayer, it does for me but I don't exactly own the game either it is my neighbor's. We play together and have a blast. So honestly I think Yahtzee has a point when Reach played it safe, they did assume some things but bungie from all of their bravado of the game really tailored it to those fans of Halo. They took all that feed back and hyped everyone for the game, they played it safe.

I had a feeling extra punctuation would be about this since I read the comments and saw the wrong impression some people got.

OhJohnNo:
So, wait, what? Does this mean Yahztee actually reads comments on his videos? Huh, you learn something new every day I guess.

You haven't noticed how many times he's been quoting comments from one of his videos in extra punctuation before?

Thanks Yahtzee. Even if it seems like you hate every game you've ever played, none deserve a smackdown more than the Halo franchise. Although I haven't played Reach at all, I think I know enough about it to know that I wouldn't like it. I've played dozens of FPS' in my life and Halo is no more extraordinary than any of them. I will say that I prefer Halo's more colorful and shiny aesthetic to CoD's, (even though it's entirely unrealistic/stupid how much spartans stand out against their background) but the satisfaction of a kill and the strategy involved in GoW or CoD greatly surpasses Halo's, and I can't fucking stand the way jumping up and down like a retarded hippo is a key aspect of gunfights.

At this point, I can't stand the genre any more. It's unbelievable to me that there's a new CoD coming out soon that's almost exactly the same thing as the prior, but people will go out and buy it anyway, and a lot of those people probably complained about how Galaxy 2 is too similar to Galaxy 1. (idiots) This genre is so incredibly undeserving of it's popularity and Halo is even more. I believe it's popularity is self-perpetuating. Everyone buys it cuz they know all their friends will.

I agree that a game must be able to stand as a single-player experience, but the best part of Halo is multiplayer, and in that aspect I agree with Yahtzee that running around a map with a bunch of random people (some of which are sure to be assholes) to find out who's best at a game that's mediocre is a waste of my gaming time. Local play can be fun with friends, but only if you LAN and make custom games that don't suck.

"Co-op is one thing, but that's basically just single player with a ball and chain" You've obviously never played a good co-op game, or else all your friends (or whoever you play with) suck. I have a feeling Portal 2 will be a meaningful co-op experience.

Sir John the Net Knight:
Yahtzee is just so tired and predictable. I'm sick of hearing him blather on about how multiplayer doesn't matter. It sure as hell seems to matter to a lot of other people.

Exactly....and then there are tonnes of people that don't care--like me--about the multiplayer. So he should take a poll before doing each game, and then cater that video specifically to the audience that love the game? Isn't that what fan-sites are for?

You're not making a whole bunch of sense there, buddy.

I think Yahtzee has some legit points and from what I see he sees Halo from a perspective different than many other reviews, I respect his opinion but I don't exactly agree with him on everything, yes the Halo series has thin plots but as games it's way better than many other FPS games out there in terms of design (even though I still think Half Half 2 is the best FPS ever made)

WaderiAAA:
I had a feeling extra punctuation would be about this since I read the comments and saw the wrong impression some people got.

OhJohnNo:
So, wait, what? Does this mean Yahztee actually reads comments on his videos? Huh, you learn something new every day I guess.

You haven't noticed how many times he's been quoting comments from one of his videos in extra punctuation before?

I only started reading XP last week, so no. I haven't.

Halo reach was run of the mill. It was well put together, gameplay that wasn't routine and had great graphics, but the storytelling and scripting was bad. The only exception to this was the final death of your character (which was epic). Though as yhatzee pointed out, many of the scenes could have been improved by keeping things in the first person. The entire reveal of the covenant on reach was underwhelming. Bungee had a great opportunity to do something different with these opening scene, but instead it was more of the same covenant drop ships bombing your location. Also, at times I felt confused as to why I was doing what we were doing.

The first halo made it very clear what the objective of each mission was. 1 defend battleship from covenant boarding crew, 2 land on halo and rescue landing pods you saw flying in, 3 keyes has been captured rescue captain, 4 find the map room, 5 find the control room, 5 super weapon (flood) so on and so fourth. And that was from memory a game I played years ago.

If I try to do the same for Halo Reach things aren't as clear
1. defeat covenant patrol, turn on disabled radio. Warn hq of covenant.
2. recapture sword base (how did we lose that anyway?) Destroy cruiser
3. Sniper mission, general recon? I actually can't remember

Just didn't have the same feel to it. I'll probably replay Halo reach a few more times, just to confirm these opinions

Akalabeth:

Oh That Dude:
Personally I can't take Yahtzee very seriously as a reviewer if he refuses to review more than half the game.

I mean, disregarding his lack of logic in refusing to accept that multiplayer is worthy of consideration when talking about a game, he also fails to acknowledge two pretty hefty elements of the game: Forge and Firefight. That's not even multiplayer but it's heaved into the "ignore" bin anyway.

And rightly so. Firefight is a massive waste of time. I played it single player, all I did was run around and try to stay alive. Got to the 4th wave, killed about 40+ guys and what did I get? 60 credits and nothing else? What's the point??? I'd rather kill 40 guys on the single player campaign where there's actually a reason for fighting.

All completely subjective opinion, and nowhere a reason he shouldn't have paid it some attention and delivered a judgement, regardless of what that would be.

My Shirt Does Not Make Me Look Fat! *angry scorn*

Waitaminit... they say they weigh 1 ton!? Bungie needs a lesson in physics; weight = heavy.

Finally; I fully and completely agree that a game that cannot stand up on single-player alone is insufficient/ thus inferior to a good single player experience.
I like to view videogames like a good book; Do I *have* to tell someone else about my book to like it? No. Do I need validation as to my book's qualities or do I believe my own tastes are deserving of their own merit and thus require no second-guessing? No I don't and yes they are.

sunburst313:

Brotherofwill:

Co-op is one thing, but that's basically just single player with a ball and chain (and if you've never gotten that impression of co-op, it's because you're the ball and chain).

Can someone explain this to me? I don't get it.

None of the Halo difficulties are challenging enough that you need two people to succeed and the hardest settings tend to send you both back to the last checkpoint whenever either of you dies so it becomes a game of the superior player trying to complete the objectives before their partner wanders his uncoordinated ass right into the path of some sniper fire. The bottom line is that if you've never noticed your friend obliviously driving you both off a cliff then you're the "ball and chain" that's constantly getting in their way.

ah but in Reach the difficulty is scaled up if there are more players, the AI even acts differently

JourneyThroughHell:

Uber Waddles:
While YOU dont see the appeal of Multiplayer, SOME people do. And a LARGE ammount of people bought the game JUST for multiplayer, cause they dont care about story. If you want to call yourself a reviewer, you have to acknowledge all aspects of the game, or atleast enough to get the grasp. The story mode =/= CTF, so get your ass on Multiplayer or stop reviewing games that have Multiplayer.

So, if he dubs it Halo Reach: Singleplayer Review, will you be happy?

more so, yes

Fronzel:

Uber Waddles:
Spartans are basically enslaved Super Soldiers. They are captured young, and raised to accept orders and to be as effective as possible. THATS why they are so willing to throw their lives away: their job is to get the MISSION done. Period.

No matter the odds, no matter what needs to happen, YOU have a job to do, and no one else is gonna do it. If anything, the ending of Reach fit extremely well into the overall story; they gave their lives for hope.

I find it extremely disturbing that slavery is the hope of mankind. Disturbing the audience can be a great narrative tool, but I get the impression that the whole slavery angle is downplayed in favor of maudlin military sentimentality about sacrifice.

Slave is the wrong word, the Spartan IIs were kidnapped and convinced they had to do it for the good of humanity and they believed in what they were doing, even when that was killing human insurrectionists, and it's not like they're mindless killing machines, it was noted in stuff put out before the games that Jorge understood the insurrectionists' plight and had sympathy for them but not for their actions of murder, theft, and sedition, and he's shown in the game to have a heart, even if the others aren't so much. The Spartan IIIs were a bit older when they were grabbed and they were (as far as anyone can tell) all orphans from places destroyed by the Covenant, and were given lesser hardware but slightly better training and odds of surviving the process whole because of experience with Spartan IIs, though more of them were, well, produced, and they were sent on more dangerous missions and has less likelihood of coming back than Spartan IIs. I've completely gone into a ramble, sorry.

Super Jamz:
I CAN see where he's coming from with the multiplayer. It's pretty decent and keeps things fresh, but i can't see myself playing it permanently (considering the average amount of time it takes to fucking get ONE rank up).

If you're playing for rank you're doing it wrong, games are supposed to be for fun, if I had fun looking at numbers and little symbols I'd go do algebra or sudoku or play an RPG.

Anyway, Yahtzee should really play some Firefight (and try tweaking the options), it's a nice and relatively sizable portion of the game's pie.

I think reviews should have a system where they rate the campaign and multilayer separately and they give one rate with the combined ratings of both modes

Palademon:
Yes, it is rather boring. There are new weapons and vehicles. (Or should I say old). I much prefered ODST's characterisation. I only starting liking Noble team (a little) after about half of them were dead.

I felt the same way, the ODST cast seemed to at least have clearly different personalities, whereas Noble team had... different colored armor. Oh, and terribly shitty fake accents.

Not surprisingly, many of the deaths felt completely contrived, not least of which was

your right!! i do need a new shirt!

I'm a bit irked by Yahtzee sayin MGS3 was the best in the series. I think 3 was when the series started to get too much for people.

I'd like to ask you people, do you think a boss that kills people with killer bees *okay*? What about the layers upon layers of Xanatos gambits that are tenuously toying with the very threads of probability and causality?

HA!

Got you there, Yahtzee!

I'm not wearing a shirt, and I still look fat!

Fronzel:
Though I think the idea of humanity's only hope being people who were brutalized into becoming little more than killing machines would make a better story than Lt. Bravey McValient nobly sacrificing etc etc. Even Marathon did a better job at that idea, and pretty much all it had for story were text screens.

So they should have lifted the plot from John Scalzi's Old Man's War quadrilogy instead? (Those aren't slave soldiers per se, but are definitely kept in the dark about the big picture.) Or maybe Warhammer 40K...

A very difficult article to respond too. Each point balanced by another.

If I dispute your interpretation of the story with facts from other sources, I prove your point about ancillary media.

If I dispute your opinion on the weapons, vehicles, etc., I get to sound like an angry fanboy.

If I dispute your views on multiplayer, I'd just be a hypocrit.

Why do you have to make this so hard?!

Well, at least there are a couple things I can safely complain about.

Firefight was never mentioned. You said you reviewed "single player," not "campaign." So I was a bit surprised by this ommision since, unlike dedicated multiplayer options, this can be done solo.

As for the "spartan weighs a ton" thing, it seems reasonable to assume that they are not wearing a medieval plate. It's called "powered armor" for a reason.

...yeah, that's all I got.

wow...that was...uncalled for

I guess I don't usually bother reading comments past the first page, so I dunno if there are more fanboys or haters

both are equally annoying

but this was a low blow from Yahtzee, even I'll admit

Since I'm technically malnourished that's quite an achievement. I should wear this shirt more often.

Halo is mediocre story/singleplayer that got scrapped by dev for the multiplayer platform. Seems to me that they should have just forgone the whole storyline thing and stuck with what people obviously play Halo for. At least thats what I feel from Reach. The storyline was half-assed, the plot weak and the characters boring. Why bother making a singleplayer at all? In the end, I still don't play Halo MP because I'm tired of the same game with "new" elements added in, and multiplayer hasn't changed all that much since the Quake days other than weaponry. Its still in the end a fragfest, pure and simple.
I say this because almost every mp game I join, whether be it CoD or Halo, it always devolves into kill the other team/players more. Even CTF or "bombing runs" still ends up with the objective being ignored while players run around killing each other. Once in a while I get on games that actually have people interested in doing things other than deathmatch... but logically speaking for all my experiences the face of MP FPS's has always been the same.
Either way, its easy to pan any FPS multiplayer because they're all pretty much the same game with different packaging. Is it any wonder some people might be bored of it or don't think it is anything special?
Anyway, I've always figured you have to review the game from both sides of the field, and if the multi-player is just as bland as the last game, and the story isn't that great and the characters are passionless faceless automatons you can't really connect with in any way, then no matter how pretty a sheen you put on the graphics and physics, the game itself can never be "great". It all ends up with the die-hard fanboys who can't admit the game they love so much isn't the greatest thing in the world screaming at everyone who disagrees with them.
I do find it fitting they ended Halo with Reach though, it kills the series just as much as it kills the characters in the game.

I agree with his points about the story. Especially because nobody seemed to be all that bothered about the covenant invading the planet. I know humans had experience with the covenant before (the fall of Harvest if you will) because I read the books, but even then it didn't make much sense why they allready seemed to know how every bit of covenant technology functionned. It must have been even more bewildering for newcomers to the series! Still, all things considered I like the game. The gameplay might not have changed much over the years, it still WORKS. In fact it works better than most other games out there. And multiplayer-wise I think Bungie outdid themselves again...even though we could use some new multiplayer-environments ;-)

quick, everyone agree with yahtzee.

*baaaaaaah*

I love this shirt, FUCK YOU!

OT: Liked halo myself but im glad its over, end of story.

i mean i payed damn near 50 quid for this shirt.. jesus..

This shirt does not make me look fat! It's my consistently poor diet and lack of exercise that makes me look fat!

Boy, "Like" and "Hate" seem to be such heavy words these days.

OT: I'll offer my super-special bonus to the whole Imposter-Professor Layton reply comment or whatever. I've always thought Multiplayer games and modes were kept sometime solely- interesting in the same way Sports are, where it's not necessarily the game's rules to play, but how the uncountable number of different strategies and moves can be used to best your opponent while still following them. While the vareity in that constrained enviroment can get old after a while, It's how I managed to play excessive amounts of "Catch" for the past years. I guess you can play by yourself in that game, though i'd still file it under Multiplayer dependent.

...Though I guess it doesn't matter, as both options are usually always present.

Otherwise, the article was a seemingly-nice followup on a game I haven't followed since the beginning of the third one. Wish I had some spending money to decide on my own... ^^

kael013:
Yahtzee did you actually READ that "ancillary media", because it also explains away the floaty movement feel and the first half of the book makes the whole "mum" thing completely false. Next time make use of all the facts there, just taking the ones that support your argument shows narrow-mindedness.
As for the article, I agree with you about Reach's campaign. However, the gameplay has evolved over the years, it's just that for Reach they went back to halo 1's formula with some refinements from the other games. And what is it with you and saying that every game needs a boss fight? And did you even look at Firefight? Or Forge?
Honestly though, you didn't need to write an article about this. Everyone knows how you feel about Halo (you made it abundantly clear in the Turok review) so we all know you're just trying to get traffic figures and to make us to act like little gibbering morons in the forums.

Almost right. He's super troll so selective-mindedness works better.

Besides, this site is muti-user so it doesn't count. I much prefer sites that let you separate yourself from the world and keep your opinions to yourself. Why am I sharing my opinion of this site then? Because I am using all of you. OMG! I just turned into Nazi, Yahtzee's web-page reviewing twin who's name ironically rhymes with his!

Oh That Dude:

Akalabeth:

Oh That Dude:
Personally I can't take Yahtzee very seriously as a reviewer if he refuses to review more than half the game.

I mean, disregarding his lack of logic in refusing to accept that multiplayer is worthy of consideration when talking about a game, he also fails to acknowledge two pretty hefty elements of the game: Forge and Firefight. That's not even multiplayer but it's heaved into the "ignore" bin anyway.

And rightly so. Firefight is a massive waste of time. I played it single player, all I did was run around and try to stay alive. Got to the 4th wave, killed about 40+ guys and what did I get? 60 credits and nothing else? What's the point??? I'd rather kill 40 guys on the single player campaign where there's actually a reason for fighting.

All completely subjective opinion, and nowhere a reason he shouldn't have paid it some attention and delivered a judgement, regardless of what that would be.

What's not subjective is that Firefight is under the multiplayer menu and is popularly touted as a multiplayer game mode.

Yahtzee makes it sound as bad as Twilight.
Another case of developers making bad sequels. "cough cough bioshock cough"

Halo Combat Evolved was great in terms of story but as for the franchise, I started having doubts for future titles after a little ways into Halo 2. Stopped caring all together after Halo 3.
I thought 2 was like a stepping stone to a more interesting immersive story with fun creative changes in combat.
Keyword:"thought"

lol. I love how he used the word Mediocre because i saw someone post a comment about a game being mediocre and someone ripped on him saying if Yatzhee didn't say it then none of us would know it lol.

Good Read. Still haven't tried the Game because none of my friends have bought it so i can't say one way or the other if he's right but it was entertaining none the less.

Akalabeth:

Oh That Dude:

Akalabeth:

Oh That Dude:
Personally I can't take Yahtzee very seriously as a reviewer if he refuses to review more than half the game.

I mean, disregarding his lack of logic in refusing to accept that multiplayer is worthy of consideration when talking about a game, he also fails to acknowledge two pretty hefty elements of the game: Forge and Firefight. That's not even multiplayer but it's heaved into the "ignore" bin anyway.

And rightly so. Firefight is a massive waste of time. I played it single player, all I did was run around and try to stay alive. Got to the 4th wave, killed about 40+ guys and what did I get? 60 credits and nothing else? What's the point??? I'd rather kill 40 guys on the single player campaign where there's actually a reason for fighting.

All completely subjective opinion, and nowhere a reason he shouldn't have paid it some attention and delivered a judgement, regardless of what that would be.

What's not subjective is that Firefight is under the multiplayer menu and is popularly touted as a multiplayer game mode.

You're right, it's not subjective, it's just plain wrong. There is no multiplayer menu. There is a main menu, with Campaign, Matchmaking, Firefight, Custom games, Forge, and Theatre.
You can play Firefight in multiplayer, correct. In the same way as you can play the Campaign in multiplayer.

I was going to make a comment about my shirt, but it seems several people have done that already, so it's not clever anymore.

Uber Waddles:
While YOU dont see the appeal of Multiplayer, SOME people do. And a LARGE ammount of people bought the game JUST for multiplayer, cause they dont care about story. If you want to call yourself a reviewer, you have to acknowledge all aspects of the game, or atleast enough to get the grasp. The story mode =/= CTF, so get your ass on Multiplayer or stop reviewing games that have Multiplayer.

He can't help but review games with multi player because multiplayer games are ubiquitous.

The problem with buying the game JUST for multiplayer seems ridiculous, especially if it's a full priced game. You're willing to pay 60 bucks for multi player alone? You might be ok with it, but some people, me included, think it's absolutely asinine to spend 60 dollars on a game with mediocre single player that only lasts 5 hours because the developers decided to cop out and make it mostly multi player. This is why Valve is so awesome, their games are either strictly single player or strictly multiplayer online and you never pay 60 bucks for them. I paid 30 dollars for the orange box and got Half Life 2, Ep1, ep2, TF2 and CS:S only costs 20 bucks. I'm definitely getting my moneys worth with them.

My point is that Valve doesn't split their attention when making a game, they focus on single player or online. Even EA is doing a better job with some of their online games, Battlefield Bad Company 2 AND Medal of Honor had 2 different studios working on it, one does the single player and the other does the multiplayer.

OT: My t shirt is awesome, it tells people that I'm an "Attorney at LOL"

Oh That Dude:

You're right, it's not subjective, it's just plain wrong. There is no multiplayer menu. There is a main menu, with Campaign, Matchmaking, Firefight, Custom games, Forge, and Theatre.
You can play Firefight in multiplayer, correct. In the same way as you can play the Campaign in multiplayer.

Whatever, I'm getting it confused with FrontMissionEvolved. Either way, Firefight's a multiplayer mode. Yahtzee says he only reviews the single player, does he have to spell it out for people and say "I only play the Campaign mode in single player?"

Seriously who plays Firefight single player anyway? Have you? Whenever people talk about it online they talk about playing it with a group of buddies. So far as I know I'm the only person who's tried it single player. And that's partly because my buddies were so bored with Reach they took it back after a week.

Even Bungie touts Firefight as a co-op game mode:
"Built on top of Halo 3: ODST's campaign, Firefight is a cooperative game mode that lets you and up to three of your friends put your skills to the ultimate test" ( http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?cid=20144 ). Straight from the horse's mouth.

Quit grasping at straws.

I ignore what little the Halo Series is trying to say but the whole Jorge and that Doctor thing is annoyingly stupid, I would have though Yahtzee would get it since he is, after all, a british person.
I can't believe the number of people who think Jorge's mother is the doctor. Ignoring the fact that spartans are cut off from all family and indoctrinated into the military (explaining their suicide bomber esque fanaticism). Jorge isn't saying "mum" he is saying "mam" as in a mother figure or a respected older woman. Has no one here seen a single episode of "The Bill"?
Granted that she is a mother figure and a key part in raising Jorge into the Spartan he is, but she isn't his biological mother and the number of people I have to explain that too is getting annoying.
And I don't even care about the Halo Universe.

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