Jimquisition: Fight in the Name of Childishness

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There needs to be a searchlight that goes up or something so we know when to act.

OT: Fox is a joke, people that take stock in Fox's spin are not doing balanced research. I have older friends that watch Fox, and the majority of them are aware of the spin. Especially when I point it out for them.

I love that ending, if only because I wish I could say similar things to people who feel the need to come in here and whine every week when they should just not watch in the first place.

vxicepickxv:

chstens:
Holy shit, he's right. At least in the US, people acting like children to defend their points over here gets laughed at in the media.

Did you actually see that debate? It wasn't so much a debate as it was a man who was right being shouted at for the whole thing.

Yeah, that was pretty much it. The only remotely good thing he got out of it was getting Cooper Lawrence to admit she'd never played the game, but it only confirmed what most of us already suspected and to the people who watch Fox News and agree, they don't care if she played or not anyway.

Jim has once again proven how much of a fucking idiot he is. You know what would work a hell of a lot better then acting like a spoiled five year old child like Jim suggests? Ignoring the fuckers. The only reason that the anti gaming lobbies get so much press is because of gamers complaining about them and even then they dont do anything.

Lets look at the mass effect incident. Despite everything that happened around it and the fox news segment there was absolutely no effect on the games sales at all. All of those user reviews on her book would also not do anything at all to convince anybody not to buy the book if they took two seconds to read them. Tell me would you not buy a game because a reviewer said the company likes to suck donkey balls. No you would ignore that persons opinion because they are an idiot and have nothing valid to say.

I really dont see how people give a shit what somebody on fox news thinks of them. What happens on those stations have absolutely no effect at all on gaming as a whole. MW2 got a massive amount of air time because of the airport level and then went on to be the best selling game of all time. Duke Nukem got a ton of bad press and even then still went on to sell fairly decently. The game didnt fail because of the bad press it failed because so many gamers disliked it.

One last thing I should mention was the supreme court case. If Jim thinks that the approach the big game companies are taking against anti-gaming lobbies is not working then why did the supreme court side in our favour. The reason is because the supreme court did not listen to the loudest voice, they instead listen to the logical one. Which once again proves that being the loudest douchbag you can is not effective.

TLDR: People need to learn that the anti-gaming crowd is not actually having any effect on the industry at all. The only reason they are getting so much attention is because we are giving it to them. All you have to do is simply ignore the fuckers and they will loose what little power the had.

It's a grim statement that this is the most insightful video he's posted yet. But this is also old news to me, as I've been of the belief that stupidity wins over intellectualism when shows like Jersery Shore have higher ratings than Breaking Bad. It doesn't just work for games, it works for everything.

SgtFoley:
Jim has once again proven how much of a fucking idiot he is. You know what would work a hell of a lot better then acting like a spoiled five year old child like Jim suggests? Ignoring the fuckers. The only reason that the anti gaming lobbies get so much press is because of gamers complaining about them and even then they dont do anything.

Lets look at the mass effect incident. Despite everything that happened around it and the fox news segment there was absolutely no effect on the games sales at all. All of those user reviews on her book would also not do anything at all to convince anybody not to buy the book if they took two seconds to read them. Tell me would you not buy a game because a reviewer said the company likes to suck donkey balls. No you would ignore that persons opinion because they are an idiot and have nothing valid to say.

Hi. Would you like your dunce cap now, or later? The anti-gaming lobby gets attention for the EXACT reasons he espoused. It gets attention from the right wing radicals and religious fanatics because it's aimed directly at them. And much like with the Fox News bit on Mass Effect, it looked like THEY WON to that audience, despite all of Keighley's defense. Perception has an amazing impact on swaying people. Even if they were outright shown they were wrong, as long as they hold their heads high, the viewer will percieve they still won the arguement.

As for using sales figures of the game, really? Are you actually going to not realize your own logical fallacy there? It was never intended to stop sales, it was intended to make games look bad. Which it succeeded at, at the time. The VERY SAME SHIT is going on right now with the Oslo massacre. Some psycho, who was already a psychopath I might at, tried pointing the blame on games and it worked. Because the people that want to hate on games take any ammo they get. Now, for the time being, games are being pulled from shelves in Europe, and other countries are starting to reevaluate their laws. Don't believe me? Look at the bottom of this page, as of this writing, this thread is the most commented on the site: Oslo Murders Lead to Calls For Game Bans in Australia

The idoits that are trying to rally against games are simply trying to styme their sales, they're trying to get them banned or impose defacto censorship. A trick that has worked in the past, look at the Hot Coffee scandal. Or the ESRB violence crackdown from a few years ago on Fallout 3 and Dark Sector. (Not even sure what set that one off, as they've peeled that back)

Before I go much further, lemme just bring up a simple point on the original basis of your argument: Ignore them. How has that worked in your life? Or in history? I don't know about your life, but I know ignoring things in history has not worked too well.

Don't know about "childish" as such, but I HAVE repeatedly been frustrated at the way that, every time some new retarded controversy comes up over a harmless triviality in a game, the developers never have the balls to stand up and say "you're being fucking stupid, you don't have a leg to stand on, we don't care what morons like you think and if you don't like it you can shove it up your ass." And no I'm not paraphrasing there, I really think their official response should include the swearing.

Come to think of it, I've often wished they'd take the same approach to whiny, eternally-unsatisfied fans.

Also I hope this goes without saying but if they're willing to be civil and honest you should be as well.

When talking to Fox news specifically, I totally agree, they like shouting matches. Other places? I'm not entirely sure. America likes a good shouting match, but we also enjoy a decent debate with some cordiality.

Off topic, I do like that Jim addressed the escapist directly about their snooty-ness, because a lot of people here act like this is the forum for the Tony awards.

Sometimes we have to step down to a childish level, but only in a childish setting, it's all about adapting. If gamers went on the Daily Show, things would be much different. Civilized conversations only happen in civilized places, it's that simple.

Ryu890:
Hmm...if we need our own Jack Thompson.....

We do not need our own Jack Thompson.

Jack Thompson self destructed in a big spectacle and the Florida Legal System basically called him a no good liar when they stripped him of his law license.

He is now utterly irrelevant.

If you're dealing with Fox? Yeah, be as immature as you like, the average intelligence of their newscasters is so low you could spend the entire conversation literally talking with your arse on the screen and they probably wouldn't cotton on.

Otherwise? No. Some groups are smart enough to turn it around and they're loyal fans blind enough to follow suite. If you start to descend to their level then they may well call you out for being childish, immature, bullying and so on while they do it themselves, point out the hypocrisy and meet the age old "Who...me?!" face.

So what I'm saying is pick your angle with care, different fights require different tactics, some can be won with brute force, some require finesse and some need to be completely ignored and left to rot though they're very few despite this being the game industry's favourite approach.

Remember, not every group is as flat out idiotic as Fox News' little teams.

Arcane Azmadi:
Don't know about "childish" as such, but I HAVE repeatedly been frustrated at the way that, every time some new retarded controversy comes up over a harmless triviality in a game, the developers never have the balls to stand up and say "you're being fucking stupid, you don't have a leg to stand on, we don't care what morons like you think and if you don't like it you can shove it up your ass." And no I'm not paraphrasing there, I really think their official response should include the swearing.

Come to think of it, I've often wished they'd take the same approach to whiny, eternally-unsatisfied fans.

Swearing at fans and saying that they don't care what they think can do nothing but backfire.

But I would love if Rockstar came out and said

"Listen here you two bit hacks, we make games for adults and sometimes these games will include violence, sex and/or swearing. If you don't like it you're welcome to not play them. But if you're going to stand here complaining about how our violent games are bringing some new low in entertainment while not saying anything about Tarantino or others; we invite you to go fuck yourself with a rusty pair of pliers. We'll even put an animation of that happening in the next Manhunt if you need assistance.

P.S. The next asshole who claims that there is rape in GTA will be hearing from our lawyers."

I personally think ignorance is the best solution. Go industry!

I personally think ignorance is the best solution. Go industry!

Jennacide:
It's a grim statement that this is the most insightful video he's posted yet. But this is also old news to me, as I've been of the belief that stupidity wins over intellectualism when shows like Jersery Shore have higher ratings than Breaking Bad. It doesn't just work for games, it works for everything.

I watched Toddlers and Tiaras for the first time last night, not because I like kiddie beauty pageants but because watching the show had all the appeal of a gruesome train wreck. I couldn't look away. Same with some other trashy shows. So yeah even if you think they are all losers or whatever the shows still have some appeal.

I'm not sure the point we should draw from this is that childish works. Maybe "not being a doormat" would work, too.

It's possible to be assertive without being a prat.

The problem is, our "side" of the Sexbox "debate" was neither.

Games have gotten too serious nowadays ...(Ironically, Serious Sam is really funny and immature) What ever happen to the silliness in games? Why does everything need to be dark and gritty and mature ...

What the hell? No, No I will not act like a child just to make a point, why would i undermine and industry I care a lot about just to win a debate against people whose opinions won't change due to their preconceived notions about it. This is the inherent problem with all debates each side is more concerned with winning than causing any real change *cough* debt ceiling *cough*
Instead of arguing back and forth the games industry should try to open a dialogue with their opponents with hopes of mutual acceptance as the final outcome.

I neither agree nor do I really disagree. I'll give you that Jim, lately your show has been pretty good and I do believe you speak quite some truth. But I don't see this Issue really going away in our generation, pretty much regardless of what we do. I figure it's kind of like bashing on Gays, it's just a silly older Generation that isn't accustomed to anything else, which makes it evil. Hell, it beats me why a Sex Scene in a Game would be any more obscene then in a Movie, but that's apparently how it is. I'm happy in my knowledge that the people saying such things are normally ignorant fools and the experts don't tend to be very appreciated in their ''expert'' field. I imagine it will disappear all on it's own by the time I have a teenage kid that plays Game, once my Generation is pretty much in control.

So, in other words, aslong as these people aren't litterally prohibiting me from playing the Games I want to play, I won't do much of anything, other then the occasional facepalm.

Besides, Gamers are far too busy bickering amoungst each other as to actually unite for a common cause.

Edits: On a related note, how does that saying go again? Never stoop down to an Idiots level, they'll beat you with their experience.

There is a strange logic behind acting like children to disprove the people who accuse video gamers of acting like children. Then again, it's hard to argue with results.

I personally agree with the part where he says I shouldn't care what other people think of gamers. So long as games I like keep getting made, Jack Thompson can call for a boycott of them all he wants, so long as I still get to buy and play it.

Simeon Ivanov:
Games have gotten too serious nowadays ...(Ironically, Serious Sam is really funny and immature) What ever happen to the silliness in games? Why does everything need to be dark and gritty and mature ...

A-bucking-men to that, brother/sister.

{EXTRA TEXT TO AVOID MOD WRATH}

~Tom<3

Thomas Jefferson:
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.

I love this quote. Its so applicable in so many ways ^_^

Would it be so hard to be the adult, but demand that the children shut up and listen to you?

I dont know why everyone hates Jim, hes hilarious!

I believe we should be mature in the public eye, but the moment someone bashes us, we need to do all in our power to make sure they regret it. Perfect combo! Everyone loves us, and people will be scared of saying something completely false, untrue, and stupid

Dok Zombie:
The exact same thing happened on Alan Titchmarsh's daytime chat show. The game's industry bod (who's name I forget) was essentially shouted down and booed by an audience and panel of "experts" who had already made up their mind before the debate started. The guy remained calm and reserved throughout the whole thing, but failed to get his point across even remotely.

But then again, who give's two fuck's what what a TV gardener thinks about Grand Theft Warfare: Modern Killzone 3 anyway?

I'd have loved for him to have pointed out the 18 certificate on the 'aimed at kids' videogame at the very least.

good points and i enjoyed this episode actually.
how many times i had to stand for my self as a gamer, that the rest is wrong who think bad about them, like these so called experts. my mother believed every shit she heard on TV about games (not fox. we dont live the USA) until i proofed her wrong by showing her the games she heard about on TV and that i dint turn out to be like them as the these idiots experts claim.
in germany, they always say that violent games make children take a gun and shoot other people. living in switzerland at that time, many people still believed it but switzerland as such doesnt have this silly policy as germany, that violent games should be banned or not be allowed to be sold.

i still remember that one expert in a talk show on german TV, talked about battlefield how bad this game is for the community. and guess what, he showed scenes from "world of warcraft". genius. i was laughing all way through because he was just talking one crap after another.

Hahahha... hell yahh some of us know you are right dude.

Thing is, whenever I discuss video games with those who don't partake, hardly any of them believe the hype from fox news or wherever. It's just gotten silly.

Entertainment is what people want from their news shows, not relevant factual information. Pop-psychologist screaming about misinterpreted research is entertainment. So is Amazon-bombing. Rock on.

I still think you should green-screen it and stand if front of the stills as you rant.

Father Time:

Ryu890:
Hmm...if we need our own Jack Thompson.....

We do not need our own Jack Thompson.

Jack Thompson self destructed in a big spectacle and the Florida Legal System basically called him a no good liar when they stripped him of his law license.

He is now utterly irrelevant.

Yeah, you got a point. Good riddance to him.

Top Hat:
A very interesting & valid point, but it saddens me to think that immaturity is the only way to get results.

Not the only way and I don't think Jim is trying to push that. More that the school-yard soapbox is a means to balance the childishness of those who wage a culture war on a purely ideological foundation.

Maturity has its time and place, and so does immaturity. Let's face it, a lot of the big media outlets are nothing more than infotainment; one must adjust discourse accordingly in order to maximize impact.

Insightful point as always, Jim. *Farts* :)

Wait, hasn't science already proven that watching fox news makes you stupid? How is that relevant information nowadays?

Oh wait, because people still watch it.

I love it. I hated watching that segment and wondering why the hell Geoff wasn't calling these people out on their lies. Good on ya Jim!

In every revolution, you need the thinkers to remind you what you're fighting for and the shitkickers to actually carry on the fight. In the war of cultural opinion, the shitkickers are the childish prats Jim advocates. Charles Darwin had the facts of evolution on his side, but was a non-confrontational type. It was Huxley who took Darwin's facts and rammed them down everyone's throats, loudly and obnoxiously.

So yeah, send out the barbarian hordes to hammer home the idiocy of FOX News, the sanctimonious moralists and the deluded watchdogs, but have the learned sages ready to back them up with facts and reasoned arguments.

That bit about "games being accepted as an art form" I found particularly comforting.

I hate that whole games as art debate. "Who gives a fuck" is the only point of view that really encompasses my feelings because at the end of the day I'll play whatever games I feel like regardless of whatever the popular opinion is.

I can with no reservation declare that Dino D-Day is no work of art, but regardless it is several hundred times more entertaining to me than The Great Gatsby or any other classic literature you can name.

It's the exact view that makes me turn away from Extra Credits and embrace The Jimquisition. One side thinks games are a creative artistic medium for the expression of ideas and the other thinks games are fun things that people play.

So... my point is, I suppose, that games aren't necessarily art (and who really gives a shit) and combining dinousaurs and nazis is a sure fire way to make money off people who in some way bear the memories of a 6 year old boy.

I know of at least one victory that acting mature got gamers:

Supreme Court sees video games as art
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-27/tech/supreme.court.video.game.art_1_sale-of-violent-video-video-games-hansel-and-gretel?_s=PM:TECH

It's something that will of course have far more impact than any stupid Fox News debate.

That was the most amusing counter-intuitive point I think I've ever heard. "Sinking to their level will convince others, being "mature" will make you look like an ineffectual prick".

Thank "God" for Jim XD

idk. immaturity gets results, but there's gotta be a way to stay on the same level as the opposition and win. in all honesty i think debate on this topic is stupid from the start. every form of media "CAN" and has inspired violence, but that doesn't mean it does to any significant degree, and restricting it will never stop it. the type of people that actually do cause violence after seeing/playing violent things will find the next thing to replace it. there is no censorship that will stop these people, because they are so easy to influence and often search it out/are drawn to it.

I'm not sure why the need to bash fox came up though. its a channel that bills itself as conservative, so of course its gonna have a majority of its speakers on the violence=violence side. its not like liberal stations are any better with other topics. i don't agree with either side on everything, but having everyone shout their own side while putting down the other is not constructive, and a waste of my time. yes each could stand to have a more even sided debate, but both of them are more concerned with their core audience. find the channel that doesn't make your ears bleed and watch it people.

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