Zero Punctuation: Deus Ex

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theriddlen:
Also, few days ago I just like Yahtz have installed Deux Ex, and it's very playable (after you download 2 gigabytes of community fixes and mods).

Which fixes and mods would these be? I have an original installation that still works perfectly well, but it would be nice to make it even better.

CrawlingPastaHellion:

Signa:

The first level is BRUTAL. People were telling me all the way back in 2000 how great it was, but I never got into it. I finally played it with a friend in 2010 and fucking loved it. You really have to die a lot if you aren't used to the game and what it is asking of you. Once you get past that point, it becomes pretty clear why everyone says the game is as good as it is.

I actually played it on hard, as I do most of my games, HR included. ;) Always up for a challenge.

Hm, see, I didn't think that the beginning of DE was hard as much as just "what the fuck I'm I supposed to do? I think it wants me to do this *fail* Ok, guess not, let's try this *fail* Maybe I built my character's stats wrong? *Fail*"

Nothing I did seemed to be good enough for the game. The area was too open for stealth, there was no real gobs of ammo and weapons to go in full assault, and exploring seemed impossible while there were so many bad guys and robots around. It wasn't until those few hours taking turns dying with my friend did I find that you didn't need the ammo I thought you needed, and enemies are actually blind and deaf, as long as you know how to exploit their bad AI and patrol routes.

Having played the Thief series previously probably didn't help with the stealth much either. It just has different expectations for the player.

ewhac:

theriddlen:
Also, few days ago I just like Yahtz have installed Deux Ex, and it's very playable (after you download 2 gigabytes of community fixes and mods).

Which fixes and mods would these be? I have an original installation that still works perfectly well, but it would be nice to make it even better.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?s=0854a290a60f2a59dea9f056e769faa3&t=1235278

EDIT: Right I didn't even read the "original installation" part. These instructions are obviously for the Steam release, but maybe you can get it working on the original? I'm not sure, you'll have to research it. At the very least, that link contains links to several nice graphical improvement mods for Deus Ex.

That'll make the game look much better, especially the lighting. Really helped me get back into it. As far as fixes go, I have no idea. But I didn't experience any bugs at all in my playthrough after installing the above stuff. I have the Steam, GOTY edition.

ewhac:

theriddlen:
Also, few days ago I just like Yahtz have installed Deux Ex, and it's very playable (after you download 2 gigabytes of community fixes and mods).

Which fixes and mods would these be? I have an original installation that still works perfectly well, but it would be nice to make it even better.

Shifter - fixes some remaining bugs, spruces up gameplay

New Vision - High-res textures

HDTP - Higher poly models (not finished, only a few models right now, but still nice)

Deus Ex Revision - A remake of some levels that were bland (optional, but I like it quite a bit so far)

Kentie's Launcer - UI and rendering updates (very nice)

Deus-Ex Enhanced - Fixes some more UI stuff

Go on to ModDB to look them up.

Takes a little to get them to work together, but it's awesome when they do.

Pscyon:
I didn't get past the first hour either. Not when the game was new due to an old crappy monitor which made everything simply too dark (damn you stealth tutorial!) and not now since the game is simply too hard to get into without nostalgia mode which I lack for this particular game.

I'll be crucifed for this but I've never played the other Deus Ex games and I really like Deus Ex HR

A REFERENCE TO THE SCRODUM CRAB!!!!
I remember that that boss was almost impossible.

Helscreama:

I'll be crucifed for this but I've never played the other Deus Ex games and I really like Deus Ex HR

Isn't the contrary?
At this point, the hysteria behind this game already achieve critical mass at the point of anyone who do a little critic will be attacked by the fanwatchers.

You can kill 10 year olds in Deus Ex. I am sure Yahtzee appreciated that very, very much. Sadly, you can't do it in HR.

Geoffrey42:

NameIsRobertPaulson:
From what I have heard, HR combines Bioshock with Gears of War.

Gears gives the regenerating health, the zero skill required guns, the large bosses, and the cover based shooting while Bioshock gives the decent story and upgrade abilities.

Would this be correct, cause a game like that sounds awful, frankly.

Not even remotely. If Bioshock and Gears of War are the best points of reference you (or whoever was describing it) have for the types of gameplay in HR, then you're in for a treat.

Then what would you say in a fair comparison for Deus Ex?

ewhac:

theriddlen:
Also, few days ago I just like Yahtz have installed Deux Ex, and it's very playable (after you download 2 gigabytes of community fixes and mods).

Which fixes and mods would these be? I have an original installation that still works perfectly well, but it would be nice to make it even better.

Well, mine didn't work (colors and sounds were glitched). I followed this tutorial: http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/ceuyh/step_by_step_moddingguide_deus_ex_i_spilled_my/

Now he's got my anticipation building. On one hand, I'd like to see what he has to say about Human Revolution, especially after revisiting the famous original title, but on the other hand, I dread the all-but-inevitable cutting to ribbons of a game I really, really enjoyed.

fuzzy logic:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?s=0854a290a60f2a59dea9f056e769faa3&t=1235278

McShizzle:
Shifter - fixes some remaining bugs, spruces up gameplay

New Vision - High-res textures

HDTP - Higher poly models (not finished, only a few models right now, but still nice)

Deus Ex Revision - A remake of some levels that were bland (optional, but I like it quite a bit so far)

Kentie's Launcer - UI and rendering updates (very nice)

Deus-Ex Enhanced - Fixes some more UI stuff

Go on to ModDB to look them up.

Takes a little to get them to work together, but it's awesome when they do.

Thank you both very kindly for the pointers. I'll be chasing those down tonight.

Signa:

Having played the Thief series previously probably didn't help with the stealth much either. It just has different expectations for the player.

Didn't play Thief before "Deus Ex" (the only one I played was "The Deadly Shadows"), but I used the same tactics I used in Thief: baton the hell out of them unnoticed. ^_^ That's what I call "guerrilla" style of gameplay, not really stealth, since you leave corpses behind, but rather stealthy assault (MGS3 had the same style of gameplay for me).

I don't get it. I really really don't get it. I don't understand the love for this game, and I never have. Its unituitive, its dull, its clunky and unpolished. The graphics are awful as well but that has absolutely nothing to do with my hate for this game.

I clicked on the review hoping Yahtzee would be the first critic to tear it a new one (since he normally seems to hate unintuitive gameplay and we tend to have similar tastes in games) but it sounds like even he found it quite good. I'm just at a loss now to be honest, I feel like I've played an entirely different game to everyone else, and I'm really starting to lose interest in what other gamers think about games since the majority seem to have such different opinions to me and discussing it all is so futile.

I've been playing Human Revolution and it absolutely destroys Deus Ex in every. single. way. The irony is, it's not even an excellent game. Its very good, and probably in my top 5 games of this year, but thats it. But it does everything Deus Ex did in a more entertaining, fluent, intuitive way. It is totally beyond me, how anyone can say a dated dinosaur of a game like Deus Ex can in any way hold a candle to Human Revolution, or for that matter, any decent game released in the last 5 years.

sad truth about nostalgia: people like to delete impleasant parts of their memories. deus ex might have done many things well, yet it's no alibi that would make me play it just because everyone older than me says they did. Same with half life, Black Mesa is the only chance I'll ever try the franchise(continuity reasons).

Finally someone who knows how to pronounce Deus Ex

That about sums up my feelings when I tried to play Deus Ex for the first time recently. It really hasn't aged well.

IMO the Witcher 2 is better the Deus Ex Human Revolution.

DEHR is a good game, just the Witcher 2 is an excellent game!

Nothing about the awkward aiming that puts all awkward aiming before and since to absolute shame, where you have to stand still like an idiot pointing your gun at anything for 20 seconds before you can hit the broadside of a barn at ten paces, even if you're at Master level for that gun?

...Huh.

I think what makes Deus Ex such a great game is quite simply because it never felt like it was trying to be something it wasn't. Despite all it's flaws, it became something unique and I think the developers were in tune with that. Even though the voice acting was atrocious, animations ridiculous, and a lot of the 'solutions' to levels being downright clunky, I don't think any other game has enthralled and immersed me quite as much, because something about the way it was designed was just intuitively thought out. It just oozes brilliance on a level that seems genuinely human, and not systematically manufactured.

I realize most gamers aren't connoisseurs and the current market for games has made a clear distinction behind what is considered "good design" and "bad design", and Deus Ex definitely has more bullet-points from the latter, but I'm hard pressed to name a game that feels like it has more of a soul.

If not for the comments on this video, I never would have known about Yahtzee's Deus Ex song. So good job commenters, that was brilliant.

Now I'm wondering what else I've missed by stopping ZP videos at the credits section.

As an Aussie loved the Queensland joke

Vkmies:

Zeitgeist1983:
I wanted orange, but it gave me lemon-lime!

The machine would not make a mistake!

It's the maintenance man. He knows I like orange.

CrawlingPastaHellion:

Signa:

Having played the Thief series previously probably didn't help with the stealth much either. It just has different expectations for the player.

Didn't play Thief before "Deus Ex" (the only one I played was "The Deadly Shadows"), but I used the same tactics I used in Thief: baton the hell out of them unnoticed. ^_^ That's what I call "guerrilla" style of gameplay, not really stealth, since you leave corpses behind, but rather stealthy assault (MGS3 had the same style of gameplay for me).

yeah, but your blackjack didn't have ammo like the prod charger does, and I rarely, even when I get the jump on a guy, have him go down in one hit. The retracting prod was worse because usually I have to beat them a lot before they go down. It might have to with the fact that there are melee headshots (or so it would seem while I'm playing) in Deus Ex which is something I've not seen in any games before or much after. In Thief, as long as the foe didn't know I was there, I could smack them on the ass with the blackjack and get an instant KO.

AverageJoe:
I don't get it. I really really don't get it. I don't understand the love for this game, and I never have. Its unituitive, its dull, its clunky and unpolished. The graphics are awful as well but that has absolutely nothing to do with my hate for this game.

I clicked on the review hoping Yahtzee would be the first critic to tear it a new one (since he normally seems to hate unintuitive gameplay and we tend to have similar tastes in games) but it sounds like even he found it quite good. I'm just at a loss now to be honest, I feel like I've played an entirely different game to everyone else, and I'm really starting to lose interest in what other gamers think about games since the majority seem to have such different opinions to me and discussing it all is so futile.

I've been playing Human Revolution and it absolutely destroys Deus Ex in every. single. way. The irony is, it's not even an excellent game. Its very good, and probably in my top 5 games of this year, but thats it. But it does everything Deus Ex did in a more entertaining, fluent, intuitive way. It is totally beyond me, how anyone can say a dated dinosaur of a game like Deus Ex can in any way hold a candle to Human Revolution, or for that matter, any decent game released in the last 5 years.

I don't understand anything in your post. Why is the gameplay unintuitive, unless you suffer from ADHD? It's a game that has a very rich and detailed world, excellent level design approachable in many ways. I suggest you watch this video to see why we love this game so much. It has NOTHING to do with nostalgia. The game has complexity and depth, and every game released in the past 10 years just pales in comparison during this cookie cutter bastardized streamlined era.
I have played the game for the first time 7 years ago and replayed it numerous times because I always try different approaches with alternative solutions, find out different dialogue bits and new areas.

The game is a beacon of brilliant design and if you think it doesn't hold a candle to mediocre modern games like Bioshock, I sincerely pity you and everyone else who can't appreciate a game despite a dated look. It's noteworthy how the game grows in popularity every year. Lots of people have played it for the first time in the past few years and had a blast so no, no nostalgia here. And everyone reinstalls it every time it gets a mention. No other game gets the same treatment.

Apart from the dated look, Deus Ex didn't age at all. It's a timeless classic that has yet to be surpassed, but at this rate never will be because every developer caters to the widest audience possible, removing such depth and complexity.

edit
Here's the intro with graphic mods for you guys who don't know whether they'll be turned off by the dated look. Decide for yourself if this is decent enough.

octafish:

Vkmies:

Zeitgeist1983:
I wanted orange, but it gave me lemon-lime!

The machine would not make a mistake!

It's the maintenance man. He knows I like orange.

So you think the staff has some kind of plot against you?

Still the best game ever made in my book. I think we can chalk this game as one that Yahtzee likes.

Helscreama:

Pscyon:
I didn't get past the first hour either. Not when the game was new due to an old crappy monitor which made everything simply too dark (damn you stealth tutorial!) and not now since the game is simply too hard to get into without nostalgia mode which I lack for this particular game.

I'll be crucifed for this but I've never played the other Deus Ex games and I really like Deus Ex HR

You're fine. :) Those that should be in fear of judgment are those that say "I liked Invisible War." Cause wow... that's a bold claim. :) Deus Ex 1 is old enough that it's understandable that people will have never played it. I've got a friend older than me that tried it well after its "expiration date" and couldn't get passed the dated textures. It's okay. :) But if you can, or can at least beef up the graphics with a mod, you're in for a treat.

Still, Human Revolution is a nice successor.

uguito-93:

And I get the feeling he really doesnt like John Romero, but that could just be me.

does anyone?

OT great look back, alas it is so true

Imbechile:

octafish:

Vkmies:

The machine would not make a mistake!

It's the maintenance man. He knows I like orange.

So you think the staff has some kind of plot against you?

YES! THEY DO IT ON PURPOSE!

WouldYouKindly:
I think he'll like DE:HR for what it is, but when comparing it to the original, he'll probably not like it as much.

Yeh, kinda like Portal 2, he enjoyed it, but he enjoyed the first one more.

OT: i loved the part where he said "it's as hard to break as a wet Weetabix" i nearly died of laughter (but then again i laugh at pretty much anything)

Can't wait to see what he thinks of Human Revolution.

lol, that was a good one! lots of classic lines!

I played the original Deus Ex just prior to Human Revolution and I finally completed it, too.

While it's true that Human Revolution isn't as complex as the original and it does suffer from a minor case of Modern FPS Must Haves, I think it's much better in the story department. Not how it's told, but the actual story. Don't worry, no spoilers. I liked the GITS and Blade Runner influences a lot, even if it meant a few un-twists for me, but it's dragged down by Deus Ex' incredibly cheesy plot.

Towards the end Deus Ex' philosophical depth gets really interesting, but the overarching plot just sounds like a bad Bond movie. Too cheesy for today I think. Human Revolution has a much more serious tone to it in my opinion, and it's dragged down by the original DX' plot it still has to weave in.

Human Revolution also has much better characters you actually care about. I put all my points into sneaky approaches and reloaded X times to win against impossible odds to save a minor character because they grew on to me. On highest difficulty level, too.

Queensland...

I still think that "System Shock 2" was better than the original "Deus Ex". Don't get me wrong: I loved the original (even if I do admit I like HR more overall, except for the music), but "System Shock 2" just clicked more with me: it had a much more involved character progression, story was much, much better and I up to this day consider Shodan to be the best villain of all time.

But as Marik Bentusi said: the philosophical conundrums and the A.I. events aside, the story in "Deus Ex" is very cheesy and I understood that better after I replayed it only recently on my PS2 (I was 15 when I played it the first time, was hardly a critically thinking fellow I am now). What "Deus Ex" got that "System Shock 2" didn't have was the freedom from which one could approach a problem. "System Shock 2" suffered from a more "head-on" approach, as most games suffer from (except for "Hitman: Blood Money", the only other game like that in my memory). Still, even "System Shock 2" had that to some degree, it was just more prominent in "Deus Ex".

[WARNING: might be considered a spoiler]

I was delighted when I hacked a terminal at the Spec-Ops base in HR, killing about ten soldiers through a hacked turret. That's what "Deus Ex" is and should be: freedom of choice.

[WARNING: end of a potential spoiler]

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