Jimquisition: Online Passes Are Bad For Everybody

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bombadilillo:

Irridium:

bombadilillo:

Gamefly my friend. Or perhaps now Qwickster? Is that right? Whatever, I am waiting to see their priced.

Gamefly is even moving into renting PC games. YOU HEARD THAT RIGHT! Anyway its cheaper and you dont get burned paying 60$ for shit games that you would just sell to gamestop and then publishers whine about it.

Tried Gamefly, didn't go over too well with me. Really long wait times mainly. Hopefully Qwickster will be better though.

When did you use them? Because I used it when they first came out and it sucked. Got back on it a year or so ago and its a 2 day turn around (netflix being 1 day) So it got better. I have high hopes for Qwickster.

Last year. All the games I wanted to rent had long wait times on them. Mostly older games that I didn't get a chance to play when I was younger, and they're not sold anymore.

Zhukov:

Sucal:
Just pointing out, that any american who complains about $60 games should come buy games in Australia.

And any Australian who complains about game prices should try buying their games in New Zealand.
And any Kiwi who complains about game prices should try buying their games in Morocco.

Any Moroccan complaining about game buying should try buy

Paragon Fury:
Online passes are good for games.

They fight used sales (and often times the cost of the Online Pass + Used Game is still almost $10-$20 cheaper than the new game) and don't actually do any harm to new customers. Rental customers are such a small part of the base and by their very nature don't plan on having the game very long so the multiplayer is likely not a terribly important part of their experience.

However, the only change I would make to the idea is that instead of totally locking people out of the multiplayer, you instead do what games Homefront and Space Marine do;

Let people play the multiplayer up to a certain level/point and then either don't let them advance anymore or let them use MM.

This way renters could still get a taste of the MP for their short time, and it gives Used Buyers/Borrowers the option to try out the MP before deciding if they want to buy the Online Pass.

Used Sales: The Evil Bane of the games industry that must be fought off at any and all costs.

bombadilillo:

FelixG:
You know. Normally I agree with Jim, but this time I really dont...

The idea of people wanting to test a new IP being driven off by online pass is sorta...wha? How is that bad? They can try out the game, play through all of its single player content without ever bothering with a CD key...

And ok, so console players are having to deal with the same stuff PC players have been sense...when? forever? Oh wait...they arent...they just have to put in a code once...when they want to go online...the first time.

And ok, so two games come out on the same day, you want to play both, you can afford one...Just buy one? Decide which you want more. I have to do this often as a PC gamer, console players can just suck it up. Because there are two games you want does not mean you are entitled to both. Hell, there are a number of cars/electronics/what have you that I want but I cant afford them all, but you dont see me going to related message boards complaining about it.

But overall, its the game devs or publishers servers, you want to play on em you pay em.

If someone bought a game and didnt think it was worth keeping so I get it for cheaper. How is that bad?

Saying installing on PC is a shitty proccess so its ok for installing on a console to go from easy to shitty. That is not a good arguement.

You missed the point on the buy 2 games. He said used game credit LETS YOU BUY 2. Which means THE MONEY IS GOING INTO THE INDUSTRY.

Its not just multiplayer, though thats popular now. Dragon age had missing characters, other simgle player content in other games. Its not "Their servers" thats an excuse.

If you think the game is worth getting maybe the people that made the game should get a little love for their work? Or should it be all about the end user and not the people who make the things that are so enjoyed?

I never said that my feelings made a good argument. It is just hard to feel sorry for console gamers when I have been dealing with it my whole gaming career.

I will happen to disagree with the practice of removing characters and items from a game for day 1 DLC. I will support online pass till the end of my day but hiss at day 1 DLC.

And sure, maybe 1 in 5 will use that trade in money to buy a new game, but the other 4 will just buy more used games, thus no more money into the industry, more money into gamestops pockets.

JustaGigolo:

brandon237:
Not everyone has money coming out of their asses, I live in a third world country. With current exchange rates (which are very good for my country at the moment), a game like Dead space 2 can cost $80... and some special edition crap things around $90-100... and this is a country where the GDP per Capita per year is under $15 000... way under that actually.
And often your online pass will be rendered useless after a while as the servers empty out anyway!

And it is capitalism... if the publishers can't compete in it, they should change their idiocy and learn to make do the way normal companies do, the games industry is the only one with this shit, they can't change the rules of the capitalistic market to suit themselves...

Man, I wish I had some made up sob story so I could use it as an excuse to help kill the medium I enjoy.

Last time I checked, most third world people didn't have internet access and video game consoles. Unless they were the son of a blood thirsty dictator or something.

South Africa has a decent-seized working population you know, the world is not composed entirely of "backwater slums where bread is worth your life" and "rich utopias", there is some middle-ground, my middle ground happens to be slightly more to the shitty side, but I still have electricity, a PC, a few stores nearby with games... I live in a city that is responsible for 10% of the profit earned legally on the entire African continent, it is not that dead economically, and you thinking that is shows that I am probably wasting my time.

And read my other posts before you comment, Oh yes, and make an effort to understand them, reading in itself is not all that useful.

Here it if you are lazy:

People like me who buy used from time to time (not even that often, at least 70-80% of my games were purchased brand-new, despite the rip-off prices) do not damage the industry, people with your opinion on this subject do damage my IQ though.

[1] It is nice to buy new, and people do it where they can, and people do want new releases from time to time

What a lot of people in the comments here are forgetting is Jim's first point, about how used games are traded in for NEW games. So when publishers say they don't see a dime of a used game sale, that is BS because they DO see it, in the NEW game sales.

Jim Sterling never whines. He complains.

Kojiro ftt:
What a lot of people in the comments here are forgetting is Jim's first point, about how used games are traded in for NEW games. So when publishers say they don't see a dime of a used game sale, that is BS because they DO see it, in the NEW game sales.

I would like to see these figures on how many people that trade in buy the next thing new. I used to work at gamestop, and the majority of the folk that I saw trade in their old games bought... any one want to guess? more used games!

People can sound all high and mighty on the internet, but when it comes down to it, most people would rather save 5 bucks and screw the developers.

Y'know, online passes didn't p*** me off enough to actually care (although they do annoy the hell outta me) but now...They really do sound just as evil as imhotep. And that's evil.

Jim you obviously never played any PC game... your pass code take 5 min once... Installing a game on a PC take much more time than that -_-

I don't like online passes, but so long as they're free (and optional) content for new purchasers, I can't exactly hate them for it.

Jim is VERY wrong when he says it's "bad for everyone" when I believe it was EA that said they just got over $50 million dollars from online passes. That's $50 million more dollars they would have never gotten if they had just let Gamestop hog all the used game money, and that's $50 million more put into the pot for future games and developers to use.

Online passes are VERY good... for the publishers and developers.

Indirectly, they are a hassle for customers.

Concerning used game sales, Jim IS right on the money when he says used games can spur interest in sequels. I remember Dead Space 1 announced that it sold 1 million copies... but their data showed that over 3 million people had played the game using used copies. That means more than half the people that played the game didn't buy it. That's bad, right?

But people loved it. The sequel came out, Dead Space 2, and it sold 1 million copies in its FIRST WEEK and has become a much more successful game because those that played the first now wanted to buy the sequel. The interest was created by the new IP years ago, set the groundwork, and the sequel capitalized on it.

That's good. That's great even. That's how the game industry can and should benefit from used game sales.

FelixG:

bombadilillo:

FelixG:
You know. Normally I agree with Jim, but this time I really dont...

The idea of people wanting to test a new IP being driven off by online pass is sorta...wha? How is that bad? They can try out the game, play through all of its single player content without ever bothering with a CD key...

And ok, so console players are having to deal with the same stuff PC players have been sense...when? forever? Oh wait...they arent...they just have to put in a code once...when they want to go online...the first time.

And ok, so two games come out on the same day, you want to play both, you can afford one...Just buy one? Decide which you want more. I have to do this often as a PC gamer, console players can just suck it up. Because there are two games you want does not mean you are entitled to both. Hell, there are a number of cars/electronics/what have you that I want but I cant afford them all, but you dont see me going to related message boards complaining about it.

But overall, its the game devs or publishers servers, you want to play on em you pay em.

If someone bought a game and didnt think it was worth keeping so I get it for cheaper. How is that bad?

Saying installing on PC is a shitty proccess so its ok for installing on a console to go from easy to shitty. That is not a good arguement.

You missed the point on the buy 2 games. He said used game credit LETS YOU BUY 2. Which means THE MONEY IS GOING INTO THE INDUSTRY.

Its not just multiplayer, though thats popular now. Dragon age had missing characters, other simgle player content in other games. Its not "Their servers" thats an excuse.

If you think the game is worth getting maybe the people that made the game should get a little love for their work? Or should it be all about the end user and not the people who make the things that are so enjoyed?

I never said that my feelings made a good argument. It is just hard to feel sorry for console gamers when I have been dealing with it my whole gaming career.

I will happen to disagree with the practice of removing characters and items from a game for day 1 DLC. I will support online pass till the end of my day but hiss at day 1 DLC.

And sure, maybe 1 in 5 will use that trade in money to buy a new game, but the other 4 will just buy more used games, thus no more money into the industry, more money into gamestops pockets.

They got love, when somebody bought the game. Then they got hate because somebody didnt feel that game was worth keeping. So its on the designers shoulders, they already got paid. I just got a sweet Blue Oyester Cult LP at a yard say. I dont feel bad they didnt get a nickle out of that 1$.

Wow, thats cold. As a pc/console gamer. Man the best part about console is just putting something in and it works. Its nice not to have to tweet settings to get shit to run in 7. I dont think thats fun. I am sad the casualness is getting raped out of console caming.

day 1 dlc and online pass are the same thing to me. If you want to keep with the sever thing. Then Let me host my own games with friends and not use public servers if thats what its about. Its all content that is stripped from the game.

You cant know that. I have literally opposite anacdotal evidence so we can agree to disagree but 1 in 5 is straight out of your ass.

Talvrae:
Jim you obviously never played any PC game... your pass code take 5 min once... Installing a game on a PC take much more time than that -_-

I could be wrong but I think he is primarily a PC gamer.

FelixG:

Kojiro ftt:
What a lot of people in the comments here are forgetting is Jim's first point, about how used games are traded in for NEW games. So when publishers say they don't see a dime of a used game sale, that is BS because they DO see it, in the NEW game sales.

I would like to see these figures on how many people that trade in buy the next thing new. I used to work at gamestop, and the majority of the folk that I saw trade in their old games bought... any one want to guess? more used games!

That's a good point, numbers would be very useful. But I know that when I was a kid, I traded in my used games for new ones, generally.

I have never had to deal with this because I buy all my multiplayer games on steam for P.C. so I don't really have much of a position on this at all like I usually do. but I do buy singeplayer games on Nintendo consoles and I never buy used. As for when im gaming on a budget, that's what steam sales are for, almost every day there is a great game on steam that Is much cheaper on a steam sale than the console version is used AND the developer/publisher get much more money than if somebody bought it used. ya I know that steam takes a cut but anybody who thinks they take more money from the devs than gamestop is an insufferable idiot.

Metalhandkerchief:
Online passes are good for games.

They fight used sales

Used sales: The evil bane of the game industry that must be fought off at any and all costs.

bombadilillo:

FelixG:

bombadilillo:

If someone bought a game and didnt think it was worth keeping so I get it for cheaper. How is that bad?

Saying installing on PC is a shitty proccess so its ok for installing on a console to go from easy to shitty. That is not a good arguement.

You missed the point on the buy 2 games. He said used game credit LETS YOU BUY 2. Which means THE MONEY IS GOING INTO THE INDUSTRY.

Its not just multiplayer, though thats popular now. Dragon age had missing characters, other simgle player content in other games. Its not "Their servers" thats an excuse.

If you think the game is worth getting maybe the people that made the game should get a little love for their work? Or should it be all about the end user and not the people who make the things that are so enjoyed?

I never said that my feelings made a good argument. It is just hard to feel sorry for console gamers when I have been dealing with it my whole gaming career.

I will happen to disagree with the practice of removing characters and items from a game for day 1 DLC. I will support online pass till the end of my day but hiss at day 1 DLC.

And sure, maybe 1 in 5 will use that trade in money to buy a new game, but the other 4 will just buy more used games, thus no more money into the industry, more money into gamestops pockets.

They got love, when somebody bought the game. Then they got hate because somebody didnt feel that game was worth keeping. So its on the designers shoulders, they already got paid. I just got a sweet Blue Oyester Cult LP at a yard say. I dont feel bad they didnt get a nickle out of that 1$.

Wow, thats cold. As a pc/console gamer. Man the best part about console is just putting something in and it works. Its nice not to have to tweet settings to get shit to run in 7. I dont think thats fun. I am sad the casualness is getting raped out of console caming.

day 1 dlc and online pass are the same thing to me. If you want to keep with the sever thing. Then Let me host my own games with friends and not use public servers if thats what its about. Its all content that is stripped from the game.

You cant know that. I have literally opposite anacdotal evidence so we can agree to disagree but 1 in 5 is straight out of your ass.

Just because a game is traded in doesnt mean the previous owner didnt enjoy it, there are a number of my PC games that I absolutely loved but have only played once, maybe twice.

And yes, it is cold. I am a cold person, I will be the first to admit it! I am not shamed by this fact nor will I apologize for it. And to be fair, you can still pop in your game and play, I can do it with most of the console games I buy (sometimes a console exclusive appeals to me), but then again I buy new and have rarely been hassled for something I didnt want. But then again, I wanted my content for Mass Effect 2, so I didnt mind poping the code in for 2 minutes.

And yes the 1 in 5 is a number I made up, but its just as real as saying "All used sales contribute to new sales!" or any other number that can be thrown up until empirical evidence can be found. But no reason to curse at me during a polite conversation.

FelixG:

Talvrae:
Jim you obviously never played any PC game... your pass code take 5 min once... Installing a game on a PC take much more time than that -_-

I could be wrong but I think he is primarily a PC gamer.

You are right, he is primarily PC and has a big E-Penis rig that can run blah blah blah.

Point is console gaming is supposed to be plug and play. I put the disk in and it works. Just cause pc games are borderline retarded to get working doesnt mean console games should be too, and they USED to work and publishers are making it harder on fucking purpose. Thats the complain.

Eh, the online passes bit..With the "Oh no! It's wasting my time!" is something I can deal with. I was online when you had to fucking HOST a game, then give out your serial-number, THEN wait for people to find you, join the game, etc..Ugh, the days before Battlenets.
ANYWAY; Forcing people to pay extra for used games, because you feel you are "robbed" of that money, is bullcrap. It doesn't hold water as an argument on any form (you never earned that money to begin with, people are free to sell their own shit however they want, people already pay money for your Xbox/PS3 online services that you provide so that they can play online, etc..), but is just a sign of greedy publishers wanting more money.
Now, I rarely buy used games (because I'm a PC-tard and just wait really long for the games to drop in price), but I can certainly see why people complain about it.

Multi reply to a bunch of posts follows:

hitheremynameisbob:

Mouse_Crouse:
The publishers not seeing any money dosen't hold up either, because EVERY used game anywhere ever, was once a new game that was purchased.

That's just wrong. The point people make when they say that is that the publisher could have sold TWO games, not just one, because two different people bought it. If you couldn't sell used games, some of the people who bought it used WOULD buy it new. Meanwhile, that person who first bought the game which was later sold as used is fairly likely to still buy it - hence two new sales instead of just the one.

As usual, when people make this argument, you fail to take into account people who simply look at the price of two new games and say, no thank you to one or both. So whether a person buys one game, or one new game and one used game, it's still only one new sale for the publisher.

There's absolutely no guarantee that if there weren't used games available people would buy those very same games new for full price. Without the option of a used title, those very same people would wait for a price drop.

It as an unassailable fact that while video gaming is not the most expensive hobby, it is clearly a hobby that takes a significant amount of disposable income if you want to play new games. If you're like me, and you don't play online and you're happy to play older games, it's not a problem. However, there are lots of different types of consumers and some people, who really, really love gaming and playing new games may not be in a position to pay $60 every time a new game comes out.

JustaGigolo:
You know what hurts the game industry even more than online passes? Cheap people who wait a month after a game comes out just to get a used copy of a game, thus giving all their money to Gamestop, and not the creators or publishers of the game.

"Oh no, I can't play this shitty multiplayer without putting in a code. Oh woe is me."

Totally disagree. It's not "cheap" people, it's overpriced games. Tell me another entertainment medium that expects you to pay $60+ for a new product? Bluray movies? Nope. CDs? Not even at their highest prices. Movie theatre tickets? Nuh uh. The only comparable price range is live theatre and music tickets and with that you're getting a live experience, watching your favourite artist or real human beings work their craft.

Like many others, I think that $60 is too expensive for new games. I mostly buy new games when they come down in price, a smattering of used and the occasional new game at full price if it's something I'm looking forward to or I'm feeling especially flush. Regardless of whether or not you consider me "cheap", the pricing model of the gaming industry is losing publishers new sales from customers like me, and I'd feel pretty safe betting that for every person that is willing to shell out $60 every time a game comes out, there's two or three of us who don't.

Paragon Fury:
Online passes are good for games.

They fight used sales (and often times the cost of the Online Pass + Used Game is still almost $10-$20 cheaper than the new game) and don't actually do any harm to new customers. Rental customers are such a small part of the base and by their very nature don't plan on having the game very long so the multiplayer is likely not a terribly important part of their experience.

Wrong and wrong. Online passes and other DRM schemes drive people to pirate games because it's easier, much easier in the end, to pirate a game than it is to jump through the hoops the publisher puts in front of their paying customers.

Second, I don't know where you live, but here, used games at GS or Best Buy are typically only $5 cheaper for the first 4 to 6 months of a games release. After that time period they generally drop down. (Personally, I think that's a ridiculous pricing scheme on the part of those companies, because I'd hazard that a majority of gamers would happily pay the $5 extra for a new copy instead of the used, with the result that retailers just end up with loads of used games sitting on their shelves. At various times I've seen dozens and dozens of copies of games like Resistance 1&2 and MW 1&2 sitting on shelves for $54.99 unsold for months on end)

Azuaron:
I believe Penny Arcade said it best when they said: When you buy a game used, you are not a customer of the publisher, you're a customer of Gamestop (or wherever). (They talk, at length, about this in their news section that day.)

If nothing else, servers and bandwidth are expensive. If you want to use a publisher's servers and bandwidth, they have a right to bloody charge you.

Here's the thing though: regardless of whether the person playing the game bought it new or used, there's a finite number of games out there that are being used. Say, for simplicity's sake, it's 100. There's 100 games sold and 100 people playing on line. I sell my copy to you. I'm not playing anymore, but you are, so there are still 100 gamers playing the game. Yes, that's grossly simplified, but all Game Stop and other companies are doing is being the middleman between two customers. Sure, we could all use craigslist to sell and buy our used games and no one would make a peep, but no one wants to go through the hassle of posting listings every time they want to sell a game, or searching the internet for a used copy of something they want.

As has been argued many, many times, used sales are not an issue in other media (books, CDs, movies, cars, etc.) so why games? I've yet to hear a good answer.

The bottom line is that you can't equate a used sale to a lost sale for the publisher one to one. It's just not the case. If I can't buy, say Madden 12 (just an example) used for $20, I simply will not buy it at all, period. So either way, as far as the publisher is concerned, it's a "lost sale".

Furthermore, in regards to that PA strip... guess what? Either way I'm a customer of Gamestop. The publisher does not sell directly to me. They've already made their profit from the copies that GS has ordered. I've never purchased a game directly from the publisher because the industry is not set up that way. EA, THQ or whoever does not care who is buying the games, just that they are purchased.

alinos:

except the games industry is like no other.

when you buy a used car it has wear and tear. A game does not. (if a used game has wear and tear generally it's painstakingly obvious. But trying telling whether or not the headgasket on the used car you have bought doesn't have a crack in it. That's going to break in a month.

You don't buy a car drive it to Mcdonalds then decide you want a new car. take it down to the lot you just bought the thing from slap a 10% discount on it and sell it. It simply doesn't work that way.

The only other industries that have even a comparable product to games are DVD's and Music CD's. Most of which when you buy you don't resell. And if you do you resell them yourself. They aren't being sold next to brand new copies of the same product the very next day.

I agree that the games industry is not quite like any other, but I disagree with your other assumptions.

A game may not have "wear and tear", but there are other considerations. Does it have online play? Are people still playing, are the servers up? Is the manual beat up?

Some people do in fact, buy a new car once a year and trade the old one in, or lease yearly.

So, you've never, ever been to a store that sells both new and used DVDs/CDs? I sure have. In fact, there's still one big one going in my city. Just because you don't personally see it, doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Sylocat:

Nurb:
I'm surprised that he hasn't pointed out that there is NO OTHER INDUSTRY that feels entitled to more money when a customer resells their product.

Shit, that's like companies demanding a cut of the sales from ebay.

There's no other industry where CONSUMERS feel entitled to buy a much cheaper used product that is functionally identical to the original.

When you buy a used car, you are accepting that there will be a certain amount of wear and tear, and thus some decreased functionality. When you buy a used book, you are risking page damage. A used VHS will have degraded some, a used DVD will probably have scratches and scuffs. Consumers don't care, or at least they don't blame the manufacturer.

But used games? When you play online, you are using the PUBLISHER's bandwidth. Bandwidth costs money. If you don't pay for the game, you are stealing money from them. Even the tired pirate argument of, "DURR, THEY DONT LOOZE ANY MUNNY FROM PIRACY, LOL!" doesn't apply, because you are costing them money for bandwidth.

"Page damage"? Really? Come the fuck on. Unless a page is actually missing, a used book is "functionally identical to the original". And guess what? Used games can also have scratches and scuffs.

Sure, bandwidth costs money, so if publishers want to charge a subscription fee that's fine. But to claim that playing a used game online is stealing is the highest form of bullshit. You buy the game new and play for a while. Then you give the game to me and I play. There's still just one player using that copy and the publisher got their full price. So where does the stealing come in, pray tell? It doesn't, plain and simple. If my brother and I share a copy of a game that I've paid for is he "stealing" every time he plays it? Of course not and it would be ludicrous to say so, but that's essentially what you are claiming. Instead of parroting some bullshit spouted by some douchebag CEO, trying thinking for yourself.

pheipl:
The very existence of used game selling (in this format) is total bull.
I don't care what you Americans complain about, a game in central europe is the exact same price but in some countries (mine) our salaries don't hold a candle to US salaries (it's a joke to compare them) yet I still buy new games. HOW DARES GAMESTOP to re-sell a game and give nothing to the publisher / developer (what ever) ?
I don't understand developers that let their game be re-sold and get NOTHING from that process. I 100% disagree with you sir!

You really don't understand how commerce and business works at all, do you? Certainly it's your privilege to take your hard earned cash and buy one new game, but why cheat yourself that way? You're supporting an industry that says $60(CDN/USD) is acceptable. Do you really think that's an appropriate price? If it was, we wouldn't have so many people buying used games.

In my opinion $60 is too much and I only pay it rarely. I would buy a lot more new games if they were $40 for me. But publishers want $60 from me. Guess what, they don't get it at all. I would happily pay $80 for two new games, but I rarely pay $60 for one. And
that's fact. Publishers are greedy and they won't sustain this pricing structure for much longer.

Sorry for the epic post, dudes! haha

MeTheMe:
Once again, this shows us the need to vote with our wallets. If a game with a new pass was released that was annoying and intrusive, and no one bought it because of that, don't you think they'd rethink what they'd just done? Same for intrusive DRM. Yeah, I may not get to play the game I want to for a while, but I try to send a message.

Nope, they would use piracy as an excuse for their (nonexistent) sales, and then implement DRM similar or worse than that of Ubisoft's.

bombadilillo:

FelixG:

Talvrae:
Jim you obviously never played any PC game... your pass code take 5 min once... Installing a game on a PC take much more time than that -_-

I could be wrong but I think he is primarily a PC gamer.

You are right, he is primarily PC and has a big E-Penis rig that can run blah blah blah.

Point is console gaming is supposed to be plug and play. I put the disk in and it works. Just cause pc games are borderline retarded to get working doesnt mean console games should be too, and they USED to work and publishers are making it harder on fucking purpose. Thats the complain.

What kind of PC are you playing on? ~.~ I have a dozen games installed on my PC at any given time and I dont have to mess with any of their settings to get them to work properly.

Are you trying to run Windows games on Linux? Thats the only environment where I can see what you are saying.

When I find out a game that interests me has online passes, I buy it used to spite the developers, even if the money saved is small. Fuck that bullshit.

Mouse_Crouse:
I just don't understand why people are so against used games. The pump money into the industry and courts have upheld time and time again that we have the right to sell our licensed product to others. The publishers not seeing any money dosen't hold up either, because EVERY used game anywhere ever, was once a new game that was purchased.

1) Used games do NOT pump money back into the industry...The only profit from used games goes to the retailer.

2) Sure, every used game used to be new at one point but look at it this way:
Say, LoveFilm buy 500 copies of RAGE new. Theres the profits from 500 sales that go to the devs of said game. 1000 people then rent that game from LoveFilm. Sure, 500 were bought originally but theres the profits of 1000 sales lost. Money the devs deserve due to the massive amount of time spent on games now. Time those guys spent working overnight away from their families to make a game in the hope that people would wise up to the fact that they need the money to keep developing games.

rant fucking over!!!

FelixG:

bombadilillo:

FelixG:

I could be wrong but I think he is primarily a PC gamer.

You are right, he is primarily PC and has a big E-Penis rig that can run blah blah blah.

Point is console gaming is supposed to be plug and play. I put the disk in and it works. Just cause pc games are borderline retarded to get working doesnt mean console games should be too, and they USED to work and publishers are making it harder on fucking purpose. Thats the complain.

What kind of PC are you playing on? ~.~ I have a dozen games installed on my PC at any given time and I dont have to mess with any of their settings to get them to work properly.

Are you trying to run Windows games on Linux? Thats the only environment where I can see what you are saying.

Semi older games usually on steam sales + Windows 7.

I couldn't agree more. He completely nailed it.

Mcoffey:
When I find out a game that interests me has online passes, I buy it used to spite the developers, even if the money saved is small. Fuck that bullshit.

I rent games almost always before I buy them. If it has any of this is it there is 0 chance I will buy it then. Im with you.

Why the fuck haven't I played Crackdown yet?

Game companies like their gamers complacent, apathetic, and stupid. It's win-win for them.

It's a shame we let them win, though.

I do miss the days of just popping stuff in a console and playing. Wasn't that the whole freaking point?

I don't mind online passes at all. I can't blame them for using it, and I encourage it, so even the small guys can make money

Except publishers and developers dont see a dime of that used game money...so most every scenario you put forth loses that developer money because they all require massive influxes of used games where only the first few only have to buy that game new...used means 5 million people can go buy that game used and keep selling it back and 10 million get to play it and the developer or publisher doesn't see a dime from those 10 million users.

Theres a reasons used game sales are a hinderance to this industry now...Because gamestop is a world wide buisness and thus they take in millions upon millions of used games unlike how it used to be where the used game buisness was far smaller and was actually a benefit to the industry its no longer a benefit it sucks up more money then new game sales can possibly take in.

WilliamRLBaker:

Theres a reasons used game sales are a hinderance to this industry now...Because gamestop is a world wide buisness and thus they take in millions upon millions of used games unlike how it used to be where the used game buisness was far smaller and was actually a benefit to the industry its no longer a benefit it sucks up more money then new game sales can possibly take in.

You never hear hollywood bitching about used dvd sales, where they potentially lose alot more since the budgets for most movies are significantly larger than a video games.

What's EA's excuse?

Nico4:
I don't mind online passes at all. I can't blame them for using it, and I encourage it, so even the small guys can make money

What small guys out there using online pass can you give us an example of?

Ha! An excellent episode.
And I wholly agree with you, Jim.

I feel like online passes are one of the smallest issues and I wouldn't battle publishers over them. A couple thoughts:

1) The whole "you're wasting my time" issue comes off as childish. Its annoying to enter a pass code, sure, but then its over. Its really not a big deal.

2) His argument ignores people who don't play online games. I didn't play a single online game seriously until two or three years ago, and I've been gaming since I was six (I'm 18). So it doesn't affect those people. Just thought they should be recognized.

3) I feel like the used game industry is going to collapse soon. With the advent of Steam, OnLive, and the XBLA and PSN, I feel like the next generation of consoles will be--or will at least approach--digital-distribution only models. And if that is the case, you won't be able to have used games. And then publishers would be content and wouldn't need to bother with online passes.

My basic take is:
Good games don't get traded in very often.
Great games don't get traded in hardly at all.
Most games get traded in quickly and repeatedly.

Anyone who wants to get rid of or subvert this model wants fewer good and great games and more "normal" (ie. shit) games.

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