Zero Punctuation: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

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I do agree that it was rather small I had heard that they made it with only 1 town because people were saying that the towns in zelda games were for side quest and didn't really help anything so they put them all in one place and left the ground for exploring. I didn't like it because it felt like I was never going anywhere. I also agree with what he said about link needing to prove his worth for everything he already has the sword what other proof do you need? (stupid water dragon)

Lordofthesuplex:

Also, I thought the bosses that don't involve you using the dungeon's item were supposed to be a good thing? Because everyone complains that "enter dungeon, get item, use on boss" is too samey? Well, which way do you want it, Yahtzee?!

I think it's easier to say that he just wants the franchise in general to die. See this is why I come in hear and call him out on his bullcrap (or complain, depending on your point of view) every time he reviews a Nintendo game. Let's ignore the fact that I am myself a Nintendo fan for a second, okay? That doesn't change the fact that his hatred of the company is getting old and isn't funny any more and just making him look more and more like a self-righteous Nintendo hater and I think it's bad enough that the Sony fanbase is full of those idiots as is.

I think it's better that if Yahtzee can't give the company credit where credit is due, then he should keep his opinion on it to himself and just not review Nintendo games anymore.

If he could get away with it...I'm sure he would...but then fanboys would complain if he doesnt review super mario 3d land

Let's see... does Yahtzee hate on the Motion Controls in the review? Yep? Dammit, that stopped being funny about four YEARS ago. It's old hat at this point.

I am still baffled that Zelda games, out of most games, get the most vitriol from critics and fans for being "too samey" when they're often the most fundamentally different games to exist. Skyward Sword has a totally new world, totally new art style, totally new story, totally new characters, totally new puzzles, totally new upgrade system, totally new world navigation, totally new bosses, totally new items, totally new monsters and races, and a totally new control system that no other video game has... and yet the same "it's too the same" card gets thrown out.

Skyward Sword, while not flawless, is still a more fresh and original game than, say... Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, Saints Row 3, Dead Rising 2/Off the Record, Arkham City, Gears of War 3, Uncharted 3, and even Skyrim. Seriously, Skyrim is great, but it's just a better looking, better playing version of Oblivion/Morrowind/Daggerfall/Arena.

I'd love to see other games follow Zelda's formula of changing so much per game while keeping the things that work. Nobody who has seriously played a Zelda game can say Majora's Mask is hardly anything like Spirit Tracks, or Skyward Sword is anything like Zelda 2, or Wind Waker is anything like Four Swords. Yet they're all great in their own way and yet very, very, very different.

So, maybe that's why I didn't find Yahtzee's complaints funny this go around. It's stuff I've heard for years now, and yet I fail to see the truth of it. Yeah, things like Link wearing green and using a sword and going to dungeons are in every game, but not even Ganon or Zelda are in every game, and that's like saying Mario should stop jumping on enemies' heads and getting mushrooms and fighting Bowser to save Princess Peach... it's the same thing, right? Yet Mario games, from Super Mario Bros to Mario Galaxy, are rarely called too "samey". I would like to know why Zelda, more than any other series, one where we get one great game every 3-5 years, gets called out for it when we've had over 8 Call of Duty games in less than 10 years.

trollpwner:
"Skyward Sword is the worst Zelda game ever".

Wow, we aren't just going to need a flameshield, we need a flamebunker!

Except that barring the CDI games, I think he's dead on. Skyward Sword is easily the least inspired of the series, even though the crazy Zelda fanboys will ignore that fact. Especially when he uses the examples of the newer Kirby games, which are constantly doing new and interesting things.

Nintendo has been pumping out the same Zelda game pretty much since Link to the Past, with Wind Waker being enough of an offshoot to not mind. What is grim is my favorite Zelda game isn't even made by Nintendo. (Capcom's Minish Cap, fuck yeah.)

Trishbot:
I would like to know why Zelda, more than any other series, one where we get one great game every 3-5 years, gets called out for it when we've had over 8 Call of Duty games in less than 10 years.

If I remember correctly, it's 14 CoD games in 10 years while it's 16-18 Zelda games trough 25 years (including all platforms).

But you're completely right.

Lordofthesuplex:

Way to fuck up my holiday Yahtzee. The one game I wanted you to completely ignore and you couldn't even do that. Someone ought to force you to play the CDi games as punishment for this. There's having an opinion, and then there's being a closeted hater. Guess which category you fall under?

I'm about ready to hit my breaking point with this guy.

It's clear you don't like Yahtzee and that you dislike what he says, so why watch him? I mean, surely, you'll just enjoy yourself more if you don't. Just ignore him.

BiH-Kira:
SNIP

Same for you. Why put yourself through it if you don't enjoy it?

This is the first time in a while ZP reviewed a game I actually played. All his criticisms are valid, but I still liked the game. Motion controls seriously need to go away, though.

Put your hands up everyone that was surprised. No one? Yeah I thought so.

trollpwner:

BiH-Kira:
SNIP

Same for you. Why put yourself through it if you don't enjoy it?

Because I actually enjoy Yahtzee. (90% of the times or even more often).

I just hate it when he completely forgets that he does have a bigger impact on the community and starts being a complete hypocrite.

He does point out to flaws of the games, he does have good points, but in some cases (like this one), he just sounds dumb (I know he isn't dumb, I say he SOUNDS). He says how all developers do nothing but make the same gray/brown shooter. Then there comes Nintendo, make a really nice game which isn't bad and he stomps it into ground.

Yes, people's tastes differ from each other, but this isn't a different taste. This is someone who intentionally ignores all the good parts of the game and tries to make it sound as bad as possible. Skyward Sword isn't maybe the best Zelda game. I'm not saying it's the best, nor the worst. All I'm saying is that he should be a critic and not a biased, Nintendo hating, 11yo CoD playing brat.

And it did not ruin my day like for the other guy.
I take nothing on the internet serious enough to have a bigger, negative impact on my day. A positive impact? Yes. Negative? Nope. I'm not gonna let something on the world wide web affect me in a negative way.

Me writing this isn't showing that I'm "hurt". It's just a discussion (some critic and some ranting because I have to much free time :P)

Well that's because you haven't played de CDI ones

Meh, I was expecting more.

I knew it would be really negative, but the only point I completly agree is the fact your ally is stupid Captain Obvious. Other than that it was weak. There's so many more things you could complain like the dialogue and unable to skip it. (I liked it, but for those who don't must be painful). Instead of complaining about motion controls which are great.

Yatzee will never read this, but is he using the right tv? I had to switch to my older tv because using our family's new plasma tv caused that input-to-output lag. Its not noticable when I use a pre-digital tv.

I would say for me the worst Zelda game is Phantom Hourglass because it was kind of boring. But yeah, Fi is kind of annoying.

Yikes. I hope he's just being Yatzee for this one. I just got that game and haven't tried it yet.

so he google searched »harp« twice already, but he still refuses to check if the side he thinks you're supposed to sit at is actually the right one...

Yatzee will never read this, but is he using the right tv? I had to switch to my older tv because using our family's new plasma tv caused that input-to-output lag. Its not noticable when I use a pre-digital tv.

(Also I'm surprised that he didn't mention the instructional video they make you watch when you first start the game)

I would say for me the worst Zelda game is Phantom Hourglass because it was kind of boring. But yeah, Fi is kind of annoying.

trollpwner:

It's clear you don't like Yahtzee and that you dislike what he says, so why watch him? I mean, surely, you'll just enjoy yourself more if you don't. Just ignore him.

Probably for a few reasons. 1) Despite his douchebaggery, there is that rare occasion where I have to agree he's made a good point. This is not one of them however. This is just plain biased hatred. I think he's made it clear for the past 2 years now that he sees Nintendo as some kind of plague on gaming. And 2) because people are dumb enough to listen to him instead of making their own decisions and he's clearly influenced the community in some form considering how many equally pretentious shallow gamers are now existing in the industry. Especially in the Sony fanbase. It's become less about trying to fix the industry and more about making it revolve soley around him.

If he could get away with it...I'm sure he would...but then fanboys would complain if he doesnt review super mario 3d land

Uh considering what Nintendo's fanbase is like, I'd say more of those fanboys would complain if he did review it.

Or if you're talking about the other companies' fanboys, well screw them. The less I talk about my justifications there, the better.

Kungfu_Teddybear:

I have a hard time seeing how that was hard to find.

Try being here the moment the update happens and not at least thirty minutes later.

Woodsey:

Big yellow box, front page, top left corner, same as its always been. In fact, the box is bigger than it was before. There has always been a delay of a few minutes of the link appearing elsewhere on the site before it does on the main page.

While this is true, the delay used to be like... a minute. It's gotten much, much worse.

Wow, I see lots of warnings, very strange.

I can agree with Yahtzee on this one. I like the game overall, but he inclusion of only motion controls is freakin' stupid. So stupid in fact, I have three friends who won't be playing this game because of them. Good job Nintendo. And it is the same game again and again (though this is only a problem if you have an aversion to a company or game franchise). I personally find the way they are using the same areas again smart and intelligent design. Metroid is famous for this and I see no problem with it.

Here is how my relationship works with Nintendo. Nintendo makes a series of smart intelligent decision (completely random luck according to Leonard Mlodinow, though he has convinced me), I defend them against haters for the good things they do, then they stab me in the face by doing something ridiculously stupid, like mandatory motion controls on their most popular franchise.

trollpwner:

Zachary Amaranth:
But Yahtzee, <game I like> doesn't NEED to change things up. Now go review <other popular game> and be sure to mock it for its sameness and lack of innovation!

Well played, good sir!

In all seriousness, does nobody ever spot it when they're doing this?

*checks any random game-related thread*

Nope, guess not!

Most people seem to think they're justified and their games really are special snowflakes. And Nintendo fans are kind of the worst example. At least, the diehards are.

Regarding Yahtzee specifically, I actually tend to enjoy it more when he picks on games I like. I don't play COD or Zelda, so while the videos amuse me they don't resonate quite as much.

But it seems the standard understanding of what Yahtzee's shtick is boils down to ripping on games I don't like and telling me the games I do like's shit don't stink and so YAHTZEE IS DOING IT WRONG!

Granted, I still take issue with reviews sometimes, but Zero Punctuation is heavily critical and usually negative and <game I like> isn't exempt.

Draconalis:

Kungfu_Teddybear:

I have a hard time seeing how that was hard to find.

Try being here the moment the update happens and not at least thirty minutes later.

Woodsey:

Big yellow box, front page, top left corner, same as its always been. In fact, the box is bigger than it was before. There has always been a delay of a few minutes of the link appearing elsewhere on the site before it does on the main page.

While this is true, the delay used to be like... a minute. It's gotten much, much worse.

Was on at about 17:45 for me, same time it always is.

One of the best videos of late.
I like it. It felt more inspired than most.

BiH-Kira:
He does point out to flaws of the games, he does have good points, but in some cases (like this one), he just sounds dumb (I know he isn't dumb, I say he SOUNDS). He says how all developers do nothing but make the same gray/brown shooter. Then there comes Nintendo, make a really nice game which isn't bad and he stomps it into ground.

First of all, as I have not and am not going to play the game (I don't have a Wii) I can't really comment on its merits. It looks fun and if I enjoyed previous 3D Zelda games it would be a buy.

I can safely say he isn't being hypocritical in this review because the rather formulaic execution of Zelda games that he complains about harshly is an equivalent to the gray/brown of a lot of recent shooters. In that it's stale for those who want more, not that interesting for those who are not a fan and doesn't really encourage anyone familiar with the series but disinterested in previous releases to pick it up.

The Zelda series' lack of substantial change seems to be Yahtzee's grey/brown in Skyward Sword and I at least thought he tackled it with the same intensity. It tells you that if you want more of old Link then it's a safe buy but if you want something more with a Zelda game then you may feel the same way as Yahtzee.

Baresark:
Wow, I see lots of warnings, very strange.

I can agree with Yahtzee on this one. I like the game overall, but he inclusion of only motion controls is freakin' stupid. So stupid in fact, I have three friends who won't be playing this game because of them. Good job Nintendo. And it is the same game again and again (though this is only a problem if you have an aversion to a company or game franchise). I personally find the way they are using the same areas again smart and intelligent design. Metroid is famous for this and I see no problem with it.

Here is how my relationship works with Nintendo. Nintendo makes a series of smart intelligent decision (completely random luck according to Leonard Mlodinow, though he has convinced me), I defend them against haters for the good things they do, then they stab me in the face by doing something ridiculously stupid, like mandatory motion controls on their most popular franchise.

Because HOW DARE YOU MAKE ME ACTUALLY HAVE TO MOVE ANY PART OF MY BODY OTHER THAN MY THUMBS. MOTION CONTROLS AUTOMATICALLY RUIN A GAME BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE MOVING MY LAZY ASS!

Kenkaku:
As a Zelda fan, I pretty much have to agree with Yahtzee that this is the worst Zelda game I've played thus far (not a bad game, just a huge letdown after waiting all this time): it just feels incredibly small, padded, and directionless in a lot of aspects.

But I do implore not just you Yahtzee, but everyone that has qualms with the franchise: don't criticize the series for being 'samey' and then talk about how it takes place in a different world, involve new gameplay mechanics, has new characters, and the like. One thing Yahtzee mentions in the review is that all the items are the same, but doesn't mention that two of the first three dungeons have entirely new items (I don't know about the rest of the game, because that's as far as I got so far).

I ask because, as a Zelda fan, I want to see the franchise grow and develop, but it's not going to happen if Nintendo or the series' biggest fans look at these complaints and then immediately write them off for being hypocritical. Saying each game is like a newer beta is probably the quickest way to get your complaints ignored.

The reason people criticize the series for feeling "samey" isn't that absolutely nothing changes. It's that, while the trappings of the story and the nature of the puzzles can vary, the actual underlying formula hasn't changed (at least in LttP-Spirit Tracks; I haven't played Skyward sword, so maybe it drastically reinvents this formula, I don't know). Link is always a person of little notoriety in the world who travels through an abbreviated version of a Hero's Journey story. He sets off on his main quest at the behest of Princess Zelda, who is placed in some sort of peril in the first or second act. His eventual goal is always to purge the land of some vaguely evil entity, who can only be accessed by going through dungeons full of arbitrary puzzles and defeating a boss creature at the end that provides something necessary to beating the bad guy.

But having a formula isn't necessarily bad for a series. After all, the Elder Scrolls have used their own formula for some time now (Prisoner inadvertently becomes instrumental to a larger conflict under the supervision of superiors who are oddly content with letting him wander the countryside for months at a time). What makes the series feel samey is the more specific, negative recurring elements. The dungeons almost never make objective sense; they're always laid out in a manner obviously designed to facilitate the Zelda formula, and it's rare for the designers to actually try to disguise this. The series refuses to use voice acting outside of grunts and screams, even though Nintendo has more money than god and could give every character in the game a Dostoyevsky novel's worth of dialogue for 1% of the game's budget. The series always gives Link a supporting character who always hangs around either stating the obvious or saying the things Link is too mute to say himself. It's things like these that makes the underlying formula of the series more obvious to people who have played multiple games. Ergo, the games feel "samey".

I love it when Yahtzee criticizes a game by pointing out gameplay flaws. That way no one can disagree and everyone can laugh at it. Even when its a game I enjoyed...

Lordofthesuplex:

I think it's better that if Yahtzee can't give the company credit where credit is due, then he should keep his opinion on it to himself and just not review Nintendo games anymore.

And I think this "credit where due" that you seem to think the company deserves is rather subjective, since obviously Yahtzee doesn't believe it is deserving of such credit.

Also... he is a critic. His job is to give his opinion. It's ludicrous to think he's going to keep it to himself just because some random person gets butt hurt when 'his' company gets the shit end of the stick.

In fact... I kind of want Yahtzee to review MORE Nintendo games just to spite you and your beliefs.

"I found a plot hole! NURSE!!"
Throat's still raw from that one. Laughed so long the laughing turned into an agonizing coughing fit.

Looks like I won't have to rent this one after all-- oh wait, sold my Wii years ago anyway. Never mind.

I was quite opposed to many of his criticisms. I played the game to 100% completion (except for the Hero Mode thing), and I liked it a lot. Sure, there were some enormous flaws. Fi, for example, put a huge contrast to a game that actually had some good puzzles. I would see a puzzle and get an epiphany and feel smart for realizing the way through, but then comes Fi and straight up gives me the answer. What's the point in puzzles if you don't need to think.

And the motion controls did act up a few times, like with The Imprisoned where you had to smash down on it's phallus like horn, but every time I swinged down the controller was thinking "Up? All right then, whatever you say". Almost made me lose the boss battle when I was doing Boss Rush and were on the last boss.

But the game still remained good, partly because there was a generally good number on sidequests as well in comparison to other games which were more for the people who wanted the neat bonus stuff, but mostly because it felt more immersive than most games and I felt really invested in the story and it's characters, whereas with say, Ocarina of Time, next to all characters felt like copies on copies on copies. And while the combat was a bit annoying at times, it was still as enjoyable as always and a nice refreshment from the usual "Press B to slice into pieces".

Lovely review and finally an instance in which I don't agree with Yahtzee again, that has been a while :)

Regarding the plot hole, when you open an area to explore, you clear the clouds above it...

When I saw Yahtzee slice the game in half with an axe, I knew I was going to go away hating his ignorant guts. Except I didn't, because he's still hilarious.
Some advice for Yahtzee: Go back to the Lanayru Mining Facility and use the Gust Bellows to blow an Arachna into a corner, and keep blowing. You will get your money's worth.

Mr Somewhere:
Regarding the plot hole, when you open an area to explore, you clear the clouds above it...

...but the clouds are never opened until you insert the tablets. So for the milennia before Link was born, there was no sunlight at all. Unless the cloud barrier wasn't very thick...

Draconalis:

And I think this "credit where due" that you seem to think the company deserves is rather subjective, since obviously Yahtzee doesn't believe it is deserving of such credit.

Also... he is a critic. His job is to give his opinion. It's ludicrous to think he's going to keep it to himself just because some random person gets butt hurt when 'his' company gets the shit end of the stick.

In fact... I kind of want Yahtzee to review MORE Nintendo games just to spite you and your beliefs.

Funny thing about the "opinions" excuse is that the door swings both ways. If I don't agree with it and think some of his complaints are bullshit, I have the right to call him out as such.

Yahtzee presents his opinion in a fashion that makes him look like an arrogant self-righteous elitist fanboy and if I wanted to hear someone like that bash the company, I'd go hit up DaPyroShow on YouTube. I at least expect Yahtzee to be fair and professional which he's forgotten how to do.

I also expect him to point out flaws that actually exist instead of blaming his inept ability to work a Wiimote on the game and console instead. I've been playing Wii games since Day 1 and I can tell you right now I can name only one time Yahtzee's complaints about the motion control not being responsive are legit. (And even then he horribly exaggerates it)

So yeah, don't give me this whole "he's a critic" bullshit. Critics have credibility. Yahtzee has little.

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