The Xbox 720

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A console should be able to run every game released for it. Just release it with enough power to last enough years. On the other hand we already have exchangable hard drives so maybe extraa RAM would be nice but that's it.

But we already have those, I'm typing this on one now. It's called a PC. Remember? Those things that were dying...

For this entire console generation (and perhaps for the last one as well, though with more reservation) I've felt that the time of the game console SHOULD be at an end. We're no longer at the time when a general-purpose computer was a monstrous $5000+ proposition and thus we needed purpose-built (though, still expensive - the NES was around $300+ depending on the package, while other early consoles had similarly expensive price tags) gaming machines in order to bring games to the public on an incredibly limited amount of power to be affordable.

As an advocate of open platforms (including open source) designed for the user, I've been disappointed in watching even our flexible computing convergence devices be divided into walled gardens and basically reformed for no purpose but to wrest control into the hands of corporate entities. Be it an iOS device that can't, without hacking, load programs from elsewhere than the AppStore and refuses to allow simply copy-paste access to media and codecs, or a game console where the only option to go online is to use "Their" service, the walls are higher than ever. Rather than increased technological freedom and convergence being used to better the experience, it has been locked down - look at the difficulty of legally accessing television and movie media online - because all the content producers want total control.

Modern consoles are more like PCs than ever (especially evident in the Xbox360) but with nearly all their additional "features" meant to take everything out of user hands and ensure that their games are basically held hostage on platforms designed for limitless monetization and control. Supporters will state that having a standardized platform is the benefit of consoles; not having to worry about differing hardware configurations and to a point this is correct. However, when console titles are patched and systems updated with frequency and PC titles have system requirements (as they've always had) the lines blur considerably. If the industry really wanted to, they could come up with a simple alphanumeric scale for hardware requirements.

I'm tired of having my experience dictated entirely by an industry that feels the best way to profit is to control and strangle every cent of the the market. Ever since gaming emerged from a niche population, the developers/producers realize that they no longer need to provide a high quality product at a reasonable price; why deal with those "hard to please" geeks when there are so many more who will beg with tongues outstretched for the next $15 map pack? On the backs of those that know or wish no different, the mainstream (especially Western) gaming industry has been run into the ground; corporate backers acting with impunity knowing that no matter the depravity and lack of respect, they can pretty much say "Fuck you, buy this shit and like it" and there will be enough buyers to make it profitable.

Consoles once served a purpose, but that purpose has been perverted into a way for the industry to control your living room. Tendrils are reaching out elsewhere, on the backs of Apple and the like, to try to ensure that all content is provided via a dumb terminal that is totally controlled by the manufacturer; everything must be on their terms. Your personal system, your freedom is the enemy. Its time to demand more.

I see a future with open platforms, where hardware requirements are the only things that define where a game can be played. Want to play the next Legend of Zelda game on your home-theater PC? Does it have at least "C-rank" hardware, and WiiU Controllers? Fine. Want to buy hosting for your own Gears of War match at a colocation centre, and browse to their servers? Done. You don't need to get on XboxLive if you don't want to - you can still play online with that title anywhere you choose, if you don't like XLive's ruleset or expense. Myriad beautiful JRPGs such as Valkyria Chronicles IV , built on open libraries that make it easy to play on Linux?

I've grown weary of the way gaming and consumer technology as a whole has developed; more boxes, more limits, more restrictions, more greed. Just a little over a decade ago we thought that with technological increases would come amazing leaps forward - even in entertainment. Alas, we've been held back by greed; bickering of corporate entities for which totally incompatible widget will reign and push their stock skyward. I don't have a lot of faith for the next generation lest we can rid ourselves of these poisons and move towards something better.

This seems to defeat the very point of console gaming, making it easy for developers to develop for the platform by not having to worry about lots of variables.

I have to say though, that the overlap of Windows 8 sounds amazing. Getting pretty much the entire XBOX library on the PC if that's somehow possible, would make my life. That means games like Tales of Vesperia, Mushihimesama, Beautiful Katamari, Deathsmiles, Cross Edge, Deathsmiles II, Tekken 6, without long load times!, DoDonPachi, Espgaluda II, Eternal Sonata, Street Fighter X Tekken, Tekken X Street Fighter, all on the PC! Without using emulators!

I would just faint from the overwhelming happiness, I would. If they could somehow someday just transplant the entire XBOX library over to Windows I would finally get so many of my favourite games on the PC which I never do. Or at least nothing more than a small portion of. I don't know who I saw suggest it, but the idea of Windows 8 being compatible with all XBOX titles would be revolutionary in terms of giving the PC awesome games.

Of course, if you create modular consoles with all the trappings of PC functionality, upgrades, patches, mice and other peripherals but proprietary.......... Wait, didn't Apple already do that?

Of course, there would be a stronger case for just buying/building a PC anyway. Plus perhaps we would see less broken games due to more extensive testing, and less lazy console ports. That would be nice.

ElPatron:

Smokescreen:
you don't have to deal with all the other shit that PC players seem to enjoy.

I don't enjoy tinkering with my PC, that's why I try to keep it in shape instead of just letting everyone clog it with unnecessary programs, not letting drivers get outdated, etc.

So, you have to do work to keep it up to date. Alright...

The saying that PCs need some kind of intensive care and are somehow more complex than consoles. They aren't.

Wait, what? Didn't you just say that you had to do stuff?

I actually raged harder at PS3s than computers.

Alright--but the point behind having a console is that this kind of event is the minority. Anecdotal data is meaningless and I don't mean to diminish the hassle you went through but for people who like consoles, the idea is: we don't have to put in the work that PC players have to do on their rig.

Look, some people enjoy the satisfaction of "building" something. It's like building a relationship.

Awesome. I'm going to go have sex while you get 60fps on Crysis 2. Who's better off?
/I'm razzing

Having a PC is like having a wife, having a console is like paying for prostitutes. (I just realised how creepy this sounds)

So you're comparing the kind of machine I like to the kind of women I like? That doesn't make you sound bad, and I'm sure the ladies reading this will totally understand.

I know this sounds insulting, but it isn't.

Then maybe you should've found another way to say it. There are nearly 200,000 words in the English language. Availing yourself of them, especially when communicating to strangers might help you be clearer and sound like less creepy.

I have a 360 and it's more of a last resort or just to blow off steam. But since my PC doesn't have issues, I keep having a moderate care for it and I may not play console for a whole month.

Um...good? But again, you keep having a moderate care for it whereas I don't do anything to my consoles.

Now, you know how much trouble being in a relationship is. If you have the right PC, it will go smoothly and with little input.

QUIT TALKING ABOUT MY PENIS

If you chose the wrong PC... oh boy, it ends up with a divorce.

So...you're single and searching? Ooo, sexy.

#edited to tone it down, because I was being too confrontational. Apologies

GonzoGamer:
But don't people get a console so they don't have to do all that.
If you're going to go through all that may as well play the PC and get mods and everything too.
They're also going to have to start posting system requirements on console games now too.

That's exactly what I was thinking, but if they make the parts as easy to change as the hard drive is for the 360 It won't be too bad. If they make it so u have to unscrew everything and fiddle with tiny chips and wires, no-one other than people who already do that stuff with their PC's is going to go for it.

It would have to be an ejectable solid part like the 360 hard-drive that holds both the GPU and CPU together for the mainstream market to bother with it.

Smokescreen:

ElPatron:

Smokescreen:
you don't have to deal with all the other shit that PC players seem to enjoy.

I don't enjoy tinkering with my PC, that's why I try to keep it in shape instead of just letting everyone clog it with unnecessary programs, not letting drivers get outdated, etc.

So, you have to do work to keep it up to date. Alright...

And I don't have to do it on consoles?

Ahahah, oh wow.

Smokescreen:

The saying that PCs need some kind of intensive care and are somehow more complex than consoles. They aren't.

Wait, what? Didn't you just say that you had to do stuff?

So checking for a new driver every few months and backing up important data, along with scheduled anti-virus searches is "intensive"?

Smokescreen:

I actually raged harder at PS3s than computers.

Alright--but the point behind having a console is that this kind of event is the minority. Anecdotal data is meaningless and I don't mean to diminish the hassle you went through but for people who like consoles, the idea is: we don't have to put in the work that PC players have to do on their rig.

Once I went to a friend's house to play CoD4 on his PS3, and it took him longer than it takes me to install MW2. Which is 12GB or so.

Updates, restarts, stuff not compatible with update, restarts, more stuff I don't even remember (cod4 isn't particularly recent), more updates (they took forever), and then finally play them game.

Not to mention the HDD installs. Consoles are just like computers, Sony themselves said it.

Smokescreen:

Look, some people enjoy the satisfaction of "building" something. It's like building a relationship.

Awesome. I'm going to go have sex while you get 60fps on Crysis 2. Who's better off?
/I'm razzing

Sorry for the hipster mode on, but Crysis 2 is an obvious let down compared to Crysis.

The CryENGINE 3 is weaker and Crysis will hog more resources.

So 60 fps in Crysis 2 is pretty lame, I can pull off 120fps with medium~high settings and physics in very high @ 1680x1050.

That being said, I don't even care much about graphics.

And I normally don't care about FPS unless I am playing Waržow or games with the Quake engine.

You know, screen refresh rates...

Smokescreen:

Having a PC is like having a wife, having a console is like paying for prostitutes. (I just realised how creepy this sounds)

So you're comparing the kind of machine I like to the kind of women I like? That doesn't make you sound bad, and I'm sure the ladies reading this will totally understand.

No, I did not compare gaming to women, I compared it to relationships.

I don't care about what the ladies think, honestly. But I think they would prefer me to treat them more like a PC than a console.

Smokescreen:

I know this sounds insulting, but it isn't.

Then maybe you should've found another way to say it. There are nearly 200,000 words in the English language. Availing yourself of them, especially when communicating to strangers might help you be clearer and sound like less creepy.

Well, I had to pick an activity nobody could argue against me, and said activity would need two ways of being achieved: the harder and the easier.

Guess what was the only thing I could find?

Plus, the 1,000,000th word might be "noob".

Smokescreen:

I have a 360 and it's more of a last resort or just to blow off steam. But since my PC doesn't have issues, I keep having a moderate care for it and I may not play console for a whole month.

Um...good? But again, you keep having a moderate care for it whereas I don't do anything to my consoles.

You mean you don't update their firmware? Lies.

I have had more hassle with my PSP than my xbox and PC together this month.

And I had a HDD "hick-up" that almost made me lose saved gamed on my 360.

Smokescreen:

Now, you know how much trouble being in a relationship is. If you have the right PC, it will go smoothly and with little input.

QUIT TALKING ABOUT MY PENIS

"it will go smoothly and with little input"
lol, pun not intended.

Smokescreen:
So...you're single and searching? Ooo, sexy.

Taken and not searching.

Doesn't this kind of negate the whole point of buying a console? You buy them for the stability, convenience and the fact that the software for it WILL work, right? If MS do this and Sony follow suit I may end up finally making the jump to PC and just keeping my 360 and PS3.

LilithSlave:
I have to say though, that the overlap of Windows 8 sounds amazing. Getting pretty much the entire XBOX library on the PC if that's somehow possible, would make my life.

It's only theoretically possible as PCs and 360s have CPUs with completely different architectures (x86/x86-64 and PowerPC respectively) which means there needs to be an emulation interface between a PC and software compiled for the 360... and almost all methods of emulation are resource intensive. The only way it would work without massive resource requirements would be if Microsoft developed a stable and reliable dynamic recompiling layer but even then it would still require a fairly hefty rig to play those games (just nowhere near as hefty as full emulation requires).

ElPatron:
supersnip
Taken and not searching.

I get it, you're PC and hipster. You don't seem to have much of a sense of humor and you have a point to prove. Great.

Anecdotal evidence is still not actual data. Your two stories != the way it is.

If there was one thing about the current generation of consoles that bugs me: updates to the software. Can't do anything about it, and occasionaly it bricks systems, and all of those things suck, suck, suck.

The point of a console is STILL that you have to do less work to keep it going than a PC gaming rig. As long as that is the endgame, then consoles will have greater reach than a PC, for the same reason that selling beer in a store will be more effective, in terms of reaching the masses, than brewing your own.

There's nothing wrong with loving PC gaming, or being someone who loves to build their own rig. I applaud those efforts, in the same way I appreciate the skill it takes to make anything. I have no issue with someone building their PC to do what they want. I don't want to do that, because I have other things I want to spend time on but I still love to play games.

What is your problem with me wanting to have my console?

I'm therefore always happy to read interviews where developers are quoted as saying they haven't reached the limits of what the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3 can do. I'm only just beginning to see how consoles are falling behind in the hardware department,

Well... as a PC gamer I have been seeing the limitations of the consoles for a few years now.. I've been seeing those limitations bleeding into the PC game market. Graphically consoles are keeping up, OK this is mostly due the the fact that multi-platform games are developed pretty much for the weakest platform and so pretty much look the same on each...

but within that you have to realise the a game on the xbox is hyper optimised and they have spent massive resources doing that and have had to make massive design compromises to ensure that the graphics are viable... and on the other hand the PC is only using a tiny fraction of its potential, if even half of the effort in optimisation went into the PC version of games then we would be seeing double or triple the graphical fidelity that we are currently being served up.

New consoles please, now.

As for modular consoles? that seems to miss the point to me, and anyway, the xbox360 has lasted how long with fixed hardware?... so long as they aim high enough spec wise for the new xbox there is no reason it shouldn't last just as long or longer. Besides, whats the difference between buying a new graphics card for your xbox and just buying the next xbox if you see what I mean... so long as you keep them backwards compatible then you could just keep on releasing a new xbox every 3 years if you really feel that upgrades are that important.

Sonic Doctor:

ranger19:

No thanks. As tempting as a console-based simplicity with pc-like upgrading might sound, Steam is good enough at that on PC. Leave my consoles be.

I think it would work, but only if the upgrades happened within a period of 5 years at least, no less.

I think that is a good generation period, considering how this generation is just a little past that. Also considering that I've only had my 360 for a little over two years(got the Wii first and then got my Elite about three years later because all my friends had one), and I've had some very good times with it, so much so it has felt like I've had the thing longer. I like the length of his generation so far, because of how long it has been is the reason I have been able to afford to experience two of this generations consoles, instead of one console like all the other generations I've lived during.

But I agree that it would be a bad idea to have an upgrade cycle like PCs do, it just isn't economical.

I know back when I tried to keep up with PC gaming, I was having to upgrade my PC at the most every two years, usually in less time. It was around about the time of this generation that I gave up on trying keep up with the PC upgrades.

I still find it crazy what relatively low priced PCs can't play. Christmas 2009, my dad got me a new PC(meaning latest tech of that PC year), just the PC and keyboard, no monitor, for 400 dollars. It can barely play high graphic games from 2006, heck the thing can barely play WoW. The same year, 2009, I previously around May, I bought my 360 Elite, for 435 dollars. My bundle came with one controller, a headset, Fable 2 and Halo 3, and three months of Xbox live. The thing has worked ever since and has played every game I bough for it. That is what makes consoles so convenient.

Since gaming is a major part of PCs, that each new PC model each year, the lowest base price model, should at least play PC games made in that year and ones that came before. It's rather dumb to have to pay at least twice the price of a console to get a PC that can play games at at least a console level. Yes I know it can be done cheaper if one takes the time to go on a scavenger hunt to find each random part to construct the PC, but a person should have to go to all that trouble to get a cheap gaming PC. Normal people just don't have the time to do such things.

I would say the only way upgradeable consoles would work, is that at the least every five years, all the console gamers have to do is pay at the most 150 dollars for a new upgrade.

I look at the Kinect as a kind of upgrade. That console upgrading should be handled.

First I just want to say - when I saw you had quoted an admittedly potentially inflammatory part of my post, I was worried that I had accidentally started a flame war. So thank you for responding in a well thought out way.

On to the response. I see what you're saying, and I suppose I can concede that if done properly, an upgradable console could circumvent a lot of my potential issues: if instead of getting a Kinect, we had gotten a new graphics card this gen or something, and it was priced properly, it might work. Microsoft would be tempted, of course, to overcharge, or have more frequent upgrades than that.

But let's say they don't, and instead of Kinect, we had gotten a new GPU or whatnot. Here's the problem: devs will always want to appear to the largest userbase. Part of the reason we haven't seen more Kinect games is that a dev knows there are millions of 360 owners without Kinect. A dev considering making a Kinect game knows he's instantly going to alienate the millions of non-Kinect owners.

Sure, the article adresses the idea of making different "graphics settings" but it points out that then the game isn't getting the personal polish/human touch. And this assumes devs will want to spend the money on using the higher graphics. I could imagine many games adding a Kinect-like gimmick (e.g. Mass Effect 3 voice commands) to pander to that audience, but I just don't see it being taken advantage of well enough.

So, to sum up: I could see it working in theory, but practically speaking I can't see it working out.

Smokescreen:

ElPatron:
supersnip
Taken and not searching.

I get it, you're PC and hipster.

>I disagree with someone's views
>let's call him hipster/hater/fanboy/compare him to hitler

It's the basic modus operandi around here.

Aren't hipsters all about simplicity, Apple products and so on? If I am a hipster, does that make PC gaming easier?

Wait, I can't be a hipster because computer gaming is usually cheaper than consoles, and you know hipsters always pay for the expensive stuff.

Can I call you a hipster too? Because you like consoles?

Let's just end this non-sense, I have nothing against your choice, but calling every PC gamer a masochist bigot is crossing the line.

Draconalis:

MASTACHIEFPWN:

So Xbox
Xbox 360 (Paradox enough)
And now 720? Who the hell is the "Creative mind" behind that.

360 + 360 = 720

Yes, I realise that, but look at the name.
It's bad enough they assimulated a box with a circle, but now they want a box and 2 circles?

See what is they just do away with all moving parts? That would free up space in the box for better gear right?

Seems silly to make "upgradeable" consoles. Isn't that what PCs already are? The strength of game consoles is their stability and uniformity. Knowing that a game will play the same system to system. Know that, aside from connection speed, everyone will have the same online experience.

It seems counterproductive to make one thing like the other when you've already got the other, know what I mean? Microsoft doesn't really need to merge their gaming consoles and their PC products. They've already got both, with well established, overlapping demographics. Put more PC into the Xbox and you risk losing a lot of your less tech savvy, your casual gamers, your older gamers, the young children.

While the idea of an upgradeable console is appealing, ultimately it's probably not only redundant, but would be more of a hassle, more expensive and less effective than your average gaming rig. Seems like a bad idea.

For all I care, MS can go ahead and do that because I personally wouldn't buy an Xbox360, 720 or otherwise. I'll be happy to eventually get the next Sony console as long as it takes what the PS3 does and simply improves it. That's enough to make me happy; better graphics, better processors, better media integration, etc.

Remember how much the ps3 was when it launched? I'd think 700-1000$. Also not alot of people would go that long mike for a system without a strong launch title,or rather wait for one. Another thing I love the 360 everything works smoothly nothings been hacked, (didn't lose credit card information). The achievement system is fun,I love my gamertag and I wouldn't think of abandoning all that for a newer system. Unless if they take all of that with them to the 720 and we get a bonuses from it. Being that that price is a big issue for me I'd like to hope that you could trade in a 360 and upgrade to a 720 to reduce the cost (and maybe get a fun little avatar award for it maybe a shirt that said 360/720) all and all we don't need a new console yet. Were not exactly bored with the 360 and it's functions. Funny isn't it Sony and nintendo had there issues but Microsoft had 2 consoles and no problems they had a fun "round" trip (hehehe) and still make smart decisions to this day such as, no Microsoft handheld device, and not being hacked. LONG LIVE XBOX!

ElPatron:

Smokescreen:

ElPatron:
supersnip
Taken and not searching.

I get it, you're PC and hipster.

>I disagree with someone's views
>let's call him hipster/hater/fanboy/compare him to hitler

Where did I do this? I did not call you a hater/fanboy/hiter: I did call you a hipster, and by this I mean:

You seem to promote an eliteist mentality and don't have a sense of humor.

It's the basic modus operandi around here.

If you say so: I don't have that experience. If you do, maybe you ought to look at how you relate to people here.

Aren't hipsters all about simplicity, Apple products and so on? If I am a hipster, does that make PC gaming easier?

Wait, I can't be a hipster because computer gaming is usually cheaper than consoles, and you know hipsters always pay for the expensive stuff.

Can I call you a hipster too? Because you like consoles?

This looks like a wall of nonsense, so I'm going to ignore it.

Let's just end this non-sense, I have nothing against your choice, but calling every PC gamer a masochist bigot is crossing the line.

You're right, it is! Now please show me the quote where I did that. Or rather, don't, because this doesn't seem to be a conversation, I'm going to check out of it. Adios!

They have no need to release a console. Period.

Seems to me they're jealous of Nintendo's shiny new toy and are trying to crank out a hunk of shit to compete.

I loved my original 'box, and I love my 360...because they're GAMING CONSOLES. I already own a laptop with superior hardware that runs everything smooth as a baby's bum. I by console games because...well...because that's what the damned thing is for. I guess I'll save myself $400+ bucks if they decide to force this abomination into the market.

Smokescreen:
You're right, it is! Now please show me the quote where I did that.

Smokescreen:
you don't have to deal with all the other shit that PC players seem to enjoy.

Enjoying "shit" = masochism

SaberSpellSword:

GonzoGamer:
But don't people get a console so they don't have to do all that.
If you're going to go through all that may as well play the PC and get mods and everything too.
They're also going to have to start posting system requirements on console games now too.

That's exactly what I was thinking, but if they make the parts as easy to change as the hard drive is for the 360 It won't be too bad. If they make it so u have to unscrew everything and fiddle with tiny chips and wires, no-one other than people who already do that stuff with their PC's is going to go for it.

It would have to be an ejectable solid part like the 360 hard-drive that holds both the GPU and CPU together for the mainstream market to bother with it.

I have no doubt that the parts will be easily interchangeable; mostly so they can make it a patented proprietary part that they can sell exclusively at an inflated price. But they'll be sure to make it clean & easy.
I'm more worried about how the consumer will shop for games. We already have to negotiate through drive space; make sure we have enough space to install the game and sometime that can be quite large. Console gamers don't want to have to sort through system requirements.
If there's one thing they should learn from the fall of the Playstation brand is that a console should be a cheap, simple, and utilitarian alternative to gaming on the PC.

Dastardly:

Kalezian:
but......there are boat-cars.

or car-boats.

sailing automobiles.....

And how many of them are mostly boat? All the ones that I've seen!

what if they are actually boats made to be like cars?

image

crazyarms33:

I agree, but I think there were only 2 reasons that the N64 survived that:
1.) It was a literal 30 second replacement. It took no time and small kids could do it with minimal effort.
2.) The Nintendo 64 was DOMINATING the market. The Play Station had yet to really "take off" so to speak so Nintendo really didn't stand to lose that much. Whereas today well I think people just couldn't be bothered to do all that. If I have to go through all that trouble to buy new components for my gaming console I would just buy a PC. I don't think I'm alone in this.

1 is correct. 2, I don't think is right. The N64 was trying to catch up since the start. It's launch was badly handled at too a high a price and the games weren't up to much for a while (apart from a few notable exceptions) - I know because I was a day one N64 owner. The playstation, on the other hand, had been out a long time already, and had significant sales before you could even get your hands on the nintendo console.

Personally, I think the main reason that the upgrade was popular was simply that it came free with Donkey Kong 64. Rare was synonymous with quality back then (what with goldeneye and banjo kazooie) so a large part of the N64 install base would have bought that game. I know I did - even though I thought it sucked after playing it for a few hours.

Don't want. Let people who have the time and can put in the effort have their Mods for their PC's and leave the console what it is; An easy to use piece of equipment that gets the job done. I want to play my games and not pay out the ass for them, that's why I have an Xbox 360. I don't need the best graphics, I don't want to spend more money on upgrading what is already a working product.

I know this isn't going to happen, but this also worries me into thinking that if it were to come out the would make games where you needed upgrade x to play it... essentially ruining the experience further. I know it is a long shot, but I had bad experiences as a child trying to play the roller coaster tycoon and Oregon trail Series, where they forced you to get certain cards to play them. PC peeps can keep that crap, just give me the console and the controler.

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