Escape to the Movies: The Dark Knight Rises

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MetalMagpie:

JoesshittyOs:
Bob. Stop it. I understand there is such thing as opinions, but when was the last time you reviewed a movie that managed to surpass your insane expectations?

The Avengers, Cabin in the Woods or Captain America?

Avengers, April release. Cabin in the Woods, April. Captain America, over a year ago. According to his reviews, at least half the movies that he's reviewed are monsterous piles of crap.

I find the criticisms of the structure and pacing extremely odd; despite its length Rises is easily the fastest moving of the trilogy, and the one with the strongest story arc. The construction of Rises' script has a definite edge over Dark Knight's, even if the end product isn't quite as good because it lacks...dead horse alert...a villain as flamboyant and entertaining as Heath Ledger's Joker. Dark Knight crescendos at the 90 minute mark and spends the second half of the film trying to regain the momentum it's lost. The material with Harvey and (especially) the ferries rigged to explode just isn't as compelling as the beginning with the Joker and the mob. Ledger pretty much carried the entire last hour of DK on his shoulders. That he pulled it off more than justified his Oscar win. Bane's plot, on the other hand, lends Rises a lot more narrative thrust and does a nice job of tying into plotlines established in Batman Begins in satisfying, if not unexpected, ways.

Off Topic;

I just want a Martian Manhunter film.

I thought the movie was really good overall but I have to say that the ending annoyed me.

I liked the third one more then the first one, not more then the second.

Dr. Dan Challis:
I find the criticisms of the structure and pacing extremely odd; despite its length Rises is easily the fastest moving of the trilogy, and the one with the strongest story arc. The construction of Rises' script has a definite edge over Dark Knight's, even if the end product isn't quite as good because it lacks...dead horse alert...a villain as flamboyant and entertaining as Heath Ledger's Joker. Dark Knight crescendos at the 90 minute mark and spends the second half of the film trying to regain the momentum it's lost. The material with Harvey and (especially) the ferries rigged to explode just isn't as compelling as the beginning with the Joker and the mob. Ledger pretty much carried the entire last hour of DK on his shoulders. That he pulled it off more than justified his Oscar win. Bane's plot, on the other hand, lends Rises a lot more narrative thrust and does a nice job of tying into plotlines established in Batman Begins in satisfying, if not unexpected, ways.

I agree. And it's not Nolan's job to satisfy all the desires of every Batman fan, it's his job to challenge us as viewers, if not to challenge his fellow filmmakers! I had tears in my eyes at the end, which rarely happens to me in a movie period, much less a superhero one.

And I'm going to tell you the truth: both times Batman fights Bane, it's fucking cool. There's nothing "underwhelming" about it as MovieBob said. I found the general tone of a lot of this review unappreciative and hypocritical. It seemed like he didn't appreciate Nolan's efforts to make a superhero movie that's actually important people beyond comic fans, and that will have an impact beyond its box-office draw. MovieBob also knocks this movie for not really being "about much of anything", even though he was fine with the much simpler message of The Avengers.

It is about something. It's about Batman saving Gotham, and that simplistic plot is done in the most heart-and-gut-wrenching manner that has ever been attempted by any filmmaker.

Just saw it today, and I'll say it's a good movie. Worth seeing once and that's it. What I don't like about this movie is what Nolan has been doing with the source material in general. Making it Batman in name, and nothing else really. The second movie pulled it off well with The Joker, but not much else.

My biggest issues with Bruce Wayne in the Nolan movies is that he isn't like Bruce Wayne in any accurate material at all. Nor is Batman for that matter. Nolan's Batman is -very- willing to kill someone, and that's not something Batman will do. In general Nolan's Batman is another view on him, it's just not one I agree with. It's somewhat as if someone gives you a chocolate icecream, and you unwrap it to find strawberry. Sure, strawberry is good but it's not quite chocolate.

Then again, some people like strawberry more than chocolate.

It was a good movie, I liked it, I don't agree with all that you said bob, but, what would the world be without different perspectives.

Let me start by saying I adore all three of these movies and Nolan's filmography in general. Now, I always considered 'Begins' the best Batman film of the previous two and TDK the best filmy-film (film student here, so it had more 'going on' artistically) of them. However while I still think TDK is best film (I agree that the political stuff is text in 'Rises' rather than subtext so TDK wins), I think this is the best Batman movie of the three.

The late in the game character reveal? Yes I called it in the opening reel but was it any less awesome seeing that character on-screen? Hell no. It was amazing. In fact during the big endgame/chase there was so much adrenaline going through my body I was physically shaking, not even a joke as my friend who saw it with me can attest to.

Yes there were pacing issues, it really did sag in the middle, but I can overlook them becasue it was the most satisfying Batman movie to date. Not the most satisfying film but the most satisfying Batman film. And the end reveal that Bob says ruins it, I sort of saw it coming seeing as the film stuck far closer than I expected to a certain of the more famous graphic novels.

Now in saying all that I need to see it again to properly judge it because the fanboy took over on that first viewing.

But yes the Kingdom Come line-drop was magnificent

It was good not great.

A lot of the film as bob said just wasn't structured well. The main motivation for the whole thing was supposed to be that Gotham while crimeless had become a cesspool of greed and corruption. This was made very clear in the post-production releases, but you really don't get that feeling in the movie at all. It just plain seems like a great place to live. If you haven't seen the movie then you wouldn't understand why this is so important. Also if you're expecting the cliffhanger/end of batman thing that been suggested around the internet then forget it doesn't happen.

Lastly the whole rising thing? Lame... Mild spoiler(I've been in worse rehab clinics than that.)

MovieBob:
The Dark Knight Rises

MovieBob gives us a spoiler-free review of The Dark Knight Rises.

Watch Video

So I've got to ask, what is the line from Kingdom Come that they lifted?

I just got back from seeing it.

I.Fucking.Loved.It.

I seriously believed it topped the Dark Knight. It's that good.

Edit: What's with all the people on first page going "called it!" Most of them haven't seen the film. Why so desperate to try and be right?

Cheesebob:
What other A list non-ridiculous Batman villians could you have instead of 'Bane' though?

Black Mask, The Penguin, The Riddler, Hush, KGBeast, Maxie Zeus, Hugo Strange, The Ventriloquist, Deadshot and (imagine this done in a Hannibal Lecter style...) Calender Man.

If you can do the Scarecrow and the Joker you can do any of the above, as they are no more no less outlandish than any of them.

Aaand he chose a one note plot device.

lead sharp:

Cheesebob:
What other A list non-ridiculous Batman villians could you have instead of 'Bane' though?

Black Mask, The Riddler, Hush, Hugo Strange.

If you can do the Scarecrow and the Joker you can do any of the above, as they are no more no less outlandish than any of them.

Aaand he chose a one note plot device.

Changed it to the ones that might've actually been plausible in Nolan's setting.

I could not disagree more with Movie Bob on this one. Man. It's the best in the entire trilogy to me.

I was really hoping MovieBob would talk about the ending! Which was, in my opinion, the best part of the whole movie! I found the pacing to be wicked slow at times which ruined much of the good stuff. Holy Crap Ann Hathaway this was definitely your best performance! All in all it was a fun action packed movie that I'm glad I saw but wont be heartbroken if I never see it again. However the ending and Joseph Gordon-Levitt, omg wow!!! I want to see Nightwing, this has to happen now! I always loved Nightwing and this would be such a dream to see him on the screen especially as Joseph Gordon-Levitt! And I honestly think this may be their plan. As I watched the movie I couldn't help but wonder why they would want to end such a huge money maker but I think this is why! Look Out Gotham their is a new Hero in town!!!

Saw it last night, and I reckon it's the best damn movie I've seen all year. It just felt so epic and was so well executed! Avengers was great, but it was more just bombastic spectacle. This was a movie that felt so much more meaty to me. XD It was fantastic IMO.

Does the film feature the same kind of latent racism as Begins, I wonder? Considering the implied connection with the League of Shadows, I mean.

Lethos:
I just got back from seeing it.

I.Fucking.Loved.It.

I seriously believed it topped the Dark Knight. It's that good.

Edit: What's with all the people on first page going "called it!" Most of them haven't seen the film. Why so desperate to try and be right?

People who would follow Bob off a bridge.

I'm just gonna call bullshit on this. I really enjoyed the movie. I didn't think it had terrible pacing issues like MovieBob thought it did and the fact that it had two "rising" points didn't detract from it at all. Batman thought he was hot shit who could just get back into the game but then got his ass beat and proceeded to truly "Rise" up. Simple. I don't know, I thought the movie worked, and I thought it worked really well.

Lethos:
I just got back from seeing it.

I.Fucking.Loved.It.

I seriously believed it topped the Dark Knight. It's that good.

Edit: What's with all the people on first page going "called it!" Most of them haven't seen the film. Why so desperate to try and be right?

This is pretty much my opinion on it. I agree with you.

Just got back from seeing it. While I think Bob was a little heavy handed with the negative vibe, he mainly nailed it. It's a great movie. Easily the number two of the summer behind Avengers. But it's quite a way behind, and part of the reason stems from the very fact of Avengers existence.

Part of the problem is that as Bob noted, this third movie starts to give long time Batman fans a little bit of service. Some actual comic nods start to creep in. Plus the entire movie is culled by mashing together a few of the BIG 80's and 90's massive Batman crossover tales. No really this movie is The Dark Knight Returns + Knightfall + No Mans Land all mashed together. Really! That's the huge secret script that is so being kept under wraps. They read these three graphic novels and made a movie from them. They actually did a good job of it. Better than most comic to movie "adaptions" (see Fantastic Four 2). But it still leaves a weird taste in the viewers mouth for a few reasons.

If we had not seen Avengers first, this might have been a much better received movie. Like how the X-Men movies were great until we saw Spiderman 1 and 2. Dark Knight Rises is both a joy and a horror because it finally starts to sprinkle some fleeting signs of the Batman mythos into the movies. We start to get little nods to who characters may be. Connected backstories, etc. Just little breadcrumbs. But that's all they are is fleeting breadcrumbs. They are the best moments in the movie but they have no real payout. Then we look at Avengers. They took the comic book world that we comic fans loved, all of it whole hog. Instead of breadcrumbs they gave us the whole loaf, and made a giant sandwich out of it first for us. They dove in with the costumes and the aliens and the gods. All of it. And they shoved it in front of the world, and it was wonderful. Instead over here we get stuff like a one off line from "Officer Blake" at the end. We can feel the classic "Bat family" and overall Batman cast creeping towards familiar places. Really really cool places. But they don't actually bring us there. Two years ago this would have been one of the years best movies. But now? We have seen what can be done when you don't try and "adultify" a comic book property and make it darker and more serious, and instead embrace the actual property full bore. This doesn't do that. It doesn't do that in oh so many little ways.

Part of the weird thing about the movie is the supporting cast is just so much more interesting than either the main hero or the villains. Commissioner Gordon and Third Rock from the Cop boy were by far the best things on screen. Surpassed only by Anne Hathaway. Bane was entertaining but kinda shallow and pointless. I found myself sitting in the theater and thinking how much better this would have been if they had just taken all of his dialogue and used it to do a Lady Shiva story instead. The actual Bruce Wayne story arc is sorta meh. It starts out interesting and goes downhill to the point where at one point you think they accidentally slipped in a real from the first half of Iron Man, the plot and setting was so horribly similar.

Oh and remember how I said the story mashed together all of those 80's and 90's graphics novels? While it made for a decent Batman story for this movie. The story told was in no way greater than the sum of it's parts. And that is a problem. Because this movie has probably poisoned the well for us to ever see a real "Frank Miller Dark Knight Returns" movie to be made. Just as Promethius knocked out any hope of us seeing a movie adaption of "At the Mountains of Madness". In the long run it sort of sucks for that.

Overall go see it. It's the best thing in theaters right now. It is a good Batman story. It's certainly better than Amazing Spiderman or Prometheus. It's just not as good as Dark Knight or Avengers.

Having just seen it, I will say that it's not as good as "The Dark Knight", but it is still very good. Not as good as Inception either, but still good. I did get the sense, that Movie Bob got, that the film really felt like it should have been split into two parts. Even though it was quite long, it felt a bit rushed and the final physical fight was a bit underwhelming.

Still, worth the money I paid. Nolan might have failed to make the third film the best, but he succeeded in making a pretty great, entertaining film.

I actually think this was the best of the three. Okay Bane isn't great compared to The Joker, but then even if they had used the Riddler--or any other villain--instead they still wouldn't be better than The Joker. Where it gets its edge, in my opinion, is the scale and the way it comes full circle with the first movie in a way I won't spoil.

That said I do agree with a lot of the problems that Bob brings up, because they are definitely there. Who knows though, maybe I think this is the best of the three because I didn't get hyped for this as much as other people. >.>

Anne Hathaway as cat woman is just something I really can't get over. She looks just so...not catwomany. She looks so thin and pale and non-threatening; you just know that any punch from her is gonna be like a kitten headbump. There's just something about her face that makes me laugh everytime she tries to act tough or dangerous.

That said, they really did blow their load with the Joker in the second one. This one just feels like they're trying to disguise the fact that they didn't really have anywhere to go. I mean, after the joker, the most iconic, arguably best villain in the batman mythos, anything less is gonna be a let down. It would be like if Luke met and killed the Emperor in the second movie and then spent the third movie just fighting stormtroopers.

Personally, I don't even really consider this a trilogy. I just look at The Dark Knight as it's own, self contained interpretation of batman, and these other two are just...other batman movies.

If it's not as good as The Avengers, then we're in trouble! I finally got round to seeing The Avengers and while it's not offensive in the way a Michael Bay movie is, it was a pile of rubbish. I honestly don't see what anyone liked about it, it was a mess of a movie. My expectations are significantly lowered for Dark Knight Rises!

I have read Kingdom Come and have no idea what he is talking about. Can somebody answer this?

EDIT: Its okay, I went through Kingdom Come and found it. Its the "oh, so that's what that feels like..." line.

Monty McDougal:
So what is the quote from Kingdom Come?

ZombieHunter:
What was the Kingdom Come quote that Bob referred to? I missed that.

"So, that's what that feels like."

Except replace Superman with Selina Kyle.

I think The Dark Knight Rises was better than Avengers. A lot better. Avengers were a steady quip stream sustaining an inane plot, whereas Batman managed to be fascinating across many dimensions. It was still imperfect: the Batman's mid-movie journey was poorly thought out and motivated, Bane's potential as an interesting villain was left untapped, and the movie did have some minor pacing problems. Yet, the good outweighs the bad by a large margin.

What line was it from Kingdom Come?

Edit: Nvm it was answered

That 'Batman-Jesus' 'second coming' image is a meme waiting to happen if I ever saw one. Awesome, moviebob!

Farther than stars:
We all knew it was impossible for it to live up to expectations. Maybe if they'd used the Riddler and Catwoman as antagonists... but Bane just doesn't come off as a top-tier Batman villain. Bottom line, they were never going to top Heath Ledger as the Joker.

Wow. I would love a Riddler villain film.

I realize he "was" kinda before, but I mean a more serious Riddler.

Maybe not Arkham City style but the later graphic novels for sure.

so so so terribly disappointed @_@

JoesshittyOs:

MetalMagpie:

JoesshittyOs:
Bob. Stop it. I understand there is such thing as opinions, but when was the last time you reviewed a movie that managed to surpass your insane expectations?

The Avengers, Cabin in the Woods or Captain America?

Avengers, April release. Cabin in the Woods, April. Captain America, over a year ago. According to his reviews, at least half the movies that he's reviewed are monsterous piles of crap.

I think that's what makes him a critic. If he was completely blown away by half the films he saw, he wouldn't have much to talk about. ;)

Ramzal:
Nolan's Batman is -very- willing to kill someone, and that's not something Batman will do.

Hang on what...

Did you see Batman Begins? He tried his hardest NOT to kill anyone in that film, it's why he didn't join the League of Shadows and why the conflict of the film happened...because Batman couldn't take a life.

It's also why the big conflict in TDK happens - he's unwilling just to kill Joker. And there's that scene at the end in the building where he's taking down all the thugs and SWAT Officers WITHOUT killing them. The big thing at the end is that the Joker won because Batman BROKE his one rule to save Gordon's kid from Two-face.

It's also why he didn't just snipe Bane or something in this last one - because he doesn't kill, Catwoman even says something about this and Batman makes a point of kicking her gun away from her.

It's a lot better than Burton's stupid version of Batman who just exploded and killed bad guys like nobodies business.

I don't think you've actually watched the films.

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