The Big Picture: The Boot, Part Two

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After the wildly unpredictable success of the My Little Pony reboot, it's a wonder there's not a surge of kids-show reboots going on right now. Of course, I don't think anyone expects that particular bolt of lightning to strike twice.

The Harry Potter movies are nothing more than taking precisely one thing from every chapter in the books and rushing through scene after scene, dialog after dialog. While for the most part the movies pull them off, I think everyone agree that all sense of pacing and suspense and was thrown out the fucking window and nobody other than the main characters had any time to get some decent development.

They tried to tell the story of a entire YEARS in 2 hour movies, which was foolishness considering the length and content in the books. What pisses me off the most about the Harry Potter movies is that a lot of time is wasted on absolutely trivial things which they could've spent covering more significant events from the book.

Before someone brings up Lord Of the Rings, quite a lot of things had to be dropped from the books as well but more importantly Peter Jackson already had all 3 books sitting in front of him, ready to make the important decisions of what to keep and what to throw and create a COMPLETE package. Also Jackson wasn't afraid of making the movies 3 hours+ long (the directors cuts for the 3rd movie is 4 HOURS), he knew the meaning of meaningful pacing, suspend and dialog.

When you read a Harry Potter book, you go on a year-long journey that actually FEELS like a year and that the characters have made some significant progress and grown by the end, like they truly achieved something after a year of hard work. But the movies feel like goddamn 20 minute TV shows, the intros and endings stretched, the entire middle gutted of content, and the sole point of the movie being "how to make the end of it exiting enough to make people want to come back for the next one"? After the first and second movies I had a clear sense that things would only go downhill as the books got thicker and complex, more and more content would be skimped and the directors would have to wipe out some pretty monumental moments. E.g. from the 4th movie, the entire Quidditch World Cup match was skipped. OMFG I was pissed, that was the last HP movie I paid to watch in cinema.

Call me a novel elitist but the Harry Potter movies do NOT do justice to the source material.

When said source material is frequently a horrible mess of pointless detail and wonky characterisation, that may well be a point in favour of the films. The films had to abide by restrictions that Rowling simply chose to ignore from Goblet of Fire onwards: namely, they had editors looking over the script and trying desperately to get rid of unnecessary bloat. I wouldn't talk them down too much.

I'd like to see reboot of... Reboot.

I would really love to see a reboot of Gargoyles. This was one series I loved to watch in the nineties!
Babylon 5 could get a touch up with the CGI. Kind of what George Lucas did with the original Star Wars Trilogy. But without the inclusion of 'funny' aliens.

Scarim Coral:
Let see-

5. No opinion since I had never watched the show.

4. I'm infferent toward a reboot on Harry Potter. I would rather see the entire nine books being done as a TV series like Game of Throne. That way it could be somewhat more accurate to the books (I know that's not the case since I know the GOT tv series had made some changes compared to the books).

3 HELL YES!!! I love Gargoyles! If Disney were smart about it, they would reboot it but in saying it is a long shot compared to their recent actions they did with their shows (cancelling Avengers: Earth Mightest Superheroes while Ultimate Spiderman get another season).

2. Same as 5.

1. Indifferent since I've stop watching The Simspon several years ago. Wheather or not I would watched the reboot remain to be seem.

I could pay pal you the money to rent monster squad if you need it? So yes LOL please jesus yes I love this idea.
Why a reboot? Why not just focus on a new set of kids and not Harry? I mean the idea has merit.
Never cared about this serious despite friends trying to pimp it for all it was worth, but hay I don't have to like everything.
Loved this show, so yeah lol.
....Maybe i just seen to much of the simpsons.

To my personal shame I have never seen "Babylon V". True, I have seen an episode here and there, but that is like saying you have had a piece of cake, when you have only had a drop of frosting.

It is on my too buy list, but that list is, sadly, too long.

I'm guessing Sapphire and Steel never really made it in the States. Inter-dimensional operatives loosely based on the periodic table protecting the universe from the incursions and predations of Time itself. MiB, but with more thought and less action.

Not a bad list, and I can honestly see a streamlined Harry Potter getting me into the series.

I'd love to see reboots of:

The Mask: but more in tone with the comic series, being more akin to Nightmare on Elm Street then the pseudo family friendly films we got.

Pokemon TV series: I know this will never, ever, EVER happen what with Nintendo being Nintendo. But I'd love to see the Pokemon universe reinterpreted in a somewhat more mature light, possibly even addressing some of the more questionable aspect of the world (i.e. the fact that 90% of the worlds economy seems to be based around mainstream legalized cock fighting. I want a more mature reboot not a grim and gritty.

Spawn: for me Spawn has always had a great premise (to me at least) but was hampered by the fact that the various incarnation had wildly different views on the story.... that and McFarland is a soulless sell the likes of which can only be rival by Lucas.

BloodRayen: For the BR video games I could see it work in one of two ways 1st: done as a series anime inspired "dramatic" series (Castlevania) or the 2nd) as exploitation film style homage (House of the Dead Overkill). But one firm rule Boll is not allowed anywhere near this rebooted series.

The problem with Babylon 5 was the fact it was always compared to Deep Space Nine. Warner Brothers weren't throwing enough money at it whilst DS9 was kept healthy by Paramount. The place that really shows is the CGI, DS9 secured Foundation Imaging for their effects after they were struck off by B5. The expertise and the extra funding made the battles in DS9's later seasons really shine.

I don't know really, if B5 got a reboot it would need new characters and make it set sometime after the final series so it can make new story lines and characters.

Some good points Moviebob, but...

You kinda missed the mark with Harry Potter, the movies cut a crapload of lore from the books and trying to condence everything into 'Heroes Journey' style trilogy will practically kill the story, you might as well use a new IP. It could be done as Game of Thrones style series.

While the Bablyon 5 CGI could really really use an upgrade, trying to retell the story is going to be difficult at best. That and you mentioned a 'Star Trek' style reboot, after you've flayed JJ Abrams alive.

I doubt J.K. Rowling would allow for a HP reboot in her lifetime.

Captcha: later gator

I WOULD like to see a Bartman or Pieman series....

I absolutely will sit down and watch every Harry Potter movie start to finish with you Bob. You tell me when and bring the beer. I'll bring my entire deluxe edition DVDs with bonus features collection.

Better list than 10-6 (of which I only saw one even remotely worth considering.

First off, I am glad to see that I am not the only one who actually shows some respect to the Simpsons. I sometimes wonder if I do purely out of my own nostalgia and given Bob supports it unfortunately it makes a stronger case that I do. However as a reboot, maybe, but I dont see it being likely. As for its end It seems that the greatest likelihood is that its end is at hand. Once the completion of the 25th season It seems like it will finally be put to rest as it looked like fox only renewed it specifically to get to the quarter century mark.

Babylon 5, I am inclined to agree. While most of it does hold up right now we are in a MASSIVE sci fi drought. Battlestar franchise has wilted and dried to a husk, Starwars has essentially been forever ruined, Stargate tried its own reboot and actually made a better product but so alienated the fanbase it is essentially credited for killing the franchise. Then, It has been almost a decade since there was a TV centric incarnation of star trek that is its foundational roots, And the Abrahms films are little more than a shimmery regurgitation. The franchise needs to go into its true future in its predominant timeline, and make the same sort of historical jump made from ToS to TNG. (killing tangent here) Look at some of the sci fi options rolling around right now. Its an incredibly desolate landscape with fantasy taking a more dominant role at the moment with most notable occurrences being more in film than television. A Babylon 5 reboot could help revitalize this as a more enduring franchise, while trying to fill the void that new IPs like Defiance have no hope to fill. However there is a certain degree of logic here that might make the most sense for this franchise to jump from TV to film for such a reboot, and if THAT can generate interest, then begin working on ideas for a full fledged tv reboot.

Gargoyles I fully agree NEEDs a full fledged reboot, but the problem is that there is absolutely no purpose to do so with Disney still in control of it. For its time it was exceptionally dark and that was in MAJOR part to Batman: TAS as its prime competitor. But if Disney were to revisit the content that darkness would ONLY be diminished thus negating much of the point. If a truly mature incarnation could exist, that would be the best thing for that franchise, but its abundantly clear Disney would not dare go that far.

Harry Potter, I do disagree with its need or even the potential benefit. Essentially the whole purpose behind the desire could be accomplished by Warner Brothers specifically doing a "Edited for TV" Streamlined version that whittles each film down to its core elements at around 45 min to 1 hour and making it ideal for things like Holiday weekend viewings for TV. 17.5 hours down to a more manageable 8 hours could accomplish ones desire for "one sitting"

Personally I do not fear reboots or retellings if they are done logically and well. They can serve logical function especially in their proper role as more filler material to help support the more important original IPs.(such as in television programming blocks)

Other things in need of a do over.

Batman Beyond - Too much potential ended up squandered

Starship Troopers - The original was phenominal for its time but the people controlling the property seem like they are bent on gutting the franchise in the worst possible way (Although Invasion was a mild bright spot)
Space: Above and beyond which might have been a knock off of SST, but at the same time it doesnt have the same baggage with its pedigree.

Star Trek: Tv Series - As mentioned above

Krull - Great universe that never got anywhere near enough exploration

Edit: Have a few others eluding me atm, May update later.

A reboot equivalent for Disco Stu in the Simpsons reboot? Dubstep Dew. Has to be.

1st half i agreed with, this 2nd half not so much.

Was it just me or was anyone else thinking of a reboot of Reboot? Especially with the prevalence of the internet in our culture there could be some good ideas in there and with CGI stuff on TV getting better, why not?

...Lexington was gay!? I am sure I am not the only one disturbed by this. Not because I have anything against gay people, but I am not entierly sure what exactly a 'gay gargoyle' entails. ...Does that mean he likes human-men in the way Goliath clearly likes human women? See, this just gets weirder the more you think about it.

You've got some personal bias with an appetite for flamebait bob with some of your choices

Fixed that for you, you're welcome.

Now that Bob has released the second half of his reboot list, here's my two cents:

Monster Squad: I can totally see a reboot for this film, given Hollywood's obsession with remaking anything that's over 10 years old (well, not limiting anything over the 10 year mark, but you catch my drift).

Harry Potter: No. No. NO. The series is still fairly young, given the first book was released in 1997, following by the first film adaption in 2001. Yes, I know it's over 10 years old, but I still feel giving HP a remake/reboot would be uncalled for; I'd say a stand alone TV series or mini-series would be better as it would add to the mythos instead of an all out remake/reboot.

Gargoyles: I remember watching this show growing up. It had the same tone and direction as Batman: The Animated Series (which I was more of a fan than Gargoyles at the time). So would a reboot/remake be good? I'd say bring it on, especially since I am older now and would appreciate this series a lot more than I did as a kid.

Babylon 5: I sorta remember this show being on the Sci-Fi channel years ago. Never really got into it so I'm indifferent when it comes to seeing this getting a remake/reboot.

The Simpsons: Honestly...YES! A thousand times YES! I know the show still has it's fans, but you can only race a horse for so long before age catches up to him. From what I know, there have been several attempts to try and do spin-off shows with the various characters over the years and they never got green lit (one was a Krusty the Clown show and the other was for the character Lionel Hutz that the late Phil Hartman was going to portray). A reboot would diffidently help The Simpsons, especially if it focuses on one or several of the side characters that have grown in popularity over the years.

Babylon 5 and Gargoyles I wouldn't mind. The rest, I never cared for, never saw, or, in the case of Harry Potter and the Simpsons, don't want in the slightest. I'd sooner watch all the Harry Potter movies than all 6 Star Wars movies, though I find it hilariously ironic that you're harping on how the former gets repetitive while ignoring that the latter is as formulaic as Shakespeare's comedies.

Oh, and for those wondering, Avengers > LOTR > Harry Potter > Star Wars > Star Trek, for AAA nerd movie marathons.

Yeah, I would watch the entirety of Harry Potter.

I said, I would love to.


Oh, I'm a nobody now.

That pretentious "anybody, nobody?" shtick only works when it's not a debated idea. In fact, there are many Potter get togethers. I'd wager enough to eclipse the star wars viewing parties by now. At the very least the ones that still show Episode 1.

Anything that gives me more babylon 5 - the best TV show ever made - is a good idea.

Babylon 5!!!! I miss that show like a frikkin' heart-ache man and it could be sooo easily picked up even with a brand new cast. After all, Babylon 5 was all about meeting new people :). Massive potential there and a story with plenty of room, awesome it made your #2 beneath your all-star favorite.

You know what science fiction TV series really needs a reboot? Blake's 7. You know, the one that was actually well-written but had every episode filmed in a gravel pit because the BBC doesn't have money? The one that did the whole "nuanced characters portrayed in shades of grey" a full decade before any of the American shows that get credited with the same decisions were even greenlit? The one that Firefly basically ripped off?

Oh wait, you've probably never seen it. What a pity.

Who would play Avon? Also, while there were some awesome episodes with the final one being amazing, there were some...less than awesome ones as well. I think a reboot would be great actually. As long as the English sensibilities were kept intact.

On the video, I loathe the Goonies so anything remotely related to it I never want to see the light of day.

Yeah, I would watch the entirety of Harry Potter.

I said, I would love to.


Oh, I'm a nobody now.

That pretentious "anybody, nobody?" shtick only works when it's not a debated idea. In fact, there are many Potter get togethers. I'd wager enough to eclipse the star wars viewing parties by now. At the very least the ones that still show Episode 1.

Yeah, I did a Harry Potter marathon just a few months ago. Star Wars? Maybe the original trilogy years ago. I think Bob is making the mistake of his own generation and experience extrapolated to everyone.

I like all your choices except The Simpsons. A couple of my own personal favorites from way back were the computer generated starship troopers show, dinoriders.

I agree about most of them, except Harry Potter. As people have said, I feel like it would do better as a TV series or a series of prequels or sequels. Considering how much of a cultural juggernaut that Harry Potter is, rebooting it would probably be like redoing A New Hope at this point. Guaranteed to have endless comparisons to the original and also guaranteed to please nobody.

You know what science fiction TV series really needs a reboot? Blake's 7. You know, the one that was actually well-written but had every episode filmed in a gravel pit because the BBC doesn't have money? The one that did the whole "nuanced characters portrayed in shades of grey" a full decade before any of the American shows that get credited with the same decisions were even greenlit? The one that Firefly basically ripped off?

Oh wait, you've probably never seen it. What a pity.

I'd like to be able to watch blakes 7 but cheap sci fi just doesn't do it for me. The lowest budget sci fi i can do is the first 2 series of red dwarf, and thats more because its a sitcom that happens to be in space and have sci fi elements than pure sci fi.

I just found something slightly relevant to Monster Squad. SLIGHTLY

WARNING: you may be frozen in place for a few minutes after it is over.

I did say slightly right?

Wow. I haven't disagreed with Bob this much since his Sucker Punch episodes.

Harry Potter would be a collossal waste of time and money. The last movie came out less than two years ago and he wants to talk about a reboot? Good grief... Isn't it supposed to be a bad thing that Hollywood keeps rehashing the same stuff over and over again rather than coming up with some actual new ideas?

No. Potter needs to lie dormant for at least twenty years before they even think about this. If WB want to make more money out of more movies let them pester JK Rowling to write a sequel or a spin-off.

Hmmm, well I'm generally anti-Reboot but I must say I kind of agree on B5 though I think "remake" would be a better path for them to follow really. While some people will cry heresy, B5 suffered from having some big ideas at play, that went beyond the writing abillity of JMS and the show suffered for it, in a way that goes beyond him simply being concerned about what plot lines could continue season to season due to the show's future being in constant doubt. Not to mention the fact that it had more problems than just some dodgy CGI which has aged paticularly badly today, especially to begin with, very few members of the cast could act, and some of them like Claudia Christian never seemed to quite get the knack for that acting thing even years into the series, of course I in part blame the writers for that as well as it seemed to me that they would continually step on characterization whenever it was conveinent despite the pretensions of an ongoing storyline. Now that we pretty much know the entire story of Babylon 5, what's supposed to happen, etc... planning out the entire script from episode 1 to re-tread the entire thing at a higher quality could work.... as far as rebooting it goes... I figure there is still no point because I feel that if your going to do away with enough to make a "reboot" you might as well just make an entirely new space opera TV series set on a space station from scratch without trying to attach a fairly well known name to it.

I'll also be kind of blunt in saying that making a more condensed version of "Harry Potter" would defeat the purpose as it's the depth, world building, and casual minutae that make it what it is, and cause it to stand out from other works of childrens fantasy. You remove all of that and "keep to the point" and it's not "Harry Potter" anymore, it just becomes another story about a magical kid with a destiny fighting some evil thing. It sounds silly, but the depth is why something this childish even has adults wanting to go to theme parts to immerse themselves in the world and it's details.

As far as "Gargoyles" goes, I heard a slightly differant tale of it's demise. Apparently it was conceived at a time when it was believed that there would be a niche for prime time cartoons aimed at an older audience, the same basic logic that spawned the beginnings of the "Batman" animated series which also failed. "Gargoyles" was late to a market that never materialized, got restructured a bit for "teens" and wound up having a pretty strong start, with strong writing, and a cast of then-known actors still flying fairly high on their TNG fame (Jonathan Frake & Marina Sirtis) doing voices. It's continuation was conceived for this new niche, and was nothing like the first episodes it ran with, which managed to butcher what fan base it had been putting together, namely because the original set up, as campy as it was (remember it was competing with things like Batman) was deemed a bit too dark. Incidently I'd have to do some checking but I seem to remember Gargoyles got some attention at the time for actually showing blood in a few of the episodes during fight scenes, not over the top gore, or anime-type "ulta-violence", but for example in one scene where Goliath gets nailed in the face there is some droplets of blood flying away after the blow which I seem to remember being a big deal at the time... and pretty much the kind of thing Disney didn't want to be associated with if it
wasn't fighting in a very specific arena.

As far as a reboot of Gargoyles goes? I don't really think so. It had some cool ideas, but I think it's better to just leave it where it was. That said, with the anime fad dying out it has occured to me that the market is primed for new attempts at more mature western animation on TV... a few successes like "Avatar" have helped cement the possibility, though truthfully I think it was trying a little too much to copy eastern conventions rather than being entirely it's own thing. Another show like Gargoyles wouldn't be amiss. I doubt we'll see that happen though, networks are stuck in their ways, and it seems like it's still pretty rare for there to be anything other than "kid toons" (maybe with some adult referances), or "adult swim" type fare. On the western front there also seems to be a tendency to be as stylized as possible as opposed to trying to create a sense of true internal realism, that detachment being the excuse they use (feeling they need to have one) when conveying their material.

Oh, and the Monster Squad bears more than a passing resemblance to Monster Fighters, a line of LEGO sets released late last year. Except this version is set in the 30's, the human Monster Fighter team are all steampunk-cyborg people with robot prosthetics, Dracula has a hotrod hearse... It rules so hard.

Technically, they're grotesques.


[1] Brevity padding:

I must have been asleep, for certainly if I had been fully awake I must have noticed the approach of such a remarkable place. In the gloom the courtyard looked of considerable size, and as several dark ways led from it under great round arches, it perhaps seemed bigger than it really is. I have not yet been able to see it by daylight... I stood close to a great door, old and studded with large iron nails, and set in a projecting doorway of massive stone. I could see even in the dim light that the stone was massively carved, but that the carving had been much worn by time and weather. As I stood, the driver jumped again into his seat and shook the reins. The horses started forward, and trap and all disappeared down one of the dark openings. -- Bram Stoker, Dracula (1897)

I was surprised that My Life as a Teenage Robot wasnt on this list, which reminded me of it, and made me go on an episode binge. Having watched it again, Im surprised moviebob has never at any point done a whole episode on the show, cause theres certainly enough there for an episode all to itself. On a slightly unrelated note, does anyone have any clue why My Life as a Teenage Robot's imdb page says its ongoing? Because Im pretty sure they stopped making episodes way back.

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