Zero Punctuation: Eve Online

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Krystallkitty:
Great review! I personally am a player of MMORPGs but this one doesn't look good at all... besides, space... is overdone, yuck.

Hope you're not basing how good it looks on Yahtzee's review. But seriously; space is overdone? It's a good thing we have WoW, because nobody else sets their MMO in a magical fantasy land with mages and elves. Have to give you props for enjoying NWN and D&D though. Kick-ass games. But if you are going to try Eve Online, then you should join a newbie-help corp like Eve University. They will familiarize ("familiarise" for you misspelling, British types) you with the complexities of the game, and you will have a much greater chance of enjoying it for what it is: Awesomeness in a can (or pod).

After playing more MMO's than you can shake a stick at? Yahtzee is sadly right. EVE is so very niche that it fits a terribly small corner of the MMO Universe, but CCP does a good job of making it nothing but appealing to that Niche. He hit the nail on the head, and he doesn't have to nit pick it to be correct in this situation. The game is REALLY that slow paced.

It got to the point that I was having to pay a full month's subscription and a half to see a single skill trained. Nothing I could do to make it faster. Nothing. Except log off and hope that after I pay the company gobs of money I might be able to afford the ship, fly it long enough without it getting blown up, and possibly enjoy the empty hole that the game becomes while waiting between skills and running out of things to do.

GatheredMyst:
After playing more MMO's than you can shake a stick at? Yahtzee is sadly right. EVE is so very niche that it fits a terribly small corner of the MMO Universe, but CCP does a good job of making it nothing but appealing to that Niche. He hit the nail on the head, and he doesn't have to nit pick it to be correct in this situation. The game is REALLY that slow paced.

It got to the point that I was having to pay a full month's subscription and a half to see a single skill trained. Nothing I could do to make it faster. Nothing. Except log off and hope that after I pay the company gobs of money I might be able to afford the ship, fly it long enough without it getting blown up, and possibly enjoy the empty hole that the game becomes while waiting between skills and running out of things to do.

Skills still train if you cancel your sub for a month ^-^

shovat:

GatheredMyst:
After playing more MMO's than you can shake a stick at? Yahtzee is sadly right. EVE is so very niche that it fits a terribly small corner of the MMO Universe, but CCP does a good job of making it nothing but appealing to that Niche. He hit the nail on the head, and he doesn't have to nit pick it to be correct in this situation. The game is REALLY that slow paced.

It got to the point that I was having to pay a full month's subscription and a half to see a single skill trained. Nothing I could do to make it faster. Nothing. Except log off and hope that after I pay the company gobs of money I might be able to afford the ship, fly it long enough without it getting blown up, and possibly enjoy the empty hole that the game becomes while waiting between skills and running out of things to do.

Skills still train if you cancel your sub for a month ^-^

Yeah, they do. But CCP Got wiser to the people that cancelled, and implemented a reactivation charge. Now it costs 20 bucks if you cancel to reactivate the game. Makes it more worthwhile to just sit and train at that point, and that makes it, as Yahtzee put it, a "Terrible waste of time."

I pretty much did what yahtzee did. I played the 14 day trial. (for like 3hours) And I'm sitting there saying to my self.... man there are so many menu's i have to go through just so i can move forward or shoot something... Since when do i gotta orbit a ship to shoot it? did i mention the menus? They have so many god damn menu's it might take an hour to find the pick your nose button. This game drove me nuts, and I continue on my quest to refuse to pay for a video game after I buy it. :)

(even though technically I never bought eve with the free trial.... but still monthly fee!!! be gone with you!!!)

The review is inherently flawed for three reasons

1) He explicitly avoided corporation/alliance play

2) He most likely (based on #1) didn't experience PvP as it was meant to be experienced

Eve is about PvP. Corporations exist as a mechanism to enhance said PvP either through logistics or actually involving yourself in a fight.

Yes there are slow times and eve, but when something goes down it happens FAST.

3) Eve is not a 1v1 game. It was never designed (with a very few notable exeptions... hrmmVagabond) for 1 v 1 encounters. ECM, the various dmg types, interdictors, and a whole slew of other game play mechanisms make pvp anything BUT pounding on each other till one person dies to anyone but the inexperienced.

It's called massively MULTIPLAYER for a reason.

I always wonder why Yahtzee even reviews MMOs? Yahtzee doesn't like MMOs and he doesn't play MMOs. It seems like having someone from Rolling Stone critique opera. Technically they're music critics, but really it's not their thing.

insanelich:

Do you rabid fanboys actually ever make new characters and check out what's available in high sec?
Because I can tell you, nothing. And getting to lowsec requires being a part of a lowsec alliance.

Not really, all you need is enough people to provide decent defense against the rats and any pirates that might come around.

It's really about knowing the territory, knowing the regulards (note: Amamake, Auga, Kourmonenn) (sp?) is a pirate haven). I've been in null sec for so long but when I first started I was in a .2 a lot. Most of the people there were friendly enough, I even worked with some of them. We had the occasional pirate, the losses weren't that bad.

Just take a little planning.

As far as Hi sec, well, you got lvl 3, lvl 4 missions, you got playing the market, you got faction warfare, you have R&D. It's more benign overall than .4 and below, but you can make a living there.

Just won't be as exciting.

Odjin:
I wish you good luck playing with real gaming pros then since "lamers" quickly get a boot since they are annoying and not fun. As mentioned games that are unbalanced are used by lamers to claim that they are skillful. It's not skill to own in a gang-bang or cheap play but it's a sign of true skill if you can win ( most of the times ) in balanced games. But I know, it's the same discussion over and over again. Lamers are never going t understand that their play-style is looked down upon. The only remedy against those is a kick-ban :D

...

And this is to have an unbalanced, overcomplicated, not fun, newbie hostile and in general annoying system. Not something I would be proud of ;)

Odjin, EVE Online is meant to be a simulator on how theorectically it would be if real people were inhabiting that star cluster and in groups that are at odds with each other.

It's a simulation of wars that would ensue, and war is never fair. Plus I've been on the losing end of said wars many times. Heck, my alliance was quite proud about being able to hold off 3 or 4 to 1 odds for so long!

Don't like it? Fine, but many do, that is the game.

I don't think yahtzee hates MMOs... i think he even said that once.
I have no personal experience with EVE, but i heard that it is like that...

This reveiw was just complaining for the sake of complaining. You could sum the review up in a sentence: This game sucked and, if you like it, you suck. In earlier reviews at the end, or somewhere. Parts that where good would be singled out, or at least mentioned. In his Bioshock review he mentioned at the begining about how it was preaty, and atmoshperic but how it lacked something. This boiled down to him roasting the game, taking everything he could dig up and throwing them at it. It sounded like a freind of mine when he tried to roast Morgan Freeman. Some of the stuff that he came up with sounded like the strained material of ths reveiw.

It's probably been said already, but EVE came out long before WoW. In truth, Yahtzee's skewering MMOs as a genre, and that's legitimate - "massively multiplayer" and "good RPG" seem to be mutually exclusive characteristics.

I like eve and WOW, and for different reasons.

Eve pros - expansive industry - balanced and working PvP (1 week old newbie has a chance agaisnt a 5 year old veteran) - the character building is much more flexible (skills) - you are not limited to one set of weapons - excelent back story
Eve cons - PvE needs much more variation - some skills take weeks to train - takes a few months to get a true idea of the game

WOW pros - PvE needs little work - good amount of backstory - somce nice class development
WOW cons - PvP is very broken and has been since the start - some classes appear to be overpowered compared to others - gear is one of the most important factors in raids and PvP

Where did it all go wrong yahtzee :(

Eve online isn't for everyone, it takes a lot of dedication, but if you play it long enough then you start seeing the fun that can be had. Ive played eve for 2 years on and off. Its boring starting I know this, but once you get some skills up your sleeve it starts to get interesting. Moving to 0.0 sec space is the most thrilling thing to do in eve. to join a big corporation that has several systems under its control, having to have fleet captains and resource management people to keep their stations pumping out ships for people within the fleet to use for mining or for a war they could be having with another corporation. Eve is the best THE BEST mmorpg that requires team work, with a small group or 50+ people all being coordinated to do a specific job. (Oh and most of the items on eve on the market are made and distributed by players themselves. Good review though Yahtzee its was pretty funny.

EVE is a strange game. I am currently on my seventh or eighth day of my 14 day trial. It's odd in that you could be a really skilled new player, with all the right strategies, and not do very well in PvP due to the time based skills, or you could own a two-year-old character and not know your stasis webifier from your tractor beam. It rewards you for, essentially, idling.

I don't know if I'm going to pay monthly for a game which rewards me not to play it, but it's looking unlikely.

Great review, I won't be playing EVE though because I HATE mmorpgs.

i gave dis game a shot wen i 1st saw it and all i can say is WHAT A HUNK OF SHIT

gota be one of the worst MMO iv ever played

grate review Yahtzee your the man

Halarious as always =)

Hahaha my mate in the office with me is a EVA fanatic and he was like "pfft man it rocks" lol
me personaly i'm not in MMO's
good review!

GatheredMyst:

shovat:
[...]
Skills still train if you cancel your sub for a month ^-^

Yeah, they do.
But CCP Got wiser to the people that cancelled, and implemented a reactivation charge.
Now it costs 20 bucks if you cancel to reactivate the game.

Why would you lie about that intentionally ?
Or, if you heard it from somebody else, why didn't you bother checking for veridicity first ?
Please show me an even remotely believable source that can confirm your claims.
Like, you know, an official statement from CCP, or a forum thread where people complain about that change (there's always eve-search.com in case it got deleted by the mods, they're not instantly there to "censor" anything, and why the hell would they censor that?)

The only time it EVER costs 20 is when you activate the account for the very first time (i.e. trial->full or just creating a full account directly).
If you pay with a NORMAL credit/debit card from a NORMAL bank, it still costs the equivalent of 15 USD (for non-EU countries) to reactivate a lapsed account for one month... not 20, not 35, just 15... if your BANK is being a jackass, then you may get some additional "international charges" or other creepy fees, but CCP doesn't charge anything extra for reactivation.

Arkracer:
EVE is a strange game. I am currently on my seventh or eighth day of my 14 day trial. It's odd in that you could be a really skilled new player, with all the right strategies, and not do very well in PvP due to the time based skills, or you could own a two-year-old character and not know your stasis webifier from your tractor beam.

That's the same with all MMOs.

Also, while being able to train while idle is an interesting concept that I glomp,,

The review is inherently flawed for three reasons

1) He explicitly avoided corporation/alliance play

2) He most likely (based on #1) didn't experience PvP as it was meant to be experienced

Eve is about PvP. Corporations exist as a mechanism to enhance said PvP either through logistics or actually involving yourself in a fight.

Yes there are slow times and eve, but when something goes down it happens FAST.

3) Eve is not a 1v1 game. It was never designed (with a very few notable exeptions... hrmmVagabond) for 1 v 1 encounters. ECM, the various dmg types, interdictors, and a whole slew of other game play mechanisms make pvp anything BUT pounding on each other till one person dies to anyone but the inexperienced.

It's called massively MULTIPLAYER for a reason.

If you tell how you played the game and you review it based on how you played your review can not be flawed for not covering things you've already said you didn't expierience. and for 3, that doesn't prove yahtzee wrong , that proves the combat system is complex.

P.S. Not only that, but people who had their longer-term PAID account expire a couple of months before any of the major expansions (which are free, by the way, and are released twice a year lately) usually get an email for a no-strings-attached FREE 14-day reactivation.

P.P.S. Hell, if you're a really nasty and profiteering kind of guy, you can pay 30 bucks a year and get 3 full months of regular training PLUS 4 long skills trained in the breaks (which can easily amount up to 6 months of actual training), and that each and every year... so you can end up paying 30 bucks for 9 months of skill training and 3 months of gameplay.

P.P.P.S. In retrospect, I actually wish they WOULD do that (what you just accused them of allegedly doing).

Rabblerabblerabble!

I know this has probably been sad thousands of times by now, but I miss when Yahtzee used different music for his intros and outros. Part of the fun was seeing what he would choose to add an additional joke or comment to the video (example: brilliantly putting Ebony and Ivory in the ending for the Uncharted review). Was this Yahtzee's choice or The Escapist's? Either way I don't care for it.

Best. Review. Yet.

I recently had someone try to beat me upside the head with how great Eve was, once you got past the days and days it took to learn what the stuff on your screen was. I bought Tabula Rasa instead. Judging by the amount of venom each game recieved i have made the right call.

finally he reviews my favorite game.... too bad he only played a trial acc... Maybe if he played for a bit longer he could of had more fun, seen more of the galaxy and had tougher missions... anyway EvE is not for mission running (at least not for me), it's for PvP hunting... :)

Let me preface this by saying I don't play EVE. I have played it in the past, but I find I no longer have the time and dedication to get the most out of it. That being said...

What an idiotic review.

Biased. Uninformed. Unimaginative.

In EVE player vs player interaction and combat IS the game, and the mining/bot-killing/mission running is in essence the punishment for getting blown up and having to outfit another ship.

"oh gosh how droll. I'm paying to be punished, how boring hurhurhur!".

That's the point of risk vs reward. If everything is just handed to you, and you lose nothing for failing except the time it took to fail, that means the whole game is boring (hi Warcraft!). Yes there are boring bits in EVE, but there are also pulse pounding passages of play where you pit your knowledge of the game mechanics and skill at ship design vs your opponents, with the winner picking over the burning wreaks to net what might be 100s of man hours worth of loot, while the loser licks his wounds and decides it might be time to log for a night or maybe a week.

Lets not even start talking about the massive fleet battles where ships and installations that took the resources of 100s of players to build are destroyed, and whole resource-rich star systems change hands.

EVE isn't the Mecca of gaming. It is a niche product whose vertical learning curve and brutal PvP will alienate 90% of new players. Never-the-less it is a game of dark depths, and for those drawn to a space-opera theme who have the patience to get beyond the starting bewilderment (which can last several months), it delivers something unique - a palpable sense of danger in a virtual world.

I'm not saying you should have kissed it's arse because it advertises here Yahtzee, but you could have at least tried to make an effort to understand what you were talking about, or failing that included a caveat to the effect that your opinions on the entire game were equivalent to someone getting as far as learning to move a pawn and thus deciding that chess is simple and boring.

laughed tons through that more than once, although ive been playing for near 2 years and love it to pieces personally. im inclined to start wearing shoes on my head. it definitely takes a special person to play the game, memory and alot of actual learning and effort are in fact required to wrap your head around it. (FYI signature analysis and focusing have to do with a ships radar detection and weapon accuracy.)

Tibike77:

GatheredMyst:

shovat:
[...]
Skills still train if you cancel your sub for a month ^-^

Yeah, they do.
But CCP Got wiser to the people that cancelled, and implemented a reactivation charge.
Now it costs 20 bucks if you cancel to reactivate the game.

Why would you lie about that intentionally ?
Or, if you heard it from somebody else, why didn't you bother checking for veridicity first ?
Please show me an even remotely believable source that can confirm your claims.
Like, you know, an official statement from CCP, or a forum thread where people complain about that change (there's always eve-search.com in case it got deleted by the mods, they're not instantly there to "censor" anything, and why the hell would they censor that?)

The only time it EVER costs 20 is when you activate the account for the very first time (i.e. trial->full or just creating a full account directly).
If you pay with a NORMAL credit/debit card from a NORMAL bank, it still costs the equivalent of 15 USD (for non-EU countries) to reactivate a lapsed account for one month... not 20, not 35, just 15... if your BANK is being a jackass, then you may get some additional "international charges" or other creepy fees, but CCP doesn't charge anything extra for reactivation.

What reason do I have to lie? Last I went to reactivate my account so that I could give it another shot, there was a twenty dollar charge, instead of a 15 dollar one.

Honestly, I think CCP is good in doing it because MMO's have always paid the bills with their subscriptions and EVE Is no exception to the rule. With the ability to train offline, an extra added incentive in the form of "You have to pay a little extra to reactivate" will stop the people just looking to train skills while repeatedly canceling. But for folks like me? It was just a little incentive to play other games that float my boat better.

I think this explains why he didn't like the game after only playing for 2 weeks:

http://upload.0x1011.org/files/LearningCurve.jpg

I can completely understand about the game that doesn't want to be played but the training system is rather useful for when you want to take a break. You can still come back and not find all your friends are now level 70 or in zones you can't reach because you're not a high enough level. Anybody can join in on just about anything in eve after a few weeks the main issue I would say is that eve doesn't make that easy and mistakes are rewarded with losing, well everything.

What I tend to find in eve however is a massie number of people who refuse to learn. You tell them smething and they go do it their way and die again anyway then complain it's not possible...

My main thing is, did Yahtzee get involved with the pvp in the game (if he did I suspect he died horribly) but thats really where the game is at.

I gotta say, it's amusing to see how many people still think Yahtzee tries to be fair in his reviews and think they are a good source of information or a good metric to base their game playing decisions on.

These things are entertainment, not news. You should view them as such. And this one was definitely one of his best.

Yahtzee himself said he uses his traffic figures to measure his worth as a human being :p what gets more traffic, patiently reviewing a game in a complete fashion or ripping to shreds whatever you can? WTB grain of salt and MOAR RIPPING PLZ

Frankly a blunt review. So blunt he missed out on the best part of the game, which is good, quality pvp, which you will only get in a player corporation or possibly, factional warfare now.

eve is more about meta-gaming the other aspects

eve does need to drastically improve the single player experience however...

Jack Forge:
Frankly a blunt review. So blunt he missed out on the best part of the game, which is good, quality pvp, which you will only get in a player corporation or possibly, factional warfare now.

eve is more about meta-gaming the other aspects

eve does need to drastically improve the single player experience however...

[sarcasm]
Mmm. Love me some meta-gaming. I just love to be the munchkin when i play DnD and the guy with a damage per shot chart for every body part i can hit when i play counter-strike.
[/sarcasm]

PvP eh? I want PvP i play Halo or TF2 or something like that.

Phandaal:
Let me preface this by saying I don't play EVE. I have played it in the past, but I find I no longer have the time and dedication to get the most out of it. That being said...

Any game that requires that kind of dedication to be played is automatically flawed. I probably have enough time to play eve(or I will after I finish watching soul eater) and probably can learn everything you need to know within 20 minutes.

What an idiotic review.

Biased. Uninformed. Unimaginative.

All reviews are biased and that makes you uninformed unless you're the kind of player who likes every aspect of the game you're playing.

In EVE player vs player interaction and combat IS the game,

Than you think they could make the combat better. Any game in which you control 1 character and is basically one click-combat can not be a good game. And as boring as yahtzee made the game sound, I am a boring person and would most likely have this game if it wasn't for the implied crappy one click style combat and the fact I have no money.

That's the point of risk vs reward. If everything is just handed to you, and you lose nothing for failing except the time it took to fail, that means the whole game is boring (hi Warcraft!). Yes there are boring bits in EVE, but there are also pulse pounding passages of play where you pit your knowledge of the game mechanics and skill at ship design vs your opponents, with the winner picking over the burning wreaks to net what might be 100s of man hours worth of loot, while the loser licks his wounds and decides it might be time to log for a night or maybe a week.

see, I love that concept but it is absolutely impossible for me to enjoy one click combat. Which to me seems to be one half of what yahtzee seems to seriously say he hates about this game other than "too complex" and "unintuitive interface" and I don't care about either.

Lets not even start talking about the massive fleet battles where ships and installations that took the resources of 100s of players to build are destroyed, and whole resource-rich star systems change hands.

See, awesome.

EVE isn't the Mecca of gaming. It is a niche product whose vertical learning curve and brutal PvP will alienate 90% of new players.

Guess what, Yahtzee played this game as the everyman.

your opinions on the entire game were equivalent to someone getting as far as learning to move a pawn and thus deciding that chess is simple and boring.

If you take more than a day to learn how to move the pawn either Chess sucks or you're a retard.

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