Zero Punctuation: Eve Online

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Funny rewiev as always. You did miss the best part of the game which is fighting with other players, groups vs groups, group meaning anything between 2 and 300. And unless you join those player corps you are so much afraid, its very hard to get in those gangs :)

All being said (in my post above), with the caveat that "not joining a player corp and only doing PvE" represents maybe around 10% of what the game has to offer (and the really boring parts of it on top of it all)...
... I find it hard NOT to agree with him on many "concerns" :)

Yeah, the interface is a pile of steaming crap, sure the sheer number of skills is daunting, there's some level of grind involved (cash instead of XP) and you do tend to get flowchartitis from playing EVE for too long :))

Review... well... a 7/10, I guess.
I've seen funnier, but this wasn't too bad.
I especially liked how he (intentionally?) made the ship fly backwards.

Eve would have been actually MORE fun in a text based game. Space is so huge that you can barely see anything anyways and everything looks identical when you DO see it, so there is no point to the super graphics present in Eve. In fact, without the graphics they wouldn't need to set the Time Needed To Go Anywhere at seventeen hours.

ive never tried it and now definatly wont.

The spaceship with the gonad on his mantle was possibly the best thing to ever happen in this galaxy.

The "shoe on head" comment really leads me to believe you have been playing this game for a very long time, and most likely like it enuf to watch the alliance tournies.

Hawkzor:
Talk about moment of truth. When I saw what the review was this week I was honestly expecting Yahtzee to wank off the game instead of crucify it strictly because EVE advertises on Escapist. I'm really surprised they let him put this video up. I have even more respect towards Escapist now.

Really? Even after his Age of Conan review that went up while the site was skinned up for Age of Conan?

Thank you for such an excellent review. As a space game fanatic, I'll play anything with a spaceship in it, and while I can handle most games, EVE bores the CRAP out of me.

If you want to try a space-based MMO wherein actual skill does matter, try Jumpgate -- wherin you actually have to fly the spaceships rather than simply pointing and clicking. Far, far superior, IMO.

Speaking as a 2-year EVE player, I will say a couple things:
a) UI needs some work (I quite like it actually)
b) Yahtzee reviewed low-level PVE content in a NPC corporation which is literally the least interesting thing you could do in the game
c) note about the skill-training system: real-time training seems weird, but since you can't train any skill past level 5 (and each level takes 4-5x as long as the one before it), it actually means that new players can be competitive with old players (if both of you have the same skills for frigates, and the other player has another 20mil skill points in other ships / weapons, those SP do nothing)
d) CCP Greyscale [dev] says: "consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun, in my experience."
e) Come back around winter, they should be releasing ambulation, which will let you leave your ship and walk around space stations (and eventually do a lot of very very cool things)

Good review though, I laughed pretty hard.
Signature Analysis was the best ( >_> and I've got that skill at lvl5 )

From a business perspective, EVE is clearly failing somewhere when it is unable to hook a player with its 14 day trial access. The whole idea of such a promotional gimmick is to portray to the player all the "fun", "shiny" and "awesome" stuff that the game has to offer. If it is relying on the individual to figure out that all the "fun" stuff is available only after joining a player corporation, it fails. If it expects the player to delude himself to believe the initial grindfest, as taught by the tutorial, is the most fun aspect of the game, it fails.

It may be a decent game, but the approach by the developers towards new gamers is a failure.

I also remember reading about EVE and some of its consumer relation problems...

2nd job you have to pay for - spot on!

Whilst there is a lot that he didn't touch on, it's hard to find fault with any point in this review. 14 days will only scratch the surface of eve's gameplay though.

To be fair it's in the player run corps, alliances, that you find the game. All the npc stuff is just training really.

Right on the money, EVE is huge, and drawn out. And combat is little more than circeling an opponent till either breaks, or someone is sitting 200km away and boing you into another dimension.
*remembers the months some skills take to finish.

goodman528:
Very good review, I nevered played Eve, but my friend has. His comment about it was: "It's a very deep and complex game that requires a lot of skill to master." Which is basically what Mr Yahtzee said in his review.

I hope that was sarcasm, because I'm pretty sure I recall Yahtzee mentioning how incredibly boring this game is several different times.

Last time I checked, "Boring" =/= "deep and complex game." xD

Yahtzee is right about Eve.
I played EvE for a bit then quit, It was so boring, UI was done badly.
Reminded me of Tabula Rasa >.>

I was just thinking 'is it just me or does The Escapist advertise every game Yahtzee is meanwhile ripping to shreds..' and I'm right.

Veloxi:
Thank you for such an excellent review. As a space game fanatic, I'll play anything with a spaceship in it, and while I can handle most games, EVE bores the CRAP out of me.

If you want to try a space-based MMO wherein actual skill does matter, try Jumpgate -- wherin you actually have to fly the spaceships rather than simply pointing and clicking. Far, far superior, IMO.

EVE has a number of older players and players who do not enjoy twitch-based gameplay, including myself.
Looking over the page of features for jumpgate, it seems to have many of the same features as EVE (plus what looks to be a PVP flag).

I don't see anything on the scale of EVE's player-made corporations and alliances and those are where much of the best content is.

I'm playing Eve for nearly 4 years now, and I could go on and on what is possible in the game; But I know, Yahtzee has his oppinion, everybody else does. Some like it, alot doesn't.

Same about the trial, with Eve its "Either you get hooked on it the first days, or you never will".

I had a great laugh because I know most of his points are perfectly valid and I remember my beginning phase.

Yahtzee pretty much summed up everything I'd say about my trial with EVE, except for a couple of things:

-I will give the game that it's very pretty. I took many, many screenshots in my trial period, and still use them as my screensaver today.
-Oh sure, EVE is just like WoW for the reasons stated, except for the one crucial fact that makes WoW 50 times as interesting as EVE: The quests may just boil down to go here and kill x, or deliver y in both games, but at least in WoW it doesn't take 30-fucking-minutes of watching your autopilot to get to your destination. Know what I did when I played EVE? I had a book with me, which I only put down for 30 seconds at a time to click "accept quest" and set my destination, or to click "end quest" and get a new one.

EDIT:

It seems basically to have got caught up in minutiae that even a D&D player wouldn't care about.

As an avid D&D player, I wholeheartedly agree.

Never played Eve, don't intend on. City of Heroes is the ruling MMO.
Not the best review, but not a bad one.

Surggical_Scar:
Hm, Yahtzee making an effort to find a new and inventive MMO? Is it raining custard? Have my legs suddenly turned into Belgian tourists?

Tries to be WoW.

Fails miserably.

Funny as always, however I just gotta say about this comment, Eve was out before WoW, and doesn't try to be WoW in any way aside from the "trying to be a successful MMO." I play Eve and enjoy it, but definitely agree it is not a game for everyone.

I both agree and disagree with Yahtzee's review in this case. Having played EVE for about a year and a half now and finding the game still fun, he however does correctly point out some of the game's primary weaknesses.
The PvE (especially in a NPC-run starter corp) is boring beyond belief. The interface (even though it grows on you eventually) is clunky and could use a major overhaul and "flowchartitis" is all but mandatory if you intend to play the market and all that.
The number of skills on offer can indeed be overwhelming, but at the start most of them should not concern a player. You don't have the pre-requisites for most anyway.
However the game neglects to make this clear (and doesn't explain some important concepts either).

In all, what Yahtzee reviewed is EVEs 14-day free trial, which I admit isn't the best. (especially solo)
The game has so much more scope than a normal MMO that even a 3 months trial would be on the short side to be honest.

A good review though, highlighting those points of weakness that EVE has for mass appeal.

PS: One final comment though about the combat, if you're flying a turret based vessel combat is considerably more involved than just click and attack. Your skills determine how well your guns track, your speed relative to your target determines whether or not your guns can track their target. Range plays a massive role, since all turrets (depending on the ammo loaded) have different optimal ranges and falloff meaning that keeping an enemy at the best possible range can be quite a challenge both in PvP and PvE (although in PvP it is harder than in PvE.)

Wow, you didn't really get EvE did you? Single handedly the best MMO out there, there is litterally something for everyone. Not joining a corporation in EvE is like running around a city in Wow, there is nothing to do, your broke, no fun.

The entire content to this game is player driven, truly sad that you didn't get it.

I'd say stick to reviewing shitty FPS or mainstream xbox titles.

-1 respect

In all honesty I did actually try EvE but was forewarned by one of my friends not to because, in his words:

"It will take you months to do anything that you can see as solid progression"

Fair enough, I did ignore that and tried to see even the starting bits as progression but sadly he was right it just didn't seem like you can play it, you just watch it. Its like a strange TV show you don't really get. The only way I can recommend it is to say is that its better then Too Human.

Re: Barciad (comment #51) -

Try Star Wars: Empire at War? It's pretty much Total War with space battles and far less polish.

I've played Eve for well over a year now. If you have ever wanted to try a game where the results of a pvp battle between you and your enemies has real consequences, not just silly ranks or honor points but stuff blowing up and being gone forever, try Eve. And spend a little time finding a player corp full of cool, mature, and friendly people (yes they exist, and they aren't all full of supernerds. Just regular nerds).

If you want to experience the most realistic player driven economy of any MMO, made possible by the real loss mentioned above, try Eve.

That said most of the review was accurate, the PvE is crap, the interface sucks, etc. It is not, however, trying to be WoW.

MasterOfHisOwnDomain:
I was just thinking 'is it just me or does The Escapist advertise every game Yahtzee is meanwhile ripping to shreds..' and I'm right.

Not until Yahtzee starts reviewing terrible Korean MMOs, which we seem to be advertising regularly these days :P

Ack, harsh. But reasonably fair, the first couple weeks of EvE suck arse. So, yeah, he played the worst bits of a niche game, the slagging is understandable.

But it is obvious he doesn't understand the game. Overall, I think even if he had got to the best bits, he still would have slagged it because to enjoy EvE you do need the mentality that lets you weather boredom to get to the great bits (to make the good bits great, because grinding is so dull you really don't wanna lose a ship)

It is not like WoW!

Could of told you that and I've not played the game

From what this discussion thread sounds like sorta has the problem that most Korean games have, lousy PvE but excellent PvP. Don't get me wrong PvP is typically the fun part of ANY MMO, but PvP is not what you try to hook people with right off the bat.

It's more of a space themed Everquest in my opinion.

I like the idea of throwing it down a well. That might spice things up a bit =D

Yahtzee seems to base his reviews on content that the developers provide rather than content the users create. This is perfectly understandable. After all, that great group which contributes so much to an MMO online experience will not be the same for everyone. A review would be inaccurate and misleading if the experience a user got out of the box did not closely match the experience the reviewer had.

My problem with this review and several other Zero Punctuations lies in his choice of game. By picking a game that varies so much depending on the other people who are playing Yahtzee seems intentionally flame war bating. Perhaps he is trying to be like Howard Setrn and trying to create controversy for ratings. However I prefer the single player ZP's which seem more comprehensive and less whiney.

Yahtzee makes some very good points, but I think that he has missed the point somewhat. Let me elaborate:

- For one, he thought you could only pay for the game with real money. I've been playing it for the last two years by paying the subscription with in-game money, which I acquired not by grinding, but by killing other people (which is quite difficult, since I am a person myself and therefore had to have certain skill to beat them).
- Furthermore, most people in the game are in player corporations, so by refusing to join one, you would actually fail to be the "everyman".
- The real fun of EVE is in PVP, that's what the game was made for. The most you could say to criticise the game without fighting other players is to say that it's bad for single player, which is fair enough. However, I don't think that StarCraft, for instance, would have sold 4.5M copies and become a televised sport in Korea if it were not for the multiplayer, so that's an important thing to bear in mind (but I digress).

its not really a game for fps shooter mobbits and playing it without finding a corp is like eating a banana split without bananas

Ha ha brilliant. I have a friend who loves the game, and tries to talk me into playing it. I'm so going to show him this...and then expect a long talk on how yatzhee is apparently wrong. >>

I do have to reluctantly agree with the feeling that MMOs and even some RPGs (99+ hours played on Final Fantasy 7 to do everything?) start to feel like having a second job. After a while there isn't really a since of fun in time-intensive games, just that you feel responsible for having to put in time to progress for the sake of duty.

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