Jimquisition: Reasons To Pass On Season Passes

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I have actually only preordered two games and done one season pass. The first preorder was for Arkham City, which I still play and love, but the last preorder and season pass was for Assassin's Creed 3 and totally soured me on the whole thing. I actually regretted buying the season pass the moment I left the store when it occurred to me that I might not even want the DLC that they were going to put out. As of now I have downloaded but never played any of it.

AC3 is a good example of the trap that is so easy to fall into. A game that gets a lot of good press, look great and everyone is chomping at the bit to get. When it comes out it is a glitchy mess but you don't know that because you already have it before any of the reviews have come out and before the developer has even had a chance to address the issue. You then get the season pass where you pay up front for something that doesn't exist and that you may not want when it does.

This really comes down to caveat emptor. You have to take the time to carefully consider what you are buying and whether or not you are getting the best value for your money. To do that you need to know what the product actually is and that isn't possible with a season pass since the product is unseen. The industry will always try to get the money out of you as fast as possible since, to them, it represents a guaranteed income and reduces their uncertainty. We as consumers though need to realize that we don't work for them and their bottom line is none of our concern but whether the product meets our wants or needs.

Of all of the traps that marketing has created for the modern consumer this is really one of the simplest to avoid. When the cashier at your local game store asks you if you want a season pass you say, 'no.' Don't feel bad, they don't work for the game companies either. And if you see on the list of downloads on PSN or XBL just pass it by.

i dont buy season passes becouse i see them as money grabs and relly nothing i want in them... hell i dont normly even buy DLC unless it's on steam sale (or in some rare cases for games i truly love and want the extra stuff... i miss the old PC game days when addon and extra maps were free... and given with love...not this milk it till its dead and no one will touch it... quick hit it with a bat and make it twitch we can get some more out of it...

ah well... have to see where this all pans out to..

I don't mind pre-ordering things I pretty much know I'm going to like, in my case Pokemon and Arkham Origins.

But the last Season Pass I went in on was actually Bioshock Infinite, and I thought that was a really safe bet and they would do it right.

Last time I make that mistake.

Bleh, I hate Season Passes. They and Online Passes need to just go away.

Thanatos2k:

Pat Hulse:

Thanatos2k:

You know, it is possible to release a game and not release any DLC. Imagine that, selling the complete game the first time and not having to worry about consumer interest waning in your game a month later - because they were completely satisfied the first time!

Obviously that's possible, but I'd prefer having DLC as a viable business model for a number of reasons:

1) Development time is hell and it's difficult for producers to find the right balance between focusing on fine-tuning the game engine and the mechanics and producing the actual content for the game. All too often a game will ship before it's ready because the developers were focused more on cranking out a large amount of content rather than perfecting the core gameplay. A DLC model makes it more economical to focus on quality over quantity.

I disagree. It's done the opposite - devs now are being split off from the main teams and shunted onto DLC development INSTEAD of perfecting the main game. Worse, console games are starting to acquire one of the few downsides to PC game development - the "we'll fix it in a patch" syndrome where the initial product is flawed and they'll fix it later (perhaps in a DLC!). Despicable companies like Capcom even have the nerve to include bug fixes and balance changes IN THE DLC, essentially charging you for patches.

2) Too many developers reinvent the wheel even though it's often unnecessary to do so. How many full-priced sequels end up just being recreated copies of the previous game with new assets and content? How many sequels could just as easily be produced as DLC for a fraction of the cost? Imagine instead of rushing out sequels every 2 or 3 years, developers just made one really solid franchise entry per generation and produced seasons of episodic content like "The Walking Dead" does?

Episodic content is episodic content - that's not exactly DLC - that's you buying the actual game in sequential pieces as it gets made, not buying the whole game and then getting extra crap shoved onto it (or pulled from it to sell back to you).

3) It theoretically allows developers to take more risks since DLC tends to be lower-investment. They can try out unusual ideas or test out different mechanics or give younger, less experienced (but often more ambitious) developers a chance to cut their teeth on something smaller-scale in the AAA industry, perhaps leading to more innovation in a perpetually stagnating high-budget industry.

DLC's been around a while now - when has this EVER happened? The closest I can see would be something like Far Cry Blood Dragon which is more of an expansion or mod than DLC. DLC never produces anything that is more innovative than the original game. Modders do - and that's free for everyone.

My point isn't that DLC does all of these things but that, done properly, DLC can do all of these things. I'm not trying to defend the current practice of DLC but rather to suggest that abolishing it entirely isn't the right solution partially because of things like "Blood Dragon" and the concept of episodic content in the first place (which wouldn't be possible without a pre-existing DLC infrastructure) and also that favoring the "Season Pass" gimmick over the "Day One DLC" gimmick is a step in the right direction. It's still not an ideal system and definitely puts the lion's share of the risk on the consumer as Jim points out, but it also potentially alleviates a lot of the problems you cite. The reason producers shove developers onto the DLC rather than onto perfecting the core gameplay is because until the "Season Pass" gimmick, producers were trying to get DLC ready for launch. With the "Season Pass" method, however, they can take their sweet time without sacrificing potential sales.

Yes, DLC has problems and companies use it as a crutch, but those that do are rarely rewarded for it. It's why they're experimenting with the Season Pass thing in the first place. They know that leaning too heavily on Day One DLC is hurting their product and so they're looking for a way to take advantage of the launch DLC sales window without sacrificing the quality of the core product.

And DLC can and has worked. You mentioned "Blood Dragon" already. My personal favorite example is the "Rock Band" series, which released new DLC every week for over 5 years. I wish more games would just be good games and rather than waste time and money on a sequel just build new stories off of the game that people already bought. The games industry has been trying way too hard for far too long to be the movie industry... maybe it should try to be more like HBO.

One could supposedly wait until a collection pack is released, but that makes you some kind of horrible person.

Strazdas:

These people can buy digital and get it delivered the second it launches.
Map packs are the worst, especially since by the time they are out modders have usually created better maps for free already.

Some (like me) want a physical copy.

A map editor in every game sounds great on paper but in terms of development and space on the disc, it's rather difficult and costly to implement a fully featured map editor a la the Unreal Editor or the Far Cry 3 Editor. One solution to this is to implement an editor that's not as large and extensive but then, if you do that, we're back to the map packs again because modders won't be able to create the same quality maps since they don't have all the tools.

Thank god for Jim!

You tell 'em Sterling!

DVS BSTrD:
The best additional content is never included in the season pass anyway, much better to wait and DLsee what turns up after launch.

Normally I get a chuckle out of your over-the-top puns...but this one hurt my brain...my very THOUGHTS are in pain...

Oh, and Jim, I'm sure that out of a hundred and 140 some-odd posts someone has already pointed this out but just in case they haven't: epic mic drops tend to work better sans the podium. :P

OT: I only pre-order games that I know I'll like...and I can happily say that more times than not I have come away satisfied. Arkham Origins, for instance, I'm pretty sure I'm going to enjoy seeing as how much I enjoyed the first two games and the fact that, despite being made by a new studio, it looks like they haven't fudged up the most important/fun parts of those games: the combat. As long as they've added to and built off of the original combat scheme made by Rocksteady, I know I'll be happy. Assassin's Creed III, on the other hand, turned out to be a massive disappointment and I felt like a giant boob for pre-ordering that piece of crap. To be fair, I could be wrong about Arkham Origins and turn out dissatisfied with it as well, but everything I've seen from the game says "This is gonna be frickin' sweet", so I'm trusting that my instincts are correct.

DLC, on the other hand, is an entirely different beast. The only reason I have a Bioshock Infinite Season Pass is because my friend works at GameStop and he actually hooked me up with a Season Pass code for free. Beyond that, however, you never know when the DLC is going to come out, let alone if it'll be good or not. I don't even know if I'll still be bothered to play the game (or if I'll even still own it) by the time the DLC comes out so why bother? Truth be told, the only reason I still have BS: Infinite is because I got the free Season Pass...but beyond that, I've just been sitting around waiting for the DLC story to come out, having only played the main game through 1.5 playthroughs.

I learnt my season pass lesson the hard way with BF3. They call it "premium", it's the same thing. 1/4 of the DLC packs was actually decent (Aftermath). The rest was unimaginative shite. I won't be premiuming again.

Totally agree. Season passes and pre-orders have become the new shady pay wall to content we should get anyway.

I love Bioshock Infinite and Borderlands 2 but all the DLC fragmentation just plain screws gamers. Many will just end up waiting for the GotY edition with all the DLC included. From a publisher stand point, this probably looks like a win win. Sure, we get that they are a business etc, but don't bite or shit on the hand that feeds you. A bit of goodwill goes a long way.

I'm glad I don't pre-order games anymore, because seeing this and that piece of content farmed out to odd retailers is just annoying and disrespecting gamers intelligence.

Borederlands 2 is an excellent example of why to never purchase season passes.

I got the game originally on my Ps3...along with the season pass. Figured it would be a good deal over all.

Thing is...eventually I missed playing it on my PC...but....by that time there were tons of Sales. I was able to get the original Borderlands 2 and ALL the DLC...including the extra characters, upgrades etc...for $21 total on my pc.

PS3 + Season pass was around $100 (and I bought both Krang and Mechromancer as well for another $20 on my Ps3). Total spent on Ps3 version with season pass ....about $120.

Total spent on PC version with everything except the latest level expansion part (Which I don't need)...$21.

What is wrong with this equation?

Now it's true....I would not have been able to play the game for a long time if I waited to only play it for $21....but the newest expansion had just been released.....and the other expansions where not exactly something I would have lost alot waiting for. The special they had was 75% off the cost of all the DLC with 20% off your total after that. Point being the $40 base DLC you got with the season pass for $30....only ended up costing about $8 (for some reason I think it was actually only $7 but not sure why it got down to that).

That is what is wrong with season passes. They don't take sales into account, or price drops over time etc.

Also they don't take into account bad DLC...or DLC you don't really want/need. Honestly the only DLC I really liked was the last one (Tiny Tina's). The rest was missable to be honest. Yes, when I could get them for almost nothing I picked them up for my PC as well...but I wouldn't have missed having them.

When projecting future content on season passes, you really should take into account price drops and sales as well, and lower the over all price a bit more. 25% off for buying a season pass (compared to the long term price) is honestly what should be given for buying all the content together once it's released. It doesn't include any incentive to actually buy the content in ADVANCE as well.

Season passes should basically start at 50% of the total eventual price of all the content. Anything less is an insult.

Jim Sterling is a self-righteous blowhard. I work for my money, and I'll spend it however I damn well please.

UnnDunn:
Jim Sterling is a self-righteous blowhard. I work for my money, and I'll spend it however I damn well please.

I don't think Sterling would begrudge you that, just don't expect him to respect your choice.

My belief is that I will buy a product if and when it is available and worth my money and not a second sooner. If companies are taking money and not providing the product then they get the extra benefit of having your cash on hand without having delivered anything for it; that's called a LOAN.

Where is our interest, games industry, on all of the millions of dollars of loans you have taken from your consumers.

I also view Kickstarter in the same light; asking for loans with no mention of paying any interest for those loans.

Of course pre-ordering DLC is silly as shit so I won't say anything more about it. Let's look instead at game and console pre-orders. It has gotten to the point where people feel they MUST pre-order if they want a game or console on launch day. In other words, the pre-order mentality feeds itself.

Gamers need to do themselves a favor and just stop pre-ordering. Just stop and if enough people do, then it will no longer feel necessary to pre-order.

Pre ordering a season pass seems ridiculous for a game that you don't know if you actually like yet...But what can you say to an industry that successfully replaced playable demos with teaser trailers and worthless pre order bonuses? If publishers can workout beforehand that the games going to flop then they can cut the funding out of the DLC to make it as cheap to produce as possible. Selling vague promises is a great way to fill in poor sales but also gives the appearance of confidence where there isn't a whole lot.

I don't mind pre-ordering a game I know I want, I'll find the best price/deal however Season Passes can go get stuffed!
I foolishly bought the Saints Row 4 season pass, it doesn't include the GAT V pack... I wanted a gun that fired knives:( Well no more, I've learnt my lesson!

Arnoxthe1:

Strazdas:

These people can buy digital and get it delivered the second it launches.
Map packs are the worst, especially since by the time they are out modders have usually created better maps for free already.

Some (like me) want a physical copy.

A map editor in every game sounds great on paper but in terms of development and space on the disc, it's rather difficult and costly to implement a fully featured map editor a la the Unreal Editor or the Far Cry 3 Editor. One solution to this is to implement an editor that's not as large and extensive but then, if you do that, we're back to the map packs again because modders won't be able to create the same quality maps since they don't have all the tools.

Sure, some want to, but then they should accept that with physical copies you got certain problems, such as having to wait in line for example.

I didnt said we need map editors in games. what we need is a comprehensible way of file storage and coding. you know, sort of like how Relic did it back when it was alive. they didnt provide any user tools. the modders themselves created tools. because files were stored in .big packages, scripts were written in LUA that modders decrypted themselves, and allowed to make a lot of mods, even by people like me who usually arent knowledgable enough, that made the game last much longer. And before you ask im talking about homeworld series. you know the thing people are ready to give money for a HD remake now. its 13 years old, and people still play it, and still create mods for it. thats a good life if anything.
modders are more resourceful than you think, there are programmers who play with game code for fun too you know.

The thing I hate most about season passes is that it doesn't get you every single DLC release for the game, only selected releases. What's the point of it?!

Season passes and DLC is why I don't support games at launch anymore. Games are just not worth the $60 plus the extra to have a complete experience. Why waste money on a game and DLC when I can wait and get a complete edition later on? Borderlands 2 is a perfect example of this. It literally has over $100 in content. The season pass doesn't actually include all of it. It only includes like four of five items, or about half of the $100. What kind of garbage is that? They just released the Game of the Year edition yesterday, just like I knew they would. It costs $60 to get the GOTY edition, or $90 for the game and season pass if I got it on launch, and up to $160 if I wanted everything!

And please apologists, spare me your fucking bullshit on how the DLC doesn't take away from the experience of the game. Umm, yeah, it actually kind of does. They are part of the damn game, thus part of the experience. It doesn't matter if it came out later.

fluxy100:
I stand by the fact that a season pass is an option, it is a show of goodwill from the purchaser to the supplier that they trust that the DLC will be good and they are paying them beforehand because of that belief. If someone doesn't want the season pass and decides that they want to wait then that is all and good, they get the upside of seeing the DLC but the downside of a higher price.

I also hate it whenever anyone complains about the Borderlands 2 DLC season pass, to me It's one of the few season passes done extremely well. They stated beforehand what people were going to get, released said DLC they promised and made a few more, of course you're not going to get the other DLC with the season pass, that's not what they promised. To ask otherwise is to ask for something extra when you already payed for a set amount of DLC and received the DLC you payed for.

Umm, wrong. People who wait DON'T have to pay a higher price because the season pass is always available, even after everything is released. Also here's a little newsflash: no, these things aren't really optional. It's psychology. They are always trying to get you to pay extra. Funny how you bring up Borderlands 2, as that game is a perfect example. In Borderlands 2, you have to pay just to raise your damn level cap! Sorry, but no, Borderlands 2 doesn't feature extremely well done DLC. It's actually a ripoff. Especially since yesterday they released a game of the year edition for only $60. Much better than paying $60 for the base game, then at least $30 for only SOME of the DLC.

Blue Ranger:

fluxy100:
I stand by the fact that a season pass is an option, it is a show of goodwill from the purchaser to the supplier that they trust that the DLC will be good and they are paying them beforehand because of that belief. If someone doesn't want the season pass and decides that they want to wait then that is all and good, they get the upside of seeing the DLC but the downside of a higher price.

I also hate it whenever anyone complains about the Borderlands 2 DLC season pass, to me It's one of the few season passes done extremely well. They stated beforehand what people were going to get, released said DLC they promised and made a few more, of course you're not going to get the other DLC with the season pass, that's not what they promised. To ask otherwise is to ask for something extra when you already payed for a set amount of DLC and received the DLC you payed for.

Umm, wrong. People who wait DON'T have to pay a higher price because the season pass is always available, even after everything is released. Also here's a little newsflash: no, these things aren't really optional. It's psychology. They are always trying to get you to pay extra. Funny how you bring up Borderlands 2, as that game is a perfect example. In Borderlands 2, you have to pay just to raise your damn level cap! Sorry, but no, Borderlands 2 doesn't feature extremely well done DLC. It's actually a ripoff. Especially since yesterday they released a game of the year edition for only $60. Much better than paying $60 for the base game, then at least $30 for only SOME of the DLC.

You mean a game with DLC eventually released a GOTY edition so people can buy all the DLC at once? The hell you say!! The idea of a GOTY has been around for much longer than the Borderlands games, It's always been get the DLC earlier or buy the game later for a cheaper price with all the DLC included. Nothing you say makes it seem like their season pass was flawed in any way.

And I already answered in a previous post that I was mistaken when I said the season pass went away eventually.

Strazdas:

Sure, some want to, but then they should accept that with physical copies you got certain problems, such as having to wait in line for example.

I didnt said we need map editors in games. what we need is a comprehensible way of file storage and coding. you know, sort of like how Relic did it back when it was alive. they didnt provide any user tools. the modders themselves created tools. because files were stored in .big packages, scripts were written in LUA that modders decrypted themselves, and allowed to make a lot of mods, even by people like me who usually arent knowledgable enough, that made the game last much longer. And before you ask im talking about homeworld series. you know the thing people are ready to give money for a HD remake now. its 13 years old, and people still play it, and still create mods for it. thats a good life if anything.
modders are more resourceful than you think, there are programmers who play with game code for fun too you know.

Or I could just preorder it and not wait in line. Best of both worlds. :\

And you're talking about a solution for PC games. I'm talking about map packs in general which are mainly for consoles of course. PC's have it really easy in terms of modding.

I still disagree with the concept that if DLC comes out quickly then it means it was teared from the main game.
Don't people know by now that DLC is often planned out during the development process?

It's not like companies wait until after game launch and then start thinking, "Should we consider adding content for money, patch it for free, or just stop supporting it?"

There's no reason to get angry when a company offers day one DLC, on disc DLC or season passes. The general content being offered was in planning for a while now. I've yet to play a game without DLC in which the game felt incomplete and left me confused. That's a good thing because I very rarely buy any kind of DLC.

I get where Jim is coming from in this episode and I agree that it's not wise to spend your money on pre-ordering a game plus it's seasons pass when you have no idea what the actual game is like. That aside, I don't think there's anything wrong with the existence of these things. Let gamers pre-order if they want...we live in an age where people will fund kickstarter games based on far less detail than we have at the time of a season pass. Buyer Beware is a given.

See THIS is why I watch this show. Mr Sterling your opinion mirrors my own on this one. Post launch support? Payday 2 has post launch support they are fixing issues and adding in new content FOR FREE!!!(minus the cost of buying the game to begin with) Killzone what ever the heck that was,is getting a prepayment on ideas, NOT post game support. So in effect we are paying more for the same games or kickstarting for big businesses.

Season Passes are certainly a gamble..
I did not plan on getting my season pass for Borderlands 2 nor did I buy it; it was gifted to me last Christmas.
In hindsight, it would have been a great purchase, but how could I have known the quality of the DLC in advance when it was first announced; when it didn't even exist?

For Borderlands 2, it worked out great for me in the end, but it's also something that I can see getting abused. Abused in an even worse way than shit like Day 1 DLC, "disc locked content" and all the other bullshit paywalls that have been steadily creeping into games since the world cried foul on Horse Armor back in Oblivion.

Vault Citizen:
This is why I'm glad I didn't buy the Last of Us Season Pass. I did think about it to support the game but after they said what the DLC would be it turned out that I only wanted to buy one DLC item that would be sold as part of the season pass.

Campaign DLC by any chance? That's the case for me. As great as TLoU's multiplayer is I bought the game for the single player story, that's what I want more of, not extra maps/ guns for multiplayer.

OT: I don't think season passes are bad/ should go, I think they're just badly implemented. The way they're currently arranged there is no way I would ever buy a season pass before every single piece of DLC it covered had been released for all the reasons Jim said HOWEVER with the correct set of cirumstances I might.

The simplest thing developers could do is give precise (and guaranteed) release dates and at least a rough description of every piece of DLC covered by the season pass and promise that the price of the season pass and all DLC items won't change for a minimum period e.g. until 6-12 months after the final piece of DLC has been released. This would do two things: give customers certainty about what it is they're buying and when they can expect to receive it (something that is generally expected with any other purchase) AND ensure that the season pass will remain good value for a reasonable period. As Jim said it's ridiculous to suggest people should give a company money for something that does not yet exist. Until the developers have at least a rough idea of the DLC they'll make and present a solid schedule for it they shouldn't be taking people's money, even Kickstarter offers this level of assurance. The second thing they could do is, in addition to making it better value than buying DL seperately, include exclusive content. Not neccessarily anything so exceptional that players without a season pass will feel excluded, just a gesture to reward customer loyalty, preferably from the moment they buy the season pass; it could even be something as simple as extra player skins. And finally, and this is the part that will take the most time and effort, the triple A devs putting these season passes out need to earn back the trust and respect of their audience by showing that they care about customer satisfaction and not just their profit margins.

Just my two cents and no doubt other people may disagree but I do think season passes could be good for both the gaming business and the customers if they were implemented better.

canadamus_prime:
I will not pre-order games and I will definitely not pre-order DLC. Season Passes and any Publisher that uses them can go fuck themselves.

Exactly. They just want money up front without working for it. Makes me wonder why Hollywood doesn't let you pre-order tickets to movies coming out months from now.

Oh, wait. That's because that would be retarded and the general public wouldn't put up with it.

Gamers on the other hand are (pardon my French) immature and stupid enough to turn even their purchasing decisions into a competition. The reason these stupid pre-order systems even exist is too many customers buy into hype and are eager to throw their money -- or their parents' money -- away.

boradis:

canadamus_prime:
I will not pre-order games and I will definitely not pre-order DLC. Season Passes and any Publisher that uses them can go fuck themselves.

Exactly. They just want money up front without working for it. Makes me wonder why Hollywood doesn't let you pre-order tickets to movies coming out months from now.

Oh, wait. That's because that would be retarded and the general public wouldn't put up with it.

Gamers on the other hand are (pardon my French) immature and stupid enough to turn even their purchasing decisions into a competition. The reason these stupid pre-order systems even exist is too many customers buy into hype and are eager to throw their money -- or their parents' money -- away.

I have to wonder why this whole pre-ordering thing still goes on. How many times are people going to get stung by pre-ordering something that turns out to be shit? For me it only took once. If you put your hand on a hot stove you learn pretty fast not to put your hand on the fucking stove again, but apparently when gamers get burned by pre-ordering something they thought was going to be good and it turns out to be shit the message just doesn't sink in. Also I don't know about anyone else, but I have to question the quality of a game that has pre-order bonuses up the yin-yang.

Arnoxthe1:

Strazdas:

Sure, some want to, but then they should accept that with physical copies you got certain problems, such as having to wait in line for example.

I didnt said we need map editors in games. what we need is a comprehensible way of file storage and coding. you know, sort of like how Relic did it back when it was alive. they didnt provide any user tools. the modders themselves created tools. because files were stored in .big packages, scripts were written in LUA that modders decrypted themselves, and allowed to make a lot of mods, even by people like me who usually arent knowledgable enough, that made the game last much longer. And before you ask im talking about homeworld series. you know the thing people are ready to give money for a HD remake now. its 13 years old, and people still play it, and still create mods for it. thats a good life if anything.
modders are more resourceful than you think, there are programmers who play with game code for fun too you know.

Or I could just preorder it and not wait in line. Best of both worlds. :\

And you're talking about a solution for PC games. I'm talking about map packs in general which are mainly for consoles of course. PC's have it really easy in terms of modding.

Yes, but you would then be buying a cat in a bag. a well advertised cat, but still a cat in a bag. and then you waive your right to complain it didnt met your expectations.

Well yes, modding on consoles are pretty much nonexistant, so you have to suffer extortoinate map packs due to console folk not making modding support. basically you got to suffer for buying a console.
I mean dont take offence but if modding is important to you why would you buy a console version to begin with?

boradis:

Exactly. They just want money up front without working for it. Makes me wonder why Hollywood doesn't let you pre-order tickets to movies coming out months from now.

Oh, wait. That's because that would be retarded and the general public wouldn't put up with it.

They do. you can buy a ticket for a movie in theater sometimes as early as over a month ahead. judging from numbers of seats remaining on the site that deals with those - people actually buy them.
also, music concerts usually sell out months before, but that coudl be argued that you already know what your getting because you probably already head the authors songs if your buying a ticket.

canadamus_prime:
I have to wonder why this whole pre-ordering thing still goes on. How many times are people going to get stung by pre-ordering something that turns out to be shit? For me it only took once. If you put your hand on a hot stove you learn pretty fast not to put your hand on the fucking stove again, but apparently when gamers get burned by pre-ordering something they thought was going to be good and it turns out to be shit the message just doesn't sink in. Also I don't know about anyone else, but I have to question the quality of a game that has pre-order bonuses up the yin-yang.

The saem reaosn people keep repeatedly get hyped and dissapointed by games. people are stupid. Personally i just use the yatzees gamer matrix when it comes to games.
image
It also probably helps that i NEVER buy at launch and by the time i buy it the while opinion war is settled and you can read some decent reviews. but i usually set my mind on what i want quite early on, and only change it if i read soemthing about it i know ill hate.

Strazdas:

Yes, but you would then be buying a cat in a bag. a well advertised cat, but still a cat in a bag. and then you waive your right to complain it didnt met your expectations.

Well yes, modding on consoles are pretty much nonexistant, so you have to suffer extortoinate map packs due to console folk not making modding support. basically you got to suffer for buying a console.
I mean dont take offence but if modding is important to you why would you buy a console version to begin with?

I'm not saying you should preorder every game, but for games that you just KNOW are going to be good like Skyrim or Halo 3 or GTA V, then preordering is hardly ever a cat in a bag. And if it didn't meet my expectations, well, I can always sell it.

I don't know about extortionate considering some map packs have some incredibly well-crafted and beautiful maps that would be few and far between in a modding community. Also, with custom content, you got to search for everything. Which isn't really that bad at all but sometimes the really good stuff can fly right past you without you even noticing. And ESPECIALLY if there's a lot of content out there for a game like Unreal Tournament for example.

As to why I'd buy a console version... Because a certain game may not be available for PC? Because my PC would be too crap to run it even if it were available? Because I know the console version will not have incredibly draconian DRM if there's any on the PC version? Yes though, sometimes the PC version is just better.

Arnoxthe1:

Strazdas:

Yes, but you would then be buying a cat in a bag. a well advertised cat, but still a cat in a bag. and then you waive your right to complain it didnt met your expectations.

Well yes, modding on consoles are pretty much nonexistant, so you have to suffer extortoinate map packs due to console folk not making modding support. basically you got to suffer for buying a console.
I mean dont take offence but if modding is important to you why would you buy a console version to begin with?

I'm not saying you should preorder every game, but for games that you just KNOW are going to be good like Skyrim or Halo 3 or GTA V, then preordering is hardly ever a cat in a bag. And if it didn't meet my expectations, well, I can always sell it.

I don't know about extortionate considering some map packs have some incredibly well-crafted and beautiful maps that would be few and far between in a modding community. Also, with custom content, you got to search for everything. Which isn't really that bad at all but sometimes the really good stuff can fly right past you without you even noticing. And ESPECIALLY if there's a lot of content out there for a game like Unreal Tournament for example.

As to why I'd buy a console version... Because a certain game may not be available for PC? Because my PC would be too crap to run it even if it were available? Because I know the console version will not have incredibly draconian DRM if there's any on the PC version? Yes though, sometimes the PC version is just better.

you never KNOW game is going to be good. You expect it to be good from what you heard. People expected Aliens game to be good. see how that turned out. Also funny you mention Halo since i think Halo is one of the worst games out there. Preordering is always a cat in a bag. buying a game without knowing whats the product is a guess work. granted, guesswork with some background info but still guesswork.
I have seen better maps for free from modders than mappacks from official developers so i would disagree. and they even charge money for it. Yes, needing to find stuff is a minus, but same is woth DLC, excelt that with DLC you have less to choose from. and we now have variuos websites that sort it out pretty well.
Btw do people still actually play unreal tournament? thats one well supported game then.

In a perfect world you would not buy the console version making developer take a loss while asking them for PC version and they would either get it or go out of business. This aint no perfect world though, and you will contoinue suppot bad developer decisions by giving them money.
If you spent as much on PC gaming as you did on console gaming, bad PC problem would not exist. PC is inherently larger initial investment with cheaper use later on. ANd seeing how consoles bottleneck games for 8 years or 10 (thats what MS says), you wont need to update it often at all.
COnsoles wont have draconian DRM, like the one AdBox tried to implement?

I never even bothered getting season passes. And as for DLC, if the game's good, I'll buy the DLC. If it's shit, than I won't get the DLC.

Battlefield 4 is a disgusting mess. It's 45-55 up front and THEN it asks for an additional 40 for a 'premium membership'. That's 95! Do you know what i can get on Steam for 95?! On top of that there seems to be item packages called 'battle packs' (much like TF2 crates) that seem geared towards a microstansation environment.

Seems like BF4 is becoming another 'pay to unlock' game or even a 'pay to win' game as well as being another 45+ overpriced AAA game and a DLC whore. All they need now is some shitty DRM and the cycle is complete.

Battenberg:

Vault Citizen:
This is why I'm glad I didn't buy the Last of Us Season Pass. I did think about it to support the game but after they said what the DLC would be it turned out that I only wanted to buy one DLC item that would be sold as part of the season pass.

Campaign DLC by any chance? That's the case for me. As great as TLoU's multiplayer is I bought the game for the single player story, that's what I want more of, not extra maps/ guns for multiplayer.

OT: I don't think season passes are bad/ should go, I think they're just badly implemented. The way they're currently arranged there is no way I would ever buy a season pass before every single piece of DLC it covered had been released for all the reasons Jim said HOWEVER with the correct set of cirumstances I might.

The simplest thing developers could do is give precise (and guaranteed) release dates and at least a rough description of every piece of DLC covered by the season pass and promise that the price of the season pass and all DLC items won't change for a minimum period e.g. until 6-12 months after the final piece of DLC has been released. This would do two things: give customers certainty about what it is they're buying and when they can expect to receive it (something that is generally expected with any other purchase) AND ensure that the season pass will remain good value for a reasonable period. As Jim said it's ridiculous to suggest people should give a company money for something that does not yet exist. Until the developers have at least a rough idea of the DLC they'll make and present a solid schedule for it they shouldn't be taking people's money, even Kickstarter offers this level of assurance. The second thing they could do is, in addition to making it better value than buying DL seperately, include exclusive content. Not neccessarily anything so exceptional that players without a season pass will feel excluded, just a gesture to reward customer loyalty, preferably from the moment they buy the season pass; it could even be something as simple as extra player skins. And finally, and this is the part that will take the most time and effort, the triple A devs putting these season passes out need to earn back the trust and respect of their audience by showing that they care about customer satisfaction and not just their profit margins.

Just my two cents and no doubt other people may disagree but I do think season passes could be good for both the gaming business and the customers if they were implemented better.

My. thoughts exactly, there isn't anything I really dislike about the multiplayer, I just didn't get draw.n into it and it isn't something I want to pay to get more of.

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