Zero Punctuation: Beyond: Two Souls

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KDR_11k:
Actually ten years ago Valve was bragging about the facial animations in Half Life 2.

They were bragging about lots of possibilities offered by source but they made a good game in the process so 'yay^^' for them.

I'm so glad Yahtzee ripped David Cage a new asshole with this review. David Cage makes unique games, sure. But unique doesn't mean good. He's a talentless man who couldn't make it in the movie industry.

Yahtzee should review WOLFAMONGOUS.
I'm sure he would just LOVE the DEEP AND INVOLVED GAEME MEKANIKS.

I haven't played Beyond: Two Souls yet, but it seems to me that David Cage's games are always love-it-or-hate-it.

And since I enjoyed Heavy Rain, and thought Indigo Prophecy was pretty neato... I'm sure I'll enjoy this one.

Unless it's like so bad that not even David Cage fans like it.

I'd gauge that Yahtzee really earned his wage for this sage Cage Page rage.

Mr_Terrific:
@the people that have actually played the game

You're right, it's not as bad as the people that hate David Cage make it out to be.

Lastly, TWD has the same amount of not actual gameplay gameplay and everyone eats that shit up. Perhaps I'm the only one that could give a shit about the girl or what everyone else raves about but the game is just not that good. *everyone notices or didn't notices this comment*

I don't hate David Cage, but the game does have severely glaring faults, not the least of which are it's awful controls.

The Walking Dead, unlike Beyond, had more fully developed characters (not just Clementine) that didn't overact or cry every five minutes in order to define themselves. Jodie has no personality outside of being shy and sad, and for that matter, no one else in the game was anything more than their character archetypes. The Walking Dead was a low-budget game with a story and characters that are far more fleshed out, despite not having the technology afforded to Quantic Dream.

Yeah, Ellen's second imaginary friend the camera was a definite pain in the ass. It's pretty sad when one of the hardest tasks in the game is navigating her apartment to try and clean it but you can't because the camera keeps swinging around at random and the direction she's walking changes with it. I wanted Aiden to spend less time trying to stop Jodie and more time trying to stop the fucking camera, but of course the bastard was probably working with the camera.

It apears to only have made a good rap song,otherwise its a pile of roten pickle juice?

Fine by me,it didnt even seem like much to begn with.
Looks like The Stanley Parable but way worst...

I wish I could make a David Cage impression that's as good as Jim Sterling's for this...

Is David Cage just Hideo Kojima but with all the flashes of narrative genius cut out, essentially leaving just a nice concept that quickly disintegrates into nonsense?

teh_gunslinger:
The only one of those I've seen was Inception it seems. Can't say I cared one bit for the pile of sophmoric blather so it's a bit of a blur to me, aside from Edith Piaf. Even Nolans inane movies can't ruin Edith Piaf. Was Ellen Page that girl who was like some sort of wizard kid the Leonardo found at some school?

Yeah, she played Ariadne, the character named for the greek goddess associated with mazes and labyrinths. Who then spent a decent bit of time building mazes and labyrinths. A bit on the nose, but it's not like Araidne is a particularly well known deity.

yclatious:
It apears to only have made a good rap song,otherwise its a pile of roten pickle juice?

Fine by me,it didnt even seem like much to begn with.
Looks like The Stanley Parable but way worst...

How can you hate on the Stanley Parable? It's at least clever at times. Personally I got a kick out of the red door ending, which I expect to be one that Yahtzee will comment on if he ever does the game. It's just needlessly cruel to the Narrator.

As much as I'd love to have unrestricted access to Ellen Page's body one day, I dont think I'll buy this game. Too many other things on the horizon for my hard earned wages I'm afraid.

Proverbial Jon:

Piecewise:

DVS BSTrD:
I'm starting to wonder if David Beige has ever actually talked to a real woman before.

This review is actually a lot like trying to play through any of David Beige's games: Soul crushing.

Did you know that before going to talk to Ellen Page about appearing in his very shitty game that he compiled a massive scrapbook of pictures of her as a child he found on the internet? And that he took it with him to their interview.

http://www.lazygamer.net/general-news/david-cage-went-crazy-for-ellen-page/

This makes the fact that he actually rendered her model completely naked and extremely detailed for the shower scene all the creepier.

Then again, his last female character spent the entire game appealing to a variety of fetishes and saying "you go girl" to herself so we didn't have very far to fall.

I did not know about that. I mean, seriously, that's serial killer behaviour.

I was on the fence for a while about buying this game. But when I saw a brief clip of naked rendered Ellen Page on Youtube I was like: nope! I couldn't believe he hyped the game up for having such a "famous actress" only to reduce her to just another one of his sexy fan-wank renders. Now we know why he truly wants all those polygons.

His portrayal of women is absolutely appalling; naive at best and downright disgusting at worst. It's more akin to the daydreaming machinations of a young teenager's perverted mind. The fact that he based his entire game around nothing more than images of an actress he didn't even know says a lot about the game and the way his mind works.

As a woman, I am so very, very, very annoyed by comments like yours.

For once, I get a game in which I feel I actually am in the shoes of a female such a myself, and not in the shoes of some sexed-up male fantasy blowup doll. And now you come to say this game is soooo totally full of disgusting fetish.

Because really.... Catherine, Bayonetta, Ivy, they're all realistic women and not pandering fetishes. Let's be horrified by Jodie! She even dresses like a normal lady, and even dares to kiss boys! How does she dare to not pander to my entitled male privilege fantasies? She's an awful female character!

As for the photos of Ellen Page as a child. I would have done the exact same thing. When I'm developing a game which shows the main character as a child for an important part of the it, and I have to choose an actress for the role, I would definitely look up images of that person as a child. And then show them to the actress in the interview, while discussing her role.

This soooo makes me some kind of pervert fetishist, is it? Even if I'm a straight woman.

Then again, maybe I shouldn't get so pissed. After all, hate talk like this comes exactly from the game daring to stir up issues. It's the same reason you see so many people hating on anyone who calls out on gender issues.

shogunblade:

I'm just saying when the majority and I agree (for whatever my opinion is worth based on the demo I played), That doesn't make me want to pick up that game to try to assume they are just wrong.

Funny, because "majority" is a relative thing. You see, here in Italy, we're praising this game like a masterpiece. The Italian reviews websites praise it, and so do the comments. And so do my friends who got the game.

Then I come into the internet, and I enter a reverse reality of Americans, who hate this game.

Mr_Terrific:
I don't mind bad reviews but why do they all go on and on about David Cage as if he and he alone made the game. It just shows bias to be honest. If you don't like Cage, don't review his shit. Easy.

@the people who watched gameplay videos

Don't be stupid. It's not that type of game.

@the people that have actually played the game

You're right, it's not as bad as the people that hate David Cage make it out to be.

Lastly, TWD has the same amount of not actual gameplay gameplay and everyone eats that shit up. Perhaps I'm the only one that could give a shit about the girl or what everyone else raves about but the game is just not that good. *everyone notices or didn't notices this comment*

Mr_T, you're being a bit unreasonable.

Reviews aren't bias, they are opinions, based on experiences.

Just as you don't like The Walking Dead, but do like Beyond: Two Souls. There are people who happen to like The Walking Dead, but not Beyond: Two Souls.

It's not because they hate David Cage. They just didn't enjoy the game.
Some people did. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_nyNvq7ESo
And some people didn't. http://www.destructoid.com/review-beyond-two-souls-263180.phtml

No one is "right".

As for me?

I haven't played either game, so I couldn't really say.
Heard good and bad things about both though.

Someone in Hollywood needs to give Cage a job writing and directing straight to video movies so he'll stop mucking up the gaming sphere.

To all game makers out there, if your game idea is 50% or more little films instead of game play, it ISN'T a game. Do everyone a favor and get the fuck out of the industry.

Psychobabble:
Someone in Hollywood needs to give Cage a job writing and directing straight to video movies so he'll stop mucking up the gaming sphere.

To all game makers out there, if your game idea is 50% or more little films instead of game play, it ISN'T a game. Do everyone a favor and get the fuck out of the industry.

Or you could, you know, just don't buy the game and stop telling others what they should or shouldn't consider a videogame.

Because hey, one videogame like this every three years is totally clogging the market, isn't it? So you should complain. It's not like with first person shooters, who are so rare!

So the thrust of this review seems to be that this movie isn't the best video game ever. Makes sense, in that light.

VanQ:
The thing that struck me about this game is it's almost exactly the game that Sarkeesian asked for. Less like a game and more like a movie. And what gameplay there is, make it easy as fuck. It even has a female protagonist. Dunno if I was the only one that noticed this but I expect to hear her gushing about it any day now.

It seems like you really had to force it to make this review an opportunity to insult Ms. Sarkeesian.

I know that no one is still reading the comments by the time we are up to 3 pages, but I have to say that "Despite Ellen Page I'm still just a rat in a cage" is my new favorite ZP quote. :)

JimB:
So the thrust of this review seems to be that this movie isn't the best video game ever. Makes sense, in that light.

Well, this, I think, it's a good way to put it.

It's a good interactive story. It's like a movie that lasts ten times the amount of a normal movie, plus it has you interact with it to change the ending. I like it, especially since movies nowadays are so soulless that you need to turn out to videogames like this to enjoy a new inventive story that isn't a remake, a reboot or a sequel.

Yes, if you come here to expect challenging gameplay, go play Demon's Souls. But does this make Beyond inferior? No, because it offers what it's set to offer: a good interactive story.

Seems to me certain reviewers are too close minded to understand that, and criticize the game only on account of the limited gameplay it offers. It's like criticizing a book because you can't listen music with it.
Then again, those same reviewers who love gameplay so much are those who will high-score a TellTale game or even a mmorpg (which are the real scum of gameplay).

In Search of Username:
Is David Cage just Hideo Kojima but with all the flashes of narrative genius cut out, essentially leaving just a nice concept that quickly disintegrates into nonsense?

He's Hideo Kojima without the flashes of narrative and gameplay genius. So basically the only two things they have in common is the fact that they're both males in gaming industry.

Adam Jensen:

In Search of Username:
Is David Cage just Hideo Kojima but with all the flashes of narrative genius cut out, essentially leaving just a nice concept that quickly disintegrates into nonsense?

He's Hideo Kojima without the flashes of narrative and gameplay genius. So basically the only two things they have in common is the fact that they're both males in gaming industry.

Well yes, also that. I was comparing them because they're both kinda pervy and both seem to be unable to write dialogue that sounds anything like actual people talking to each other.

I love Kojima though, don't get me wrong.

VanQ:
The thing that struck me about this game is it's almost exactly the game that Sarkeesian asked for. Less like a game and more like a movie. And what gameplay there is, make it easy as fuck. It even has a female protagonist. Dunno if I was the only one that noticed this but I expect to hear her gushing about it any day now.

Wh... when did she say she wanted any of that other than the female protagonist bit?

erttheking:
All right I'm just gonna come right out and say it. With the exception of all the controversy around the Last of Us and this game, I have no fraking idea who the fuck Ellen Page is. Can someone please tell me what the big broo ha ha is? How come so many people love her and how come so many people here hate her?

I honestly didn't know she was so popular down south. I've followed her career for a while but only because I'm Canadian and loved the Canadian show Regenesis which she was on when she was younger (anyone else actually see that show? Its goddamned brilliant!). She was also on the show Trailer Park Boys (also Canadian) but I'm not a fan of that show. Also, Hard Candy is one of my favourite movies ever and I think its her best movie by far in terms of acting. I would recommend it to anyone.

Knowing that Yathzee has a long established hate-boner for pretty much every game and genre that doesn't fit his Grand Unified Theory of "optimal" story/gameplay ratio, I would take it with a grain of salt whether the story is actually bad, or just doesn't fit certain expectations about precisely what extent of gameplay is the only one able to maximize fun.

OuendanCyrus:
Even though I didn't enjoy Heavy Rain too much, I definitely prefer that over Beyond. I agree with Yahtzee with every criticism he has with the game, and more.

Funny how everyone just calls Jodie "Ellen Page" now, they just can't be arsed. =p
See what you've done, David Cage?

(Still think Omikron: The Nomad Soul is Quantic Dream's best game)

Ah good ol' Omikron. Why did people forget about that game. It's synopsis was just so silly. "You pass your soul through a computer screen in order to save other gamers from having their souls taken by murderous demons in this cyberpunk setting, is a cross between a fighting game, an FPS and an Adventure game. Please take medication for every hour of gameplay"

rhodo:

Psychobabble:
Someone in Hollywood needs to give Cage a job writing and directing straight to video movies so he'll stop mucking up the gaming sphere.

To all game makers out there, if your game idea is 50% or more little films instead of game play, it ISN'T a game. Do everyone a favor and get the fuck out of the industry.

Or you could, you know, just don't buy the game and stop telling others what they should or shouldn't consider a videogame.

Because hey, one videogame like this every three years is totally clogging the market, isn't it? So you should complain. It's not like with first person shooters, who are so rare!

What we should really get annoyed at is those 'games' which are just you walking down corridors getting story every now and then. THOSE really do need to be cleansed, especially since their beginning to become popular with indie devs.

rhodo:
Looks like nobody plays videogames for emotions anymore. Just for the shooting.

Is Beyond: Two Souls disappointing in its gameplay? Oh yes, VERY disappointing.

Is Beyond: Two Souls satisfying in its story and emotions it can convey? Oh yes, VERY much so.

People play stuff like Japanese visual novels all the time, and what we have here is - a much, much, muuuch higher budget visual novel, with a more serious plot.

I absolutely loved Heavy Rain because it had excellent characters and atmosphere. I didn't even care the gameplay was so very simple. I like Beyond: Two Souls a lot, but it does feel less effective in its narration than Heavy rain was.

Hey, people loved Dragon's Lair, and still do, since they keep re-releasing it. And Dragon's Lair gameplay sucks. But it's a game with a very high quality and an excellent artistic value and.... gameplay or not, it's very entertaining.

Heck, people play mmorpg and those things have a much worse gameplay than David Cage's games, and they don't even have a compelling story or excellent graphics attached to it.

In short: I understand the shortcomings of David Cage's videogames, and I realize they're not even quite videogames. But I still prefer to play Beyond: Two Souls than yet another generic shooter.

Majority of this video was him saying the STORY and ATMOSPHERE was garbage, and the characters were poorly written, like most David Cage games. He mentioned he wanted gameplay because at least that would be better then a poorly told story. Those visual novels everyone plays? They generally have good story if people are playing it. It doesn't get 'better' because there is no gameplay.

So the game is as bland as porridge, it has naked people in It and still sucks. I'll just stick with Saints Row 4 then.

I see nothing wrong with a game doing all the things Yahtzee is criticising here. What worries me about B:TS is the marketing campaign, not only how it has omitted details about what the game really is like, but, more importantly, because it is yet another case of game publishers trying to push this idea that games should aspire to be like movies.

I like Ellen Page, and as such, I'll watch her movies, thank you very much.

Again, it's OK that movie-ish games exist. But enough with trying to sell them as the future of gaming.

*mock David Cage voice* But Yahtzee it has emotions.

Vale:
Yahtzee should review WOLFAMONGOUS.
I'm sure he would just LOVE the DEEP AND INVOLVED GAEME MEKANIKS.

Someone sounds bitter,

Also yes, he would, because the decisions in that game are dotted around the story that have a lot of impact (and are also timed), so they are more involving and deep(especially the more morally nebulous ones).

Casual Shinji:

This is literally the game for Ellen Page fanboys. There's Carrie Ellen Page, Commando Ellen Page, Goth Ellen Page, Hobo Ellen Page, Bald Psych Ward Ellen Page, and Native-American Ellen Page.

But no mad scientist-Ellen Page?

BOO! It's like no game company feels like catering to my preferences.

Well, I'll always have GLaDOS and my fanfiction about her.

Y'know, am I the only one who notices that practically EVERY designer who goes on about wanting to write great stories or bashes video game writing in general are probably the least qualified to say that? Cage rails against games for their stories, but his games have TERRIBLE narratives and tepid dialogue. Another example of this is Antoniades over at Ninja Theory who constantly brags about his narrative talents despite A) having HIRED other writers to write his games for him and B) when he finally DID write a script himself it was a goddamned, pretentious mess. And of course then there's Rhiana Pratchett, who is a writer instead of a designer but is very...average. She's not terrible, but she clearly didn't inherit her father's talent as a writer. The irony is PAINFUL.

What annoyed me particularly about the game, was that besides Nathan(Willem Dafoe) none of the characters changed all that much(well, maybe that soldier guy): Jodie had no character arc, and she is exactly the same as she was when she was a child, by the end of the game.

The writing is also flimsy (I feel like my ears are being grated when I hear the sentence "Ever since I was born, I've been linked to an entity" also the seance sections where she acts as a conduit for dead people).

That said though, this is quite a consistent game (aside from the asian-french bad guys and the "GUVERNMENT IZ EVIL!1!" nonsense), second to only Heavy Rain, and the sections that stood out the most for me (and I feel for other people) were the more realistic ones.

I wish that Cage had an editor, so that he would make more grounded, consistent stories, as that is what he is good at(see: Heavy Rain, beginning of Farenheit), not spiraling off into nonsense.

canadamus_prime:
*mock David Cage voice* But Yahtzee it has emotions.

I would love to see Cah-jay defend himself using Metacritic now (like how he did w/ Heavy Rain)

That'd be maladroit.

His Hobo-Love actually started way back in Fahrenheit, when he pulled a Hobo-Rebel-Force out of his ass to fight the mayans and the internet, 5 minutes before the ending.

Also obligatory "X is a failure of the game designer"-joke here.

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