Day-One DLC Files Appear on Mass Effect 3 Discs

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The.Bard:

zinho73:
Bioware statement was misleading - on porpouse. They've tried to put out the fire with a vague response. They should have said:

Guys, most of our DLC is planned in conjunction with the game, so we can better integrate things (when the DLC is developed is irrelevant). This time we decided that a Day 1 DLC was a good idea, since the content was ready (and a good part of it was already in the disc).

It is greedy as hell, but I respect much more a straightforward answer than beating around the bush PR.

Eh, I haven't seen anything that would convince me they were intentionally misleading. As much as people seem to think otherwise, they don't owe us a day-by-day accounting of what is on the disc and what isn't, and whether things cut from the game during normal development were later fleshed out or removed.

This isn't a consumer rights issue, this isn't being given a hamburger and being told extra money is required to get the bun. It boils down to THIS:


We as consumers then have TWO OPTIONS TO PICK FROM. ONLY TWO:
--------------------

The people around here complaining as if they are entitled to get it without paying is a bit silly. Companies can do WHATEVER THEY WANT as long it isn't illegal. Generally speaking, they tend to avoid doing things that hurt their chances of getting your money. If they wanted to make Commander Shepard into a chicken, THEY CAN. The reason they don't is it hurts their longterm financials in a big way.

So at the end of the day, y'all, stop bitching in the forums and stop giving them your money. THAT is how you respond to this. It's the ONLY way to respond to this.

FIGHTING IN FORUMS IS POINTLESS.

I really don't understand what the fuss is about. If you think this is a bad move by EA/Bioware, EASY! [b]Don't buy it and let those who are ok buying it enjoy it in peace.

I don't think I'm entitled to nothing and I think EA has every right to adopt whichever business model they want. I'm just saying that EA brought that to themselves.

$10,00 Day1 DLC is not something cool. Day1 DLC with a character important to the lore of the series is even worse. Failing to talk to the fans in a straightforward manner about the subject is amateurish and a poor marketing decision. They do not own us any explanation, but if they are going to explain something, they better be smart about it (maybe even completely honest) or they are just adding wood to the fire.

And, yes, fighting about this is foolish, but discussing those issues in the foruns is good and might be even useful if it makes a developer think twice about milking us in every opportunity.

In any case, managing a beloved franchise is no easy task, as fans can be a rabid bunch, but EA is really approaching the problems from all the wrong angles. I understand that forcing Origin on people is a business decision they "had" to make, but not including the DLC in the Collector Edition and giving it for free would probably cost less than some adds they made and would have a much better result, building good-will towards the company for the future.

Leftnt Sharpe:
Can one of the incredibly knowledgeable and well informed people in this thread please enlighten me, as to what the 567.2MB file titled 'From Ashes' I just downloaded contained?

Most probably, you have the character on disk and downloaded the mission (and the other stuff like the new looks).

zinho73:

I don't think I'm entitled to nothing and I think EA has every right to adopt whichever business model they want. I'm just saying that EA brought that to themselves.

$10,00 Day1 DLC is not something cool. Day1 DLC with a character important to the lore of the series is even worse. Failing to talk to the fans in a straightforward manner about the subject is amateurish and a poor marketing decision. They do not own us any explanation, but if they are going to explain something, they better be smart about it (maybe even completely honest) or they are just adding wood to the fire.

Sorry, only my first sentence was really a direct response to you. Then I got myself sidetracked on a tangential thought... you know how it goes. 8/

I agree with you here. If EA/Bioware wanted to go above and beyond, they could have gone into specific detail and hope that would cool off the detractors. I doubt it, but certainly, they could have extended more given how much the internet was already out for their blood. But ultimately, they aren't beholden to do that, and there's where the market works itself out. If the fan backlash hits them in the moneypurse, then they'll change real fast. So if 90% of the world thinks Day 1 DLC is wrong, we need to make sure 90% of the world isn't buying it. If enough people "hold the line," it will go away.

And, yes, fighting about this is foolish, but discussing those issues in the foruns is good and might be even useful if it makes a developer think twice about milking us in every opportunity.

I so so so very much agree with you. Sadly, the issue (by and large) isn't being discussed here. Those not in favor of the DLC are outraged, claiming they are being sold a partial product, and that people who DO support Day 1 DLC are either stupid or "Biodrones." By and large (not all), they aren't discussing this as reasonable people. They are coming to the table with "THIS IS WRONG. I AM ENTITLED TO THAT DLC FOR FREE BECAUSE *some piece of it* WAS ON THE DISC. I THINK THAT CHARACTER IS IMPORTANT, AND I AM ANGRY UNTIL IT IS GIVEN TO ME FOR FREE. GRR."

Not only is that NOT the way to get your point across, it's judgmental, and in my estimation, a completely wasteful use of good energy. It's an attack on people like me - who fully support Day 1 DLC if it is truly beyond the game's original scope - and it rings hollow. EA WON'T give you that for free when 40% of Gamestop buyers bought the DLC. Losing our cool in the complaints is pointless. We need to vote with your wallets and accept what happens without crucifying those of us who are completely ok with this process. At some point, anti-dlc people need to say "I guess I'm just not buying it, and that is that."

The thing some people are failing to realize is this isn't a case of "GAME + DLC Included" or "GAME + DLC For $10". It's a case of "GAME + DLC for $10" or "GAME without the content that was cut during production."

But again, that's all based on the assumption that EA/Bioware didn't lie. (I still firmly hold to the thought that voice files on the disc are nowhere near sufficient evidence to say they lied.)

In any case, managing a beloved franchise is no easy task, as fans can be a rabid bunch, but EA is really approaching the problems from all the wrong angles. I understand that forcing Origin on people is a business decision they "had" to make, but not including the DLC in the Collector Edition and giving it for free would probably cost less than some adds they made and would have a much better result, building good-will towards the company for the future.

Again, I agree with you. I think EA's marketing/PR involvement in most situations is almost as heavy handed and impotent as the people shouting on these forums. You seem like a very reasonable person and I wish that more people were willing to convey their opinions without pitchforks and megaphones.

Heck, if people were level headed enough to post a thoughtful, well written reponse to EA and got several thousand signatures on it, they just might be moved into giving the DLC for free. But I'm sure the chances of both of those happening in this universe are slimmer than Al Jhilani's chances of surviving ME3 without a punch to the face. ;D

wiredhuman:

EcksTeaSea:

So entitled.

I am entitled to the worth of my money.
If you can allow yourself to throw your cash around like nothing, be my guest. Just dont tell me I have to too.

Never did I say you have to buy it, but if you want it buy it then. Also entitled to the worth of your money? This massive easily 10+ hour game filled with many different characters, decent dialouge, good combat, a giant world that you can explore, and a massive three game story that ties it all up isn't worth that $60 ($70 if you buy the DLC) because its missing a single character? Okay then, if you say so. I would like to see you make something that is worth my $60 then.

RedEyesBlackGamer:
Heaven forbid consumers look out for their own interests.

Not quite sure what you mean exactly. I don't see insane pitchforking like this when DLC is released at a later date, but when its day one its suddenly some major violation? God forbid you shell out $10 extra on the first day that people would have most likely anyways later down the line.

The.Bard:

Chunga the Great:
Oh gee, what a fucking surprise.

Seriously, did ANYONE actually believe BioWare when they said that it was developed after the rest of the game?

But it won't make a difference, because the BioWare fanboys will just shell out the cash. Watch how in 2 years this will become normal.

The voice files being on the disc is not proof Bioware lied. They said they developed it after the game. They didn't say after the game shipped or that no piece of it wasn't on the disc already.

It took me about 15 mins to download the dlc on my 360, so a good chunk of this was NOT on the disc. Maybe we wait for a reply from Bioware before chucking stones around?

The judgment going on around here is borderline hilarious. I guess this is what we get from the Fox News Generation.... accusations = facts.

That may be true, but they may have also just decided to release it as Day One DLC, then removed the code and some of the files that involve it in an attempt to save face when launch day came and people took the game apart. And what will they say when they do make a statement? "Oh yeah we totally tried to milk you guys lol no hard feelings?" They will deny it, which is why we cant take what they say as true. There is no way they decided once the game was almost finished to add in a whole new character, design that character, do the voice work, design the quests, test for bugs, then work it into the plot.

So Biowear planned out their DLC in advance? ....Nope, still don't give a crap. I honestly believe if they planned it as DLC then what doea it matter if they worked on it at time X or Y. Should all creative thought be shackled during development and delayed for 3 months after launch? Should all content that potentially would be DLC immediately be rejected and thrown in a bin to gather dust for a year so people can stop giving a crap about the game first? DO developers suddenly sell their should to customers when the game begins and swear that everything they do will benefit the customer? When did game development go from a business where people can follow any path they like, include suboptimal paths where they develop future DLC concurrently with the main game degraded in the quality as a whole but doing so as their own chose, to a fascist state where only the way that uninformed forums goers think is right is the the correct path? I don't give two shits when they developed the DLC or how. I don't care if they were trying to milk their game. I don't care how much you want to whine about it. I think the company has the right to make whatever stupid decisions it wants and arguing that its somehow morally wrong is dumb. Let's address this from an economics standpoint or something or at least change the philosophical topic because harping on this in the same tone forever is bugging the crap out of me.

You know, after looking at some detailed youtube videos of From Ashes, tbh, if I was given the CE for free I probably wouldn't activate the DLC for my main playthrough.

The quality of it is pretty shoddy when you consider that they introduced A LIVING PROTHEAN to the mass effect universe who adds no real value to the plot. Much of the DLC narrative is poorly written and poorly voiced (some dialougue seems very halting and awkward). Flashbacks within the mission hint that the new character may be important to the main conflict, but ultimately he becomes just another largely souless cliche, like Zaeed or Kasumi. He offers no real input into the fight against the Reapers, and his dismissive quips, while occasionally funny, are never really all that interesting. There is a fair bit of backstory surrounding the Protheans, but even Liara can't get any detailed information out of the guy. Don't expect a living, breathing Vigil.

In my personal playthrough of ME3, I would rather it be "canon" that ALL protheans are dead rather than introduce such a weak character...just as I did not include Zaeed and Kasumi in my ME2 playthrough. Shoddy characters just muddy the whole experience.

EA ruins everything. Wow, that really makes me sound like a whiny idiot. EA, stop making me be Superboy-Prime.

The.Bard:

anthony87:
Oh Christ....Zeel is gonna have a field day if/when he returns.

It's funny, I heard this loud, blood-curdlingesque scream a few minutes ago. It sounded very far away, but also very close. As if it had traveled many miles borne upon the wind. And the timestamp on this post checks out to when I heard the scream...

It must have been Zeel!

I hope he doesn't have an Atlas in his garage, or this is what his neighborhood will look like tonight:

image
DAY ONE! ON DISC! RARRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!

He was right all along. All I'd expect from him is an I told you so.

Incredible. I haven't thought it was possible but Bioware just hit a new low.

Capcom low.

Keep impressing me Bioware.

Also, to almost everybody using the words "gamer entitlement", entitled and entitle:

image

Zer_:

He was right all along. All I'd expect from him is an I told you so.

Likethat's going to stop anyone from berating him or blowing his potential response out of proportion.

You know, I fucking told you guys.
And every one of you (slight hyperbole) bitched at me for being suspicious and calling their bull shit.
Well fuck you, I was right. Different budget my ass.

This is good news for me. If it's on the disc that means I already own it. And I can use ANY MEANS I want to access it.

EcksTeaSea:

Never did I say you have to buy it, but if you want it buy it then. Also entitled to the worth of your money? This massive easily 10+ hour game filled with many different characters, decent dialouge, good combat, a giant world that you can explore, and a massive three game story that ties it all up isn't worth that $60 ($70 if you buy the DLC) because its missing a single character? Okay then, if you say so. I would like to see you make something that is worth my $60 then.

- Never did I say you have to buy it, but if you want it buy it then.

Its the last part of a trilogy, 2 parts of which I already own. I want the game. If I want the game I have to buy it.
But I wont pay 70 bucks for it.

- Also entitled to the worth of your money? This massive easily 10+ hour game filled with many different characters, decent dialouge, good combat, a giant world that you can explore, and a massive three game story that ties it all up isn't worth that $60 ($70 if you buy the DLC) because its missing a single character?

No. Im saying this a bit under 10 hours game filled with different characters using all the same models, alright dialogue containing hints on cut out dialogue choices, mediocre combat I am willing to cope with, a seemingly giant world that you can scan while running from reapers, and a story that does not tie anything up because my choices in the previous games did not matter jack shit in the end isn't worth that $60 partually because its missing a vital part to the understanding of the gameŽs lore.
The only reason it isnt in the retail game is the deadline. You dont demand 10$ for something you had to cut out to meet your deadlines.
"Hey i didnt have emough time to complete your chair, so the pads are 10 bucks extra."
What would you say to someone presenting you something like that? YouŽd say FUCK YOU, and never return to that store, and you sure as hell tell everyone you know to never go there.

Its also the lazy stock photo crap.
Its also the missing textures in a part of the game.
Its also presenting me game that disregards choices from the previous games entirely, one of which being Legion and his potential replacement, or Liara canonically being the Shadowbroker, while reassuring me that every single choice matters. See chicken labled "PIG".
This is EAWare insulting my intelligence as a fan of the series.

- Okay then, if you say so. I would like to see you make something that is worth my $60 then.
I am not a team of artist, programmers, and writers. I am a single person. I am not backed by millions of dollars. I would also like to see you making something worth my 60 bucks, because as indicated by your statement, apperently you can.

The.Bard:
FIGHTING IN FORUMS IS POINTLESS.
I really don't understand what the fuss is about. If you think this is a bad move by EA/Bioware, EASY! Don't buy it and let those who are ok buying it enjoy it in peace.

"Fighting in forums" is exactly what people should do, that and bad press generated by controversies like Metacritic, Tali, the DLC etc., including word-of-mouth with your friends is the best way to let other people know of the business practices at play here, every article also helps to raise awareness and damage sales, "shutting up" is amongst the worst things you can actually do if you don't like something.

The.Bard:
THIS is why the bickering is stupid. THIS is why the entitled whining is nothing but wasted energy. Look at the # up there.
40%!!!!
4 out of every 10 people at gamestop DO NOT CARE THAT THE DAY 1 DLC COSTS MONEY. I am curious if that # includes Collector Editions, which bundle the DLC free.

That does include Complete Editions and polling Gamestop customers might not be the "stats" one would want to go after for a proper representation, since a large percentage of their customers don't even realize that buying "Pre-Owned" doesn't let any of the money spent go to the dev and still buy their games in the belief that they are supporting the gaming industry when they're actually supporting Gamestop. It also doesn't say what percentage of those people bought the game "Used" or "New" and thought this was akin to other "Online Passes" they have to pay for instead. It also doesn't state how many of them "DO NOT CARE THAT THE DAY 1 DLC COSTS MONEY", it just states how many supposedly bought it, the rest is conjecture on your part.

But go ahead and troll people more. Also add me as one of the people who not only didn't buy the DLC but didn't buy the entire game either, so they didn't lose 10$(€ actually in my case) but 70€ in total.

Umm... Who cares? So what if there were voice files and some textures on the main disk.

They most likely did the voice over for Javik along with the rest of the cast to save money and to not risk losing the voice actor to scheduling issues.

They most likely did character models and textures during primary production to save time when they did the bulk of the work for the DLC after the game had gone gold.

Lastly, they most likely included parts of the DLC in the game disk to... GASP! Lower the download size of the actual DLC. Who would have thunk...

People are just making a whole lot of whoo-haa out of something, that when you factor in some common sense with a dash of not acting like a entitled jack-***, doesn't really matter.

The game is good. I loved it. It really finished it all up for me. Javik meanwhile was lackluster at best, but then again, so was Zaeed.

Dexter111:
"Fighting in forums" is exactly what people should do, that and bad press generated by controversies like Metacritic, Tali, the DLC etc., including word-of-mouth with your friends is the best way to let other people know of the business practices at play here, every article also helps to raise awareness and damage sales, "shutting up" is amongst the worst things you can actually do if you don't like something.

If the word "constructively" was implicit in the above, I would agree with you. What is happening on this site and elsewhere is tantamount to whining. It's neither constructive nor informative. It's judgmental of those who do support the dlc, it's full of malformed assumptions, and it's really not helping the situation. At all.

That does include Complete Editions and polling Gamestop customers might not be the "stats" one would want to go after for a proper representation, since a large percentage of their customers don't even realize that buying "Pre-Owned" doesn't let any of the money spent go to the dev and still buy their games in the belief that they are supporting the gaming industry when they're actually supporting Gamestop. It also doesn't say what percentage of those people bought the game "Used" or "New" and thought this was akin to other "Online Passes" they have to pay for instead. It also doesn't state how many of them "DO NOT CARE THAT THE DAY 1 DLC COSTS MONEY", it just states how many supposedly bought it, the rest is conjecture on your part.

Given how many people buy at GameStop, it's absolutely a pertinent place to poll. The reason they get it is completely irrelevant, and I'm not conjecturing here. If [40% minus the CE people] got the dlc, then yea, it means they don't mind paying for it. If they opposed Day 1 DLC, they wouldn't have purchased it. There really isn't much gray area in that. If you hate paying for it and you still do, that's irrelevant. You are still supporting the system. Other than coming to a logical conclusion, what about this is conjecture?

But go ahead and troll people more. Also add me as one of the people who not only didn't buy the DLC but didn't buy the entire game either, so they didn't lose 10$(€ actually in my case) but 70€ in total.

Troll? Really dude? There is not a hand in the world big enough for me to put my face into right now, so im just going to sigh in the corner and come back in 10 minutes..

-10 mins later-

Ok, I'm back. So saying that the people who aren't opposed to the dlc have a right to enjoy it in peace is trolling? Go talk to the people rolling around on the floor crying that they were served a hamburger without the bun. I don't care if you bought it. I don't care if you love it. I don't care if you hate it. What I do care about is that we are all given two options. BUY IT. OR DON'T. Whining about it here isn't going to create an option 3.

Higgs303:

The quality of it is pretty shoddy when you consider that they introduced A LIVING PROTHEAN to the mass effect universe who adds no real value to the plot.

Cue "The Simpsons:"

"It's bringing love! Don't let it get away, break it's legs!!!"

Zer_:

The.Bard:

anthony87:
Oh Christ....Zeel is gonna have a field day if/when he returns.

It's funny, I heard this loud, blood-curdlingesque scream a few minutes ago. It sounded very far away, but also very close. As if it had traveled many miles borne upon the wind. And the timestamp on this post checks out to when I heard the scream...

It must have been Zeel!

I hope he doesn't have an Atlas in his garage, or this is what his neighborhood will look like tonight:

image
DAY ONE! ON DISC! RARRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!

He was right all along. All I'd expect from him is an I told you so.

Um, says who? He claimed the DLC was designed with the game and cut out in a complete state so it could be sold separately. I haven't seen anything to prove that is the case.

Many of us theoried the content was cut during normal game production, and further time spent on it was only greenlit only BECAUSE it could generate revenue. Ie - if it wasn't sold for money, it would never have been put into the game in any fashion. Voice files being on the disc does NOT invalidate this as a possibility.

At best, this is a he said / she said argument that nobody is going to come away from "right."

If you trust Bioware, you believe them and that this was truly extra content.

If you don't trust Bioware, you probably think they maliciously went over the final game with pruning shears while twirling a mustache.

And that, folks, is about all of this rigamarole as I can stand. Too much opinion-becomes-fact around here for my taste. So i will not be posting in this thread further unless the conversation actually evolves into a civil... You know what? That's never gonna happen. So I'm just gonna go play this awesome new game I got. I doubt any of you have heard of it, but it's pretty awesome. It's an RPG called Mass Effect 3. I hear it has some dlc, too! XD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRpGlmtws8

I'll just put this here.

Bioware is dead to me.

Dalavita:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRpGlmtws8

I'll just put this here.

Bioware is dead to me.

Ladies and gentleman, I rest my case.

Dalavita:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRpGlmtws8

I'll just put this here.

Bioware is dead to me.

Yeah I saw this earlier today, was about to post it. Ninja'd

Dalavita:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRpGlmtws8
I'll just put this here.

Says it all, doesn't it? Thanks for posting this, or I would have.

Better.

Anyway, all the DLC does it give the mission that you recruit him at. So it's just 600 MB of side missions.

Dalavita:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRpGlmtws8

I'll just put this here.

Bioware is dead to me.

Yes, but do you get the Eden Prime mission?

Is his room on the Engineering deck unlocked (grunts old room) and all associated dialogue options?

Do you get his Bonus Power Dark Channel?

Do you get the scene where Liara rips into him for not telling her something (no spoilers), do you get the scene where Javik asks you to visit him on the Citadel?

Do you get the hundreds of lines of party banter for every mission specific to Javik and each party member in the ENTIRE game?

I'm going to take a wild guess and say no.

aceman67:

Missing the point completely.

Somewhere during development when Javik was complete and tested, the devs cut him out to make a DLC.

Everything else is irrelevant.

I don't know if anyone's considered this yet and I hope to god someone has.

But could the answer not be as simple as MULTIPLAYER.

If anyone wants to use Javik online then everyone else will need those character assets as well.

(Assuming Javik becomes usable online)

wiredhuman:

Somewhere during development when Javik was complete and tested, the devs cut him out to make a DLC.

Everything else is irrelevant.

Where you're definitive proof that this DLC was completed then Cut from the game?

That's right, you don't have any.

EA and Bioware came out and flatly said that because of what the DLC was about that it needed some initial frame work put into the base game, They did it with Zaeed and Kasumi (with Kasumi, you could make a game edit on the PC and use her in the Suicide Mission, yet no one freaked out) a prime example of this is...

HUGE SPOILER
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

When you come back from Thessia where you just found out that the entire Asari culture was manipulated by a Prothean posing as their Goddess, A fact that's even made more poignant [that's a big boy word for "Evoking a keen sense of sadness or regret" if you don't know what it means] by Liara, as brilliant an Archaeologist as she is, not wanting to accept this fact while the evidence is staring her right in the face in the Temple and that Javik didn't say anything, and Liara rips into Javik and you practically have to keep her from doing something that she would regret.

For my first FemShep playthrough, I brought Garrus, you bet your ass I'm bringing Javik for my DudeShep run, or hell, I might just Uninstall From Ashes, or not go and get him entirely, and play through just to see what the games like with out it, and I bet that I won't miss much, because Bioware is good at telling a story.

People are just pissed off because He's a Prothean. Had he been any other race, any other anything for that matter, people wouldn't have a Garrus size stick up their collective anus' about this.

Who the hell cares, I sure as hell don't. Eventhough I bought the N7 edition, I would have still bought From Ashes if I had gotten the normal version. Just buy the DLC, or don't. Its your choice, no one is holding a gun to your head saying you have to play it.

aceman67:

ignorant opinion backed by superiority complexes

I dont need any more proof.

Also, if you dont care, why bother posting?
One shouldnt engage in debates on topics one does not care about.

Grey Day for Elcia:

I'm with Jeff Gerstmen on this one: people don't know how the video games production system works if they have a problem with day one DLC.

I know have video game production works in certain matters. IE, it used to be if a game wasn't developed fully, they would just delay it for another time. Nowadays, they just delay it once and then charge you for everything else they couldn't finish. That doesn't seem so efficient to me. It doesn't even seem necessary.

In fact, there seems to be only one reason that makes sense to me. They can easily call for another pause and give the very valid reason 'We want to make sure you get a whole game'. Mass Effect was already supposed to come out last holiday season. It was paused. Not only did they have the option available to them, they used it. They could have used it again to fit in on the disc.

Now, to my point to the 'I don't care' players.

And please, I really request for someone to answer this, because it's important.

At what point do you start caring. I admit I'm not a designer or even a disc cracker. I don't even have the Mass Effect 3 game to test what this video that my other posters put up. But if it works... I mean, it's damning.

But some people still excuse because it's a game they like. So I ask is liking a game enough to get you past all of the hurdles a game designer puts in your way to actually getting the entire game to enjoy? I liked Mass Effect 1, memories of Mass Effect 1 made me like Mass Effect 2 a little more than I would have. I want to finish the story. But from the beginning, with that stupid Origin play to now, Bioware or EA seems not to care how untrustworthy they seem to us. I will only have given my money or my support to someone who I think earns it. But that is me. What, if any, situations will cause you to pan a game?

wiredhuman:
I dont need any more proof.

Also, if you dont care, why bother posting?
One shouldnt engage in debates on topics one does not care about.

Wow, someone doesn't like being proven wrong.

And you should stop using the word ignorant, it doesn't mean what you think it means. Ignorance implies that one doesn't know, and that isn't the case here. One could say that your knowledge about the meaning of Ignorance is... wait for it... "Ignorant." Thank you, I'll be here all week.

I know full well what the situation is, why people have a Garrus sized stick up their asses, and why it doesn't matter in the long run.

Try replacing the word "Ignorant" with "I find your statement wrong and possibly rude". That might work better, and you know what, I'd be OK with that.

And your reasoning is flawed. If everyone every where didn't debate topics they didn't really care about, we wouldn't have a legal system and this entire society we've built would descend into chaos.

And why shouldn't I post? Because I've chosen to disagree with your view point? Dude, thats the whole point of a Debate: To have two or more groups of people with opposing views and DEBATING a topic. Are you trying to censor any opposition to your view point so that you seem right? Wow, pretty petty course of action if ask me. If you can't handle people opposing your point of view, methinks you should be the one refraining from posting.

And while I don't care about parts of the DLC being on the disc, I do care about people making a big stink and giving the game company flack about something that in the end doesn't matter, especially when the game was excellent otherwise.

The reason you'd have DLC files on a disk, is because you need CODE in the game to attach the DLC to. Coding a game is not simple, especially not adding a new character AFTER development. The only thing you can do with DLC so that it doesn't look like a cheap photoshop job, is to design and code character movements, interaction, and stuff like how they use weapons. So long as you have that base code in the game, they could've made a Chainsaw Juggling Turian In A Miniskirt as future DLC. But when you DON'T have that code in the game, then you need to create/include entirely new areas or exclusive locations that can't be accessed along-with the core game (Take Fallout 3 and New Vegas with their DLC that takes you to entirely new areas, which required them to code entirely new content that is seperate from the main game, yet allows them to stuff in all the things that couldn't be coded with the main game).

aceman67:

Wow, someone doesn't like being proven wrong.

following ad hominem

point me where you proved me wrong, I seem to have missed that part
Im yet to see any proof on anything

wiredhuman:

point me where you proved me wrong, I seem to have missed that part
Im yet to see any proof on anything

You've failed to show any proof to begin with that shows, definitively that the From Ashes DLC was completed before the game went gold (which means ready to ship). And that video doesn't really count since it takes the quote out of context. Bioware was right when they said that the DLC was COMPLETED after the game went gold. Not ONCE did they ever say they didn't work on parts of it during primary production, nor do they have too, and nor do they have to explain themselves to you or anyone else except their shareholders. So unless you own stock in Bioware or EA, your opinion, along with mine and anyone else's on this forum for that matter, means jack.

Its only peoples sense of entitlement mixed with feeling jilted by the ending they don't like that this whole thing has been blown out of proportion.

As I said, I played through the only part of the game that would make the From Ashes DLC where Javik would be considered integral to the game with out Javik in my party. I had Garrus and Liara with me, and you know what, I missed nothing. The story played out just as well without him then having him present.

So kindly take that stick out of your buttocks, Garrus wants it back, he needs to beat people to death with it.

And lastly, You shouldn't be the one talking about 'argumentum ad hominem', since you tried to do the same thing to me saying I shouldn't debate things I don't care about. That my friend, is called hypocrisy.

aceman67:
So unless you own stock in Bioware or EA, your opinion, along with mine and anyone else's on this forum for that matter, means jack.

So you basically admit working for EAWare?
Nice damage control there bud, real nice damage control.
How about you go to metacritic and give your own game a perfect user review?

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