Mass Effect 3 Outrage Causes Unrelated Game to Change its Ending Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 NEXT | |
Oh for fuck's sake, I'm getting tired of people in the industry not even bothering to figure out what the criticism about ME3's ending is all about before insulting the fans. If asking for a developer to spend more than 10 minutes on an ending is asking for the ending to "conform" to what we want, then so be it. You're damn fucking right we don't want an ending that looks like they spent 10 minutes and liberal use of copy/paste to make it just so they could meet a deadline. Simply on a mechanical level it's fucking garbage. | |
Ah, sorry for taking it personal, heh. I was talking mostly about the devs who been talking down gamers for wanting to change the ME3 ending. I don't think a new ending will improve or save ME3 (Don't take me wrong, ME3 itself is a very good game.) I was actually talking about the Bioshock creator and now the guys from frozen synapse. The whole "Devs created this world using their vision, so don't complain if you didn't liked it" thing. Why we can't complain about it, when Star Wars fans have been complaining about what Lucas does to the original trilogy since the remasterization? That's why I said all that. "Whoever bought that game failed as a consumer the second they bought the game without doing proper research. The endings were leaked before the release with people talking about bad they were." Well, you kinda said it there. And it wasn't know if the ending were going to be the ones from the leak, since the leak was months before the game launch. So we didn't knew if the ending really were going to be that way, sou you couldn't judge it. | |
Uh... Wut? I'm not even sure what side they're taking. It seems like a tongue in cheek insult to the Mass Effect 3 ending, and at the same time telling people to "get over it". I'm thinking the latter. And it that's the case, I think it's safe to say they missed the point. | |
Of course they missed the point. That's the whole problem with this bullshit back-and-forth about 'entitlement'. Somewhere along the way, Devs went and got it in their head that they're 'artists'... which is fine and good. I believe that there's an 'art' to everything. But what comes with the label of 'artist' is this smug, condescending "You just don't understand my vision" response whenever someone says that what you made is shit. And let's be honest here, there's a LOT of shit art out there. Sometimes more literal than we'd care to admit. But equally imbecilic is this customer mentality of "Give me what I want or else" that has arisen in the wake of our 'The Customer Is Always Right' marketing strategy from yesteryear. There are a LOT of people out there who really DO only hate the ending because it doesn't end the way that they want, and for them... nothing short of a custom-tailored finishing sequence with all their personalized choices and opinions on full display could ever make them satisfied. But again, let's be honest. That's a VERY SMALL PORTION of the folks who are complaining. In fact, I'd wager to say that you could give EACH of those folks their own shitty piece of artwork (from our global collection of shit art, no less) three times a year, every year, until they died... and we'd STILL have secret underground warehouses of self-enshrining crap art designed by people who just don't 'get' why people hate their work. For most everyone else, it's a lot of the same. Here's why people hate Mass Effect 3's Ending in a Nut-Shell: 1. It grotesquely deformed the plot of the series, throwing out all conventions and themes within it's genre at the VERY END in order to fall back on the most trite of all Sci-Fi cliche's. 2. Blatant lies from the developer regarding the nature of the end of the game. So blatant, in fact, that the FTC has actually received complaints of False Advertising. 3. It's not an ending. It's a cliffhanger, with blatant hooks installed for continued content or series progression. This only works when there is the ASSUMPTION of continued content or progression, where-as this was marketed as the end of a trilogy. 4. Because no matter how many times someone repeats their VERY REASONABLE complaints for why the ending of this game is an atrocious violation of not just the FANS' expectations of what the game should be, but also the LITERARY elements of what make up a good story, some smug bastard who fancies himself an 'artist'... or some troll looking for lulz... snaps back with a "It's sad when a creator's artistic direction is received so negatively, when..." line which never even comes close to addressing the problem. The problem isn't that the ending was bleak. The problem isn't that the ending didn't appeal to us. The problem is that the ending is a nonsensical break from the reality and intensity of the universe. It's a complete Deus ex Machina, revealing in the final moments some divinely inspired being whose logic is too infallible to question or deny, which summarizes itself in presenting to the player three choices of colored bows with which the wrap up all the lose ends and plot holes while never once stopping to explain its own flawed logic. It's a twist ending with no lead-in or causality, created for the sole purpose of glossing over all the questions that never get answered by presenting demi-god logic and a choice of finality. And let me be clear: I don't -want- a different ending. No ending they could cobble together in the coming months can possibly undo the damage done here by whatever executive force thought this was a good idea. But I certainly can understand why some people would. The way they chose to 'end' this series was a disgrace to the entire brand's name. And that's a shame, because the game itself is GREAT. I absolutely loved every second of playing it. | |
That was a bit of a hasty write up admitingly. No, they're not drawing on a picture, neither is this about a single person, but rather a horde of angry gamers. It still strikes me as odd when I try to picture all these people who've been defending games as art (I realize all those angry gamers don't feel this way) try to have this ending changed. Isn't that against what they stand for? I personally wouldn't be bothered if they changed the ending. Colour me weird, but what would bother me is if they added a fairy tale ending. The ending I'm sure the more derpy part of those who want it changed would like. That ending would be worse than what we have. Plenty of these gamers raise very valid points though. More closure would've been nice for example. I can't really recall any situation where this much fuss has been made to alter something, whether it's a movie, a game or maybe even a book? Perhaps that is why people play such..Uh. Cards. Of course, I'm not really a very active person, considering the Escapist is one of the few sources I go to even skim worldly news. I'm such a basement dweller. Alter does not mean add onto of course. Changing an event in X is what I'm talking about here. Retconning, if you will. I guess that's what I'm finding silly here. If they decided to expand onto the ending, I'd probably even welcome it with open arms and money. | |
Those idiots. Well, consider Mode 7 on my blacklist of game developers. They couldn't pay me to play their games. | |
I had the exact same reaction, nice stuff guys! The response to the me3 has been hilarious. People gve money to ea expecting to be treated like consumers? | |
That's hilarious! We're supposed to be laughing at how blatantly they missed the point right? And we may be fans but we're also consumers. And you can talk about artistic integrity until the cows come home but you have to: A: Make something that's artistic to begin with, as much as I don't mind endingtron 9000's as long as they include your actions leading up to it. That's not very artistic, ME3's especially for the aforementioned lack of actions on the players part mattering it's pretty much the opposite of a well told game narrative. B: Said artists need basic freedom of speech to express there own opinions on the mess we got, which as we all know they're opinions need to get the thumbs up from management. | |
I think that's really underselling the problem, though. Here you have guys who have let you down once already, and you're expecting them to tackle a rather unique problem. And yes, Broken Steel is in the same DIRECTION, but it's clearly not the same. No one is asking them to go 'lol Shepard lives here's more missions'. They want a redo, a full revoking of the ending and something 'better' in its place. They want what exists currently to be undone. That is NOT the same as Broken Steel, where the only real issue was you dying and your story being over. That's painfully easy to fix. This doesn't strike me as being in the same wheelhouse accordingly. When you say it's Bioware's problem, that honestly concerns me. No, it's not just Bioware's problem, because Bioware aren't the ones demanding a redo. How exactly can Bioware put forward something new, something expanded or different or completely oppossed to the ending they provided, without feedback on what that ending needs to be to satisfy the upset fans? If they listen enough to change it, then they also need the feedback that clearly says what the players would be satisfied by. Otherwise, odds are we'll be right back here again, complaining about how in the new ending Shepard becomes a Grey Warden and teams up with the Reapers to defeat the Sith, or some other desperate attempt at pandering to an irate fanbase. tl; dr: if you want them to fix this, then you need to ask yourself what actually WOULD fix it, WHERE that fix should start from, and communicate that reasonably. Otherwise, don't be shocked if their Broken Steel stays broken. | |
I just thought of something that would put a stop to all this Mass Effect ending controversy. They could release a patch that after the big ending event that everyone hated (No spoilers) That would be awesome. | |
Which "they" are you referring to? If you are referring to Frozen Synapsis then I would like to point out that they intentionally screwed up the ending of their game with the intent of releasing the real ending for free later on. If you are referring to Bioware then... Well we really don't know what Bioware did. They could have intentionally messed up the ending at the behest of EA to ensure high sales of the "new ending" DLC or they simply could have had a "pants on head retarded" moment. However, if you were talking about Bioware I have a question for you. If Bioware does not care about our "nerd rage" (way to ostracize a very large group of people by the way) do they care about remaining a profitable company? If they do not handle this right they might get hit with a FTC fine for false advertising, loose vast amounts of brand loyalty, and even completely loose paying customers. I bet that if Bioware/EA does not care about our "rage" that they sure care about our wallets. | |
St Elsewhere had a much worse ending. I'm just sayin' | |
@ Poiuppx Actually there is a thread on Bioware's own forums about, precisely, what people would like to see in the ending. It's quite exact and extensive. But I for one think that, and mind you I don't speak for everyone, but I think what people really want is a chance to tell the Star Child "no". In fact that is basically what the forum pole said: that the primary gripe people had was with the insidious--and insipid--finality and absolute tone the whole thing is presented in. After all this time and all these years and all the choices we made, some magical "thing" appears from nowhere and tells us what is and isn't so based on...what? Whose authority? That is why this whole Frozen Synapse "protest" they're editing into their game is retarded, because it misses the point. If they really wanted to accurately grasp the problem they'd have the pony sit you down and explained how Bronies and Brony-Haters will always destroy one another so Lauren Faust comes through the galaxy every 50,000 years and creates breakout animated series to destroy both sides for some impenetrably convoluted reason...because that basically is what happened in Mass Effect, only this would at least be adorable. | |
I want to say that they are jumping in front of a oncoming train to save their imaginary friend but thats really what it is, their defending nothing nor teaching their audience anything. Simply put, Mode 7, your ending made more sense then Mass Effect 3s, so by default people will care less about whatever happens since you at least made it make sense. | |
an experiment huh.- Well, so while you run you "troll much?" experiment i will run my "my money not in your hands" experiment. lets see who lasts. | |
What a bunch of immature jerkoffs. My god, they don't even understand what it is about, but by golly will they shove their ignorance and immaturity in everyone's faces. | |
Seriously? Damn, game developers are such whiny little bitches, aren't they. "Uhhh, you're making me compromise my artistic integrity, uhhh", "it's high-concept! you just don't understand me! leave me alone mum!", "hurr durr, I'm gonna putta trollface in my game to try and generate sales because nobody knows who the fuck I am". Stop acting like rape victims, you bunch of ninnies; Fallout 3 changed their ending through DLC, and was a drastically better game for it, I didn't see Bethesda mourning their artistic sensibilities. And for fuck's sake, game journalists; you are not theatre critics, so stop writing like them, moaning on about the ungrateful and uncultured masses. ME3 is not the Mona Lisa, it's barely the 80's movie version of The Flash, get a grip. | |
Hah, nice. Well played Mode 7. Well played. | |
For the love of Saint Peter. Let me see if I covered all of the things that I've seen. Don't like how the game ends: Don't buy anymore from the company. Don't demand the makers to remake the game to your liking. It does not matter if they still make millions from the product because you are no longer supporting it. It's about getting your money's worth. What about all those people that were satisfied with the ending? You know all of us whose opinions you are trying to quash? Are you so selfish that you are going to force everyone else to see an ending they may not like because you did notget your money's worth? Bioware needs to answer to me because I paid for it. This was not a kickstarter project. You did not commissioned the game at all. You did not contribute one cent to the game's production. You bought the end product and that is it. Bioware was only answerable to EA because EA paid for the game and not you. Sherlock Holmes came back from the dead because Sir Arthur Conan Doyle changed his mind on his own terms. It was not because a ton of angry fans talked his ear off for 4 years. This whole Mass Effect 3 ending fiasco makes me think that Lucas made the right move when he told everyone, "This is how I always wanted Star Wars to be. Deal with it." He did not listen to any of the millions of whiny little Star Wars fans who still cling to this 15 year old hurt and act like it's the defining moment in their lives. He ignored all complaints about Han firing first, about Mannequin Skywalker, Jar Jar, CGI Yoda, and every other little nitpick that Star Wars fans complained about. When he changed the product he did it on his own terms and not because of some angry, juvenile, piss ants told him to. | |
I really think it is all in the hands of Bioware. They simply need to do what they said they would do. It is not about a happy ending or a completely opposed ending. Its about maintaining their integrity themselves and deliver on the promises made. How they will do it, is really their problem. Because this is not really about creative control of the franchise, this is an erroneous assumption. This is about false advertising and abusing their credit with the fans. There is already more than enough information on the internet about why they failed their fans (google Casey Hudson's promises). Why some people still think that this is about a happy ending or an specific type of ending is beyond me. They can do whatever they want: kill shepard, kill the whole galaxy, whatever. If it makes sense, rewards your decisions, give some closure and have less glaring plot holes, people will be satisfied and this whole thing will die. Yes, some will be more pleased than others and some will still complain, but there won't be any fuel left to add to the fire. | |
Huh so remind me to never buy anything from this comapany ever again. | |
Ah man I wish I could play a game version of the Flash. But you are right, the thing is about the whole games are art argument is that they blanket the whole medium as being art but just because something has the potential to be art doesn't make it so. Just like not all books are art not all games are art and critics need to realise that, I honestly think they are scared of this movement because it delegitimizes them as critics. Well for one they are not critics, anyone with writting skills and knowledge of gaming can be a games journalist and aside from that gaming is still a young medium and there is no real way yet to properly critique a game, do we judge it as a product, how it plays or what the intentions of the developers are? There is no real message to Mass Effect series not does it have different interpretations it is a fun ride but it is not art. | |
Leaving aside the sentiments of your post as a whole, I couldn't help but feel a little amused at this line. It lends the ending narrative such a... gravitas, I guess, by implicitly borrowing from the credibility of all the writing that came before it. In reality, there's a decent story they spent five years developing, and then a butchered mess tacked on to the end.
You must be the sort of consumer that corporate sales analysts have wet dreams about. Who actually stands up to defend and justify false marketing? The mind boggles.
How nice to meet someone who was a personal friend of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. That must make you, what, over 130 years old or thereabouts? | |
If it was a unilateral decision to idiotically alter the ending to his own game completely independant of the wants or concerns of the fans of the game, how on Earth did this feel like "vandalizing" the developer's own game? For it to be vandalized, he would have felt that the change was not at all something that should be done; since he did it himself, then that can hardly be vandalizing it. This is just a cheap publicity stunt conjured up by a prick. | |
Love it. And, further proof gamers need to get over themselves. | |
Well played, there! It's more than I expected from Frozen Synapse of all things. It's a fun game, alright, but I didn't even know it -had- an ending. Of course, I'm afraid this will come back to haunt them. Fans are sensitive creatures. | |
This reads more like an insult to the ME fan base that are unhappy than a "personal experiment" and that's what annoys me more than anything else. He's bullshitting everyone. | |
Ah, makes more sense then, not a lot of people are that sensible though.
Sorry, but I never said that, and quoting me just proves that. You thinking I "kind of" said something. Doesn't mean I said it, or even meant it. My only point was, that people brought up that the endings were terrible before launch. If someone just blindly buys a game when there were already complaints, then is surprised when the ending is exactly as others said it was, then they didn't do research and wait for more opinions to come out. I was about to type a long explanation about my beef with some of the more angry viewpoints concerning this debacle, but it's not specifically aimed at you and this thread is so long no one will read it :'( | |
Not even in the same ballpark here, unless they were being ironic or something, in which case it's not very funny. | |
They(Mode 7) is well, I don't know what they're doing. I'm not sure if they're doing it to be attention whores, or to defend Bioware, or to troll, or because they want to. I don't think they got it. As for Mass Effect 3, I'm going to have to go ahead and say that the game stopped making sense right about the time you leave Mars. The story was a little bit odd here and there, but nothing that brought the story that started 5 years, and 150+ game hours ago crashing to a halt until the very end. One of the endings directly removes any possibility at a future in the ME universe, unless all of the sudden something similar to Mass Relays come in from other Galaxies, pretty much right to every system's doorstep. One of the endings directly removes any possibility at a future in the ME universe, and the last one actually leaves a few options here and there. I wonder if pointing out this information would help them rewrite an ending that actually has a possible future in the ME universe. | |
...I still don't care about Mass Effect at all. I'll also leave THIS right here. http://rampantgames.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/bwcliches.png | |
To all the people who did not like the ending of mass effect 3, do you get upset when you lose at a board game, do you call up the manufacture and tell them to make it so you win? No! Its a game, and honestly it was a good game with a good ending, just because its not a fluffy happy ending like something from Disney does not mean it was a bad. Grow up and stop feeling so entitled, because that is exactly how you are acting, like an entitled child. | |
I did not even bother to read the article for one reason: the source is Kotaku, they have been biased and bashing Bioware fans since the start of this whole Ending fiasco. Plus Frozen Synapse....eerm you can not vandalize a product which is already vandalism..in my opinion that is. | |
I think this is funny, and more devs should act like this, it's called having fun. And all the outrage at the ending, two of my mates have completed it now, and neither of them thought it was a bad ending. I'd hate to see the reactions of all these moaning fans if they ever read a George RR Martin book | |
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Sorry, but when I see "game devs" in a discussion relating to ME3 surrounding a "controversy" about a consumer base complaining about the devs not paying attention , I'm going to use to most relevant example to counter your claim about developers in general. Also, Sorry that my use "your" and "you" made it sound like I was targeting you in the singular. Once again, I was talking about the general consensus that people do want the ending of a Bioware game to change, and how that's different from merely complaining or not buying a product.
And while we're playing the "I never said" game, when I say you had to view the leaked endings? Or even knew what they were? I steered clear of spoilers entirely, but I knew that people were dissatisfied with the ending waaaay in advance. Being an uninformed consumer does not mean you have to spoiler the story, and it is not an excuse for dissatisfaction.