Nintendo Says You're Playing Kid Icarus: Uprising Wrong

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Be like the calm breeze grasshopper, you must discover the flow.

.........I haven't PLAYED uprising yet, but honestly....I think that nintendo dropped the ball there. From what I've heard from even friends who played the game, the controls are super annoying. It IS nintendo's fault that people are "playing it wrong". :s

Kakulukia:
This is relevant:


If we're not playing properly, it's your own damn fault, Sakurai-san.

While I GENERALLY agree with that outlook most of the time (and very much so in Uprising's case)...

Jim ACTUALLY DID play Vanquish totally wrong, and it's NOT the developer's fault...

The game penalizes you for staying in cover and being slow, and Jim ended up just playing that game like it was Gears of war, apparently.

Jim couldn't figure out how to properly use the suit's powers without overheating all the time and getting killed, so he just stopped using the suit's abilities.....And using them is the whole point of the game...

Doclector:

Crono1973:

Doclector:
Remind me, who were the last people to do that stuff? I can't remember, they either said "you're playing it wrong!" or "you just suck at it". Either way, and whoever it was, it was physically painful to read, just as this is.

Was it Nintendo in reference to Skyward Sword?

Hmm. I don't remember it being that...was it duke nukem forever? I coulda sworn it was more recent, though...

I believe you are thinking of the Amy developers. They claimed that the game-breaking bugs were just people sucking at their game.

Also, a nice big f%^& you to Nintendo too. I'm a lefty, stylus controls are already a bit of a pain in the ass, just like your non-switchable motion controls. Ever played a game that required pinpoint movements, then try doing them with everything reversed? Not fun.

And just to make their screwed up control setup work, I have to buy the circle-pro addon for the 3DS. Of course, work is just a subjective word because its more than obvious that it isn't all that functional from the start.

I'll say this though, it would be almost impossible to "suck" at Skyward Sword. For all the hype that game has received with its one-to-one sword-fighting and all the "skill" it will take, you can give a spastic 3yr old the wii-mote and he can get through pretty much everything just by waggling it left and right like a nut. Hell, its even more effective than trying to play right for the most part!

I think we're hitting a point where Nintendo might of struck themselves in the head with a wii-mote, and are no longer capable of understanding the most basic of game concepts.

Just don't let Moviebob hear me say that, he might get offended.

Kakulukia:

itchcrotch:
this is exactly why the japanese games industry is having troubles. japan has a very maker-consumer business culture with a big fat wall between them, and japanese developers just don't know how to use criticism, hell they don't know how to RECEIVE criticism.

To be fair, western developers don't know how to receive criticism either. Remember Cliff Bleszinski crying about 8/10 reviews for GeoW 3? Or Jonathan Blow complaining about perfect scores for Braid because the reviewer didn't love the game for "the right reasons"? That shit's gotta be worse.

I think western developers take it in more that japanese developers do, but that doesn't mean they'll ever admit it. if bioware looks at the criticism flung at mass effect 2's clunky movement controls, they'll think "you know what? you're totally right" but as a general rule, they'll never admit to agreeing with that criticism.
but now that i think about it... most western developers who can't handle criticism are the more autor's among them. and maybe that's the key: most japanese games are autor games.

You know, this whole "It's YOUR fault, you dummy!" excuse developers are pulling out of their asses is getting pretty annoying. At first I thought maybe it was our fault, but after hearing this one too many times, I'm starting to think otherwise. The most notorious one still is Capcom's "MML3 got cancelled because of you. You should feel horrible and proceed to jump off a cliff" argument.

Maybe if everyone is complaining about the controllers it means the controllers *GASP* don't work well? I mean, if it was just one lonesome person complaining, then yea, you're right. He/she is probably playing it wrong. But when almost everyone who has played it starts complaining, then you got a problem.

Doclector:

Crono1973:

Doclector:
Remind me, who were the last people to do that stuff? I can't remember, they either said "you're playing it wrong!" or "you just suck at it". Either way, and whoever it was, it was physically painful to read, just as this is.

Was it Nintendo in reference to Skyward Sword?

Hmm. I don't remember it being that...was it duke nukem forever? I coulda sworn it was more recent, though...

Oh, I got that one! It was Amy, wasn't it?

EDIT: Damn, ninja'd.

evilneko:

Zachary Amaranth:
Is this the biggest dev yet to pull the "You're playing it wrong" line?

Pretty sure Apple's bigger than Nintendo.

I'm pretty sure, too, but that sort of brings up the problem that I'm unfamiliar with any instance in which apple has actually said it.

Pandaman1911:

I think so. This is sort of the developer equivalent of "NO YOU" in response to criticism, isn't it?

It's part of the "we are perfect, you just suck" way of doing things.

Formica Archonis:

Or alternately everyone switches over to the other scheme en masse (probably what would've happened) and we're all happy. Or some people are willing to trade the performance for comfort because they don't want to be sore after playing a game.

Additionally, if the current scheme causes most people trouble, why would they still be at an advantage? The only people I can see being at an advantage are the ones who find the control scheme comfortable, and they're already at an advantage.

Oh, wait, I know one group at a disadvantage: LEFTIES. Retro Gamer's praise-packed review stopped for a paragraph to specifically complain about the controls, especially how they were even worse for people who are left-handed, and questioning why they weren't more configurable.

So not only is their comment on balance a crock, the built-in scheme unbalances the game for 10% of the population.

Doesn't Nintendo frequently shaft lefties? I get the impression that they really don't care.

Zachary Amaranth:

evilneko:

Zachary Amaranth:
Is this the biggest dev yet to pull the "You're playing it wrong" line?

Pretty sure Apple's bigger than Nintendo.

I'm pretty sure, too, but that sort of brings up the problem that I'm unfamiliar with any instance in which apple has actually said it.

Iphone 4. "You're holding it wrong." Yeah, that was a thing.

Before Seeing The Comments: There are going to be a lot of people saying "No, FUCK. YOU." in the comments, aren't there?

After Seeing The Comments: Yep, There are a lot of people saying "No, FUCK. YOU." in the comments.

OT: I do understand some of Sakurai's comments; every good player of the multiplayer would be using the stylus-&-circle-pad option because it allows for greater cursor control. However, considering that Kid Icarus: Uprising is a very heavy single-player game, not including the option to use the Cirlce Pad Pro isn't justifiable in this scenario. Now granted, I didn't find the controls to be that bad, but I can definitely see why some people are extremely upset, especially when an established standard has already been in place for a long time when it comes to 3D shooters.

You make crappy controls, you claim people ain't playing it right.

Uck!

So the excuse they give for a poorly implemented and frustrating control scheme is simply 'YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!' Stay classy Nintendo. Stay classy.

Covarr:
It wasn't a problem in Metroid Prime: Hunters. Why is it suddenly a problem now?

P.S. Thanks

It never seemed to be a problem for pretty much every DS FPS ever made.

Honestly I never thought ANYONE would have this problem so the outrage over "bad controls" was quite jarring...

Bout the worst thing I can sling at the controls was the lack of customization and the lack of a lefty option (Circle Pad Pro... as much as I hate the thing I can see a very clear use in that regard)

aegix drakan:
.........I haven't PLAYED uprising yet, but honestly....I think that nintendo dropped the ball there. From what I've heard from even friends who played the game, the controls are super annoying. It IS nintendo's fault that people are "playing it wrong". :s

Kakulukia:
This is relevant:


If we're not playing properly, it's your own damn fault, Sakurai-san.

While I GENERALLY agree with that outlook most of the time (and very much so in Uprising's case)...

Jim ACTUALLY DID play Vanquish totally wrong, and it's NOT the developer's fault...

The game penalizes you for staying in cover and being slow, and Jim ended up just playing that game like it was Gears of war, apparently.

Jim couldn't figure out how to properly use the suit's powers without overheating all the time and getting killed, so he just stopped using the suit's abilities.....And using them is the whole point of the game...

But vanquish does discourage the use of the suit powers.

Covarr:
It wasn't a problem in Metroid Prime: Hunters. Why is it suddenly a problem now?

P.S. Thanks

I was thinking the same thing, I didn't hear a lot of complaints at the time. Although I think a lot games like that had the option to use the letter face buttons as a second d pad. Choice is always better and multiply balance isn't an excuse unless it uses that adaptor.

In any case after TWEWY I don't think there is a DS control scheme that is too hard to learn.

The FIRST rule of interface design is that if everyone expects something to function in a certain way, and they get frustrated because it functions differently, you've messed up. An interface should always be as intuitive as possible, it doesn't matter if making button X do function Y instead of button Z, if everyone expects it do do something you make it do that. Failing that you put heaps on effort into conveying the changes properly. Doesn't seem like Sakurai did either.

Yep, they should definitely fire Sakurai.

Out of a cannon.

Into a brick wall.

But seriously, Sakurai has said way too many stupid things for me to trust Nintendo. You can probably just hire any of the people on this thread and they could improve the control scheme.

Metroid Hunters used a similar control system. D-pad to move and stylus to aim. However they did have it so that shooting was done by tapping the touch screen, IIRC, and I thought it was one of the best DS games. Its a shame Kid Icarus appears to have messed it up.

Samus Aaron:
Woah, hold on! Nintendo is not saying "You're playing it wrong." Nowhere in the article does Nintendo say anything along those lines. It's recommending a different style of play, not outright attacking players' choices. While the title of this article isn't an outright lie (although by writing 'Nintendo says', the author might as well be putting words into the company's mouth), there is no denying that the author of this article is writing this news in a deceptive, borderline sensationalist manner.

Well he has said don't play it this why play it my way and that is telling someone that they are playing it wrong and frankly as the the shipped with a stand he can just shut up anyway.

cursedseishi:

Doclector:

Crono1973:

Was it Nintendo in reference to Skyward Sword?

Hmm. I don't remember it being that...was it duke nukem forever? I coulda sworn it was more recent, though...

I believe you are thinking of the Amy developers. They claimed that the game-breaking bugs were just people sucking at their game.

Also, a nice big f%^& you to Nintendo too. I'm a lefty, stylus controls are already a bit of a pain in the ass, just like your non-switchable motion controls. Ever played a game that required pinpoint movements, then try doing them with everything reversed? Not fun.

And just to make their screwed up control setup work, I have to buy the circle-pro addon for the 3DS. Of course, work is just a subjective word because its more than obvious that it isn't all that functional from the start.

I'll say this though, it would be almost impossible to "suck" at Skyward Sword. For all the hype that game has received with its one-to-one sword-fighting and all the "skill" it will take, you can give a spastic 3yr old the wii-mote and he can get through pretty much everything just by waggling it left and right like a nut. Hell, its even more effective than trying to play right for the most part!

I think we're hitting a point where Nintendo might of struck themselves in the head with a wii-mote, and are no longer capable of understanding the most basic of game concepts.

Just don't let Moviebob hear me say that, he might get offended.

yep, that was it. Dear god that game was a disapointment. I thought the consoles might finally be getting some true survival horror, bought MS points in preparation and then...well, I haven't played a worse game this year. Matter of fact, I haven't for a few years. The last time I played a game that bad was probably a few years ago with "alone in the dark".

As for nintendo, they really have annoyed me recently. To me, it seems like they've spent the last five years or so being a massive tease to their fans, always promising and hinting the games that everyone wanted, and delivering to the casual crowd. Nothing wrong with casual gaming, but when you practically promise some hardcore games, you need to follow up on that, especially if it's such loyal fans who kept you afloat when your home console was being devastatingly underrated.

Then out comes the 3DS, and the con is complete. "Hey, those games you kept asking for are here! Buy our new 200+ handheld to play them!" god knows how it'll get when it comes to the wiiU. Maybe if the flow of hardcore titles continues, I could one day find myself forgiving them, but for now, I wait for the point where the con starts anew, and they tease a bunch of new titles that won't come out until the DSmove/DScam/DSlick.

Ha-hah.

First Bioware with "You didn't understand the ending", now Nintendo "You didn't understand our game".

What's next? Bethesda explaining bugs with "You didn't acknowledge the amazing new features"?

Zachary Amaranth:
Is this the biggest dev yet to pull the "You're playing it wrong" line?

he is right.
so many gamers today have lost the art of slapping your dick on the controller.

this way you would have your other fingers to control the character.

women can use a strap-on.

Abedeus:
Ha-hah.

First Bioware with "You didn't understand the ending", now Nintendo "You didn't understand our game".

What's next? Bethesda explaining bugs with "You didn't acknowledge the amazing new features"?

didnt they say they wont fix funny bugs?
that counts.

and i bet they will release giant dovakin tossing in the fus ro party game edition with full kinect support.

Is not the way all DS shooters worked? Why is there hate now but not then?

haha its funny because i didn't buy it.

Did anyone read the article? Or just assumed everything after the title?

They aren't saying players are playing the game wrong. They just explain why they didn't put in other control schemes and then they say what amounts to "loosen up a little". IMO "Relax" is not equal to saying "You're playing the game wrong!"

Sure they probably should've said "Sorry about that guys, but seriously, relax and loosen up a bit and it won't be as bad as everyone says it is."

I'm sorry, but why on earth would you release this game on the 3DS and not the Wii, when the control scheme is clearly designed for Wiimote/Nunchuk controls?

I haven't played the game but would it not be easier to completely change the control scheme to something like every fps/tps on console and ditch the scheme which requires a plastic stand? I mean, the game cant require that sort of speed in single player/coop.

I also have never seen the touch screen used in a way that didn't feel completely gimmicky.

totally heterosexual:

But vanquish does discourage the use of the suit powers.

It does? ?_?

Are you talking about the overheat mechanic? Because that's there to stop you from just being in slow mo the entire game, and make you be smart about your use of powers. You're not supposed to spam them and hold your slowmo until the suit overheats. You're generally supposed to cancel before you overheat, so that the suit recharges faster, and use the slowmo in smaller bursts in tough situations, rather than prolonged uses. Basically, you need to push the suit to the limit while rationing the power bar.

The only power I actually agree felt discouraged was the melee attack, since it overheats you in one use (unless you're using the chainsaw thingy).

I never finished Vanquish (the environments, samey enemies and lacklucter plot lost my attention about two thirds into he game), but when I played it, my typical strategy was: Boost into cover, analyze best attack angle, boost partway into battle, and then use short bursts of the slowmo to kill everything (especially with the shotgun. I loved that thing).

And even then, a friend of mine who got obsessed with that game was even more crazy then me. I can't comprehend how he did it, but the only times he ever overheated was when he used a melee attack, usually timed so that he wasn't in any real danger.

As for players who are angry at the controls or feeling they've developed carpal tunnel playing Kid Icarus, Sakruai recommended they try approaching the game from a different angle.

What? Like perhaps holding the 3DS on it's side?

Seriously, if you're having to explain how to play your game in an interview instead of in-game tutorials and manuals then you're the one doing something wrong.

Kakulukia:
This is relevant:
If we're not playing properly, it's your own damn fault, Sakurai-san.

Thank you for linking this. I hadn't seen it before. That is pretty spot on.

The correct dev response would be "We intended the game to be played like this. As feedback to the dev team for the sake of future projects, may we please ask you for suggestions on how to reach this goal? Thank you for your honesty."

harvz:
I haven't played the game but would it not be easier to completely change the control scheme to something like every fps/tps on console and ditch the scheme which requires a plastic stand?...

There is no scheme which requires the stand.

In my experience the stand is useful and comfortable IN GENERAL when I happen to be at home playing at a table, which I often do, but that would apply equally to if I were playing any other game or any other portable system like the PSP for instance.

In any case, the controls for uprising don't bother me, and neither did Metroid Prime Hunters which was praised for its controls at the time if I remember correctly.

I don't even own the game and I am insulted at his attitude.
and I agree with Jim.

Scrumpmonkey:
Oh fuck off Nintendo. As a person who didn't spend their childhood having your products relentlessly burned into my nostalgia centre i don't feel any real emotinal attachment to Nintendo like some people do. This makes them seem to me like "That company of overrated douchebags" that everyone keeps telling me to love unconditionally.

Let us drink cocktails together.

Doclector:
Remind me, who were the last people to do that stuff? I can't remember, they either said "you're playing it wrong!" or "you just suck at it". Either way, and whoever it was, it was physically painful to read, just as this is.

Pretty sure it was the Amy devs. Although I think there's was more along the lines of "some people just don't like difficult games".

OT: Sounds like bad control scheme is bad.

Woodsey:

Scrumpmonkey:
Oh fuck off Nintendo. As a person who didn't spend their childhood having your products relentlessly burned into my nostalgia centre i don't feel any real emotinal attachment to Nintendo like some people do. This makes them seem to me like "That company of overrated douchebags" that everyone keeps telling me to love unconditionally.

Let us drink cocktails together.

OT: Sounds like bad control scheme is bad.

You're buying :P

Well i feel compelled to qualify that satement; i don't 'hate' Nintendo like my rant would imply. Its the frustrated sentiments of someone who has really tried to be a fan of their games. The Wii has many redeeming qualities, as do many of their games, but they just make it so hard for me to love them. Looking back Nintendo has shaped a lot of gaming. But that is their problem. Looking back.

Nintendo and it's fanbase seem to constantly be gazing misty eyed into those heady glory days that may or may not have existed as many remember them. If you look forward or even just take stock of your current position things don't look quite as rosey. Nintendo makes amazing games. They also make an equally amazing about of mistakes. It's hard to be generous to a company that is so reliant on its past and which seems to still have this mythical godlike status.

Please. Please Nintendo. Try and think for a second. Clear your head, forget that you are nintendo for a few hours and take stock of where you are and what you are doing. I like you guys but you're really screwing the pooch. If you don't want to be just another footnote on gaming's past then you need to shape up, let go of some of your past ideas and try to make great, original and NEW products again. Help us to help you Nintendo.

Covarr:
It wasn't a problem in Metroid Prime: Hunters. Why is it suddenly a problem now?

Not for you, maybe. MP:H invariably had my left hand numb within the first map.

I don't mind the control scheme... and I'm a whimpy, sissy little girl that has trouble holding a heavy cooking skillet. In my 25 years, I've played games that genuinely hurt (Track & Field, Mario Party, etc.), but Kid Icarus isn't NEARLY as bad as people say it is.

Is it optimal? Hell no. They absolutely could've made it easier to play.

But it's also nowhere near the crippling, flesh-tearing, muscle killing, limb-rendering, agonizing hellfire pain that some people claim it is.

I seriously had about 30 minutes of mild discomfort as I learned how to play the game, then it was smooth sailing from there. 121 hours of playing later and I don't feel any problems.

This is like how a ton of people were angry that the Nintendo Wii made them "sore" after they had to actually move their arms and wrists to play a few games.

In the immortal words of Dead Space's Gabe Weller, "Man up, sweethearts."

Call me a nintendo fanboy, but I'm agreeing with Mr.Sakurai here.
All those messed up joysticks, stuck A buttons, and broken TV's that have a Wiimote sticking out of them, all are because we gamers tend to play a little to hard.
Nintendo DID give us a stand, told us the control set-up both in the instruction booklet AND in the game, gave us the option of changing said controls, and yet people STILL bitch and moan.
Nintendo has done it's part, time for the gamers to do so as well. Heck I wonder how many of you people that are bitching and moaning have even PLAYED the game, and are just hoping on the "Hate Nintendo" bandwagon.
I've played through the game and am at 98.7% completion now and I was good with the controls after just one mission that only took me 10-12 minutes.
Just because they made it doesn't mean the fault is 100% on them. Before you blame others, look at yourself. Nintendo has done so with what they have already given.

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