BioWare Montreal Takes Over Mass Effect

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most bioware employees these days are just freelance contractors so you dont get the same staff continuing with products. im not suprised they are releasing substandard work

Duffeknol:
Could not give two shits about the gameplay, as long as they hire people who can actually WRITE a damn COHERENT story.

Casey Hudson is involved, so there goes a coherent story out the window.

"We need maor magic kids!"

CharlesA:
Loved all of them, probably will love this one too. God people are bitchy over here.

Or some of us have, you know, standards.

I wouldn't mind a shift in studios if they also chucked out Casey Hudson. As it stands, I'll wait at least a week after it's released to find out if he ruined another ending and if the game is worth buying.

Legion:

Andy Chalk:

"The other thing I can tell you is that, while it will be very respectful of the heritage built over the course of the first three games.

This part amused me, because personally I'd argue that the third game wasn't particularly respectful of the heritage built over the course of the first two.

short of the ending, how was it not respectful of the heritage built over the last 2?

Opinions folks. I'm pretty sure most people felt that Mass Effect 1 had inferior gameplay to ME2 (it was far too easy) and ME2 is generally considered to be the best game in the franchise (everything in ME2 was an improvement over ME1 for me). I liked ME3 -- including the story, up until the ending with that stupid child and how everything you did made little difference.

However the ending left a very bad taste in my mouth, I'm definitely not hyped up for this and will wait until public opinion is in before I even give it a second thought.

Zeriah:
Opinions folks. I'm pretty sure most people felt that Mass Effect 1 had inferior gameplay to ME2 (it was far too easy) and ME2 is generally considered to be the best game in the franchise (everything in ME2 was an improvement over ME1 for me). I liked ME3 -- including the story, up until the ending with that stupid child and how everything you did made little difference.

However the ending left a very bad taste in my mouth, I'm definitely not hyped up for this and will wait until public opinion is in before I even give it a second thought.

Um ME was the absolute best of the series. ME2 was a buggy, crappy, Gears of War rip-off that stripped away all the immersion ME had. (Let's get rid of the elevator where you'd hear news about your exploits, get new missions, and hear squad banter and replace it with... a GRAPHIC of an elevator that is on screen for longer! Genius!) And ME3 was a little bit better than 2 up until the very end.

Eruanno:

Canadish:
They're using the Frostbite engine?

So...does this mean instead of 3 coloured endings, we'll only have blue?

And brown. Actually, four very slightly different shades of brown and one blue.

I would expect it to be closer to 50 shades of grey.

Basically all the endings being ambiguous, plentiful, but ultimately amounting to nothing.

Nimzabaat:

Zeriah:
Opinions folks. I'm pretty sure most people felt that Mass Effect 1 had inferior gameplay to ME2 (it was far too easy) and ME2 is generally considered to be the best game in the franchise (everything in ME2 was an improvement over ME1 for me). I liked ME3 -- including the story, up until the ending with that stupid child and how everything you did made little difference.

However the ending left a very bad taste in my mouth, I'm definitely not hyped up for this and will wait until public opinion is in before I even give it a second thought.

Um ME was the absolute best of the series. ME2 was a buggy, crappy, Gears of War rip-off that stripped away all the immersion ME had. (Let's get rid of the elevator where you'd hear news about your exploits, get new missions, and hear squad banter and replace it with... a GRAPHIC of an elevator that is on screen for longer! Genius!) And ME3 was a little bit better than 2 up until the very end.

Gears of War rip off? Hard to take you seriously when you say stuff like that. You still have classes, you still have talents, you still have weapon choices and abilities, you still have to control your squad. It just had a slightly higher focus on the shooting portion of it, so you can't just stand in the open and kill everything without being in any danger at all (so long as you use your skills), like in ME1 (that you could even do this on Insanity difficulty as a Soldier was just insane). There were no bugs on my game and the 'crappy' part is your opinion.

Your one complaint (which is more of a preference) is that you have a load screen when using elevators, instead of standing in the elevator listening to a radio station of your exploits (which you still get to hear in towns anyway). Alrighty...

Either way Mass Effect 2 is more critically acclaimed than Mass Effect by both critics and fans alike so...

Mass Effect 3 had great gameplay... they only needed to build on it; not 'go in new directions' with it. And considering how well going in a new gameplay direction worked with DA2 it's a pretty worrying statement.

Here's hoping they make it a sequel wherein the cannon is automatically Shepard chooses the destroy option and they immediately ignore all that garbage with the star child.

INeedAName:
(especially not when the main conflict of the universe has already been resolved in another game).

Well...

Or maybe not, I dunno. I don't really get the feeling that they spent too much time thinking about the implications of the Leviathan DLC when they made it.

Zeriah:

Nimzabaat:

Zeriah:
Opinions folks. I'm pretty sure most people felt that Mass Effect 1 had inferior gameplay to ME2 (it was far too easy) and ME2 is generally considered to be the best game in the franchise (everything in ME2 was an improvement over ME1 for me). I liked ME3 -- including the story, up until the ending with that stupid child and how everything you did made little difference.

However the ending left a very bad taste in my mouth, I'm definitely not hyped up for this and will wait until public opinion is in before I even give it a second thought.

Um ME was the absolute best of the series. ME2 was a buggy, crappy, Gears of War rip-off that stripped away all the immersion ME had. (Let's get rid of the elevator where you'd hear news about your exploits, get new missions, and hear squad banter and replace it with... a GRAPHIC of an elevator that is on screen for longer! Genius!) And ME3 was a little bit better than 2 up until the very end.

Gears of War rip off? Hard to take you seriously when you say stuff like that. You still have classes, you still have talents, you still have weapon choices and abilities, you still have to control your squad. It just had a slightly higher focus on the shooting portion of it, so you can't just stand in the open and kill everything without being in any danger at all (so long as you use your skills), like in ME1 (that you could even do this on Insanity difficulty as a Soldier was just insane). There was no bugs on my game and the 'crappy' part is your opinion.

Your one complaint (which is more of a preference) is that you have a load screen when using elevators, instead of standing in the elevator listening to a radio station of your exploits (which you still get to hear in towns anyway). Alrighty...

Either way Mass Effect 2 is more critically acclaimed than Mass Effect by both critics and fans alike so...

You must be new to this and any other website. ME2 was as "critically" acclaimed as Too Human. My complaint was cut-scene/chest high walls/cut-scene (oh and the completely dumbed-down inventory system). It wasn't even a GOOD Gears of War rip-off. And, because you're new, that was a complaint from a lot of people. Welcome to the internet by the way :)

Nimzabaat:

Zeriah:

Nimzabaat:

Um ME was the absolute best of the series. ME2 was a buggy, crappy, Gears of War rip-off that stripped away all the immersion ME had. (Let's get rid of the elevator where you'd hear news about your exploits, get new missions, and hear squad banter and replace it with... a GRAPHIC of an elevator that is on screen for longer! Genius!) And ME3 was a little bit better than 2 up until the very end.

Gears of War rip off? Hard to take you seriously when you say stuff like that. You still have classes, you still have talents, you still have weapon choices and abilities, you still have to control your squad. It just had a slightly higher focus on the shooting portion of it, so you can't just stand in the open and kill everything without being in any danger at all (so long as you use your skills), like in ME1 (that you could even do this on Insanity difficulty as a Soldier was just insane). There was no bugs on my game and the 'crappy' part is your opinion.

Your one complaint (which is more of a preference) is that you have a load screen when using elevators, instead of standing in the elevator listening to a radio station of your exploits (which you still get to hear in towns anyway). Alrighty...

Either way Mass Effect 2 is more critically acclaimed than Mass Effect by both critics and fans alike so...

You must be new to this and any other website. ME2 was as "critically" acclaimed as Too Human. My complaint was cut-scene/chest high walls/cut-scene (oh and the completely dumbed-down inventory system). It wasn't even a GOOD Gears of War rip-off. And, because you're new, that was a complaint from a lot of people. Welcome to the internet by the way :)

I've been here since March 2009 friend. ME2 is more critically acclaimed than ME1 by fans and critics alike. This is fact. If you took five minutes to research your claims instead spouting out this absurdity, you would see this. Even this community likes ME2 more than ME1. There's been so many polls that support this (for example the annual, enormous, greatest game of all time thread, where ME2 is always ranked significantly higher than ME1), that you have missed all this means you don't know this website very well. There is a small minority that did like the supermarket clerk gameplay of ME1's inventory system, but more people liked ME2's system. This is because ME1's system wasn't complex at all -- just a tedious chore. Then you would go out into the actual combat and be disappointed because it required little effort on your part once you exited the menu screen. The combat in ME1 was incredibly shallow, even on insanity, hence why people overall prefer ME2.

So yes, I prefer actually needing to direct your squad, using your abilities in a tactical way and yes, even the use of chest high walls (because bullets are actual threats, unlike the nigh invulnerability of ME1) more than ME1 and thankfully the public overall agrees with this :).

The inclusion of chest high walls does not make it a GoW clone, as I said before you still have to use all those other tools to succeed. Stop with the hyperbole.

Zeriah:

Nimzabaat:

Zeriah:

Gears of War rip off? Hard to take you seriously when you say stuff like that. You still have classes, you still have talents, you still have weapon choices and abilities, you still have to control your squad. It just had a slightly higher focus on the shooting portion of it, so you can't just stand in the open and kill everything without being in any danger at all (so long as you use your skills), like in ME1 (that you could even do this on Insanity difficulty as a Soldier was just insane). There was no bugs on my game and the 'crappy' part is your opinion.

Your one complaint (which is more of a preference) is that you have a load screen when using elevators, instead of standing in the elevator listening to a radio station of your exploits (which you still get to hear in towns anyway). Alrighty...

Either way Mass Effect 2 is more critically acclaimed than Mass Effect by both critics and fans alike so...

You must be new to this and any other website. ME2 was as "critically" acclaimed as Too Human. My complaint was cut-scene/chest high walls/cut-scene (oh and the completely dumbed-down inventory system). It wasn't even a GOOD Gears of War rip-off. And, because you're new, that was a complaint from a lot of people. Welcome to the internet by the way :)

I've been here since March 2009 friend. ME2 is more critically acclaimed than ME1 by fans and critics alike. This is fact. If you took five minutes to research your claims would see this. Even this community likes ME2 more than ME1. There's been so many polls that support this (for example the annual, enormous, greatest game of all time thread, where ME2 is always ranked significantly higher than ME1), that you have missed all this means you don't know this website very well. There's a small minority that did like the supermarket clerc gameplay of ME1's inventory system. However it required very little thought to understand, it wasn't complex at all -- just tedious. Then you would go out to into actual combat and it required no effort on your part whatsoever. The combat in ME1 was incredibly shallow, even on insanity. Hence why people overall prefer ME2.

So yes, I prefer actually needing to direct your squad, using your abilities in a tactical way and yes, even the use of chest high walls because bullets are actual threats (unlike the nigh invulnerability of ME1) more than ME1 and thankfully the public overall agrees with this :). The inclusion of chest high walls does not make it a GoW clone, as I said before you still have to use all those other tools to succeed.

So you completely missed the whole "ME2 is the beginning of the end for Bioware" rants? ALL of them? That's a huge rock to be living under. I wonder if you get intern... Oh, apparently not. ME2 brought out the first wave of "EA has destroyed Bioware". Followed up by DA2, the second wave of said bitching. Then followed again by ME3, and an even bigger wave of bitching. (Oh and SWTOR was in there somewhere too). Critics did say good things about ME2, but they're paid too, so that doesn't count. Hell, they said the same good things about ME3. (the closest thing to an honest critic is Yahtzee and most people don't use his reviews as a buying guide). Non-Bioware fans also said good things about ME2. But realistically, ME2 was Bioware's first big "F**K YOU" to their fanbase. Once again, followed up by an "and your mother too" with DA2... Yeah that's a mighty big rock.

Oh and ME had a very functional and elegant cover system that didn't feel at all like you were playing Gears of War. Just saying.

While I enjoyed Mass Effect 2 more, I still think Mass Effect 1 was the more interesting game. (In terms of an actual game. I never really cared for the story all that much).

Nimzabaat:
(oh and the completely dumbed-down inventory system).

Wait, what? The Inventory system in ME1 was an abomination and so was the equipment, getting rid of it and introducing more than four guns and armour with different useful properties was a bad thing?

Nimzabaat:

Zeriah:

Nimzabaat:

You must be new to this and any other website. ME2 was as "critically" acclaimed as Too Human. My complaint was cut-scene/chest high walls/cut-scene (oh and the completely dumbed-down inventory system). It wasn't even a GOOD Gears of War rip-off. And, because you're new, that was a complaint from a lot of people. Welcome to the internet by the way :)

I've been here since March 2009 friend. ME2 is more critically acclaimed than ME1 by fans and critics alike. This is fact. If you took five minutes to research your claims would see this. Even this community likes ME2 more than ME1. There's been so many polls that support this (for example the annual, enormous, greatest game of all time thread, where ME2 is always ranked significantly higher than ME1), that you have missed all this means you don't know this website very well. There's a small minority that did like the supermarket clerc gameplay of ME1's inventory system. However it required very little thought to understand, it wasn't complex at all -- just tedious. Then you would go out to into actual combat and it required no effort on your part whatsoever. The combat in ME1 was incredibly shallow, even on insanity. Hence why people overall prefer ME2.

So yes, I prefer actually needing to direct your squad, using your abilities in a tactical way and yes, even the use of chest high walls because bullets are actual threats (unlike the nigh invulnerability of ME1) more than ME1 and thankfully the public overall agrees with this :). The inclusion of chest high walls does not make it a GoW clone, as I said before you still have to use all those other tools to succeed.

So you completely missed the whole "ME2 is the beginning of the end for Bioware" rants? ALL of them? That's a huge rock to be living under. I wonder if you get intern... Oh, apparently not. ME2 brought out the first wave of "EA has destroyed Bioware". Followed up by DA2, the second wave of said bitching. Then followed again by ME3, and an even bigger wave of bitching. (Oh and SWTOR was in there somewhere too). Critics did say good things about ME2, but they're paid too, so that doesn't count. Hell, they said the same good things about ME3. (the closest thing to an honest critic is Yahtzee and most people don't use his reviews as a buying guide). Non-Bioware fans also said good things about ME2. But realistically, ME2 was Bioware's first big "F**K YOU" to their fanbase. Once again, followed up by an "and your mother too" with DA2... Yeah that's a mighty big rock.

Oh and ME had a very functional and elegant cover system that didn't feel at all like you were playing Gears of War. Just saying.

Some people were upset about losing the chore of the inventory system, I do remember this. However as I said, more people liked ME2, just take a look at any poll. There was a bit of an initial circle jerk by disgruntled fans of clerk simulation. However these were always promptly interrupted by the reasonable majority. Critics liked ME2 more, fans liked ME2 more and this website likes ME2 more. Deal with it.

The Bioware is dead chants didn't really start by the reasonable person until they made their first mediocre game in Dragon Age 2.

J Tyran:

Nimzabaat:
(oh and the completely dumbed-down inventory system).

Wait, what? The Inventory system in ME1 was an abomination and so was the equipment, getting rid of it and introducing more than four guns and armour with different useful properties was a bad thing?

It was better than having two pistols, one of which may have been better than the other but without stats how would you know? It was better than, "look! I found something I can hack! What's my prize? ... Credits, just credits". It was an RPG without a loot system. I understand that the ME inventory system was a bit much for people not used to RPGs, but to drop looting entirely was a mistake. Bioware even realized the mistake and over-compensated in ME2.

Zeriah:

Some people were upset about losing the chore of the inventory system, I do remember this. However as I said, more people liked ME2, just take a look at any poll. There was a bit of an initial circle jerk by disgruntled fans of clerk simulation. However these were always promptly interrupted by the reasonable majority. Critics liked ME2 more, fans liked ME2 more and this website likes ME2 more. Deal with it.

The Bioware is dead chants didn't really start by the reasonable person until they made their first mediocre game in Dragon Age 2.

When you're right, you're right. Nobody on this website had anything bad to say about ME2. Or let me spare a couple of minutes...

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.298202-Mass-Effect-2-convince-me
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.173771-Not-another-Mass-Effect-2-thread-Or-why-I-really-hated-ME2-despite-the-space-pants
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.381192-Poll-What-is-your-favorite-game-in-the-Mass-Effect-Trilogy?page=2
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.388323-EA-is-not-evil?page=2
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.172415-Mass-Effect-2-Thermal-clips-because-guns-were-to-fun?page=1
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/8868-What-s-Wrong-with-Mass-Effect-2
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.171095-Review-Mass-Effect-2?page=1
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.389113-OK-so-whats-it-gonna-take-to-finally-KILL-BIOWARE?page=1

Well okay there were a few dissenters.

Nimzabaat:

J Tyran:

Nimzabaat:
(oh and the completely dumbed-down inventory system).

Wait, what? The Inventory system in ME1 was an abomination and so was the equipment, getting rid of it and introducing more than four guns and armour with different useful properties was a bad thing?

It was better than having two pistols, one of which may have been better than the other but without stats how would you know? It was better than, "look! I found something I can hack! What's my prize? ... Credits, just credits". It was an RPG without a loot system. I understand that the ME inventory system was a bit much for people not used to RPGs, but to drop looting entirely was a mistake. Bioware even realized the mistake and over-compensated in ME2.

You are missing the point, ME1 had one pistol because every pistol was the same. In ME2 there may only have been two pistols at launch but again you are missing it because neither of those two pistols was "better" because they filled different roles. They where not the exact same pistol in the same 3-4 skins endlessly repeated with no real difference apart from one being a pistol mkI with +1 DPS and a pistol mkII with +2 DPS.

That is whats known as improved gameplay.

Nimzabaat:

Zeriah:

Some people were upset about losing the chore of the inventory system, I do remember this. However as I said, more people liked ME2, just take a look at any poll. There was a bit of an initial circle jerk by disgruntled fans of clerk simulation. However these were always promptly interrupted by the reasonable majority. Critics liked ME2 more, fans liked ME2 more and this website likes ME2 more. Deal with it.

The Bioware is dead chants didn't really start by the reasonable person until they made their first mediocre game in Dragon Age 2.

When you're right, you're right. Nobody on this website had anything bad to say about ME2. Or let me spare a couple of minutes...

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.298202-Mass-Effect-2-convince-me
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.173771-Not-another-Mass-Effect-2-thread-Or-why-I-really-hated-ME2-despite-the-space-pants
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.381192-Poll-What-is-your-favorite-game-in-the-Mass-Effect-Trilogy?page=2
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.388323-EA-is-not-evil?page=2
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.172415-Mass-Effect-2-Thermal-clips-because-guns-were-to-fun?page=1
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/8868-What-s-Wrong-with-Mass-Effect-2
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.171095-Review-Mass-Effect-2?page=1
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.389113-OK-so-whats-it-gonna-take-to-finally-KILL-BIOWARE?page=1

Well okay there were a few dissenters.

Good sir, those kind of threads are most common on the Escapist when games that have received massive critical acclaim as well as fan approval are released including the months proceeding. It happened with Skyrim's launch. Let's just say that the most popular in media also has the most vocal dissenters, if you will. Mass Effect 2 certainly is the most critically acclaimed of the series and not just because it had the best sales figures. It also received more awards, and fans have since praised it for fixing many of the first one's short comings. It's just the way it is.

J Tyran:

Nimzabaat:

J Tyran:

Wait, what? The Inventory system in ME1 was an abomination and so was the equipment, getting rid of it and introducing more than four guns and armour with different useful properties was a bad thing?

It was better than having two pistols, one of which may have been better than the other but without stats how would you know? It was better than, "look! I found something I can hack! What's my prize? ... Credits, just credits". It was an RPG without a loot system. I understand that the ME inventory system was a bit much for people not used to RPGs, but to drop looting entirely was a mistake. Bioware even realized the mistake and over-compensated in ME2.

You are missing the point, ME1 had one pistol because every pistol was the same. In ME2 there may only have been two pistols at launch but again you are missing it because neither of those two pistols was "better" because they filled different roles. They where not the exact same pistol in the same 3-4 skins endlessly repeated with no real difference apart from one being a pistol mkI with +1 DPS and a pistol mkII with +2 DPS.

That is whats known as improved gameplay.

So, in your mind, Borderlands would be improved if there were only 10 guns in the whole game? Diablo would be improved if there was only a dozen items for you to pick up? Let me guess, you'd write an adventure game where a player picks up "the sword" and is then done for inventory? What about being able to give your squad armour and upgrades? Optimizing your character and your team to be the best they can be is part of RPGs. Oh and ME had several different types of weapons in each category with different capabilities and better variants. Also note that they brought that back in ME3 because so many people were asking for it.

"Yay I found THE sword! Wheeee" best game evar.

TheDrunkNinja:

Nimzabaat:

Zeriah:

Some people were upset about losing the chore of the inventory system, I do remember this. However as I said, more people liked ME2, just take a look at any poll. There was a bit of an initial circle jerk by disgruntled fans of clerk simulation. However these were always promptly interrupted by the reasonable majority. Critics liked ME2 more, fans liked ME2 more and this website likes ME2 more. Deal with it.

The Bioware is dead chants didn't really start by the reasonable person until they made their first mediocre game in Dragon Age 2.

When you're right, you're right. Nobody on this website had anything bad to say about ME2. Or let me spare a couple of minutes...

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.298202-Mass-Effect-2-convince-me
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.173771-Not-another-Mass-Effect-2-thread-Or-why-I-really-hated-ME2-despite-the-space-pants
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.381192-Poll-What-is-your-favorite-game-in-the-Mass-Effect-Trilogy?page=2
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.388323-EA-is-not-evil?page=2
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.172415-Mass-Effect-2-Thermal-clips-because-guns-were-to-fun?page=1
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/8868-What-s-Wrong-with-Mass-Effect-2
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.171095-Review-Mass-Effect-2?page=1
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.389113-OK-so-whats-it-gonna-take-to-finally-KILL-BIOWARE?page=1

Well okay there were a few dissenters.

Good sir, those kind of threads are most common on the Escapist when games that have received massive critical acclaim as well as fan approval are released including the months proceeding. It happened with Skyrim's launch. Let's just say that the most popular in media also has the most vocal dissenters, if you will. Mass Effect 2 certainly is the most critically acclaimed of the series and not just because it had the best sales figures. It also received more awards, and fans have since praised it for fixing many of the first one's short comings. It's just the way it is.

Well thanks for changing your tune at least. The deceptive thing about ME2s sales figures is that they were based off of people (like me) expecting it to be an improvement over ME. Which it wasn't. And some people (like me) were upset about being duped, suckered, played for fools etc. In the only industry that does not allow returns (I wanted to give ME2 back after 30 min) not everything is black and white. But it was a big hit with the Gears of War fans!

Let the cheap prostitution of the Mass Effect brand commence. At least Shepard did not live to see it happen.

Nimzabaat:

Zeriah:

Some people were upset about losing the chore of the inventory system, I do remember this. However as I said, more people liked ME2, just take a look at any poll. There was a bit of an initial circle jerk by disgruntled fans of clerk simulation. However these were always promptly interrupted by the reasonable majority. Critics liked ME2 more, fans liked ME2 more and this website likes ME2 more. Deal with it.

The Bioware is dead chants didn't really start by the reasonable person until they made their first mediocre game in Dragon Age 2.

When you're right, you're right. Nobody on this website had anything bad to say about ME2. Or let me spare a couple of minutes...

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.298202-Mass-Effect-2-convince-me
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.173771-Not-another-Mass-Effect-2-thread-Or-why-I-really-hated-ME2-despite-the-space-pants
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.381192-Poll-What-is-your-favorite-game-in-the-Mass-Effect-Trilogy?page=2
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.388323-EA-is-not-evil?page=2
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.172415-Mass-Effect-2-Thermal-clips-because-guns-were-to-fun?page=1
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/8868-What-s-Wrong-with-Mass-Effect-2
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.171095-Review-Mass-Effect-2?page=1
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.389113-OK-so-whats-it-gonna-take-to-finally-KILL-BIOWARE?page=1

Well okay there were a few dissenters.

You know I didn't say nobody on the Escapist had anything negative to say about ME2, don't be that guy. Of course some did, there's even people that say bad things about Portal and Half-Life 2.

I don't dispute that some people, who were very into the whole "open up your menu every time you time you fight a new enemy or loot a new gun, but there's actually no real choices (except for the guns early in the game) because there's always an obviously superior option for each situation, so it all ends up being a tedious chore" thing, that liked ME1 more. I'm just saying more people overall (including on this website) felt that ME2 was an improvement over ME1.

Nimzabaat:
Well thanks for changing your tune at least. The deceptive thing about ME2s sales figures is that they were based off of people (like me) expecting it to be an improvement over ME. Which it wasn't. And some people (like me) were upset about being duped, suckered, played for fools etc. In the only industry that does not allow returns (I wanted to give ME2 back after 30 min) not everything is black and white. But it was a big hit with the Gears of War fans!

My tune? I don't know what you mean. This is the first time I've written to you.

You seem to be assuming a lot of people had the same experience as yourself, which is no doubt true, but you must also consider that many people felt the same way that the rest of us do, not just people who like Gears of War (which, I must say, is an awful generalization on your part. I personally liked ME2 far better simply for the amazing experiences, set pieces, character depth, and better role-playability overall, not just the major improvement over combat and streamlining, but that's just my opinion).

Either way, that does not deter from my original point. The more popular a game is the more vocal the dissenters will be. It happens all the time. Your accusation that ME2 suckered people into complacency to purchase it is inaccurate considering that such a wide spread negative opinion, as you claim exists, would have replicated the exact same outburst of disappointment that people felt toward the Dragon Age series over the mediocre Dragon Age 2. After the wide spread disapproval of Dragon Age's sequel, people have doubted the entire series and are already calling out failure for the third entry.

This did not happen with the Mass Effect series. People were excited for the third one, overjoyed even. You did not see any doubters saying "It will probably suck, just like the last one", and if there were, they were clearly in the minority.

Mass Effect 2 has gotten scads of accolades, praises, and overall acceptance. Your opinion that it was the worst in the series is a valid one, but it is not one that is shared by general public. And it isn't because we're "idiot Gears of War fans". Such callous judgements only show distasteful ignorance on your part, sir.

As I said, it's just the way it is.

EDIT: Problems posting. Move along...

Nimzabaat:
snip

There was an odd error when I quoted you. Read my response above this post, please.

Apologies for the double post.

Duffeknol:
Could not give two shits about the gameplay, as long as they hire people who can actually WRITE a damn COHERENT story.

Why don't you read a book, if you do not care about gameplay?

CrossLOPER:

Duffeknol:
Could not give two shits about the gameplay, as long as they hire people who can actually WRITE a damn COHERENT story.

Why don't you read a book, if you do not care about gameplay?

Because I like my stories to be interactive ;)

TheDrunkNinja:

Nimzabaat:
Well thanks for changing your tune at least. The deceptive thing about ME2s sales figures is that they were based off of people (like me) expecting it to be an improvement over ME. Which it wasn't. And some people (like me) were upset about being duped, suckered, played for fools etc. In the only industry that does not allow returns (I wanted to give ME2 back after 30 min) not everything is black and white. But it was a big hit with the Gears of War fans!

My tune? I don't know what you mean. This is the first time I've written to you.

You seem to be assuming a lot of people had the same experience as yourself, which is no doubt true, but you must also consider that many people felt the same way that the rest of us do, not just people who like Gears of War (which, I must say, is an awful generalization on your part. I personally liked ME2 far better simply for the amazing experiences, set pieces, character depth, and better role-playability overall, not just the major improvement over combat and streamlining, but that's just my opinion).

Either way, that does not deter from my original point. The more popular a game is the more vocal the dissenters will be. It happens all the time. Your accusation that ME2 suckered people into complacency to purchase it is inaccurate considering that such a wide spread negative opinion, as you claim exists, would have replicated the exact same outburst of disappointment that people felt toward the Dragon Age series over the mediocre Dragon Age 2. After the wide spread disapproval of Dragon Age's sequel, people have doubted the entire series and are already calling out failure for the third entry.

This did not happen with the Mass Effect series. People were excited for the third one, overjoyed even. You did not see any doubters saying "It will probably suck, just like the last one", and if there were, they were clearly in the minority.

Mass Effect 2 has gotten scads of accolades, praises, and overall acceptance. Your opinion that it was the worst in the series is a valid one, but it is not one that is shared by general public. And it isn't because we're "idiot Gears of War fans". Such callous judgements only show distasteful ignorance on your part, sir.

As I said, it's just the way it is.

Mass Effect 2 blatantly ripped off the "roadie run" from Gears of War. It was a Gears of War THING. Blatant rip-off is blatant. Um... yeah I can't make that any clearer.

Oh and a funny thing that actually happened. Bioware had so little confidence in ME2 that they dropped the price to $40 dollars within a month or two of launch to get the sales figures up. Which worked in that ME2s sales UNITS through PC and Xbox were almost as high as ME (3.05 million for ME, 3.01 million for ME2), but the revenues weren't. True story.

And are you implying that I was the only one that missed the inventory system? So Bioware brought it back in ME3 just for me? Are you saying that I, the lone dissenting voice was THAT important to them? That they received no other complaints at all? Wow. I'm going to revel in how special that makes me feel. Thank you.

wombat_of_war:
most bioware employees these days are just freelance contractors so you dont get the same staff continuing with products. im not suprised they are releasing substandard work

Well, actually, a large chunk of ME/ME2's core staff members left just before or during ME3's production. The man who programmed a large majority of the dialogue wheel conversations (his first name was Armando), Brent Knowles, Karpyshyn and a ton of others left, leaving Hudson and Walters as the only two senior members who had anything major to do with the original game.

Couple that with my argument that the team's goals for 3 were so lofty that there wasn't a chance in hell they'd finish it to the extent they wanted, and the fact that EA (being EA) forced monetization schemes/big marketing dollars into the project meant it was never going to turn out as well as the designers hoped. It's just another blip in the downward spiral for BW - if they had any confidence whatsoever in their product, they would have kept it with the core team in Edmonton, not ported it to the other side of the country.

Sir, you seem to be arguing with someone else, either that or you're reading my words and other words are taking their place in your mind. First that odd bit about changing my tune despite never having addressed you previously, now... well, everything you wrote here.

Nimzabaat:
Mass Effect 2 blatantly ripped off the "roadie run" from Gears of War. It was a Gears of War THING. Blatant rip-off is blatant. Um... yeah I can't make that any clearer.

I made no mention of any Gears of War "roadie run". I don't play Gears of War and have never heard of it in anything Mass Effect related. If it is a ripoff, then it is the first time I've ever heard of it, thus I have no opinion on it. Either way, the only thing Gears of War related that I mentioned was the fact that you seemed to be so rooted in believing that the only people who like Mass Effect 2 are the lowly Gears of War fans that you think so poorly of. And again, I will say that your opinion of Mass Effect 2, while valid, is not shared by the general public, and it is not because everyone who likes Mass Effect 2 is one of those "stupid Gears fans" that your ignorant judgements have led you to believe so readily. And I still find such a judgement to be distasteful as you have yet to say you think otherwise, sir.

Nimzabaat:
Oh and a funny thing that actually happened. Bioware had so little confidence in ME2 that they dropped the price to $40 dollars within a month or two of launch to get the sales figures up. Which worked in that ME2s sales UNITS through PC and Xbox were almost as high as ME (3.05 million for ME, 3.01 million for ME2), but the revenues weren't. True story.

If you don't mind me asking, I do question the validity of the "true story" that you just claimed. I don't recall such a radical price drop, nor would one make any sense on Bioware's part considering in the first week of release Mass Effect 2 had incredible financial success. You were eager to give links as proof of your argument (though they were easily dismissed considering the context that they were put in), and I gave you the courtesy of backing up my claim of Mass Effect 2 having the best sales of the three.

If you would be so kind as to back up your argument that Mass Effect 2 was doing so poorly that they had to drop the price to $40 within the first month, I would gratefully concede to your point.

Nimzabaat:
And are you implying that I was the only one that missed the inventory system? So Bioware brought it back in ME3 just for me? Are you saying that I, the lone dissenting voice was THAT important to them? That they received no other complaints at all? Wow. I'm going to revel in how special that makes me feel. Thank you.

Now, this last point is one that made me extremely perplexed at the whole post and thus led me to believe that you must have been confused when you wrote it. It surprised me when you started making these wild accusations that I believed that you were the only one with complaints or that the game was infallible in any way. I recall stating quite clearly:

You seem to be assuming a lot of people had the same experience as yourself, which is no doubt true, but you must also consider that many people felt the same way that the rest of us do, not just people who like Gears of War.

I never denied that you were the "only one". Nor did I deny that your complaints were in anyway invalid:

Your opinion that it was the worst in the series is a valid one, but it is not one that is shared by general public.

My entire point is that not being the "only one" with a complaint about a game does not mean the game is a critical failure. All games receive criticism and complaints. To think otherwise is foolhardy. But as I said multiple times already, the games with the most critical reception always have the most vocal dissenters.

I would like to clarify myself since you seem to keep making these radical assumptions about me and what I'm trying to say. I am not saying that Mass Effect 2 is the best in the series. Liking one game more than the other is a subjective opinion. What I am saying is that Mass Effect 2 is the one with the most overall critical success and acceptance among the general public. That is all I'm arguing, and the fact that anyone would deny this clear and obvious fact puzzles me. It's fine that you didn't like the game, that's not what is being discussed.

Barring all that, you still never addressed any of my other points such as my Dragon Age comparison and started arguing a completely different argument as if you couldn't come up with any counterpoints and decided to ignore them all together. If you decide to respond to this post, at least address some the points I've presented before you tangent in another direction again, otherwise don't expect an answer from me. I'd hate to have to clarify all of this all over again.

He also admitted that "it's probably going to be quite awhile" before the team has any meaningful details about Mass Effect 4 (or whatever it ends up being called) to share.

I don't trust any development studio that believes "awhile" is actually a word.

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