US Military Testing Jet-Mounted Lasers in 2014

 Pages PREV 1 2 3
 

LtWigglesworth:
[quote="Spartan448" post="7.399767.16419235"]
-snip of Zeus-

But the points you state are exactly why it's important that we continue developing these lasers. Theoretically, if we built a laser powerfull enough, it could be very easy to penetrate the warheads. There's only so much armor you can put on something that needs to explode without restricting it's blast radius. If the targets can be identified before they split, than you could theoretically have emplacements in position to track and destroy them as they split, in theory, destroying one in midair and causing it to detonate should take care of at least some others. In terms of Russia's nearly 3000 warheads, the more warheads you launch, the more crowded the airspace is, meaning it's easier to take out the nuclear attack by using heat to induce midair detonations where they won't affect civilian populations.

In addition, you point out that neither China or Russia has cause, nor the stupidity required to actually start a nuclear war. Lasers at this point in time are more for defending against smaller nations like NK and Iran, which would launch a nuke given the chance, NK just to show that it's still relevant, and Iran would probably launch one at Israel. I do not think that any of the Arab nations have gotten over the whole "eliminate the nation of Israel" thing. In addition, giving laser defense platforms to India and Pakistan would prevent them from going nuclear on each other.

Yes, at this stage in the game, a laser is not the best weapon for nuclear payload interception. However, going into the future, lasers are going to be an important part of making nuclear weapons obsolete, and making the world a safer place (No-one can launch artillery/missile strikes at each other if the shells and rockets get shot down each time).

Also, it's cool to be able to say "Guess what??? WE HAVE LAZORS N00B!!1!!!11!!!!1!!!"

Spartan448:
snip

1) There is no way that heating a nuclear warhead will cause it to explode. That is pure fantasy. For a nuke to detonate the explosives and explosive lenses that surround the first fission stage must detonate at precisely the right time. If you manage to destroy one incoming warhead with laser, no matter how powerful that laser is, you will only destroy that one.

2) The energy released by a nuke is huge. You could give it the armour of a tank and it wouldn't reduce the blast radius. Infact it would likely become more deadly as you now have ,say, another tonne of radioactive particles as fallout.

Unfortunately, the odds are skewed in favour of the attacker in the ICBM/ ICBM defence game

TornadoADV:

Do4600:

TornadoADV:

LASERs flash boil fluid in the surrounding tissue of the burnt away flesh. People hit with powerful enough LASERs will pop literally like bloody zits.

That's just silly, the heat from a laser is localized and not nearly powerful enough to cause that. People are hit by average lightning bolts that are 2,500 times more powerful than that laser and escape with a few third degree burns, and lightning heats the surrounding air to 54,000 degrees Fahrenheit. The LIPC would cause more damage than these lasers.

LASERs are sustained, directed light. Lightning is instantaneous, random electricity. What makes the human body resistant against sudden heat changes (heat sink in terms of water mass in the body), becomes a liability in sustained heat changes. A LASER will literally boil a person alive inside their own skin before bursting.

Well, we can actually calculate what it would take to boil a human alive. If the average person is 70kg, and we assume that we're only heating the water till it turns to steam, that person is 70% water. So we have a total of 49kg of water to heat.

Starting from an initial temperature of 37C. To heat up to 100C would require 263 kJ, or 0.263 seconds standing in front of a 1MW laser, assuming all heat is transferred to the body, and distributed evenly. To boil the person would require an additional 81.6 MW. So for a 1MW laser to make a person boil and pop like a zit you'd have to keep it on them for almost a minute and a half. At least.

Shooting people is easier.

I should really have rolled these all into one, but never mind...

I think a nuclear free world is a fantasy. The cat is out of the box and the tremendous force multiplier that a nuke is means that we'll never put the cat back in.
As soon as NK (which has them) or Iran get a nuke, they become a country of some gravity. No-one would give a shit about NK if it wasn't for the nuclear program.
So as smaller states get them the traditional powers will want to keep a reduced arsenal as a deterrence.
And NK's generals like to live and they realise that as soon as they launch, they will die in a retaliation. To stay relevant they can keep testing weapons in mines and failing at missile tests. It keeps them relevant without getting them turned to radioactive ash.

LtWigglesworth:

TornadoADV:

Do4600:
That's just silly, the heat from a laser is localized and not nearly powerful enough to cause that. People are hit by average lightning bolts that are 2,500 times more powerful than that laser and escape with a few third degree burns, and lightning heats the surrounding air to 54,000 degrees Fahrenheit. The LIPC would cause more damage than these lasers.

LASERs are sustained, directed light. Lightning is instantaneous, random electricity. What makes the human body resistant against sudden heat changes (heat sink in terms of water mass in the body), becomes a liability in sustained heat changes. A LASER will literally boil a person alive inside their own skin before bursting.

Well, we can actually calculate what it would take to boil a human alive. If the average person is 70kg, and we assume that we're only heating the water till it turns to steam, that person is 70% water. So we have a total of 49kg of water to heat.

Starting from an initial temperature of 37C. To heat up to 100C would require 263 kJ, or 0.263 seconds standing in front of a 1MW laser, assuming all heat is transferred to the body, and distributed evenly. To boil the person would require an additional 81.6 MW. So for a 1MW laser to make a person boil and pop like a zit you'd have to keep it on them for almost a minute and a half. At least.

Shooting people is easier.

But that's the rub, you're not trying to heat all the water, just the water in the local area will boil off almost instantly, causing hideous wounds as the flesh quickly expands and explodes, exploding limbs off bodies, popping heads and causing guts to burst.

TornadoADV:

But that's the rub, you're not trying to heat all the water, just the water in the local area will boil off almost instantly, causing hideous wounds as the flesh quickly expands and explodes, exploding limbs off bodies, popping heads and causing guts to burst.

That's assuming:
a) significant penetration by the laser.
b) No charring that reduces damage.
c) no transfer of heat away from site of impact.
d) That the human skin somehow contains the steam that has built up allowing a small steam explosion.

What you will have is a small, but deep, charred wound and severe burns in the near vicinity. The lethality will depend on where it hits; Head, neck, lung/heart region - severe injuries, likely fatal. Limbs and extremities - damage to limbs, incapacitation, need for medevac.

If you want to make people pop, then for an aircraft or AFV you'd be better off with a 30mm autocannon firing HE rounds. It would be cheaper, more reliable, more durable, and probably lighter than a laser with all the necessary energy storage. Plus it'll sound more terrifying.

LtWigglesworth:

TornadoADV:

But that's the rub, you're not trying to heat all the water, just the water in the local area will boil off almost instantly, causing hideous wounds as the flesh quickly expands and explodes, exploding limbs off bodies, popping heads and causing guts to burst.

That's assuming:
a) significant penetration by the laser.
b) No charring that reduces damage.
c) no transfer of heat away from site of impact.
d) That the human skin somehow contains the steam that has built up allowing a small steam explosion.

What you will have is a small, but deep, charred wound and severe burns in the near vicinity. The lethality will depend on where it hits; Head, neck, lung/heart region - severe injuries, likely fatal. Limbs and extremities - damage to limbs, incapacitation, need for medevac.

If you want to make people pop, then for an aircraft or AFV you'd be better off with a 30mm autocannon firing HE rounds. It would be cheaper, more reliable, more durable, and probably lighter than a laser with all the necessary energy storage. Plus it'll sound more terrifying.

I would say silence would be almost as terrifying as loud noises.

You are standing around talking to Joe and Tim, suddenly Joe drops with a smoking hole in his head, no sound, no warning, then Tim drops next a second later.

I would be shitting myself personally :P

Spartan448:

You Can't Take the Sky From Me:

Spartan448:
An AR-15 isn't going to be much help against an ICBM with a nuclear payload. The whole lazors things is mostly about developing a defensive platform for feasable use in defending against nuclear payloads, without much risk to the environment because of atomic radiation. With North Korea and Iran getting closer and closer to nukes, and getting more belligerant by the second, developing something that can safely and reliably shoot down a nuke is the differance between a feasable way to finally phase-out nuclear weapons (due to being obsolete), and some idiot lighting a match and starting a global nuclear war.

Also, adapting lasers for smaller platforms means a drone strike can be a precise thing instead of "We'll bomb this village and hope that the blast wave, fireball, and shrapnel don't kill all of the children this time."

Hey you, Spartan guy, stop ruining everyone's good, clean, American bashing by bringing logic and likely outcomes of developing technology into the debate. All is does is make you look reasonable and this is the Internet there's no place for reason here, dammit!

*Takes a bow*

Sir, you are correct, this IS the Internet. And what, my good friend, is more appropriate for the internet than causing chaps such as your good self to inexplicably become irritated when someone dares to use reason? Is it not true that the point of doing this on the internet is for the most part "For teh lulz"? It is times like these, when I read reactions like yours, that I put my feet on the table, adjust my top hat and monicle, pour myself a glass of Chateau Piccard, circa 2360, and enjoy the lulz that those reactions bring me. I then chuckle to myself and ask my butler Jeeves to ready my flying 24-karat gold Ferrari so that I will not be late for my dinner meeting with all past, present, and future world leaders and discuss various things that people who do not use reason on the internet are forbidden to hear.

You, I like you, even if you do insist on using logic on the internet. You at least seem to understand that a) Lasers on fighter jets is cool, and b) this is only the beginning, and that this is probably going somewhere. Also Chateau Piccard is overrated, go with Chateau d'Kirk or Janeway Estates, they're far less bossy.

FelixG:
[

I would say silence would be almost as terrifying as loud noises.

You are standing around talking to Joe and Tim, suddenly Joe drops with a smoking hole in his head, no sound, no warning, then Tim drops next a second later.

I would be shitting myself personally :P

Haha well I would too. But loud noises can also stun and disorient, which is always useful.

Besides, a laser as a main weapon would be extremely vulnerable to small arms fire and shrapnel. Against a small shitty enemy like taliban insurgents, or the Iraqi army, that might not be a major difficulty, but against someone who understands the idea of combined arms those lenses would be at great risk of being cracked or shattered in an artillery barrage.

LtWigglesworth:

TornadoADV:

But that's the rub, you're not trying to heat all the water, just the water in the local area will boil off almost instantly, causing hideous wounds as the flesh quickly expands and explodes, exploding limbs off bodies, popping heads and causing guts to burst.

That's assuming:
a) significant penetration by the laser.
b) No charring that reduces damage.
c) no transfer of heat away from site of impact.
d) That the human skin somehow contains the steam that has built up allowing a small steam explosion.

What you will have is a small, but deep, charred wound and severe burns in the near vicinity. The lethality will depend on where it hits; Head, neck, lung/heart region - severe injuries, likely fatal. Limbs and extremities - damage to limbs, incapacitation, need for medevac.

If you want to make people pop, then for an aircraft or AFV you'd be better off with a 30mm autocannon firing HE rounds. It would be cheaper, more reliable, more durable, and probably lighter than a laser with all the necessary energy storage. Plus it'll sound more terrifying.

Human skin is incredibly flexible and plaint, if it wasn't, women couldn't hold fetuses inside their wombs for one, nor could you grow muscle mass too fast or risk splitting your own skin. (Talk about a new meaning on "Getting Ripped"!)

LtWigglesworth:

Haha well I would too. But loud noises can also stun and disorient, which is always useful.

Besides, a laser as a main weapon would be extremely vulnerable to small arms fire and shrapnel. Against a small shitty enemy like taliban insurgents, or the Iraqi army, that might not be a major difficulty, but against someone who understands the idea of combined arms those lenses would be at great risk of being cracked or shattered in an artillery barrage.

That's why they are being put on aircraft and as PDLs for emplaced positions. You can put a THEL on top of the mobile LASER to intercept incoming artillery and bombs or the simple thing of having an armored shutter to protect from fragmentation.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here