U.S. Senator Says Violent Games Are "Practice Simulators"

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I'll tell you right now that after all this nonsense she won't get another vote from me. I emailed her, which I recommend everyone who cares to do, especially if you live in California and vote. I told her (her office really) that I have voted for her in the past but that these kinds of first amendment issues are voting issues for me and if she takes this pandering too far she'll not be getting anymore votes from me.
Not that I would vote for her republican rival, but I could happily leave that part of the ballot blank.

America, the only country where politicians will fight tooth and nail to allow Billy Redneck to keep his guns but claim violent video games to be a menace.

Oh, Feinstein, you crazy old lady. Sad part is when you keep in mind that these are the sort of people who make laws for real things...

Gecko clown:
America, the only country where politicians will fight tooth and nail to allow Billy Redneck to keep his guns but claim violent video games to be a menace.

Had to say this in an earlier thread, but she is in fact the author of the currently proposed Assault Weapons ban.

You stay classy now, Senator Feinstein.

:(

Shit, she's probably going after nerf now since they have tactical rails, magazines, laser sights and belt feeding nerf darts. Nerf guns are like the next step, once you learn digitally, you practice with nerf then you get the real bullets!

NERF OR NUTTIN'

WaitWHAT:
Grammar Nazi that I am, I can't help notice that the term "practice simulator" is completely redundant. It means a simulator in which you rehearse....practicing itself. You practice the art of practising. You sit down at your computer and repeatedly do the same thing over and over, and that thing is....practising. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?!?! It's like an infinite loop where you repeatedly do something over and over, and that thing is repeatedly doing something over and over and that thing is repeatedly doing something over and over and that thing is repeatedly doing something over and over and that thing is repeatedly doing something over and over and that thing is repeatedly doing something over and over and

image

*Deep breath*

It's fine. I'm OK now. Just gimme a minute here.

I've been spectacularly ninja'd. Heil WaitWHAT.

OT: What bullshit. Videogames don't even come close to simulating real life, making them ineffective as practice for mass murder. Furthermore, there are books and websites that give you FAR more information than a game. But there's no use reasoning with these people. All we can do is wait until she and her opinions die of old age.

Chemical Alia:
I dunno...I shot some real guns when I was in the army, and I've played a few games with guns in them (even worked on a few!). I wouldn't consider them comparable experiences. At all.

NONSENSE!

without video games i would have never learned to drive a tank, to fly an airplane and a helicopter, be able to shoot an explosive device on the ground and thus avoiding everyday the crowded elevator in the morning or use a gun in case a common suprise terrorist attack occurs.

i couldnt even do a simple vanguard biotic charge to reach my destinations in time!

you are either a liar or a casual gamer!
confess!

Azex:
I wonder what retarded things the people of power will complain about once all these old fools have died off and all there positions are held by the current generation.

About future forms of entertainment that their kids and grandkids are into? Matrix-like VR/ Holodecks?

Every generation has this belief that their standards are the right ones and that the youth is somehow misguided/ foolish. Oftentimes they attribute their "being right" to being older (more life experience), completely forgetting that by the same logic their parents were right and they shouldn't have been smoking pot, listening to rock-n'-roll and having premarital sex. All of which they did anyway. But now they are "old and wise".

Rogue 09:

I would feel better if we just had randomly selected people picked up off the street and forced to serve to two years...

I believe that is actually a form of democracy that exists. I think it was the ancient greeks who used to randomly select citizens to serve a term of office, like a jury duty, rather than let people who WANTED to be in power have that power. On paper it sounds like a better system, stops any individual politicians getting re-elected too often and gaining too much sway on matters, prevents corruption from those who only want to be in power for their own ends, gives the common people more chance to make changes, and the shorter terms of office means that if an individual is no good or doesn't care about their position, well, no worries, they'll soon be gone and someone else takes over.

Wish I could remember the specific name for that type of system.

This again? Idiotic! Violent people are drawn to violent media, sensible people can tell between entertainment and committing actual crime.

In other news, the media forgets to "Not feed the troll(z)." In reality, politicians like the good senator here are just like internet trolls. They live to get attention from ridiculous and asinine comments like this thinking it will help them win re-election. In all honesty I forget almost everything that comes out of this womans mouth shortly after she says it, or I chalk it up as the ramblings of an delusional, out of touch individual pandering to fear and attempting demonize that which she does not understand.

I would recommend the Senator spends some time learning about scientific method and how one actually proves a thesis. Yanno, with actual emperical evidence? That same evidence that is sorely lacking proving a link between violence in games and violence IRL. Which brings me to rule #2 (that I follow in life) Never argue with an idiot; they will only drag you down to their level then beat you with their experience.

Wait, we're talking about this Dianne Feinstein, right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jy04ACD030

So, not exactly a new feeling.

So video games are practice simulators. What exactly does that make shooting ranges? Or hell, even paintball/airsoft guns.

Why did the US pick Umbridge as a senator?

Coming up next, an announcement that violent movies are "training videos", violent books are "instruction manuals for terrorists", and violent music is "indoctrination media".

...except that she's likely only in power because those media paid to put her there, so she won't dare speak out against the corporate arm shoved up her ass.

So let me get this straight:
Senators are blaming gun crime on games, not the fact that these nutters can legally own guns in the first place?
That makes sense,

If video games trained you to do anything, then my obsessive playing of Harvest Moon and Animal Crossing would have made me a millionaire by now.

I've been playing violent games since I was 4-5 years old, and I don't know anything about guns. After all the time I spent playing Battlefield 2, she must think that I'm an expert helicopter pilot by now.

MeChaNiZ3D:

WaitWHAT:
Grammar Nazi that I am, I can't help notice that the term "practice simulator" is completely redundant. It means a simulator in which you rehearse....practicing itself. You practice the art of practising. You sit down at your computer and repeatedly do the same thing over and over, and that thing is....practising. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?!?! It's like an infinite loop where you repeatedly do something over and over, and that thing is repeatedly doing something over and over and that thing is repeatedly doing something over and over and that thing is repeatedly doing something over and over and that thing is repeatedly doing something over and over and that thing is repeatedly doing something over and over and

image

*Deep breath*

It's fine. I'm OK now. Just gimme a minute here.

I've been spectacularly ninja'd. Heil WaitWHAT.

OT: What bullshit. Videogames don't even come close to simulating real life, making them ineffective as practice for mass murder. Furthermore, there are books and websites that give you FAR more information than a game. But there's no use reasoning with these people. All we can do is wait until she and her opinions die of old age.

Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Grammar!

image

OT: Everyone knows its TVs fault, TV is a gateway drug for games, if it wasnt for TV those darned kids wouldnt nevera got into them 'practice simulator' vidya games.

Ashadowpie:
if violent video games are Practice Simulators, then why oh why am i afraid of guns? i live in Canada and have only seen a gun once and it from a cop, i was more afraid of the gun 20 feet away from me than the actual reason why there was a cop armed with one! i didnt feel safe at all, quite the opposite. honestly, i would have felt safer if the cop wasnt armed

All my games have violence in them, from stabbing to shooting to hanging them with wire and i cant even punch someone in the face if i wanted too. im no fighter believe me. too top it off as a "potential threat" i was even bullied my entire childhood for being unattractive and nerdy and i still would never want to harm anyone.

but then again, hate to say but the US is pretty screwed up, what with the loss of jobs, sanity, the abundance of guns and desensitized children surrounded by the damn things, and mounting debts of course you're going to have maniacs flooding in.

by the way, i was grade 11 and there was a dude with a "pipe" threatening to hit another kid, the cops came and blah blah, kid didnt even have a pipe, he was just lying. idiocy. the cops were armed with those big scary assault guns, dunno what they were, and i hope i never seen one ever again. * shudders *

and here i play Hitman, sneaking behind an innocent human, silently strangling him slowly with a wire, all this with a grin on my twisted face. . .interesting...Heheh

The thing is, not everyone is afraid of them like you are. I grew up shooting and the first thing my dad taught me about them is to respect them. Always practice the rules of firearms safety and you have nothing to worry about. They are inanimate objects, they will not act on their own.

Atmos Duality:

Chemical Alia:
I dunno...I shot some real guns when I was in the army, and I've played a few games with guns in them (even worked on a few!). I wouldn't consider them comparable experiences. At all.

Wait wait...you mean video games do not build the required muscle memory and physical experience for becoming proficient with firearms?!

What a stunning revelation!

For once in my life, I am at the forefront of scientific discovery! My parents will be pleased.

rhizhim:

NONSENSE!

without video games i would have never learned to drive a tank, to fly an airplane and a helicopter, be able to shoot an explosive device on the ground and thus avoiding everyday the crowded elevator in the morning or use a gun in case a common suprise terrorist attack occurs.

i couldnt even do a simple vanguard biotic charge to reach my destinations in time!

you are either a liar or a casual gamer!
confess!

My most useful, favoritest real life skill that video games taught me is is how to suck up ghosts with a vacuum cleaner. Strangely though, for all the Commander Keen I've played, I still can't figure out a pogo stick.

I.Muir:
Or maybe, just maybe
Everybody could have politicians that got the facts together before they decide to mess with things they don't understand. You know sit down and think 'what could the implications of my actions be?' or maybe 'is this the only possible cause to this problem?'.

I think you underestimate how much politicians actually do think about those questions. The thing is, you always need to strike a balance between what different groups of people think. And if you think you would be able to make any kind of move as politician without alienating some special-interest group, then have right at it. But I think you'll find that there will always be some demographic which makes you out as being incompetent.
Now, that's just the way things are, but that doesn't mean that it's good thing to attack that politicians' competence. Sometimes it's valid, sure, but mostly it just harms the democratic process by dragging down the debate. Personally, I might not agree with all of Feinstein's ideas, but she's obviously a smart woman and it shows; she's the most popular U.S. senator of the times. I think you should cut her some slack and not portray her as a fool just because we disagree with her on one specific issue.

Terramax:
The military trains people to kill too.

Lets ban those.

Basically that statement implicitly concedes the point that violent games train people to kill. And assuming that you're being sarcastic, you're also saying that it's fine for video games to do that, because the military does it too. Just... think about this kind of stuff before you post it... I do like your avatar though. :-)

FalloutJack:

Jaden Kazega:
Pokey

May I just say that experience is the greater teacher, though? You might learn OF certain actions or tactics in media, or hell even the internet, but that is only the intellectual side. I watched Bruce Lee and Cowboy Bebop, finding that I really like Jeet Kune Do as a means to defend one's self. More to the point, I like its mindset a great deal. However, knowing it and doing it are two different things. Seeing it allowed me to force a guy in excess of 300 pounds into a wall, yes, but the level of coordination of the people I watched could never be matched without real training. I know I can fire a rifle straight because I have, and no amount of simulation will reproduce that...and tactics attached to that will only serve after practicing a few times for real.

Oh yea, obviously: when I said, "I learned some basic military-esque tactics I would not know about today if not for video games", I was meaning some really REALLY basic 101 stuff. Like what a pincer attack is and such. There is a huge difference between technical training and manipulative training. lol

Without sounding like I wish death upon an old lady; I think there'll be a shift in the status quo after 10-20 years pass from now, and today's politicians are either dead or no longer in power. Hopefully, the new batch will be less hypocritical and liable to idiotic blaming of pretty harmless virtual entertainment.
And hey, how come she didn't call The Godfather a horse-decapitation simulator? Plus, she really has to hate abbout 90% of all the films made since the 80's, right? They're just as much 'practice simulators' as games. Same with TV series and books.
But she'd never pick on entertainment media that has entwined itself into the cultural consciousness and thus popularity, now would she? Nope, because she knows she'd be called out on her bullshit.

Another old cook telling me how Call of Duty totally tells impresonable teenagers how to use a gun and Grand Theft Auto totally tells them out to shoot down police helicopters with RPGs? Really? God I've been waiting a long time for a chance to use this photo

image

Farther than stars:

I.Muir:
Or maybe, just maybe
Everybody could have politicians that got the facts together before they decide to mess with things they don't understand. You know sit down and think 'what could the implications of my actions be?' or maybe 'is this the only possible cause to this problem?'.

I think you underestimate how much politicians actually do think about those questions. The thing is, you always need to strike a balance between what different groups of people think. And if you think you would be able to make any kind of move as politician without alienating some special-interest group, then have right at it. But I think you'll find that there will always be some demographic which makes you out as being incompetent.
Now, that's just the way things are, but that doesn't mean that it's good thing to attack that politicians' competence. Sometimes it's valid, sure, but mostly it just harms the democratic process by dragging down the debate. Personally, I might not agree with all of Feinstein's ideas, but she's obviously a smart woman and it shows; she's the most popular U.S. senator of the times. I think you should cut her some slack and not portray her as a fool just because we disagree with her on one specific issue.

Terramax:
The military trains people to kill too.

Lets ban those.

Basically that statement implicitly concedes the point that violent games train people to kill. And assuming that you're being sarcastic, you're also saying that it's fine for video games to do that, because the military does it too. Just... think about this kind of stuff before you post it... I do like your avatar though. :-)

Can a person make a competent decision regarding something they appear to know very little about, will not likely learn about or maybe even refuse to learn having written it off already? This senator might be a smart person but that does not mean she isn't making a dumb decision nor does it mean she has thought THIS issue through. I would not call the gaming community small at this point and it defiantly handles quite a lot of money. Trying to come down on video games would mess with more than a few companies and likely cost a lot people their jobs. Has she really thought this through and knowing this go ahead and attempt to interfere based on the mere speculation that video games only might be a trigger for violence by only a few individuals amongst tens of thousands.

Also what does train to kill really mean anyway? Merely learning to use a gun can be considered training to kill. It does not imply that the individual trained in the use of firearms will go and kill. However when video games are brought into the picture it seems more likely that they believe we are being actively conditioned to go and kill people. I cannot comprehend anybody actually believing any organization would attempt to intentionally do this for no good reason so I assume they mean this is some sort of deadly side effect. With that in mind there is very little correlation between violence in reality and violence in games and no evidence of causation whatsoever. So why then say such an unfounded statement? It may very well be just another person who fears something they don't understand and too old to try at their time of life. If that is the case how likely are they to make an unbiased and informed decision which would be using that intelligence they apparently posses.

You do not need to point out to me that the values of one group might contradict the values of another in politics.

I'm fine with video game regulation, if not outright censorship, but the fact that the initial problem (Videlicet, the tragic school shootings that are becoming all too frequent) isn't really being addressed peeves me. Oh, no, there's no need to look into the bullying, abuse, or other psychologically harmful factors in the perpetrator's environment. There's no need for counseling or trying to help those involved before they can't take it anymore. It's clearly the video games that are doing it. Hey, why should we regulate guns or try to prevent children from gaining access to them, when they only kill people because of video games?

I'm not saying that video games are wholesome. They're not. It's a form of media, and you're going to get games that shouldn't be sold to children. But if video games could desensitize people to killing, the military would have offered Microsoft a contract for a new, top secret Xbox.

She's just a meddling baby-boomer that is incapable of understanding any entertainment that isn't chasing a hoop down the street with a stick. We have maybe just another ten years before that whole rotten generation are finally gone. Ignore them until then.

I.Muir:
So why then say such an unfounded statement? It may very well be just another person who fears something they don't understand and too old to try at their time of life. If that is the case how likely are they to make an unbiased and informed decision which would be using that intelligence they apparently posses.

And that's my point. She "may very well be just another person who fears something [she] doesn't understand", but that's an assumption on your part. She may also have made that unbiased and informed decision, but just because it falls out against your side, you dismiss her as being "too old to try [and understand] at [her] time of life". And speaking of biases, that last part is just slander, plain and simple.

I suppose there's always going to be another Jack Thompson. At least until the next big thing comes along that surpasses those evil satanic video games as the blame of our problems.

It's amazing to me with the amount of stabbings that are going on that people aren't more concerned about mental illness in general, instead of blaming the violence on objects.

Rex Dark:
Also... Am I the only one who thinks she looks like professor Umbridge?

I was wondering why she looks so disturbing to me! She's like an older real-life version of that character.

Some of the most heinous murderers stem from the days of Pong.
Some of the worst war criminals precede video games altogether.

To combat violence, you do not aim at things such as books, games and expressions of ideas and speech...you need to target what is fundamentally wrong in the first place. Human nature. You can't eradicate it entirely (there will always be violence so long as there is sentient life), but you can make existence more tolerable.

Why do children turn down the wrong paths in life?
Why are some families horrendously poor? Why is there abuse? Why is there bullying? Why must some live in constant fear? Why are the mentally ill despised and alienated? Those are the questions that you must first find a concrete answer to and then rectify to the best of your ability. All it takes to kill someone is a reason, however petty that reason may be.

I'm fairly certain that guns too are not the issue, but a means to an end.
In a utopia, everyone could be armed to the teeth and you'd be seeing one spur of the moment shooting or drunken mishap every decade or so because the average person wouldn't have the need or desire to turn their gun on a fellow citizen. But alas, the states is no utopia nor is any area of the world. It is much easier to look at the things further down the line and ignore the real causation; because we may be to blame. Did the passing of my legislation drive this man to commit suicide? No, he was just mentally ill and a statistic. Did the apathy towards bullying lead to this suicide/shooting? No, that tyke just played video games.

That's my two cents on the issue.
I don't really care if politicians link games to violence, because they probably can contribute just as any other expressive medium, but I do get flustered when they exhibit such gross ignorance as to what really drags this world down. Focusing down the little things as they do is just lazy.

Farther than stars:

BoogieManFL:

--snip--

I think a more important question is whether it's even possible to be objective about this kind of thing. There's a fun Douglas Adams quote: "Anything that is in the world when you're born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works. Anything that's invented between when you're fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things."
By that logic there will probably be some new trend, by the time we're Feinstein's age, which we don't fully understand and doesn't fit in our own view of the world. My point being: we're all affected by biases dependent on what age group we're in. And I don't think it's fair or legitimate to fault someone for something which we're all susceptible to.

You're reading far to much in to the one aspect of my post, it's something meant more in passing than how I genuinely believe. I am just sick of idiots running the show. I'm tired of people spouting off nonsense that is outright wrong and is in no way a proven fact. However what I said seems more likely than people being forced to retire for being an idiot as sad as that is.

There have been people with something wrong in there head going off and killing a bunch of people long before guns existed, and centuries before video games existed. Comic books used to be the devil. Dungeons and Dragons used to be the devil. Now video games are the devil. I find it infuriating how someone can jump up a take a stance of something they personally know nothing about and aren't even using any factual data to justify it.

I don't know about you, but having people like that in important positions in our society is shocking to say the least.

WHY is it so DAMN hard for these people to look at the real fact that some people are just messed up in the head. We should be looking into preventative psychological help instead of crying about something that isn't even the cause and even if it were somehow removed entirely it wouldn't stop it.

It infuriates me how simple minded these people are. Really? You sat down and thought about the issue and that is what you came up with as the cause and fix? How the hell did you get where you are, how do you deserve it? Because from my perspective you shouldn't be in your position. People have went on killing sprees throughout all of human history. Guns and games have existed for a very tiny fraction of that time.

valium:
In related news; US Senator turns out to be a complete moron.

shocking no one.

Would it surprise you to learn that our politicians actually have a career wide quota for stupid things said while in office?

It's larger for the House than it is for the senate, and it's really big for presidential candidates, hence why there's so many gaffes on the trail.

Why was I born in this state? >_<

Every attempt at banning the real ones failed, so no Feinstein is going after the fake ones!

Didn't we just have a California video game censorship bill shot down by THE. SUPREME. COURT?

WaitWHAT:
snip

Ukomba:
She's right of course. And thanks to Amateur Surgeon I'm now opening my own clinic, Mortal Combat has made me a Black Belt, and Dead Space has made me a Master Engineer.

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