The Last Of Us Faces Another Rip-Off Accusation - UPDATED

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He's going to send a letter? I live in Britain and we get right on those if were royally pissed off. Not happy with the service you got a at restaurant? Don't complain there and then that would be rude and you'd be considered to be making a scene. What you do is force that smile go home and write a furious letter to the manager. Hopefully you'll get some free vouchers as compensation.

Edited:
apparently it's resolved.
http://transitmaps.tumblr.com/post/53696766419/boston-theft

UPDATE, TUESDAY JUNE 25, 1:00pm: I've just spoken with Naughty Dog over the phone in a very constructive conversation. Can't say more at the moment, but it seems as if matters will be resolved to everyone's satisfaction shortly. I can say that they do acknowledge their error in using my map and were very apologetic for it. I likewise apologised for my initial vitriolic post. A lot of mutual respect for each other's creative work.

It's been a hell of a last couple of days: thanks for the support from many, and the interesting and varied comments from most.

Hopefully, back to regularly scheduled Transit Maps content soon!

Everyone is in the mood to sue sue sue. Good god its like we cant just let people make money for being creative.

May have been a temp asset that wasn't changed before release. Sad oversight but no malicious intent.

I hope this doesn't have to go to court.

EDIT:

Yay, this won't go to court!

If it really is his map, and at first glance it does look like his. In the lower left hand of his version is his copyright mark with his web address. Is it possible to check the image in game to see if it has the same copyright mark.

I'm not too surprised by this guys response. Map makers tend to be a bit on the venomous side.

Naughty Dog is safe even if they violated copy right. I'd refer to the Oracle vs Google case in regards to the violation of copyrighted code. As a percentage of the whole work that copyrighted map accounts for a very small fraction of the game.

Wow. Of all the things this game could have been accused of ripping off, a subway map is not what I expected.

I would just like to point out that -regardless of ND's ethics in this- if he can claim that this is an original work by stretching


out into

then he can hardly complain when ND further improved upon the design by

If his work is derivative of the original map, so is Naughty Dog's derivative of his alteration.

It's interesting to see people's reactions to this. If EA had done the same thing everyone would be saying "OMG EA ARE TEH EVILS, BURN THEIR STUFF", but as it's Naughty Dog, most people are auto-exonerating the dev and...blaming the artist for having the temerity for complaining that his art got stolen?

So many people are posting half-baked ad-hominem attacks on the guy. Because if a company makes a good game it therefore cannot be guilty of plagiarism, right? Which means that the accuser must therefore be a liar, right? This smacks of hypocrisy a little.

At least it's good to see the whole thing has been resolved well. :)

Scars Unseen:
I would just like to point out that -regardless of ND's ethics in this- if he can claim that this is an original work by stretching


out into

then he can hardly complain when ND further improved upon the design by

If his work is derivative of the original map, so is Naughty Dog's derivative of his alteration.

It's quite funny you put that up really, because his map has actually got a number of significant differences from the original. It's much cleaner, easier to read and has several lines shifted to more sensible places. ND's version is a direct copy-paste of the improved version.

Bix96:
As much as I would love to back somebody using the same tactics that big businesses use to screw over your average joe this guy comes off as a massive dick just trying to money grub it reminds me of that guy that tried to sue Rockstar Games cause he looked kinda like CJ from San Andreas

If I remember the case he made was not based entirely on how he looked, but also on other similarities to the character and some of the details in the back story, combined with him having allegedly met and talked to people from Rockstar. I might be thinking of the wrong thing, but I vaguely remember this, and I think that the gist of it was him claiming that Rockstar wound up making money by loosely basing the game off of his life story (very loosely).

A similar case would be the whole "Space Channel 5" controversy where Lady Miss Kier (from Dee-lite, I think I have her stage name right) was used as the basis for Ulala, something they were up front about in trying to get her on the project, but when they couldn't come to an agreement they did it anyway and just cut her out entirely. In this case though the feud revolves less around the specifics of the likeness as much as the imitation of someone's stage persona and routine... which can be a big deal, while she wasn't successful, it was very similar to the more successful case where Gallager (the dude who smashes fruit with a hammer) sued his brother for stealing his show/material and
performing it for money without permission.

At any rate, the thing about maps of well traveled areas is that they tend to be very generic, most money made off of them largely comes from the distribution rather than the imagery itself, and it's possible to get free maps and such if you know where to look, in part because the information is pretty much public domain. At the end of the day you can't copyright an image of Boston's streets or whatever. On a lot of levels this particular complaint does seem like a
greedy opportunist.

When it comes to Ellen Page, I think she's being an idiot. As I mentioned in another post we recently got official confirmation that a young Alyssa Milano (Charmed, Who's The Boss, etc...) was used as the basis for the character "Ariel" in "The Little Mermaid", something she (and others) suspected, but never knew for sure. When it was confirmed it was pretty much "cool, no big deal, I'm really flattered to learn this" at least in the articles I read. In comparison Ellen seems to be being a twit with a lot less to go on.

Not to mention that if you start saying artists can't base their work on real people or models without paying royalties, that's a big problem, since that's a big part of what artists do, especially when it comes to public people like celebrities and politicians. I don't think this kind of thing negatively impacts anyone's career as there is a substantial difference between an image based on an image or observation, and actually having someone there to model for you directly, or actually act/mocap on your behalf. If Ellen Page had a very distinctive persona or routine that was being duplicated, well that would be different, but this isn't a case like this... unlike say stealing someone's show routine/comedy material/etc... and using it yourself. Of course even in those cases legally speaking there hasn't been much of a leg to stand on when it comes to video game (Lady Miss Kier did not win her case, though I personally think she should have for the same reason Gallager was apparently successful).

Scars Unseen:
I would just like to point out that -regardless of ND's ethics in this- if he can claim that this is an original work by stretching


out into

then he can hardly complain when ND further improved upon the design by

If his work is derivative of the original map, so is Naughty Dog's derivative of his alteration.

You know what's funny? That as "derivative" as the work might seem, your post just made me realize that they DID rip-off the guys's map. It's very different to redesign the whole map(if your pictures are the actual ones, he did a lot of changes) than to add some filters into it to make it rusty/old.

What a stupid dickhead. He designed his "map" from an already existing source, it's not like he created the first mapping of the Boston Transit System. He even used the official naming on his own work. By his own accusation, he should be sued first.

So sick of this stupid crap. This petty nonsense actually inhibits growth of intellectual property, it doesn't protect it. It's along the same ground as patenting technologies you intend to never use or create, only to enforce lawsuits for those who try to actually create it in the future.

I hope he is counter-sued and loses a lot of money, if he does try to make a lawsuit out of it.

erbkaiser:
Edited:
apparently it's resolved.
http://transitmaps.tumblr.com/post/53696766419/boston-theft

UPDATE, TUESDAY JUNE 25, 1:00pm: I've just spoken with Naughty Dog over the phone in a very constructive conversation. Can't say more at the moment, but it seems as if matters will be resolved to everyone's satisfaction shortly. I can say that they do acknowledge their error in using my map and were very apologetic for it. I likewise apologised for my initial vitriolic post. A lot of mutual respect for each other's creative work.

It's been a hell of a last couple of days: thanks for the support from many, and the interesting and varied comments from most.

Hopefully, back to regularly scheduled Transit Maps content soon!

I'm sorry, I'd hardly consider the opportunity to get financial compensation from a AAA video game developer/publisher to be "hell".

Are all artists or graphic designers such pretentious or dramatic knobends? Would he have turned up to court with his neck in a brace?

Abomination:

erbkaiser:
Edited:
apparently it's resolved.
http://transitmaps.tumblr.com/post/53696766419/boston-theft

UPDATE, TUESDAY JUNE 25, 1:00pm: I've just spoken with Naughty Dog over the phone in a very constructive conversation. Can't say more at the moment, but it seems as if matters will be resolved to everyone's satisfaction shortly. I can say that they do acknowledge their error in using my map and were very apologetic for it. I likewise apologised for my initial vitriolic post. A lot of mutual respect for each other's creative work.

It's been a hell of a last couple of days: thanks for the support from many, and the interesting and varied comments from most.

Hopefully, back to regularly scheduled Transit Maps content soon!

I'm sorry, I'd hardly consider the opportunity to get financial compensation from a AAA video game developer/publisher to be "hell".

Are all artists or graphic designers such pretentious or dramatic knobends? Would he have turned up to court with his neck in a brace?

I'm an artist and graphic designer.

Yes we are, believe me. It took myself a lot of time to break my ego to the point that I don't really care unless someone blatantly steals something. Some are REALLY anal about stuff though. But you gotta be careful today with the internet and such because it's REALLY easy to get your stuff stolen without you even knowing. And not just by little shady companies in the middle of nowhere, but sometimes big companies too who'll just roam around and take whatever they see fit for an advertisement or whatnot. Although most of the time it's just laziness to check for the source than actual will to steal. It's still pretty nasty though

The guy does blow it out of proportion though. Shouldn't be worthy of a headline. Probably one of the workers at naughty dog took the map thinking it was just public domain (I would've too, tbh...didn't know subway maps had a copyright, rather they belonged to a public service company), put it in the game, nobody really questionned it and boom, there you go. But glad everything is resolved

Honestly, the entire game screams 'CashCow'

so frankly the fact they're too cheap to pay someone 5 to draw a metro lines poster art is no surprise to me.

Say, remember when Glee used Jonathan Coulton's cover of Baby Got Back without permission?

Scars Unseen:
I would just like to point out that -regardless of ND's ethics in this- if he can claim that this is an original work by stretching


out into

then he can hardly complain when ND further improved upon the design by

If his work is derivative of the original map, so is Naughty Dog's derivative of his alteration.

Wow, I am surprised you think putting something behind a filter is the same as all of the real work he did changing the map.

BarelyAudible:
Say, remember when Glee used Jonathan Coulton's cover of Baby Got Back without permission?

I would say there's a significant difference from finding an imagine on the internet that could be esaily confused with being official and incorporating an identical cover of a song.

So the fucking ND couldn't draw their own map? The hell is happening here?

captcha: red-handed
(ok man, how is this happening?)

Busard:

Abomination:

erbkaiser:
Edited:
apparently it's resolved.
http://transitmaps.tumblr.com/post/53696766419/boston-theft

I'm sorry, I'd hardly consider the opportunity to get financial compensation from a AAA video game developer/publisher to be "hell".

Are all artists or graphic designers such pretentious or dramatic knobends? Would he have turned up to court with his neck in a brace?

I'm an artist and graphic designer.

Yes we are, believe me. It took myself a lot of time to break my ego to the point that I don't really care unless someone blatantly steals something. Some are REALLY anal about stuff though. But you gotta be careful today with the internet and such because it's REALLY easy to get your stuff stolen without you even knowing. And not just by little shady companies in the middle of nowhere, but sometimes big companies too who'll just roam around and take whatever they see fit for an advertisement or whatnot. Although most of the time it's just laziness to check for the source than actual will to steal. It's still pretty nasty though

The guy does blow it out of proportion though. Shouldn't be worthy of a headline. Probably one of the workers at naughty dog took the map thinking it was just public domain (I would've too, tbh...didn't know subway maps had a copyright, rather they belonged to a public service company), put it in the game, nobody really questionned it and boom, there you go. But glad everything is resolved

I certainly agree he has a case here and I also agree that it was more than likely a completely innocent mistake on Naughty Dog's part.

But at the same time he's been handling this in a most hysterial fashion and coming off as a right twat.

Makabriel:

Because gods forbid ND try to make it look like you're really in Boston?

Please don't strawman me. If you don't like my argument, either formulate an actual reasonable defense or just let it go as irrational.

I hope they didn't use actual landmarks in the game, or they're in for a really bad time at the rate things are going.

I'm going to assume you know better here. That you're aware of the difference between infringing on a trademark of the MBTA (using someone's intellectual property) and modeling something after a public landmark.

If you really do need help with this and aren't trying to falsely equate an obviously more ridiculous case to this one, please reply and perhaps I can help get you sorted on that front.

People can't help but hate on success sometimes..

Which isn't really relevant, since nobody's really "hating" on this game being successful.

I hope you're this ardent a defender of Vanilla Ice, man.

I will never understand why people will rush to defend a large company that can utilize a multi-million dollar budget against a small independent artist. They used his work without permission. They were in the wrong. Period.

Thankfully it seems to have been resolved amicably enough.

Abomination:
I would say there's a significant difference from finding an imagine on the internet that could be esaily confused with being official and incorporating an identical cover of a song.

There is, but you're sort of asking people to let reason get in the way of a good rant.

That being said, there was a LEGITIMATE question in the Glee cover, in that Coulton suggested that some of the musical elements may have been taken exactly from his version of the song. If that's true, there's certainly an analogue here. However, that's not what most people hopped onboard and argued. they instead argued an obligation to give credit or possibly royalties, and even a "derivative works" protection would be hard pressed there. I bring this last part up because a lot of people tried to argue the letter of the law with Coulton, even though in practice it never works that way. Or almost never.

There are notable differences between the two instances, though.

bluepotatosack:
I will never understand why people will rush to defend a large company that can utilize a multi-million dollar budget against a small independent artist. They used his work without permission. They were in the wrong. Period.

Thankfully it seems to have been resolved amicably enough.

Only half-related, but I will similarly never understand why an industry (industries, really) so obsessed with piracy and "theft" will so readily "steal" from others without a single thought.

bluepotatosack:
I will never understand why people will rush to defend a large company that can utilize a multi-million dollar budget against a small independent artist. They used his work without permission. They were in the wrong. Period.

Thankfully it seems to have been resolved amicably enough.

Yes they were wrong but it's pretty obvious it was an innocent mistake. Very few people are saying the artist should get squat, I believe they should receive some financial compensation - what they would charge for someone else to use their work in the production of a for-profit product. Guy suddenly gets maybe $500 he wasn't expecting and everyone walks away satisfied.

BarelyAudible:
Say, remember when Glee used Jonathan Coulton's cover of Baby Got Back without permission?

Coulton was cool about it, and as a result people sided with him and he gained a loyal following of supporters. That's how you do it. Acting like a dick never pays out in the long run.

The game is so good I'll blindly defend ND no matter what...so what was the problem again?

Zachary Amaranth:

ravenshrike:
It was the same map as the official MBTA map with two small changes made. Same colors, same font, etc... As it still had all the official MBTA trademarks on it, as well as their web address, he cannot remotely claim copyright.

I won't comment on this guy suing or whatever, but if it's virtually identical to the actual official map down to MBTA trademarks, Naughty Dog are REALLY bloody stupid.

Agreed, as much as I love Naughty Dog, they screwed the pooch on this one. They should just pay the man what would normally be required to use the image and apologize. It'd be good PR, and everyone wins.

EDIT:Sounds like it's been resolved, everybody wins. People make mistakes, but if they own up to them and sort shit out, then it's okay.

Odgical:
Hm... I think I'd only get annoyed about this if it was my map and Naughty Dog was rude to or about me. To be fucking furious seems an over reaction.

And did he make his map dirty, grubby and on a 3D model? No sir. Too many changes, I say!

Also, if you make a painting of, say, a company logo and sell it, are you infringing on copyright?

I am currently making a COMPLETELY ORIGINAL, DO NOT STEAL map of the Boston Transit area.

the major change, there is a picture of a Pony on the side of it.

Now, Mr. IP troll, you now owe me money for copying MY work, I will accept no less than $113367832316574684 in Rubles to be paid in cash, or if that is not possible, no less than exactly 5 3/24 of Ponies in the pink or lightish red coloration.

But yea, you cant claim IP over something that you yourself copied, if so, then my demands must be met by no later than February 31st, 2013.

Abomination:

erbkaiser:
Edited:
apparently it's resolved.
http://transitmaps.tumblr.com/post/53696766419/boston-theft

UPDATE, TUESDAY JUNE 25, 1:00pm: I've just spoken with Naughty Dog over the phone in a very constructive conversation. Can't say more at the moment, but it seems as if matters will be resolved to everyone's satisfaction shortly. I can say that they do acknowledge their error in using my map and were very apologetic for it. I likewise apologised for my initial vitriolic post. A lot of mutual respect for each other's creative work.

It's been a hell of a last couple of days: thanks for the support from many, and the interesting and varied comments from most.

Hopefully, back to regularly scheduled Transit Maps content soon!

I'm sorry, I'd hardly consider the opportunity to get financial compensation from a AAA video game developer/publisher to be "hell".

Are all artists or graphic designers such pretentious or dramatic knobends? Would he have turned up to court with his neck in a brace?

well, to generalize, from the 10 or so graphic designer/artists (legitimate, as in selling work for 10,000+ dollars type stuff) i know personally, then yes, you can fucking FEEL their ego when they walk into the room, so yeah, alot of them can be quite pretentious.

this kind of reminds me of that little fiasco a while back where that old woman did "a few touch-ups" on that church's painting and all of a sudden a lot of people come to see the ugly thing and then the family demands compensation for it.

I'm not sure why people don't get this. If he made it, not only does he have the right but he deserves to be paid for it. You could give Naughty Dog the benefit of the doubt; maybe they did think it was a freebee - doesn't change the fact they owe him something, and should be up front about it.

There are plenty of misuses of copyright law, but this isn't one of them. Artists - freelance, contracted, amateur, whatever - should have the right to be paid for their work, especially if someone is profiting from it. It doesn't matter if it's not an integral part of the final piece: if it was so easy to make, perhaps they should've mocked one up themselves.

PS: I agree, the guy does seem to be making a song and dance about it, but I don't accept people's assertions that this is nothing more than someone trying to undeservedly jump on the back of a AAA game.

Too bad this Booth fellow fails to mention that his modified transit map heavily rips off the design style of the maps issued by the London Underground.

KeyMaster45:
Too bad this Booth fellow fails to mention that his modified transit map heavily rips off the design style of the maps issued by the London Underground.

Nevertheless, it was he who put those motifs to work on a Boston Underground map. I'm pretty certain he'll have constructed that image from the ground up, even though you're right - it reminds me of London's too.

After comparing the official map to Mr. Booth's, it's clear his map is original work. According to his twitter, he is in contact with Sony/Naughty Dog and they are working things out and have admitted error.

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